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The Dogecoin Downhill Trail is a mistake and will cause a lot of disappointment and bad publicity. We have been participating in vote manipulation for a 2-mile trail in a ski resort. Today is the last day of voting - make up for it and cast your vote elsewhere! (self.dogecoin)

submitted by animeturtlesrefers you to the business guide

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[–]Tennysonn 0 ポイント1 ポイント

/sigh. Well I am disappointed and defeated in this. We were david and richmond was goliath. and by "we" I mean "me." I thought my reachout to the doge community was fun, innovative and showed initiative. I sold one WNYMBA member (TJ) on it and he regretted it once the negative comments from Richmond started coming in. To TJ and WNYMBA, the mountainbike community was far more valuable than $33,000. To me - a rider who benefits from all of WNYMBA's hard work - I just wanted to see them have success. This blew itself out of proportion and I stopped posting about it once the IMBA lawyers got involved, claiming that we "offered dogecoin to people in exchange for votes." which we did not do. I refrained from making any posts about this in order to keep WNYMBA's reputation from being sullied. But to see this post made...in it's sinister and rhetorical fashion makes me fucking sick. Let me state this in the most concise terms. I DO NOT AFFILIATE MYSELF OR MY COMMENTS WITH WNYMBA WHATSOEVER. So following that, let me say this. The people of Richmond have disgusted me. Their backlash against MY idea has been despicable. They have made derogate posts towards WNYMBA and dogecoin, they have "liked" the WNYMBA facebook page in order to make negative comments. I am planning to make a blog post to clear the air on TJ and WNYMBA once this debacle is over. They deserve no scorn. Bring it on me. Bring on the downvotes. Richmond has clearly shown their entitled attitude towards this grant - and take it. Before I decided to try and involve dogecoin in a mutually beneficial agreement you guys had this contest won. And not a single on of you would be posting to this community now had I not done it first. You're lucky that WNYMBA is more concerned about the spirit of the mountain bike community, because if it were up to me - I would fight tooth and nail in defense of the shibe votes - If you are handing out flyers in your community to people who aren't bike enthusiasts, they say "well I don't bike, but this is good for my community." That's all this was. I created value to the trail beyond biking, and shibes thought "this is good for our community." I promised myself I wouldn't post until we spoke to the lawyers, but I've said my peace.

[–]animeturtlesrefers you to the business guide[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント

I'm sorry if you have received hateful messages. You didn't make your post with bad intentions, but we simply had no place voting in that competition. This is a competition for local and regional cycling enthusiasts, and not for an international tech/charity community tens of thousands strong.

There is no value in calling it the "Dogecoin Downhill Trail", outside of advertisement for us. Voting for one project based on that wouldn't be a "mutually beneficial agreement", it would be an unfair advantage over other deserving projects and not be in line with our values. We had to correct this.

I agree that a Doge-themed trail could be fun and endearing. If you can find a good and visible trail, maybe we can even sponsor one. But flooding a contest with votes to divert resources to our project isn't the right way to go about it.

You made an honest mistake and overshot your goal. The idea wasn't as good as it sounded in the heat of the moment. There's no shame in letting go and moving on.

+/u/dogetipbot 33 doge verify

[–]Tennysonn -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

the following comment is by /u/Tennysonn and in no way represents WNYMBA:

It was not a "mistake." What makes you deserving of the the grant? your population? In that case there should not even be a contest. I hope Bell counts the reddit votes and I will volunteer to help WNYMBA build the trail.

[–]Frankenstein_34 5 ポイント6 ポイント

What makes RVa "more deserving" is that RVa had a landslide victory until you manipulated the votes by getting a random community involved through fraudulent practices.

[–]keywordtipbotdino shibe 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Congratulations! You got a word of the hour!
+/u/dogetipbot 20 doge verify.
Please consider tipping this bot to keep it running!
Suggestions? Problems? Post to /r/keywordtipbot Repeating the word is pointless. It changes.

[–]dogetipbotracing shibe 0 ポイント1 ポイント

[wow so verify]: /u/keywordtipbot -> /u/Frankenstein_34 Ð20 Dogecoins ($0.0089516) [help]

[–]bishop252 9 ポイント10 ポイント

Nothing makes them more deserving. But in a voting competition like this for charitable grants, all contestants should be given equal consideration by the voters without any outside influence. You knowingly tried to influence the voting by involving the dogecoin community and riding on the Josh Wise hype. Naming a trail the "Dogecoin Downhill Trail" with Doge trail markers, really? If your cause was so deserving why not present it with actual facts, like it's a 2 mile trail or on private property, or how you're serving a county with less than a 1000 people. If you can't present your cause in just light, don't expect the skeptical people on this subreddit to sit idly by.

The fact is, you tried to use a massive internet brigade capable of winning the Nascar all-star vote to try and garner 800 votes. If this really was a great cause, you should've just appealed to dogecoin to raise 30k directly.

[–]animeturtlesrefers you to the business guide[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント

It was a PR mistake at the very least. As you say, you're worrying about the reputation of your local biking association at this point. It was a questionable maneuver that amounts to free advertising for votes, and that's what everyone else sees it as - vote manipulation. We can't back this in good conscience.

If you think I have any interest in RVA winning this contest, you're mistaken. I live in Japan and I am only taking care of our community here. I have no connection to any place or entity in this contest.

You sound like you're getting very emotional about this and should have a cup of tea. Calm down, draw up some plans for a real Dogetrail, come chat with us about them later. We don't carry grudges.

[–]Tennysonn -1 ポイント0 ポイント

"everyone else" is extremely rhetorical. Please reference the statistics outside of Richmond that represent how "everyone else" sees this as vote manipulation. One man's innovation is another man's unfair advantage.

[–]Frankenstein_34 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Look. This isn't innovation... This is literally against the rules. Vote manipulation. You offered to name a trail after a community to get votes (and yes that was approved by your organization for the bike trail) and that is something that cannot be guaranteed, which means it is a fraudulent practice. You offered something that cannot be offered in order to gain votes from somebody. And the kicker is that it wasn't just an offer, but also backed by the WNY organization and not just you. If it was just you then you would have been completely lying about the trail names, which is most definitely a fraudulent practice for vote manipulation, and even more clearly against the rules.

And I don't know if you got it with my last comment to one of your comments... If lawyers are asking about y'all paying in Dogecoin for votes, you need to check this out:

http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/25swqt/dogecoin_downhill_trail_needs_your_votes_free/

I know that isn't you, but that could be what they are looking into. I don't think what you did was fair, but I don't think it's fair to put that added on when it clearly wasn't your doing.

Edit: words

[–]_Moon_ 4 ポイント5 ポイント

I wouldn't call what you did 'innovation'...the fact is that the votes were designed to engage each local community.

I really hope the previous contests didn't end this bitterly, but its understandable why this one did. Posts and flyers were all over RVA for weeks leading up to this, attempting to garner local support- for those that would use the trail. So at the 11th hour, voters led to a trail many would never ride or see, start raining votes- emotions started to run high. Many viewed this a dishonest/theft because it didn't seem to be in the spirit, or point of the grant, even from an outsiders perspective.

I'm sorry you got flayed by the RVA reddit community, but please don't draw conclusions on the city from such a small, and historically 'rough' crowd.

I really liked the NY proposal by the way. I hope you do get to build and ride it soon.

[–]DirectiveNineteen [score hidden]

He didn't really get flayed. One dude who knows nothing about marketing kinda came out with guns blazing-ish and used words like "asshat". There may have been more nastygrams (I'm not really keeping track, I've been outside) but most of the comments I saw on that post were eye-rolling and trying to get this straightened out.

In any event, seems mostly sorted out.

[–]Frankenstein_34 8 ポイント9 ポイント

You didn't just ask for the involvement of the r/Dogecoin! You offered to name a trail for them in return for blind voting! I understand that what you did was to try to bring a bike trail closer to your community, but it was still wrong. I wasn't one who sent despicable things to the WNY organizations Facebook or said anything here, but what you did was involve a bunch of people who didn't care beyond the idea of having promotion for their community. What you did was selfish and manipulative! I would have understood the idea of asking for help, informing them why yours was better, and pushing for voluntary voting. But instead you just offered to name a trail for them (when that might not have even been allowed by the rules anyways) and push to gain support by selling out your trail (even if you weren't paying in Dogecoin you still were selling out). I hope y'all can find funding even if you lose, and it might be a good idea to look for sponsors. I'm not angry that you looked outside of your local area for support, but how you did so was what is so upsetting. I found a lot of the RVa backlash pretty terrible as well, and I hope you don't all have continued backlash for this. But I hope that this competition is given a more fair look, rather than having blind votes effecting the overall outcome (although that may be unavoidable).

Also, just to add why the lawyers may be thinking y'all offered Dogecoin for votes... I saw many of the members of r/Dogecoin giving the currency to those who jumped on the bandwagon of voting for y'all. You might want to mention this to help your organization while communicating with lawyers. I don't think y'all should be in trouble for things you haven't done...

Edit: Added sentence for clarification...

[–]houseofchillalien shibe -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

You might want to mention this to help your organization while communicating with lawyers.

So you're threatening him??

[–]Frankenstein_34 3 ポイント4 ポイント

No... I'm offering him information so that his organization is not being accused of something they were not actually doing.

Edit: There have been some in your community who out of excitement have offered "tips" for votes. And I am trying to inform him of that since lawyers were telling them that they were doing so. I actually commented on another of his comments, but since he hasn't replied to me I don't know if he is reading the information. Although I don't think what they did was right, I don't want them punished for something they did not actually do.

Also, if I were threatening do you think I would say "to help your organization"? I think you may have either misread that or just didn't understand it.

[–]houseofchillalien shibe -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

No, OP's post was straight up intimidation by calling the other project a "mistake". Your tone validates what I didn't even know before the suggestion that Richmond is a bully. Lawyering up in 2 sided situation means a threat.

[–]Frankenstein_34 2 ポイント3 ポイント

OP was calling the blind voting a "mistake" because not all information about the competition was given fairly. And votes were received through vote manipulation by the WNY person by offering to name a trail after Dogecoin (which cannot be guaranteed would be considered a "Fraudulent practice" which was clearly stated in the rules).

Second, the lawyers are that of the company giving the grant out. I was offering information so that the WNY organization isn't punished for the one thing they didn't do. You should definitely reread the comments.

Tl;dr- Op is saying the blind voting due to the vote manipulation by the WNY person was the "mistake" and the lawyers are not Richmond's but those of the company giving out the grant.

Edit: And stating facts of this situation is not bullying. Bullying would be if I made things up and started saying those to try and ruin their image. What I am saying is all fact.

[–]animeturtlesrefers you to the business guide[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Branding the project "Dogecoin Downhill Trail" if it wins is what I called a mistake. It casts a bad light on any of our votes. We just shouldn't have been involved in this from the start.

[–]grencez 3 ポイント4 ポイント

We shouldn't have a doge in this race since the grant is for biking, not for advertising. At the moment, everything is as it was before /r/dogecoin got involved, which includes not beefing with /r/rva or their entire city. So it's a good time to pull out.

The idea wasn't shot down initially because we haven't had to deal with ethical dilemmas like this before. And for the same reason, people shouldn't be directly hating on you. That's all. GG though.

[–]GenConfusion 2 ポイント3 ポイント

wow man this thing sure has blown up in some kind of clusterfuck. Lawyers and everything....damn New twist and now suddenly I dislike the RVA folks for involving attorneys in this. I appreciate you coming back here and adding some perspective & plot twist.

Part of this is our fault too for being so swept up in the doge crusade.

Edit: It's kinda clear what I edited. Mouth in foot or foot on keyboard x{

[–]Frankenstein_34 7 ポイント8 ポイント

We didn't involve the lawyers. The lawyers are from the company that is providing the grant.

Edit: RVa supporters did contact the company about the Dogecoin involvement because there were offers to give free advertisement to Dogecoin which could very well be against the rules of anti vote manipulation. I'm sure he had the right intentions, but that doesn't mean he was right. Just as some RVa supporters who are attacking them may have right "intentions" they are just as wrong.

[–]GenConfusion 0 ポイント1 ポイント

thanks! Fixed.

[–]Frankenstein_34 0 ポイント1 ポイント

No worries. I'm seeing quite a few different posts about each opposing views, and I can only really clarify for how I'm seeing the RVa side is going. I am quite biased in saying that I think we had the best proposal, but even with that out of the equation I know that I have felt extremely cheated during this entire debacle. Not by the fact y'all are involved, but by the fact that "blind" voters (people who have no knowledge of the implications of this competition, or who don't understand all parties involved) have effected the voting like it has! RVa has pushed to build a very strong early lead, and although I wasn't involved early in the voting I understand how heart wrenching it is for all that work to (at one point) seem all for not! It's not just that we were winning, but it's that the reason we may lose is because another party was seemingly cheating! Please understand that before judging the RVa community based on all that's happened. (Although I definitely understand how easy it is to judge all the stupid comments from some of RVa's community)

[–]Tennysonn 5 ポイント6 ポイント

Just to be clear, as far as I can tell they did not contact the attorneys directly - but the backlash from their community caused the lawyers to get involved. I do not want to be part of the mud-slinging

[–]GenConfusion 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Edited my post. Thanks.