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[X-Post r/girlgamers] Company's response to outrage over its sexist T-shirt only makes things worse (dailydot.com)

submitted by mynamesnotmolly

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[–]mynamesnotmolly[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント

First of all, yes, it's sexist.

Second of all, my personal outrage is more focused on the idea that there is a "wrong" way to be a fan of something. That's so elitist, exclusionary bullshit. And that bullshit is generally funneled towards woman, for the record.

Source: woman in the geek community.

[–]xafimrev2 39 ポイント40 ポイント

Its elitist, its exclusionary, and its elitist and exclusionary equally to men and women. Hence, shitty, but not sexist.

[–]lenaro 19 ポイント20 ポイント

yeah, no. You know what's the wrong way to be a fan of something? To obsess over it to the exclusion of common sense. See, the insult part of 'fangirl' isn't the 'boy' or 'girl' part, it's the whole word - the part where you ignore all other things and act like your obsession is better than anything other people dare to enjoy. You become a fanboy when you take a subjective opinion ("I love the PS4") and turn it into an objective statement ("The PS4 is the best thing to ever happen to humanity"). When someone calls you a fanboy, they're not criticizing you for liking something. They're criticizing you for being an asshole.

The term is specifically used to denigrate unpleasant qualities in fans. That's why the term 'fanboy' is different from the term 'fan', and why "Microsoft fanboy" has very different connotations than "Microsoft fan".

My Little Pony fans enjoy a good show with nice writing and animation. My Little Pony fanboys push the show like it's the second coming and deride people who don't like it.

Pokemon fans think they're fun games with complex strategic elements and a large, varied cast of characters. Pokemon fanboys are unwilling to consider the possibility of liking other, similar games, and insult people who do.

Star Trek fans think it's a cool series that tackled interesting moral and ethical situations and had a uniquely positive outlook on the future. Star Trek fanboys will argue that liking Star Wars makes you a bad person.

[–]ringodesu 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Why do you have so many down votes? You're completely right.

[–]TransFattyAcid 12 ポイント13 ポイント

Because the rest of her comments down thread are incredibly shitty, so people are down voting all her comments. To imply that all hate in fandom is sexist and that it's OK to assume anyone stating the opposite must be a man is, in and of itself, sexist. Any sexist comment in TwoX should be downvoted and reported

[–]ringodesu 4 ポイント5 ポイント

I'll admit I haven't read every single one of her comments, but I could see how it would be frustrating to point out a blatantly sexist situation and to be demonized because people want to split hairs. Don't get me wrong, this is why discussion is important, to get to the root of the problem and to become enlightened.

But it seems that the problem is already illustrated when people want to sweep the shirt situation under the rug instead of acknowledge that women have suffered a history of alienation and hostility in this particular community. Not the vendor's fault, but the fault of the person who gives their money in order to express their gender hate.

[–]MeloJelo 1 ポイント2 ポイント

But I don't think this shirt is an expression of gender hate, it's an expression of hate toward a group of overenthusiastic fans using a slang term that is always gendered.

There is lots of sexism in the geek community, but this isn't a good example of it.

[–]ringodesu 2 ポイント3 ポイント

The term still utilizes sex to discriminate, though. If I saw someone walking around wearing this shirt, my first impression would be that he/she hates obnoxious fans of the strictly female variety. You could argue that fan boys are just as annoying and just as deserving of admonishment, but in this scenario, you are making the separation based on sex. That is the reason it's sexist.

[–]TransFattyAcid 1 ポイント2 ポイント

If your response to sexism is more sexism, you're wrong. If you're so frustrated that your only response is "nuh uh, cause you're a boy!" then it is time to get off the internet and go hug a puppy.

[–]figureour 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I could see how it would be frustrating to point out a blatantly sexist situation and to be demonized because people want to split hairs

All the downvotes she's getting is ridiculous, but I don't think all the comments are just splitting hairs. Sexism in fandom is a complex issue--the multiple connotations of the word "fangirl," the histories of each connotation, the fact that gender is automatically applied to "fangirl" and "fanboy," the histories of sexism in each individual fandom and the way they interact at multi-fandom events like big cons, how the shirt relates to that particular con--and I think it deserves to be dissected as much as possible. After all, can you really call the overall pop culture and fiction fandom a "particular community?" There are so many different communities contained under the banner of "fandom."

[–]ringodesu 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Don't get me wrong, this is why discussion is important, to get to the root of the problem and to become enlightened.

I'm not sure if you read the next sentence: I realize that while some people are making rational, poignant discussions, many others are not. It's the "splitting hairs" kind of comments that are muddling the discussion, not the comments with real intent behind them.

edit: formatting

[–]figureour 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Sorry, I think I'm way too tired and my reading comprehension has turned to shit.

[–]ringodesu 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Lmao das OK

[–]mynamesnotmolly[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I think there are a lot of fan-men on here, for whatever reason, taking issue with the claim that the community is sexist. Kind of illustrates the point. But thank you!

[–]KitsBeach 13 ポイント14 ポイント

What?

Anyone that disagrees with your opinion is a man. And you're here to speak out against sexism. This is all kinds of hilarious.

[–]Sleipnoir 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Nope, I'm a woman and ive found some of your comments pretty sexist. Particularly this one. Disagreeing with you does not make me a man.

[–]mynamesnotmolly[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Well I'm getting downvoted for finding something offensive and sexist, so fuck it I guess we're all in the same boat.

So exactly how have I been sexist, aside from snapping at that dude that he didn't need to identify he was a male, which yes, was not expressed correctly. In that case I was trying to make the point that women in the community often deal with sexism and men hide behind saying things like "Stupid fangirls," claiming it's about the fandom not the gender, blah blah blah......and then a guy got on there and said that it wasn't about gender, it was about fandom. So I was attempting to highlight that point.

So how exactly else have I been sexist?

[–]Sleipnoir 1 ポイント2 ポイント

By assuming that anyone who down votes or disagrees with you is a man.

[–]mynamesnotmolly[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I simply stated that there seem to be a lot of men on this thread (more than I've experienced in this sub in the past), not that they're the only one downvoting me. Sorry if that's not clear. I know for a fact that's the source of a lot of the hate on here, however.

[–]-ThisWasATriumph 5 ポイント6 ポイント

Agreed. And the "equally sexist both ways" argument doesn't really stand because fan communities have historically been hostile towards female fans and this just fuels the fire, whereas "fanboys" rarely get flak for doing what they do and a male invasion of a shoujo anime totally I'd acceptable but teenage girls liking giant fighting robots and spaceships is some egregious offense.

[–]xafimrev2 8 ポイント9 ポイント

Fanboys rarely get flak? Have you seen how bronies are treated? (I am not one, just saying)

It doesn't matter that you perceive fangirls are hated on more by people than fanboys, the shirts themselves are equal opportunity.

[–]IAMATruckerAMA 0 ポイント1 ポイント

That's ridiculous. How about people who are huge fans of the Bible, so they blow up abortion clinics? Hyperbole? Yep. Make up your own examples.

[–]mynamesnotmolly[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

Yeah, people who like something in a way you don't like are exactly like people who murder other people. Uh huh.

[–]IAMATruckerAMA -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Yeah, why in the world would I compare fans to fanatics? Would you like a hint?

[–]mynamesnotmolly[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Are you insinuating that I'm a fanatic? Would LOVE to hear all you know about my fandom.

[–]IAMATruckerAMA 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Aww. I didn't think you were stupid. This is less fun now. Anyway, "fan" is an abbreviation of "fanatic". Do you need help looking up "abbreviation"?

[–]Othello 0 ポイント1 ポイント

That's mainly because half the people here don't understand what a fanboy is. The quickest and easiest example is a fanboy of, say, xbox, who goes around hating on anything that isn't xbox. It's divisive, it's mean, it's just plain a bad thing to be, and there is no logical reason for it in the first place.