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The Pledge of Allegiance (i.imgur.com)

submitted by Funking_Wholesome

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[–]daoloth 319 ポイント320 ポイント

This is not a form of brainwashing! This is not a form of brainwashing!

[–]Cockalorum -12 ポイント-11 ポイント

Shhh shhh shhh.....Americans don't realize how creepy the pledge of allegiance is to outsiders.

[–]rayverine11 55 ポイント56 ポイント

Nope. I'm American. It seems cultish to me

[–]Mr_Cohen 12 ポイント13 ポイント

Same. I'm in high school and we started doing it again this year. Two months in I realized that I don't even think when I stand to say the pledge. That thought creeped me out.

[–]rayverine11 7 ポイント8 ポイント

My high school started doing it again this year too. Weird. I still stand up for it but I don't recite it or put my hand over my heart anymore. Especially after watching Hitler* youth videos in AP world. That shit is terrifying.

[–]Epic_Coleslaw 6 ポイント7 ポイント

butler youth

[–]thejensenfeel 3 ポイント4 ポイント

They'll polish all your silver, and they do a fine job of it, too, but the whole time they just have blank stares and hum "God Save the Queen."

[–]rayverine11 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Haha oops. Hitler youth. That's what I meant.

[–]msufan 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Last spring, Michigan passed a law that all classrooms must recite the Pledge daily. If either of you are from MI, that would explain why it started back up this year.

[–]rayverine11 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Oh well that'd explain that! Michigan represent!

[–]deadlysmasher93 0 ポイント1 ポイント

That makes so much sense. It started again this year and I've heard everyone saying the same thing.

[–]vlasvilneous 31 ポイント32 ポイント

You know, when I was told why we recite it in the morning, it is to honor all of the Soldiers who died for us during the many wars we had to fight to keep our freedom.

I did it for them, not for "a cult" as you all put it.

[–]Marmaladeofponies 9 ポイント10 ポイント

I think who ever told you that was bullshitting you, or repeating the bullshit of a previous bullshitter.

[–]vlasvilneous 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I dont give a fuck if they are. Id rather honor fallen war veterans in my own way because I like the idea/notion of honoring people that did what they did to prevent certain ways of life from becoming a reality.

[–]OccupyBohemianGrove 8 ポイント9 ポイント

That whole ''I do it for the soldiers who died for me'' sounds just as cultish. But I don't expect you to understand, it's the culture you gre up in after all.

[–]vlasvilneous 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I guess... just because I honor those that died doesnt mean Im indoctrinated into something.

The broad assumption that this somehow does make people "cultish" is, in itself a "cultish" behavior. Just think about that next time you think this shit.

How did you come by this belief by the way?

[–]rayverine11 23 ポイント24 ポイント

I was never told that, and it doesn't say anything about soldiers in it. It also violates the separation of church and state. I just don't like it. To me, it feels like a bunch of people chanting at a flag. Creeps me out.

[–]CrashnCashen 7 ポイント8 ポイント

That violation was only added during the Red Scare. It's total bullshit and i can't wait till "under god" is taken out. But it probrably never will be.

[–]Utis_Khan 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Supreme Court said you can't take it out back in like 2007. Atheist guy tried to sue a school in Chicago and it didn't budge even after the entire U.S. found out that under god wasn't in the original

[–]CrashnCashen 2 ポイント3 ポイント

That's unfortunate. But hey, it's not specific to any church or denomination, so it's not really establishing a relatonship between religion and the government. It's just vaguely referencing the existance of God. So it could be worse.

[–]PapaBird 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Yet excludes those with no belief by default.

[–]homeworld 0 ポイント1 ポイント

G.O.D.

Guaranteed Overnight Delivery

[–]mewarmo990 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I think it will be harder than ever to remove the line since the rise of the religious right from the 1970s onward. Unfortunately that's just how the political landscape of this country is.

The pledge itself is a fairly innocuous thing and there is no actual legal penalty for not saying the line or even the pledge, but it's not a great state of affairs.

[–]paranode 0 ポイント1 ポイント

They just copped out by saying he didn't have standing to sue. They didn't resolve the issue.

[–]rayverine11 1 ポイント2 ポイント

You're right that it probably won't be. I still wouldn't like the pledge even if that was taken out though.

[–]austeregrim 4 ポイント5 ポイント

You want to chant to a statue? Or we could do some pictures of our glorious dear leader.

[–]NotGoodBro 8 ポイント9 ポイント

No, I would much rather sing the Star-Spangled Banner. It is much more patriotic and is actually inspiring other than the mindless pledge.

Or you know, just stop socializing the young

[–]Defcon458 15 ポイント16 ポイント

How about we don't chant to anything?

[–]asleeplessmalice 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Yeah, how about at school we just learn shit. I think that'd be cool.

[–]austeregrim 0 ポイント1 ポイント

In school we can learn to chant to many things. Dear leader, picture of dear leader, statue of dear leader, did I mention dear leader?

[–]echief 0 ポイント1 ポイント

That isn't why it's recited, if so it would actually mention soldiers instead of being an oath of fealty. It's nothing more than propoganda the honoring soldier excuse is just what they tell kids who don't immediately fall for it.

[–]echief 0 ポイント1 ポイント

That isn't why it's recited, if so it would actually mention soldiers instead of being an oath of fealty. It's nothing more than propoganda the honoring soldier excuse is just what they tell kids who don't immediately fall for it.

[–]Ephraim325 -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

I grew up proud of my flag. If people die so i can say that pledge you damn well better believe i'll say that pledge.

[–]NotGoodBro 7 ポイント8 ポイント

You couldn't pledge without war?

[–]paranode 0 ポイント1 ポイント

The US wouldn't have been a country without war. So yeah, sort of.

[–]Ephraim325 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

Way to look at it the wrong way. I'm proud to be an american either way. but people died for this country to be founded, and many more have died since to protect it. Refusing to respect the land and ideals they fought for by considering the pledge to allegiance cultish is like spitting in the face of something that symbolizes those deaths, those that gave life and limb for this country.

[–]NotGoodBro 1 ポイント2 ポイント

But... The pledge doesn't do that. How about something like the Star-Spangled Banner that was written during a war and is much more patriotic?

[–]Antithesys 2 ポイント3 ポイント

They died so I didn't have to say the pledge, so I ain't sayin' it.

[–]vlasvilneous -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Great... I dont remember saying you shouldnt.

Who gives a fuck if you do or not?

[–]Rvb321 1 ポイント2 ポイント

In which case, I see no reason why they also couldn't have died for my right to not say it. I have alot of respect for our soldiers, but reciting the pledge still seems extremely cult-like. Hence why I dont do say it.

[–]Blatts 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Here y'arrr

[–]mewarmo990 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Assuming for discussion's sake that our service members actually died to protect American freedom of speech (which, in reality, has not been threatened for 200 years), they died so that we could personally choose whether or not to say the pledge.

This is not a comment on your personal preference, I think it's cool that people can get fired up about their country.

[–]vlasvilneous 0 ポイント1 ポイント

If they didnt stop the British, we would be in a different place right now. If they didnt stop Germany/Japan, it would also be a different place. Different governments can certainly effect ones freedom of speech. If you fail to realize that, then I wonder what "cult" you belong to that doesnt allow you to think freely.

Also, One does not get "fired up" about their country because of these things. One is proud of the accomplishments, which right now, I am not. I just keep in mind those that fought hard to give us the ability to change our government if we do not like where it is going.

[–]mewarmo990 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Why so aggressive? I never said or implied anything about cults.

The United States was never in danger of invasion by either Germany nor Japan. Perhaps if the war had gone a different way this would be true, but it did not. Revolutionary and 1812 wars, I certainly agree with you as I said in my post.

I just keep in mind those that fought hard to give us the ability to change our government if we do not like where it is going.

For much of our history, our forces have fought to protect American interests of a very different kind than constitutionally protected rights or American sovereignty, no matter how our politicians might try to spin it. I am not offering a judgment on whether this is right or wrong, only that when I see people thanking veterans for defending their right to free speech, I find that pretty delusional.

If one is saying the pledge in honor of those people who fought for the early United States, well, that's correct to me.

*edited for clarification

[–]finetundra -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

Right there with ya

[–]LittleBigKid2000 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Me too

[–]RiotReilly 3 ポイント4 ポイント

I just stopped saying or standing for it after a while. It's not mandatory and it always gave me the creeps.

[–]rayverine11 2 ポイント3 ポイント

I know what you mean. I've never really liked it either

[–]iusedtoknowthis 2 ポイント3 ポイント

American here. Always thought it seemed out of place.

[–]STEMinist 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Pander harder

[–]rayverine11 0 ポイント1 ポイント

What?

[–]Ephraim325 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Commie.

[–]rayverine11 0 ポイント1 ポイント

You got that right, comrad.

[–]WendyLRogers3 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Lycurgus of Athens (d. 324 BCE), held that "it is the oath which holds democracy together". Religion, morality and political organization have been linked by the oath, and oaths have become the basis of both civil and criminal, as well as international law.

In the modern era, internationalists have rejected national, religious, and moral oaths, as they consider nations as social constructs without meaning or purpose other than belligerence and war. Likewise they reject unique peoples, histories, religions and cultures, preferring open borders homogeneity and mediocrity. For this reason they despise oaths and pledges of loyalty.

Thus, when you consider the pledge of allegiance and other oaths as cultish, consider that those strongly opposed to them are also cultish, people who reject your uniqueness as a person, along with the uniqueness of your faith, your beliefs, and your nation.

[–]rarkasha 0 ポイント1 ポイント

That seems like a bit of an exaggeration. Surely not everyone opposed to the pledge of allegiance is an internationalist bent on destroying loyalty and promoting mediocrity? I mean, opposing it as a whole I might understand, but I can see where people are coming from when they want the pledge taken out of primary schools.

[–]elliuotatar -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

Nobody should declare an oath to a nation. They should declare an oath to the human race as a whole.

And you generalization of everyone who is opposed to the pledge is a load of shit. I despise oaths because pledging yourself to a nation or a religion is what leads to war.

[–]STEMinist 0 ポイント1 ポイント

*takes massive bong hit*

[–]iamesauce -1 ポイント0 ポイント

so you don't value your homeland?

[–]rj20876 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Yes we do.

[–]woundedonkey 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Shhh shhh shhh.....foreigners don't realize we're actually human beings

that's right, all foreigners.

literally all 6.7 billion of them

literally every single one

[–]echief 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I'm pretty most Americans have realized for a long time, which is why it isn't said anymore in a lot of areas. My teacher actually showed us this video in class to show us that the nazis and communists weren't the only ones who had ridiculous propoganda.

[–]daschande -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

We like to get the kids taken care of early. That way, when they learn about Manifest Destiny later; they won't even question that the USA is God's chosen elite country and Americans are all God's chosen elite people. They'll think talk like that is normal.

[–]iamesauce 0 ポイント1 ポイント

god you're a moron

[–]daschande -1 ポイント0 ポイント

OK, I'll bite; how so?