Trigger Warning: Violence against Women
Last Night in Santa Barbara California, a Gunman in a BMW opened fire on students near the UC Santa Barbara campus in Isla Vista. Seven are dead including the gunman, with a further seven injured.
The Gunman's Name is Elliot Rodger. Last night, he posted a chilling manifesto to youtube. Announcing that he is a 22 year old Virgin who has never been kissed he says:
"It's not fair. You girls have never been attracted to me. I don't know why you girls have never been attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it. It's an injustice, a crime, because I don't know what you don't see in me. I'm the perfect guy, and yet you throw yourselves at all these obnoxious men, instead of me, the supreme gentleman."The true Alpha Male. What those who call themselves the Mens Rights Movement aspire to be."I will punish all of you for it," he says again, and then he laughs.
"On the day of retribution I will enter the hottest sorority house of UCSB, and I will slaughter every single spoiled stuck up blonde slut I see inside there. All those girls that I've desired so much, they would have all rejected me and looked down upon me as an inferior man if I ever made a sexual advance towards them. While they throw themselves at these obnoxious brutes. I'll take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you. You will finally see that I am in truth the superior one. The true Alpha Male."
The Men's Rights Movement as they call themselves is a nebulous group of pickup artists and misogynists who've found each other on line, and are attempting to create a movement based around their hatred, disdain, and fear of women.
We know for a fact that Rodgers was influenced by this movement, as he is subscribed to multiple "pick up artist" or "mens rights" channels on YouTube. (For those here that don't use YouTube, when a user subscribes to a channel, they receive notifications when that channel posts a new video.)
They include:
"The Player Supreme Show" which rails against the feminization of men and talks about how to pick up women.
"RSDfreetour" which is a series of self-help seminars run by RSD Nation, a "pick up artist" site.
There's also a user called McHenry Cruiser who in addition to being a pickup artist is a comedian who has some kind of beef with Louis CK, and another called "Squatting Cassanova," who seems to be your average PUA.
I'm still digging through some of the folks he's subscribed to.
He is what the Men's Rights movement calls an "Incel" which is short for involuntary celibacy. It's a hot topic in various parts of the manosphere.
Rather than seeking mental help for some obvious issues, he sought out the Men's Rights Movement. He watched their propaganda. He internalized their hatred of women. (There's no shortage of anti-woman rhetoric and nonsense. For some of the worst of it, check out The Red Pill's "Pussy Pass" forum, where they take isolated incidents, remove them from any rational context, and blow them way out of proportion.)
He listened to these guys talk about being hard, and tough, and true alpha men. He did what they told them, and began lifting weights. We know he had an account on body building forum which was recently deleted by their moderation team.
So this kid who needed some serious mental help sought out the destructive, BS views coming from the men's rights movement. He felt entitled to sex with women. He blamed women for not providing him with sex. He exposed himself to hateful rhetoric about women.
And then he acted on that hatred, and targeted college girls for a drive-by shooting, killed six, wounded seven, and then shot himself.
I don't think we should be at all surprised that when hateful rhetoric is trained on any group, lone wolves like this guy get triggered.
I've seen only a couple of news articles online that discuss the fact that the vast majority (though not all) of this country's mass shootings are perpetrated by men, and has a lot to do with their socialized masculinity.
Unfortunately, the ways in which conventional male socialization lead to violence, isn't a popular topic anywhere, let alone these parts.
Of the 62 mass shootings since 1982, only one was perpetrated by a woman. Also, most mass shootings target women.
You say something like this not realizing blacks account for 50% of the murders in America and would easily fall victim to whites negatively stereotyping them using the same tactics as you. I find the use of these stereotypes as a weapon against innate groups to be morally and intellectually bankrupt. It's everything we fought against through the Civil Rights movement and those that followed. One gay man's, black man's, or even white man's misdeeds don't paint the entire group as inherently dysfunctional. That sort of hate mongering is exactly what liberals are supposed to be taking a stand against.
Something like a 'mass shooting' is exactly the sort of extreme outlier behavior that should NEVER be used to stereotype vast swaths of humanity. The fact 0.0001% of a group does something horrific does not make 99.999% of them the problem.
You do not understand the concepts of stereotyping, masculinity, innateness, or gender.
And I'm a morally and intellectually bankrupt hate-monger?
The one thing every mass-murdering simpleton has in common is a pathetic addiction to self-pity.
I see nothing "manly" about his infantile self-pity.
isn't releasing this personal information.
http://www.dailykos.com/...
Cites Daily Mail
However, if you Google the guy's name at this point, it's all over the tubez. CNN one of the few that is shy about revealing it.
Its important to be careful about attaching a name to crimes until officially released. Even in this diary there are TWO different spellings. And just because it's all over 'the tubes' doesn't make it right to accept or repeat.
Here's the image from his YouTube banner. It includes his license plate. There are also shots with his license plate in his youtube videos.
I've lost the uncensored image, still looking, but I was able to match the plate numbers from the uncensored version . It's graphic, so trigger warning.
It's him.
His Facebook page and his blog indicate serious mental problems. The videos--all of the and there are many, are very disturbing. There is also a photo of him out there, I think on The Blaze with his father (Peter Rodger, associate director of Hunger Games). He mentions in one of the videos that he is Eurasian which would indicate his mother is Asian.
has a relatively new BMW. My 2 cents based upon scant reading... a privileged ass that thought they were entitled to the world (with possible psychological issues on top of it).
1. His Youtube Page has images of his car with the license tags.
2. Images have been tweeted from the scene of the car the shooter used, with tags.
It's the same car.
As for where I got that information? The information junkies have been researching this stuff all night. I grabbed it when I woke up this morning and started doing my own digging.
about this, he was a member of a PUA-Hate website that rails against the how-to-get-laid industry, and some of the commenters in that site are calling him a hero. It's from a Daily Mail link so I won't post it, but there you have it.
rape is OK and that the best thing to do is to get a woman drunk so she can't say no
http://www.rawstory.com/...
Here are a few sites discussing the movement and their position on such diverse topics as upskirting as sport, abortion rights for men, divorce rights for men and etc. etc.
http://www.rawstory.com/...
http://slog.thestranger.com/...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/...
http://www.policymic.com/...
http://o.canada.com/...
Here they are in their own words:
http://www.vancouvermra.com/
http://www.avoiceformen.com/...
and finally I am chagrined that an MRA advocate has been nominated for a Hugo:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/...
SOME stuff that traditionally falls under the heading of "Mens' Rights issues," e.g., concern about grossly unfair child-support laws and whatever, might actually have a rational basis. But it gets all bollixed-up with misogynistic ranting. It gets discredited.
Congratulations, losers. You set the clock back for everyone.
issue where men are abused by their spouses, albeit not as frequently as women. This issue is lost in the noise.
Another such issue is rape. Men can be raped and in some prisons, forcible rape is routine. However, again, it is lost in the noise as MRA advocates claim that as many as 88% of rape charges are fabricated and based on "buyer's remorse"
I have the TV running just to have some noise in the house and tuned into a show about illegal eateries on the Esquire channel. The "banter" during one segment was very much MRA oriented. As you said, all of this noise, such as, "Did he get laid or did he waste a restaurant coupon" or "this is long term relationship. It should last 72 hours before he is bored", camouflages the legitimate issues which everyone more or less can agree on
to these people. We are "girls," he says over and over. We are infantilized and depicted as helpless and unable to think for ourselves or take charge of our own sexuality. I know the use of girl is so ubiquitous that generally nice people will use the word, but there is a hugely important and meaningful distinction between girls and women. The flip side of the use of the term is of course that it sexualizes girls, which is obviously hugely unhealthy as well.
and the distinction between "girl" and "woman" is extremely evident. OTOH my late wife went to medical school when the number of females was about 7% of the class.
One of her friends was accosted by a fellow classmate who told her that she had "taken" a spot from his best friend who was now considering an offshore MD and she and the rest of the women should leave . She replied, "My GPA was superior to yours, my recommendations were superior, my MCATs were superior to yours so you are the one who took your buddy's place"
This was in The Day when, during cadaver study, some of the women would bring bag lunches so they would not have to go out. In at least one case, a prankster excised a cadaver's penis, placed in a hotdog bun and hid it in one of the women's lunch. Also, during this class, women had their cadavers sabotaged such as having the eyes punched out.
Then there was the instructor who thought female students should "volunteer" for other students to practice pelvics. He was adamant about this but thought it was silly when it was suggested male students should volunteer for prostate exams.
BTW, this instructor had the habit of referring to women students as "The Girls"
Thanks for highlighting this. I have run into plenty of these whiners in my day, often anonymously in misspelled ideological drivel these basement-dwellers and Bud-drinkers leave online.
Guys? Women turn their backs because they see right through you. Same reason you can't get any from your wife or girlfriend, and same reason your daughter won't call you on Father's Day. Same reason your sister thinks you're a pill.
Nowadays, with hate radio, at least you have a proper movement, I guess. How special.
When I was 26 I hadn't even dated anyone, was I a loser? That attitude you expressed in your comment is part of the problem. As a society we tell men they need to "get laid" to be a real man. Stop contributing to that mindset.
"If you're obsessed with getting laid and you can't get laid", then you're probably a loser.
If you're busy with other stuff or are waiting for the right person or whatever other choice, that's a different story.
If you're spending your time online ranting about evil women are because they won't sleep with you or falling for the Pickup Artist scams ...
and "can't get." These guys are trying desperately to have intimate relationships and when they are rejected, instead of looking inward for personal issues, they blame everyone else but themselves and take on the role of whiny victim.
is most likely a perpetrator of victimization. It's all about sick projection. Healthy people do not see themselves as a perpetual victim. I was raped while I was in college, but, as horrible as it was, it does not define me. The fact that I was a victim of something does not determine my identity.
what they're seeking.
At this early stage of knowing about this, I'd say the guys are looking more for 'Sex as proof of Power' rather than looking for 'initmacy'. I'm kind of guessing that these guys don't know what 'intimacy' is.
who grew into a major right wing prick as an adult. His views on women were so stunted that it was like a classroom experiment just to listen to him.
He viewed women who attracted him as being manipulating. They "manipulated" him into wanting to fuck them. He even saw young girls as potential "manipulators".
He was predatory, married with kids but always on the make. The young man I knew was intelligent, handsome, and fun to be with. The adult version stunned me.
I was more than glad to be rid of him.
...than rape being about "getting laid." The second any horny female college student found herself in a private moment with this damaged man his self-loathing and externalized hatred (...for himself, his mother, all women, the world) would surface, she'd feel microtensions that would build and merge and clarify and confirm and she'd flea. Young women meet men EVERY SINGLE DAY that would do harm to them and the smarter they are the more sensitive they become at detecting sick minds. This guy has "stay away" written all over his clenched teeth and the horniest most half-witted females would know to get away and go find a "beta male" not messed up in his head.
There men and women who have issues with the opposite sex. We should not take those people and use them as negative stereotypes for a given sex or evidence of some character flaw common to them. That sort of shallow bigotry has long been a problem for countless groups in our society.
There are women who have a deep seated hatred of men who can be quite vocal about it. There are also men who do the same. Neither of these types are the norm but their divisive ranting has had some impact on all of us over the eons with each seeking a scapegoat in the other. At times people even internalize these negative views of their sex which leaves them reinforcing biases that can almost be self fulfilling prophecy. You men are violent so we will train you to fight. You men are strong so we will use you for heavy labor. You men are less emotional so we will not care for your feelings. The same sorts of stereotypes have pigeonholed women in roles they didn't want.
At some point we must remember we are human beings flaws with goodness and badness being individual traits not those of innate groups. The damaged man and women are two sides of the same coin. One is not justified and the other delusional. In all likelihood both are delusional with some past trauma making them jaded beyond reason. Helping them heal starts with not tolerating the use of negative gender stereotyping as a way of engaging the opposite sex.
There is some disgusting immaturity on display right here. This middle school mentality of bullying and abusing men/boys who don't 'get any', or 'desire any' is completely uncalled for. This should be rejected by a community of people who wouldn't tolerate the abuse of asexuals or those who simply haven't found romantic companionship in either sex.
Men are in fact human beings just like women and deserve just as much love and respect. This should go without saying and it's sad that men in particular struggle with seeing themselves as people worthy of compassion. We can call this patriarchy hurting men and the kind of bullying you do is exactly the sort of gender role policing we should be taking a stand against.
Other commenters have responded with my reasons so I will just leave it at that. This young man's actions are unarguably horrendous but the loneliness and frustration that incited them are heart-wrenchingly sad.
rest of his videos in youtube and this guy is a sad sad case. Social structure and geography in this country favor isolation and loneliness. Add to that easiness to get guns and the preponderance of aggressive views against common good, helping others, thinking about what the other people may think or feel and you have unparalleled number of mass attacks compared to any other society
niece lives. She had been out and walked home just 10 minutes prior to the mayhem.
I am sick, sick, sick that in quick succession we have armed idiots entering restaurants basically brandishing guns, in an attempt to "normalize" such behavior, and now a machismo driven mass shooting! It's like I told my niece before i read this diary and learned of the shooter's motives, this was the ultimate macho fantasy action movie/video game: A
guy with a black beamer, a semi automatic weapon, and a grudge!
is a term that is used in many different contexts.
it is not a term that is owned by any "men's movement"
just like a person that uses the term "breeder" isn't necessarily a product of the gay rights movement
what you are describing is a young man with a horrible self-esteem issue who wanted to desperately "learn" how to be more attractive to the opposite sex.
much like a young woman might become anorexic.
was by no mean Alpha male, just a sad lonely dude with social problems and misguided understanding why he was lonely and had trouble with girls.
directed rage that is just harder to see if they're driven by some sort of other ideology. This guy, on the other hand, obviously hated himself and then just blew up. People have problems finding sexual partners, or lovers. But the truth is, people with all sorts of "undesirable" mental and physical traits find lovers and partners all the time --- and we're not just talking about men here.
The 'loser who can't get laid' fits a certain kind of American pop culture, but take a look out your window at the people in the real world and plenty of "losers" are getting laid all the time. This guy was self-hating to the point of madness, unfortunately to those around him.
He says that all of the women that rejected him really wanted him. Women who are anorexic are hurting themselves; they aren't fucking murdering people. It's pretty disturbing that you can't see a distinction between an anorexic and a mass-killer.
lowest self-esteem you could possibly imagine. Outwardly saying 'look how great I am' is a poor mask for hideously low self-worth and utter self loathing. Jesus--if THIS is what we're calling high self esteem, then let's quickly put the lid on the idea that esteem and confidence are good things.
low self-regard, extreme pain, loneliness and despondency
manifest differently in different people.
the similarities of someone seeking a solution to their self-perceived lack of beauty is what I was talking about.
your term "men's rights movement" is completely wrong, there is nothing regarding "men's rights" for ANY of those websites you mention.
What, exactly, is your definition of "men's rights"?
themselves the "Men's Rights Movement."
It's a group of pickup artists and misogynists. You can find them at reddit.com/r/theredpill.
There are other places on line as well.
They do not in general address serious issues that affect men, such as inequality in public housing or homeless shelters, male disposability, inequality in divorce settlements and family courts, or any of the myriad issues which do in fact affect men negatively.
Instead, they talk about how most rape cases are a form of "Buyers Remorse" and claim that women are being trained to hate and victimize men.
I hope that answers your questions IR2 the MRA and the Manosphere.
sexism. Maybe this guy was a member of theirs--but don't draw in these other tangential things that are simply trying to help guys understand themselves.
the men's rights movement.
at all.
they have a tab with a listing of posts that are related to "men's rights"
on a single webpage.
as a minor subset of the thousands of discussions.
There is no real men's rights specific link in the entire diary. In fact there is one that is a feminism critique of the perception of the "manosphere" online.
this is simple compartmentalization. It is false attribution.
There is a "men's rights movement" it has to do with men embracing their emotional and peaceful powers, not being gender stereotyped and restricted to disciplinarians and machismo social cultural acceptance.
none of the links in this diary have ANYTHING to do with that movement.
I guess some do call themselves "men's rights"
however this is just a cover for anti-feminism. . .hmmm really 1984 of them. . .
Activists, and they're part of a huge group of reactionary anti-feminist jerks.
I've never seen that movement, or heard anything from them. And that's sad. Because as far as my generation is concerned (under 30) that movement is invisible, and has been completely overtaken by radical, reactionary, anti-feminist types.Sorry.
Wish it weren't true, but that's where we are right now.
I've seen plenty of blogs and articles from people saying they were part of the Men's Rights Movement, and they were all exactly as OllieGarkey described.
Do you have links to what you describe as the real ones?
are his YouTube videos still posted???
Wtf. And just check the comments, if you can stomach it. The videos were ignored by the NSA so this would happen so Obama can take away all the guns. Then we have the ever-popular dating sites claiming this would never have happened if only the guy had joined their service.
At this point in our "civilization", I'm honestly surprised we don't have more of this. We love our guns above all else, think women are no better than garbage, racism is rampant, and one of the two political parties in this country actively encourages all of this.
Christ. Somebody get me out of this asylum.
are promoting the most sexist image of men. They think being lizard people (instinct driven, hormone controlled) is alpha. They emulate a reality in which men have 2 modes: do I fuck it or kill it? What a tragic group!
monitoring everything we do if they allow this crap to happen?
We really need to shut down the NSA if they can't catch this narcissistic ass hat before he kills people.
They collect everything, but the don't listen to it all in real time. Which you could have figured out by the fact that there are 6 billion people, 5% of whom live in the US, and the NSA staff is in the thousands.
And Union strikers.
and the order that supports them. In almost no imaginable way is this guy, his actions, or his philosophy any direct threat to the people in power. (Maybe, if his sexual preferences had leaned towards older rich powerful women, instead of young ones with nothing much in the way of money and power they'd have been all over him.)
That's besides the point. The point is, if it isn't a threat to the established order, I doubt the spooks much care.
video. That's really terrifying.
This dude was 'influenced' more by being a freaking lunatic.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and a loon a loon.
I'm hunkering down for Round 2, or 2000, of the stochastic-terrorism arguments.
. I don't think MRAs want random people to gun down women.
They just want women to be submissive and do everything men say. They need to be alive for what the MRAs want.
But whether they want it or not is irrelevant to the fact that their ideas are poisonous.
this.
You're conflating a lot of things here. You're conflating male surpremacy, entitlement, misogyny, hate and narcissm with some legitimate self-help inititatives to help men who have involuntarily desexualized themselves through various childhood and emotional problems. The incel thing is basically a term to try to improve psychological recognition of a pretty serious and generally unrecognized problem. It's not a bad thing. It's essentially mens' answer to what women can find in pretty much 10,000 magazines around the country.
The men's rights movement and other misogynistic movement is on the opposite end of the spectrum.
I've run into self-identified Incels on line who think that women owe them sex and they're mad that they're not getting what they're owed. If I'm wrong, I'd like to know, so if there's some legitimate psychological work surrounding "incels," and I'm wrong here and am maligning a group of people, I'll remove that section.
set. And the misogynistic women hating jerk set. But any group of people with psychological problems is going to run the gamut of decent folks and jerks, of course.
The sentiment which you're describing is a real one and it goes like this:
'I'm nice why won't the world sleep with me!!!'
That sentiment is a major problem that a lot of guys DO have and either aren't aware of, or don't want to, over come. This guy (and Stephen Cho) are extreme examples of this type.
However,the self development trajectory should go like this:
'Why am I not able to interact with other people as I would like to'
Here's a link--just found it on a google search but seem to be reflective.
Here
isn't any legitimate psychological work going on in that area). so guys who struggle with relationships are often 'seduced' (so to speak) into more unsavoury outlets.
You are not quite correct. There is some research but its publicity is being stifled by a group of sociopathic people who want to deny that this situation of inability to have a girlfriend/sex even exists, which is as silly as to say that thirst or homelessness don't.
There is more at work than you understand here. Some people are interested in any legitimate scientific research on this being pushed aside.
Wikipedia article on Involuntary celibacy was deleted under very dubious circumstances by a person who clearly admitted to have an agenda.
This is why incel men turn to less mainstream sites - because the mainstream wants to silence them.
you provide some links (or least explain the reasoning) behind this?
there's a battle over it. Whether or not the theory passes scientific muster, or maybe doesn't have great credentials behind it, there's defintely merit to recognizing that some people are simply stuck for reasons that arent' really covered well in psych circles. Men and women.
The article as of now is still up there, though.
Here
That's the ticket.
Right next door to the naaWp. Come on down this weekend for the straight pride parade as we nobly endeavor to stamp out heterocaucasiamasculaphobia.
So oppressive to be an oppressor.
Really. I had no clue that such organized, directed hate existed.
I'm just stunned by this: a killing-rampage based on hatred of women. Mind-boggling.
Hello. I have two questions
1. Does this community support free speech?
2. I can see my blog was linked to from here but can't find where. Could you point me to the context?
What's your blog? I might be able to find the link in question.
We're community moderated, and this site isn't for everyone. Fringe opinions like Conspiracy Theories tend to get moderated out. Trolls and people who act like jerks tend to get banned, even if they agree with us.
There should be a greeting committee that will introduce you to site features shortly, as we have a mentoring team for new members.
Welcome again.
My blog is http://thatincelblogger.wordpress.com/
I run a very controversial blog and have many opinions left wing types will disagree with vehemently but I am not into any conspiracy theories and I am looking for civilized discussion and am not a jerk/troll.
Also, I don't support this young man's actions.
You're one of the folks I linked to. Your blog is hyperlinked under the words "Various Parts."
If you have a perspective on what I've written here, I'd love to hear it. We work hard on keeping our discussions as civilized as possible, but tempers do flare from time to time.And I do not think that you support this young man's actions. I just linked to you because you write about Incel stuff. There's another conversation here where people are talking about Incel. A kossack has claimed that I'm conflating Incel with The Red Pill, and that I shouldn't do that.
Since you're here, I'll ask you point blank: What's the scholarship on incel stuff? Because if I'm wrong here and I'm maligning a group of people, I need to know.
It will turn out that he himself was a spoiled brat and thought being rich entitled him to a relationship, ie sex, with women. When, if he hadn't been so sheltered, he might of developed the character to have an actual intimate relationship with a woman. Affluenza strikes again.
I live near IV and I know this type very well. It is snobby and very cliquish and probably the worst kind of place for a guy like this to be.
director for the Hunger Games. Wealthy family. There's video of him on the red carpet with his parents.
Some posts he made posts on a site called PUAHate.
Thread is archived here: http://archive.today/...Thanks. They scrubbed this from their site pretty damned quick. They actually took the site down this morning.
than go without sex any longer. No hope for the future, no hope that he might meet someone who would love him (or at least have sex with him). No thought that he might be looking in the wrong places for companionship. And he had to take some women with him--not, as I understand it, specific women who rejected him, but just some women who represented what he desired, felt rejected by and hated.
Sick and sad.
It is sad.
That being said, this guy is hardly an incel poster boy. Good looking, rich, he could have had female attention most of us only dream of. But he chose to live in one of the most superficial narcissistic locales on the planet, perhaps second only to Sydney. And he reeked of degeneration and narcissism himself. That would hardly be a turn off to a lot of the Hollywood/model types he was undoubtedly pursuing, but if as some suggested he was Aspie or awkward about it then it might.
I don't understand this kid at all. He could have flown anywhere in the world with the money he had, there were places where he could have found a good non-feminist wife. I have no idea why he didn't try that.
is up with his "supporters" calling him both a hero and a god. Won't post the link but it's using his name and calling him a public figure.
I want to take a look, because this sounds like trolls.
I hope it's trolls.
The preponderance of comments following the video called him "beta" or "gay". I strained to see how it was even relevant. But apparently there is a culture that takes it as their purpose in life to prey on one another in a sick and insecure game, built on a false self-image of "alphaness". In what world does that not establish oneself decisively as an sociopathic bigot?
ment". Gahhh!
because there are some very few instances where I feel that seem traditionally biased against men (e.g., divorces and related custody decisions), but that almost everything else they whine about is entitled, biased and misogynistic bull.
So, this "movement" to claim superiority over another gender obscures a few, potentially legitimate points of debate due to being swallowed up into the mountain of nonsense the larger men's "movement" is built upon, IMHO.
but not everyone who has shitty attitudes about women goes out and shoots a bunch of people. That is a whole different level of angry and crazy.
link