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What the heck is going on? (self.mwo)

armybratkpによる前の投稿

Hey guys,

Played a bit when I got a founder pack a while ago and then moved onto World of Tanks.

I was thinking of logging on because that free mech promo is actually a mech I almost bought because it looked awesome, so i figured i would check out reddit to see what has changed in the game since i played.

It seems like there is an air of revolt here and I was hoping someone could help me understand it?

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[–]xMWHOx 44 ポイント45 ポイント 前

Nothing has changed in MWO since you last logged in. Thats why everyone is pissed.

[–]VictorMorson 13 ポイント14 ポイント 前

While I'd like to say that, it did aggressively ... get worse.

[–]colonelpadavinson 5 ポイント6 ポイント 前

Best answer.

[–]ForestGnome4Russ's Islanders 7 ポイント8 ポイント 前

BULLSHIT, PGI'S BROKEN PROMISE METER HAS GONE THROUGH THE ROOF!

[–]moriant 6 ポイント7 ポイント 前

Clearly you are on an island good sir.

[–]colonelpadavinson 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

and this.

[–]spajn 5 ポイント6 ポイント 前

THIS!!!

[–]ArquinsielWord of Lowtax 9 ポイント10 ポイント 前

Well, because nobody else did it:

"Community Warfare!" :rimshot:

[–]VictorMorson 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

Somewhere in this, there will be a good The Aristocrats style joke for game designers, and the punchline will be "Community Warfare!"

[–]GaussDragonKaoS Legion 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

and the punchline will be "Community Warfare!"

I think "90 days from 'x'" is a contender for that one.

[–]VictorMorson 41 ポイント42 ポイント 前

OP: Let me sum it up for you quickly.

  • The balance in the game has gotten worse, and the lead developer is insane and/or stupid (Recently nerf'ed the AC2 of all things to solve a completely unrelated problem)
  • Old complaints like Ghost Heat and 3PV won't die because they are dumb things
  • Major features continue to be missing
  • Said lead designer made UI 2.0, which is worse than UI 1.0 in every way from flow to missing features
  • Absolutely terrible community relations

There's far, far, FAR more to it. This is like a wikipedia summary of a four hour movie.

Now for the other part. OutReachHPG is not the bastion of sanity they keep claiming over here.

You have to understand that the people in OutreachHPG are the last remaining hardcore players of a very, very dying game and anything that reminds them of that fact causes an immediate and violent reaction. In fact, as you can see here, they constantly come over to r/mwo just to say how sane they are.

The reality is they will downvote ANYTHING that suggests PGI is doing a less than perfect job. I'm going to let you in on a secret they won't admit: The reason they are doing this is they think that if they can help PGI sweep the dirt under the rug, the game they love won't die.

Most of us in r/mwo on the other hand love the IP, but aren't blatant - for lack of a better word - fan boys to the point that we will accept anything with the BattleTech or MechWarrior license as great automatically. Most of us loved the core game and how MW:O started out and are highly disappointed at the turns.

Most of us would LIKE to speak up and defend this game again, but when you're lead developer continues saying absolutely incoherently stupid things while Russ keeps making up lies to cover for the fact they HAD NOT STARTED ON CW YET AS OF THE APRIL UPDATE. But we can't, because our eyes are open and we're a little bitter from watching the franchise dragged through the mud.

i.e. r/mwo is for people who hated the Star Wars prequels and declared them shit immediately, and r/outreachhpg are for the Star Wars fans who declared the prequels absolutely awesome and would attack anyone who suggested otherwise until about a decade of realization set in for them.

When r/outreachhpg people look back, their rose colored glasses will probably break. You have to realize these people have KEPT playing 5 days a week in a game with 3 game modes, less than 10 maps, and no future to be the best... while ignoring the fact the number of competitive teams left has fallen to about 10 total.

Long story short, they will say ANYTHING to give this game another few days of life. Where as us "irrational, negative" people would like to see a change at PGI - even in philosophy (nuking their lead designer would be a great start) - before giving them another chance after years of this.

[Edit: You know, I can't help but think Fox News is a good comparison to the HPG people too. Constantly going on about how they are the "fair and reasonable" group, while being the biggest one-sided logic-discarding zealots of them all.]

ED: Also I can't help but think some people have developed "Game Stockholm syndrome." You have no idea how shocking it was to go from the most recent MW:O patch notes of insanity to the Planetside 2 patch notes, which included more buffs and nerfs than PGI has done in 2 years, and they were all very reasonable; OP things were nerfed, UP things were buffed, all to appropriate degrees (though they may have been a bit harsh on the AV MANA). Even if you disagree with a change here or there, I not once got the feeling it was being run by a clueless ego maniac as I do with every update of MW:O.

If you've made MW:O your primary game for years and haven't played much else in the F2P world, stepping outside of MW:O is kind of mind blowing as how much the whole concept has been improved everywhere else but here.

[–]Ed_Elrich 13 ポイント14 ポイント 前

Thats a hell of a summary O.o

[–]Deskopotamus 5 ポイント6 ポイント 前

I hang out on Outreach because I hate just reading post after post of vitriol. PGI is an utter disappointment yes, but the core game is still enjoyable. Shitting all over the game doesn't encourage others to play it, which is the only thing that will help this game move onward.

Quite frankly I think the Dev's have long since stopped listening to anything on this or any other sub, so arguing about the games future prospects or faults is a bit pointless. I still enjoy the game however and in it's current form it's still much better than launching a game of COD.

I left r/mwo not because I wanted to bury my head in the sand but because it turned into a very angry circle jerk, and I'd rather not foam at the mouth hate fucking my hand all day.

Oh, and Episode 1 sucked the moment I left the theatre, how dare you imply otherwise. Say what you want about MWO but no one gets off telling me I enjoyed one minute of Jar Jar Binks!

[–]jsh1138 8 ポイント9 ポイント 前

Quite frankly I think the Dev's have long since stopped listening to anything on this or any other sub

the devs were saying 2 years ago that they actively avoided their own forums. its not anything that people here are doing that drove them away, they didn't give a shit to start with

[–]GaussDragonKaoS Legion 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

which is the only thing that will help this game move onward.

No, the only thing that will help this game move forward is PGI's management collectively pulling their heads out of their asses and short of miracle, I'm not holding my breath for that to happen.

I'm not sure if I should be crying or laughing at the fact that people repeatedly shift the blame from the PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING THE FUCKING GAME AND WHO BEAR ALL THE RESPONSIBILITY to the fans who want to play this game but can't bring themselves to because the aforementioned developers refuse to adjust course.

[–]Ed_Elrich 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

I'm not sure if I should be crying or laughing at the fact that people repeatedly shift the blame from the PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING THE FUCKING GAME AND WHO BEAR ALL THE RESPONSIBILITY to the fans who want to play this game but can't bring themselves to because the aforementioned developers refuse to adjust course.

this

[–]p3llin0r3 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

This sums it up perfectly.

I know their probably trying their hardest, buy it doesn't seem to be good enough. :(

There are a million better games to play, I don't need to waste my time on this one .

[–]DiomedesTydeus 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

I think this summary would have been a lot better if half of it wasn't devoted to hurling personal insults at OutreachHPG.

[–]Ed_Elrich 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

...if they didnt deserve them you mean

[–]DiomedesTydeus 4 ポイント5 ポイント 前

No, I mean it's silly for someone to say "Hey, what's wrong with MWO?" and the reply to be "Man let met tell you about these jerks over here instead." It's just a poor argument.

[–]VictorMorson 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

Read the posts below mine. There is literally an OutreachHPG cheerleader squad going on, for context to this post.

The OP also asked why there was a divide in the community.

The response was appropriate.

[–]mechwarriorbuddahIslanders 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

It was why Bill was removed as a mod

Yeah it was bad lol

[–]tropdars -1 ポイント0 ポイント 前

That wasn't his argument, you disingenuous cunt.

[–]levitas 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

Victor, you've been around longer than me and have therefore had a lot more promised relative to what was delivered. I started last August, and have seen slow but steady improvement in most fronts. I was worried that the game was going to die any minute (mostly because of what I read here), and then PGI grabbed a deal for the MW license for a couple more years. Since then PGI's consistently hit deadlines. I agree of course that not all 2.0 features were delivered, but there was communication with the playerbase about that before release. 2.0 was and is not a great step forward from a UI perspective, but since then they've been doing the things they said UI development has been bottlenecking. Also, I see people talking about how the player base is drying up (obviously), because why else would PGI be putting things on sale and giving away mechs. Then I go onto the forums and see between 1300 and 800 people there alone.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I have fun with this game, and a lot of other people do to. It's hard to hear people saying "the game you like is shit and dead already" over and over again, and that attitude is expressed in abundance over here. Hell, I've seen people saying that MWO is the worst thing that's happened to battletech ever. That simply doesn't match my experience. It makes sense that people with such opposite opinions have a bit of vitriol for each other, as it does feel personal when someone's badmouthing your side, but claiming that the only place I can find to talk about a game I like without it being trash talked constantly is "the Fox News" here is a bit harsh.

[–]WoL-MintFrogWord of Lowtax 11 ポイント12 ポイント 前

I'd like to share a little anecdote that will hopefully clarify some of the confusion you seem to have when people say PGI is not hitting their deadlines.

When I assign a project to my class, the students will fall into one of several different predictable paths. Some will work diligently and spend their time effectively, producing a high quality product by the due date. Others will sit around, do some google image searching, stare at the wall, and otherwise waste their time until about 10 minutes before the assignment is due. At that point, they will quickly slap something together that vaguely resembles the success criteria of the assignment. Was it turned in on time? yes. Does it meet the criteria? possibly, but the quality of work is always lacking. Sometimes, they'll even act shocked when you point out the lack of effort to produce something of quality. As if they'll somehow be so offended that it will convince me that it's the best anyone could do.

Both types of students get their work in on time, but only one group gives a shit about what they turn in. Now look at UI2.0 when they launched it and tell me it's the work of people who take pride in what they do and hit their deadlines. Add in the fact that this latest UI2.0 deadline is the anecdotal equivalent of the student turning something in after several deadline extensions and a clearly fraudulent sick note from "mom". PGI don't take pride in what they do and it shows in every aspect of their game.

[–]VictorMorson 7 ポイント8 ポイント 前

You might like it but enough people have left that their refusal to try to win back ANYONE will mean it's going to drop dead anyway.

Frankly the white knights have been enabling Paul's candy crush addiction and not helping the game. Pulling a wallet freeze until change happened would have accomplished far more.

I like the core game too. That's the most frustrating part. The core game is great and entirely salvageable, but they are letting a lunatic run the asylum.

[–]Serious_TableThud, Son of Thud 6 ポイント7 ポイント 前

You might like it but enough people have left that their refusal to try to win back ANYONE will mean it's going to drop dead anyway.

I know a lot of us feel really strongly about topics like this, but in that very particular instance, we have no physical proof at all. We all have our interpretations of actions that are being taken, but no solid actual proof of that.

[–]VictorMorson 4 ポイント5 ポイント 前

The number of competitive teams have dropped like a rock.

The rest of the teams are seeing a lance or two tops, never full 12 mans.

I can recognize at least half of everyone in game on most drops from the forums, odd for being such a "minority."

There's a whopping 22 people at most viewing GD at any given time.

Still absolutely no new user experience, years later, driving new players off entirely

Yeah if you can't see it's dying without "hard numbers" that PGI won't release, you must be powered on wishful thinking and dreams.

This is another reason I feel bad for people buying Clan packs: I have absolutely every reason to believe this game will not be alive this time next year.

As I said, OutreachHPG wants to pretend this isn't happening or claim it isn't, because they think if they admit it, it will become true. The irony being that their blind support of this game is why it became true, and if they had thrown in with the rest of the community and told PGI "No money until you stop being a bag of dicks" we might have had a different outcome.

But too many white knights had a stick right where the sun doesn't shine over the fact that, gasp, goons were a driving force behind trying to knock sense into the game so refused.

Good job.

[–]Serious_TableThud, Son of Thud 7 ポイント8 ポイント 前

Yeah if you can't see it's dying without "hard numbers" that PGI won't release, you must be powered on wishful thinking and dreams.

I moderate two subreddits that are diametrically opposed to one another. Wishful thinking and dreams are how I survive the day, Victor.

[–]AvatarOfMomus 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

Reasonable fact based discussions in r/mwo!?!? WHAT IS THIS SHIT O.O

[–]atriax 7 ポイント8 ポイント 前

I don't know what "deadlines" you think they are reaching, because they are not, have not, and will not ever meet them. The game has had the same meta for well over a year. It has had the same hit detection issues, ghost heat issues, 3pv issues for over a year. And instead of addressing any of that he nerfs one of the only weapon systems that quite honestly nobody gives a fuck about, the AC2. The lead designer believes in order to nerf pop tarting you must nerf the mechs torso twist. He believes that there is no need to fix the horrendous weapon we all know as the SRM. I could continue but really there's no point. He is making the team program terrible things when they should just be learning how to work with crytek engine better..

[–]StandingCowIslanders 9 ポイント10 ポイント 前

There is nothing to understand, we are all on an island and everything is fine in MWO land. Relevant

[–]Jedi_OutcastWord of Lowtax 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

/r/MWO subreddit is best subreddit.

[–]Ed_Elrich 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

You should link the on an island comment, he hasnt seen it

[–]TainwulfFree Rasalhague Republic 11 ポイント12 ポイント 前

Too many missed deadlines, broken promises, and outright lies from PGI sapped most of the morale out of everyone here.

[–]Macgyveric 6 ポイント7 ポイント 前

I would have given it a go if I still played the game, or if good news actually came out. As it is, with the C-Bill nerfs, lack of metagame and other gameplay changes, I just don't think I'd play much after I got that new mech.

For now I'm just lurking here hoping for good news.

[–]Intardnation 4 ポイント5 ポイント 前

it is ok -the only way pgi can get people to play the game is to give all the goodies away for free.

Hope that tells you everything you need to know about the game and its state.

[–]NaaaaakBad Players Like Ghost Heat 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

MWO: Great core gameplay, consistently driven towards the dumpster since beta.

I'd be fine with the slow progress if they were making progress. Everything related to ghost heat fucks up this game and is not progress.

[–]deenut 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

Ignore it and go win 5 matches!

[–]Homeless-BillQQ Mercs 5 ポイント6 ポイント 前

/r/mwo was taken back by the original owners (Goons), so most people left for /r/OutreachHPG. Check it out if you're more into news than whine.

[–][deleted] 8 ポイント9 ポイント 前

Talk about blowing yourself. Everyone here likes Serious_Table because he doesn't pull self flagellating crap like this. Without him I doubt Outreach would be in the position it currently is in.

[–]Ed_Elrich 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

Who got deleted and why O.o

[–]Homeless-BillQQ Mercs -3 ポイント-2 ポイント 前

I'm losing the popularity contest? Why didn't someone tell me sooner?

Serious is seriously fucking awesome, and /r/OutreachHPG wouldn't have happened at all without him. There's no doubt that he's more principled and civil than I will ever be.

But I'm not going to try to be him or act like him. I'm the same opinionated asshole I've always been, and I'm not going to stop calling it like I see it. The Goons took back their sub, and more than 50% of people left for Outreach; I don't see how that's a controversial statement.

I also don't see how it's controversial to say that Outreach is the place for news and this is the place for whine. A lot of the news and developer communication is x-posted over here, but not all of it. And this is certainly the central hub for discontent. Whine is a loaded term I suppose, but what else would you call constantly and loudly reiterating a negative position?

This guy showed up baffled as to why the place was in revolt, and it's because all that's left are the haters. Not that being a PGI hater is an invalid stance to take, but that is who's still here.

If he's looking for some anti-PGI rage, this is the place to be; if he's looking for just about anything else, I'd recommend Outreach.

[–]ForestGnome4Russ's Islanders 5 ポイント6 ポイント 前

To be fair, any REAL news at outreach is ALWAYS posted here, the rest on outreach is mostly empty twitter promises that never added to the game anyways.

[–]ArquinsielWord of Lowtax 5 ポイント6 ポイント 前

I told you.

[–]Ed_Elrich 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

Man, the HPG downvote squad is here in force

[–][deleted] 8 ポイント9 ポイント 前

Tone means everything, and can still be conveyed through text based speech. As a moderator you also hold a great sway over how the entire sub acts. There are plenty of ways you could convey the idea that the naive fans of MWO split off and made their own sub. The way you presented the facts shows a bias and animosity towards the individuals here (did you pick up the tone from my sentence? It's a reflection of yours). More importantly it rubs off on your users and continues the hate between these subs.

In my eyes you're one of the biggest problems MWO's external community faces.

[–]Homeless-BillQQ Mercs 4 ポイント5 ポイント 前

Now this is a good post with a lot of good points.

As a moderator you also hold a great sway over how the entire sub acts

I recognize that, and when I've got my moderator / Outreach hat on, I set the best example I can. I'm as civil as I can be, I try to rescue threads that are going down for no reason other than being from /r/mwo, and I've explicitly requested people stop downvoting this place several times.

But I don't always have that hat on. This is a place where I can take the gloves off and have some fun. Being civil gets old, so I enjoy the occasional swim in unmoderated waters. I don't particularly want people to follow my example here, but I'm not going to submit to responsibility.

The way you presented the facts shows a bias and animosity towards the individuals here

I don't claim to be neutral. I think this place is mostly a cesspool. I don't think the opinions here are wrong; I think we've all gotten fucked. While I recognize the difficulty of software development, there's also no excusing the ridiculous decisions and lies coming from the top. I've frequently criticized PGI in the past, I continue to do so to this day, and I'm far from being satisfied with the state of the game.

But this sub is 100% negativity. It's either, "It's dead," "It's dying," or "It should die." It gets old. I can link you to plenty of critical submissions on HPG; there are no positive submissions here.

I'd rather players visit Outreach to get information, get help, and discuss things instead of hearing what a shit-fest everything is in every single thread. If they sour on the game, it should be because of their own experience - not from hearing the whines of a thousand disappointments.

More importantly it rubs off on your users and continues the hate between these subs.

I'm certainly not helping, but there's also nothing I can do one way or another in terms of healing the rift. Many on both sides of the fence are bitter, and they'll continue to be regardless of how I act. For three months, I stayed away and did everything I could to promote unpopular x-posts and request that people be civil towards /r/mwo. It did virtually no good.

And as I've stated many times recently, the split is a good thing. This crowd seems to think Outreach is nothing but pro-PGI white knights, and Outreach seems to think you're all a bunch of whiny children. Mixing two groups that have no respect for each other just doesn't work; you're all enjoying /r/mwo with less white knights around, and we're all enjoying Outreach without the constant whining.

In my eyes you're one of the biggest problems MWO's external community faces.

Aww <3

[–]ArquinsielWord of Lowtax 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

You. Do not. Ever. Change. Hat.

This is something we've been telling the PGI mods for years now, why the hell have you not realised it?

[–]Ed_Elrich 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

I recognize that, and when I've got my moderator / Outreach hat on, I set the best example I can.

You have to realize that even when you DONT have that "hat" on youre STILL a mod there and STILL set an example for what to be expected FROM there. Thats why Kbilly was banned there wasnt it? His shitposting here?

But I don't always have that hat on. This is a place where I can take the gloves off and have some fun. Being civil gets old, so I enjoy the occasional swim in unmoderated waters. I don't particularly want people to follow my example here, but I'm not going to submit to responsibility.

lol great attitude for a mod. Trolling is "fun" to you.

So how far do you get to go till you follow Kbilly? Are you gonna ban yourself?

[–]Ed_Elrich -1 ポイント0 ポイント 前

I think that if the subs were allowed to get along, there might be a chance (as per what Serious has been trying to do) the subs would re-merge. Bill cant have THAT

[–]Ed_Elrich 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

Funny, as a moderator youd think youd at least pretend to act like something other than a self flagellating asshole like you do.

You reflect your sub, you SHOULD know that, but you dont care.

Then again, Id rather be here with the whining than somewhere Ill get banned for posting things you dont like, which seems to be your criteria for that.

"Dont be a dick" rule system and all

[–]Ed_Elrich 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

Yeah I like how to ARGUE the point of how bad it is there as opposed to here, he does this lol

[–]Ed_Elrich 6 ポイント7 ポイント 前

Or into being called "literally a terrorist" for asking Niko Snow to do his job.

Also; expect to be downvoted vigourously and told to take your negative attitude here if you display any view other than the lock step of HPG.

[–]Homeless-BillQQ Mercs -2 ポイント-1 ポイント 前

expect to be downvoted vigourously and told to take your negative attitude here if you're being a dick

Fixed.

It's the difference between the views voiced in this thread and the views of the original. The content is the same, but the aggressive tone is dialed back. Present your case in a civil manner, and you'll generally be just fine. There are plenty of anti-/r/mwo attitudes on Outreach, but they get moderated like any other insults if they cross the line.

Tone matters a great deal to most people. A lot of you show up shouting and then come crying back here about "censorship" this and "echo chamber" that, when in fact you just presented your case like a total asshole. Many of you do your opinions injustice by being such dicks.

Another fine example of two ways to present an argument can be found here, courtesy of me going off on some random dude. I am an arrogant prick, and I pretty much always think I'm right; however, that does absolutely nothing to convince others. If you don't attempt to tailor your message to your audience, you might as well just not bother.

[–]ArquinsielWord of Lowtax 8 ポイント9 ポイント 前

Do you realise that your "fixed" version is the same as the original?

[–]_Particle_Man_ 8 ポイント9 ポイント 前

but they get moderated like any other insults if they cross the line.

the arbitrary line.

not to mention the non-moderator downvote brigade that will self-moderate opposing opinions.

[–]WoL-MintFrogWord of Lowtax 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

I love how they added the little disclaimer to their subreddit telling people what the voting is for, and then proceed to downvote the fuck out of anyone who doesn't spew out the PGI party line. They're playing make believe that they're somehow better than the rest of us. Like a Republican Senator who spends all day talking about the sin of being gay, and then spending all evening in a truck stop bathroom sucking cock.

[–]Homeless-BillQQ Mercs -4 ポイント-3 ポイント 前

It's an arbitrary line like all moderation, but what have we censored aside from cunty behavior? What enlightening discussion has happened here that we sheltered Outreach from? Good luck finding something.

And in terms of the downvote brigade, it's like you didn't even read the comment you're responding to. Look here, and now look here. The content is the same, but shockingly one wasn't buried. And it's because one doesn't come off like a pretentious asshole.

I'll admit a few things will never fly over there, but most of the time all it takes is a little effort to not be a pushy evangelist about your views.

[–]Ed_Elrich 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

About that line.

How do you get banned? Ive never seen that line get defined. I asked multiple times in that neat name and shame thread you made when MWB got banned from there and never got a straight answer.

It seems to be "dont say things we dont like"

Or "dont be a dick" which is the same thing

[–]mechwarriorbuddahIslanders 7 ポイント8 ポイント 前

And I had to argue the point to get Kbilly banned from there by the way.

I did FAR LESS to recieve my ban.

[–]Ed_Elrich 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

Pretty damning when youre in the negatives Bill, and MECHWARRIOR BUDDAH is getting upvoted

[–]Homeless-BillQQ Mercs -1 ポイント0 ポイント 前

No one else gets why this is funny, but I'm practically in tears. You are a champion.

[–]diabloenfuegoHouse Davion Federated Suns 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

He's not very smart. Turns out, when you argue with children in their own playground, they stick together. He somehow thinks upvotes from a very tiny, yet negatively-focused subset of a population actually represent overall opinion.

You're doing fine, Bill. Everyone's welcome to their opinions, some folks just need to understand that their opinions don't mean shit in an already-existing ocean of shit.

[–]Ed_Elrich -2 ポイント-1 ポイント 前

Its funny, you ban by "feel" the same way the game is balanced by "feel". Neither works

[–]_Particle_Man_ 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

i dont care enough to go search out that sort of thing. Maybe buddah's got some examples, that seems right up his alley.

and i take the path of least resistance to avoid all of that, i leave that sub for those that want to go there. Then i dont have to argue, deal with the blind white knights, or the downvote brigades. Except of course when they come over here to do what they bitch about happening there and to do their downvote brigading here.

there's plenty of space on the internet for both views

[–]ForestGnome4Russ's Islanders 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

I find it ironic that now, Homeless Bill has been censored on Outreach after defending it right here.

[–]Ed_Elrich 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

HE volunteered to step down btw, its not like he was banned like Kbilly was for the same conduct (kbilly was banned there not for the lawsuit threat like he was here but for his shitposting here).

And given that Bill was the one that led the supposed exodus to HPG (and said he'd never return then returned to do victory laps when Kbilly got banned) his defending free speech here was pretty limp

[–]ForestGnome4Russ's Islanders -1 ポイント0 ポイント 前

I thought serious said he was asked to step down.

[–]Ed_Elrich 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

I thought serious said HE said he'd step down O.o

[–]ForestGnome4Russ's Islanders -1 ポイント0 ポイント 前

After being asked

[–]Ed_Elrich 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

And a much larger part of it is you guys ARE assholes. Like the three cases I mentioned but yeah, keep preaching

You admitting youre an asshole doesnt make you less of one

[–]Ed_Elrich 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

A GREAT example of this, as youre so keen on examples is this subthread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/mwo/comments/238535/mwo_news_win_5_games_get_a_free_phoenix_mech_mech/cgukdof

Follow it dows to where diablo is trying to say Victor is the exact same type of evil as Kbilly/ForestGnome/whoever called him a terrorist, BECAUSE HE'S VOCAL

[–]diabloenfuegoHouse Davion Federated Suns 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

I never said Victor was threatening people...only that he stirs the pot-of-shit in HPG just like you were so keen to point out that some people seem to come here to stir shit up. That was my entire point, that it isn't just one forum or the other, but the people themselves; you can't just lump everyone into one forum and call it a day unless you're completely inept and don't understand social structure (these people are usually called bigots when they blindly follow these pre-determinations). This is a point that you missed repeatedly because you've got your own agenda you're trying to sell (as you're attempting to do again by posting this).

This is a very subtle way to try to bring back up an old, tired, and pointless conversation though while trying to make yourself seem like you're above it. Nice try, still pathetic.

Anyone that reads that threads should bear in mind that Ed missed the entire point of the discussion from the get-go. Ah well, c'est la vie. You can't fix stupid and you can't change people.

[–]Homeless-BillQQ Mercs -5 ポイント-4 ポイント 前

I don't really understand your point or how this relates at all to what I'm saying. There are assholes everywhere, including Outreach. My only claim is that if you present your case with a civil tone, you won't be downvoted into oblivion on Outreach.

If you want to keep tallies on which sub has how many assholes, you go right ahead. I'm not going to engage you on this straw man diversion. This was your original claim:

expect to be downvoted... if you display any view other than the lock step of HPG.

And it's bullshit. That is all.

[–]Ed_Elrich 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

No, its really not sadly

[–]WoL-MintFrogWord of Lowtax 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

"My only claim is that if you present your case with a civil tone, you won't be downvoted into oblivion on Outreach." If you honestly believe this, you're an idiot. If you don't, you're just a liar. Which is it?

[–]Homeless-BillQQ Mercs 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

/u/PoliteVictorMorson. Those threads fared much better than their original counterparts here and here. There were still a disproportionately high number of downvotes, but a less alarmist and aggressive tone made both of them do just fine.

Some at Outreach will downvote /r/mwo x-posts and negativity no matter what. They're the same people that come over and downvote random things. I wish they didn't. But as long as you state your case in a civil fashion, most people will listen.

Check this out. I could have easily made that a post that got buried by making it sound more like this:

Just kidding. It fucking sucks. THE AC/2 WAS JUST FINE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!? WAY TO GO PAUL YOU'RE RUININING MWO!

If you were trying to get someone at work fired, would you run in shouting to the boss, "FRED IS A FUCKING IDIOT AND HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S DOING! HE'S LITERALLY RUINING EVERYING!" or would you calmly and logically lay out your case against Fred, keeping as much emotion out of it as possible? All that most (not all, but most) people at Outreach are looking for is an adult tone. It can even be harsh. But the alarmist sentiment doesn't fly.

[–]Sarsapariller 6 ポイント7 ポイント 前

Bill, stop banging your head on the brick wall. Just accept that the MWO/OutreachHPG dynamic is summed up from this scene in Ren & Stimpy, and move on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpJNXZQ-ROY

[–]diabloenfuegoHouse Davion Federated Suns 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

This is a sensible and accurate sentiment.

[–]WoL-MintFrogWord of Lowtax 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

You can play pretend that you're more mature than others over in your little sandbox if you want. However, living in a land of make believe about what MWO and PGI actually are is not being an adult. Coming into /mwo to stir up shit at every opportunity is a great example of that.

[–]mechwarriorbuddahIslanders 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

Man, is everyone at HPG coming into this thread to play karma wars? lol

[–]WoL-MintFrogWord of Lowtax 5 ポイント6 ポイント 前

White knights hate it when you expose them for what they really are.

[–]Ed_Elrich 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

Coming into /mwo to stir up shit at every opportunity is a great example of that.

Doing so when Serious_Table is trying to do the opposite is just being a complete asshole.

[–]VictorMorson 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

I make no secret of the aggressive and loud tone. And "shit stirring" as someone called it above fits. Mostly because I like shaking people back to reality from time to time again, in particular when they try to desperately insulate themselves from it.

Also at this point direct feedback about Paul is warranted. He created the systems we hate, he created the UI we hate, he makes the balance changes we hate and he avoids work for as long as possible, just causing.. more hate.

As the picture becomes more and more clear at PGI with information coming out of them, it becomes painfully clear he is the #1 root problem for almost all issues in the game, with Russ enabling him to keep that position being even worse.

I honestly believe if they were to remove him and promote just ONE person who gives a damn about the franchise and not trying to pretend they are a super pro game developer, they'd turn this game around fast.

So yeah. Attacks directed at Paul are absolutely warranted at this point. It's a shame HPG doesn't want to admit there's a problem because if they voted with their wallets, maybe we'd finally get rid of this idiot.

[–]Homeless-BillQQ Mercs 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

No disagreements here. Frankly, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone that would defend Paul at this point.

I just think that what you see as a wake-up call is actually just turning people off to the idea that there are legitimate problems. If you were trying to convince church-goers that there was no god, you wouldn't run in on a Sunday screaming, "GOD IS A LIE, YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!" They'd simply tune you out, be offended, and move on (and possibly call the police).

It makes all the people with legitimate complaints and concerns look loud and crazy, frankly. You may think adding soft language softens the message, but I think you'll find that your approach to "convincing" people is ineffective in every facet of life. You can't bludgeon a view into someone - you have to subvert their view by finding common ground and exploiting it.

That said, you're totally entitled to your style; I just think it does the opposite of what you intend.

[–]Ed_Elrich 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

It makes all the people with legitimate complaints and concerns look loud and crazy, frankly.

pot, meet kettle given the statements you make later on O.o

[–]TheFlamingGitLiao Death Commandos -1 ポイント0 ポイント 前

HEIL MYSELF !

[–]p256 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

hydra

[–]VictorMorson 4 ポイント5 ポイント 前

"Most people" is a vast, vast overstatement, Bill.

More like "Most people who still insist the game is fine, everything is fine, no really" moved there. There's just as much activity over here.

[–]WoL-MintFrogWord of Lowtax 5 ポイント6 ポイント 前

What we learned after the split is that of the people subscribed to /MWO, only about a third of them are either active, or give a shit about hanging out with white knights enough to head over to HPG. If that isn't a huge cultural victory for our side, I don't know what is.

[–]cheeseman82 6 ポイント7 ポイント 前

Out of the thousands of subscribed users, there's ~50 active users of these subreddits. +/- 5 at any time for HPG want to get their daily refreshing read about how rainbows are flying out of Paul's spectacular balancing ass.

Woopty fucking doo. King of Molehill Mountain.

[–]WoL-MintFrogWord of Lowtax 5 ポイント6 ポイント 前

50 would be very generous. Most of the time it's 20-30.

[–]jsh1138 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

MWO's dev's delight in lying to the community and trolling us on purpose and then going back on their promises and pretending they only did so because the community asked them to, etc

that's basically the problem. we still don't have CW, which was promised soon after open beta, they keep fucking with the way weapons work for absolutely no reason, they keep nickel and diming the community with real money "bargains", etc etc

basically the game is in maintainence mode already and they're just milking it for cash while they work on something else

[–]mechwarriorbuddahIslanders 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

and pretending they only did so because the community asked them to, etc

You make me hurt you.

[–]jsh1138 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

its the truth dude. read russ's "oh i wonder if the community would even want CW, or if maybe they'd rather have that next year if it meant more polish on things like cockpit glass! think about how cool that would be!" post

its ridiculous. they haven't even started the thing, so they're going to put up some fake poll and have people vote to have them do the things they're doing anyway

[–]mechwarriorbuddahIslanders 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

They did the same damn thing with that bullshit 3pv in 12 man only que poll (then made biased polls bannable on their forums ironically) why are you surprised?

[–]jsh1138 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

i'm not surprised at all

[–]Ed_Elrich -1 ポイント0 ポイント 前

Lol, I think this thread sums the whole thing up pretty well.

Homeless Bill the moderator over to HPG trolling and acting like a dick (something thats bannable over there by the way), Serious Table (HPG's creator) trying to be the good guy and being a good guy, the rest of us throwing bullshit at Bill's BS rants.

[–]StormFrog -3 ポイント-2 ポイント 前

In January the reddit community for MWO split in two. /r/MWO tends towards negativity. /r/OutreachHPG seems slightly more active and has less "The sky is falling!" posts.

I just do this http://www.reddit.com/r/OutreachHPG+mwo/new/ and cherry pick the good discussions.

[–]Ed_Elrich 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

They also tend toward calling people literally terrorists for telling Niko Snow to do his job and they also tend towards coming here and either throwing around IRL threats or telling ppl to kill themselves.

But yeah, totally more positive.

[–]Serious_TableThud, Son of Thud 4 ポイント5 ポイント 前

tend toward calling people literally terrorists

One instance of it happening does not "tend toward".

[–]Ed_Elrich -2 ポイント-1 ポイント 前

And when you tell pl to bring the negativity here, are you really surprised when it becomes negative here?

[–]Serious_TableThud, Son of Thud 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

So the last couple of weeks of trying to remind people to be respectful of posters on both subreddits amounts to my telling them to take their negativity to the other subreddit I moderate?

[–]Xabraxis 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

I don't think it is in your control, Serious. Despite your best efforts, other people like Bill come here and see fit to level insults. Just look a little bit down, and you will see him at work.

[–]mechwarriorbuddahIslanders 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

Serious, when even your sub's MODS cant control themselves, it might be time to pack it in.

[–]WoL-MintFrogWord of Lowtax 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

It's always funny to see people go mad with even the tiniest shred of power.

[–]Ed_Elrich -1 ポイント0 ポイント 前

Seriously (no pun intended) Bill is here undoing every bit of goodwill ten times over that Serious creates by trying to keep ppl from fighting

[–]ArquinsielWord of Lowtax 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

Nah, I don't hold him responsible for Bill's bullshit.

[–]cheeseman82 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

Nope.

Take it up with Lex and Bill who dismissed your call of civility and continue to fight a war that doesn't exist on your behalf without your consent.

Thought you guys already banned kbilly for this shit.

[–]Ed_Elrich 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

Yeah, cant be banning moderators for the same types of things that the regular grunts do.

[–]Ed_Elrich -2 ポイント-1 ポイント 前

http://www.reddit.com/r/mwo/comments/23at8a/what_the_heck_is_going_on/cgvif43

GREAT example where one of your own mods tells how "fun" it is to come over here, "take the gloves off" and troll.

[–]Ed_Elrich -4 ポイント-3 ポイント 前

Tell that to Bill.

He seems to be doing the opposite

[–]Blakist -2 ポイント-1 ポイント 前

This never happens at /r/wordofblake , it reminds me of the fight scene in both Ron Burgundy movies. That makes me Spanish television bitches.

[–]spajn -2 ポイント-1 ポイント 前

russ should get sued and taken into court for lying to potential customers about his product.

[–]WoL-MintFrogWord of Lowtax 5 ポイント6 ポイント 前

Once you see the video from the horribly uncomfortable launch party, it's pretty obvious do anyone with two braincells to rub together that they lied about CW coming soon in order to drum up more Overlord Pack sales.

[–]Ed_Elrich 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

http://www.twitch.tv/igp/b/465216210

Here as requested

[–]VictorMorson 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

People need to stop talking law suits; they've not really anything that could qualify, given they were very smart and processed Phoenix refunds right up until the zero hour. If they hadn't, then people might have had a tiny class action money-back thing.

But seriously, it's stupid. The only people that might have actual cause to sue PGI is Microsoft, or possibly the Canadian Government, depending on their respective agreements with PGI.

ED: To clarify what I mean is if Russ told Microsoft the same lies and that's how he won the contract to 2018, then Microsoft has every opportunity to sue them into the ground. But individual players should just stop already.

[–]spajn 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

errh what? You know customers are highly protected by the law in cases of the salesman outright lying about their product?

[–]Ed_Elrich 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

You know that suing over a video game would make you insane, right?

[–]spajn -1 ポイント0 ポイント 前

people have sued mcdonalds for burned themselves on their hot coffee and won

[–]Ed_Elrich 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

Suing over third degree burns =/= bad video game...

If you cant tell that to start with you shouldnt be playing them. Ppl who cant tell real life from a video game are scary

[–]Rvannith 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

So much this. If a salesman offers to sell you a Ferrari with all the extras and you end up with a box of useless leather seats and a pimped out stereo (founder's/phoenix mechs) and and lack the actual car itself (Community Warfare) that you actually paid up for, yeah, there are actually consumer protection laws in place.

[–]VictorMorson 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

This is a little like sueing Uwe Boll because you really thought House of the Dead would be great, after he assured you it would be.

AKA utterly impossible and pointless.

That said, doesn't stop people from letting reputation do it's job. At this point the best outcome would be that saying Russ or Paul's name would spark a similar reaction out of people.

[–]Rvannith 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

Uwe Boll should totally direct a live-action Battletech movie.

[–]spajn -1 ポイント0 ポイント 前

there is a differerence between a salesmen promising the car is great and then its not, and a salesmen promising a fully functional car 90 days after purchase and 2 years later it still has not a engine aka not functional.

[–]Ed_Elrich 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

Theres a difference between buying a car and buying into a video game in early beta

[–]Ed_Elrich 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

Theres a group trying that lol

[–]Ed_Elrich -3 ポイント-2 ポイント 前

What the title made me think of (it just came on the radio)

http://youtu.be/gp5JCrSXkJY