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17-year-old accepted to all 8 Ivy League colleges (usatoday.com)

UncleSamGamgeeによる前の投稿

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[–]Hairlesswalkingchimp 259 ポイント260 ポイント 前

I'm gonna get real with you reddit, no matter how pissed this makes you it doesn't change the fact that he would not have had this absurd success if he was a white kid.

[–]Kinseyincanada -12 ポイント-11 ポイント 前

Yea white people have it so hard when it comes to getting into college. That's why they are such a minority in secondary education!

[–]sadmoviedave 8 ポイント9 ポイント 前

what's most ironic is that reddit is home to a lot of progressive/liberal-minded people, yet they get butthurt when they think something was "taken from them" vis a vis affirmative action.

interestingly enough, studies have shown that despite getting accepted into elite institutions, minorities most often matriculate to the institution that provides the most aid--regardless of reputation.

EDIT: grammar

[–]jonesrr 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

I don't think people think it's "taken from them" at least I never did, just that there are much more qualified people who didn't get into that spot due to race alone. I cannot imagine a more superficial way to judge someone.

[–]sadmoviedave -2 ポイント-1 ポイント 前

your perception is fair, but i implore you to look at the merits affirmative action has on social mobility. providing opportunity to historically marginalized social groups results in positive socio-economic returns that benefit our society as a whole.

suffice it to say, it's more macro than micro.

[–]jonesrr 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

Studies have not shown this to be an effective policy at all, at best it's of unproven effectiveness. Black male graduation rates actually dropped significantly in the 1990s to below their pre-Affirmative days, and are now just back up to the same levels as the 1980s. This is in a time when overall college graduation rates have gone through the roof for all other groups.: http://www.jbhe.com/latest/additional_items/gradratebygenderchart.gif

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/08/college-grad-rates.png

Compared to whites and asians, the gap continues to majorly widen between SAT and ACT scores with those of blacks: http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html

This should be deeply concerning, since these are objective and real signs that actually improving what black children are learning in school is not getting better, and may actually be falling. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Myld998sNf0/UmjCOUAXHkI/AAAAAAAAA6w/vTAKdL__uLk/s1600/sat-act+race.png

All ground was made up in the mid 80s, and it's clear that new policies are likely needed than the status quo of giving more to them than what's given to the equally intelligent white or asian student: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-c5iJYDF4wXk/T5eTOLuW8AI/AAAAAAAAAbc/tva9PPBhPGA/s1600/sat%2Bbw%2Braw.png

[–]sadmoviedave 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

i respect you digging up some graphs and laying down an argument but, let's address a few things here:

male graduation rates are much lower compared to women as a whole--regardless of race. believe it or not, there is talk now of creating resources to keep men in college--again--regardless of race. anyway, your graphs show 13% and 8% growth, respectively, over the course of 16 years. not too bad. noting the hiccup in-between there can be attributed to a number of things: the dot-com bubble, the wars in afgahnistan and iraq, etc. saying it fell for a few years, but ultimately made gains, doesn't really mean anything. also, graduation rates have not gone through the roof. the universal drop-out rate is around 50% and only 33% of millennials have a BA.

as for your graph on test scores, this comes down to opportunity and resources. more often, asians and whites live in higher-priced areas that in turn, lead to higher funded secondary schools. having a more rigorous high school curriculum and SAT prep options are most certainly an advantage. what's most fascinating about this is that blacks and latinos are well aware of how their "people" score on these exams. in a recent study, when blacks and latinos were told they were taking a college entrance exam, they received similar scores to the ones evidenced by your chart. however, when told it was an ordinary test, the kids kicked ass at it. this has become known as "stereotype threat." many people are getting funded a lot of money to figure out how to dismantle this phenomena.

also, your point about, what black children are learning in [secondary] school. i mentioned earlier about inequitable resources. that's a real problem. but what i believe to be a bigger problem are the teachers. not in that they're not qualified, but that black students have trouble identifying with them. black teachers are few and far between. too little of them teach in heavily populated black areas, and most of them are women. of all black teachers, only 2% of them are men. while not grounded in any kind of data, i personally think a black kid in oakland would be more engaged if he was taught by a TFA black guy than a TFA white dude.

all ground was made up in the mid 80s.

i see how you were trying to make a cogent argument with that. but that statement is wrong in a lot of ways. i really respect you taking time to argue with me in a polite way.

[–]jonesrr 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

No, the US spends more even on inner city kids per student than Canada does on average. It's a shockingly bad excuse for poor administration, standards, and planning by the Dept of Education: http://rossieronline.usc.edu/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/

The inequity of resources could be a contributing factor, but it's not even close to the cause.

You'd need more than anecdotal evidence to dismiss wide-scale multi-generational testing demonstrating poor results and the fact that the US, at large, ranks below Russia (who spends about 1/4th what the US does per capita on school).

[–]sadmoviedave 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

dude. the US federal government spends more on all students. back to my point, the highest form of funding for secondary schools comes from the states--namely through property taxes. if you live in a more affluent area, you're going to have a more premier secondary school experience. FACT.

now, you wanna talk about inner city school funding? take a look at philadelphia. they spend more money incarcerating their youth than they do educating them ($10K vs. $11K). on top of that, they're shutting down public schools left and right in order to balance their budget.

You'd need more than anecdotal evidence to dismiss wide-scale multi-generational testing demonstrating poor results.

are you implying whites and asians are inherently better test-takers than blacks?

[–]jonesrr 2 ポイント3 ポイント 前

$10k is more than the government spends in Toronto to teach a student, which is my point. The US spends a shitload of money on K-12 education and fails miserably at achievement in math and verbal skills. We're hanging out with 2nd world countries, while the world blows past us. This has been ok for a long time due to our huge size and economic power to exert favorable trade and policies against our smaller, but smarter, allies. China is what will break this, however, and is already starting to.

I'm implying that black children are not getting help at home, and we need a lot stronger educational system with very high mathematics standards to fix this not affirmative action, when it's far too late to fix anything. However, we also need this across the board, for whites as well.

[–]Ajmb_88 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント 前

And you know this as fact? Everyone in this tread bring up race but why don't you bring up an example of someone with the same credentials, who's white, applied to all the same schools and still didn't get accepted.

[–]jonesrr 3 ポイント4 ポイント 前

DId you even bother going to the most recent thread at college confidential posted above for harvard acceptances?

URMs had way lower scores than everyone else accepted counting every single posted score for Harvard. Many people with 2350-2400 SATs and multiple varsity sports were rejected if white or asian. I'm sure most of these people will not get accepted to Yale or Princeton either.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1586643-official-harvard-university-2018-scea-decisions-only.html

[–][deleted] 前

[deleted]

    [–]sadmoviedave 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

    reddit is home to a lot of progressive/liberal-minded people

    nice to meet you. i see you can communicate with vulgarities. congratulations.

    [–]Hairlesswalkingchimp -3 ポイント-2 ポイント 前

    I like how you use a character attack as a substitute for refuting my argument, because you have nothing else.

    [–]sadmoviedave 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

    I re-stated my words, saying, "reddit is home to a lot of progressive/liberal-minded people." note the use of a lot. i avoided using the word all as i respect the existence of such articulate, civil-mannered conservative redditors such as yourself.

    Fuckface I am not a liberal just because I have a reddit account, speak for your fucking self.

    Now, where's the argument in this sentence. Literally, what is to be argued?

    [–]MountagueViderbottom 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

    You could argue his liberal use of profanities makes him a liberal. There's always an argument to be made, you just have to reach beyond the rational.

    [–]franciumcaesium 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

    It's spelled vis à vis.

    [–]jianadaren1 0 ポイント1 ポイント 前

    Post-Secondary and actually white men are underrepresented by population.

    White women and Asians are substantially overrepresented and that skews it.

    [–]jonesrr 1 ポイント2 ポイント 前

    That's like saying the Norwegians should have their trust fund plundered by African nations because they've never had a hard time being fiscally responsible.