Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Forum

rickozz

Member

RADICAL method to study Kanji

You know how Kanji study books are usually sorted by grade.  A friend of mine introduced me to a new approach to studying Kanji in which the Kanji are sorted by radicals.  A great book is KanjiABC, and a great app that uses a similar approach is called Kanji Pivot. I think that multi-radical approach is actually faster than using any other mehod to find a kanji. All of the kanji are presorted by their radicals.  And once you choose any kanji and notice another radical within the same character, you can easily PIVOT and the kanji are then sorted by the other radical within that kanji.  I find that I no longer confuse similar looking kanji since i use this method.  It's on my girlfriends iPad.  I think it's called Kanji Pivot or KanjiPivot.  Anyway, when I get an iPad, it will be the first app that I download. 

Example  働 Hataraku is originally sorted in the ninbin 亻 radical group, however when you pivot it, you can see that it also has a Pivot Radical in common with four other kanji namely that they share the 重 pivot radical. Kanji Pivot just finds it and sorts it either way in seconds, and allows your brain to mind map Kanji make the connections, it's an effortless learning process :

働    亻
任    亻
件    亻
作    亻
候    亻

働    亻
重    里
動    力
種    禾

jenl

Member

Re: RADICAL method to study Kanji

Note to all people trying to sell their apps: it's really obvious that someone whose first post and only post (on more than one forum, even!) is about this wonderful thing they just happened to stumble across (but know quite a few details about) is not being honest about their relationship to the company/product mentioned.

Minor nitpick: 人偏 is not read 'ninbin'.
                             
More serious note: the use of the other components (particularly those which are phonetic components) of kanji is certainly a useful way of thinking about kanji but you need neither a special book nor a special app to do so; a good basic understanding of how kanji are constructed is sufficient (different radical locations, where the phonetic components usually sit, how native speakers describe kanji - e.g. 人偏にうごく). Personally on that side of things I'd suggest Japanese-style kanji drills like the 漢検 study materials - it doesn't need to be the official ones - which you can find for various platforms including smartphones, things like the DS or just PDFs to print out. It's not that difficult to find materials for free (particularly the PDFs).  These test you on reading and writing in context and encourage vocab expansion.

(huh, I never thought of 重 as having 里 in it, because of the way the vertical stroke is drawn).

rickozz

Member

Re: RADICAL method to study Kanji

Note to all people trying to show off their command of Japanese, double check the facts before you post them.  First of all, 人偏の読み方はにんべん 人べん とも書く（名詞）(e.g. left side of 化) kanji "person radical" (radical 9)。Second, check any Kanji dictionary and you will find that the radical for 重 is 里。Effectiveness is the measure of truth, so if you want to have the same flawed understanding of radicals as the poster above, then use the same materials that Jenl suggests.   However, if you want to have a 間違い無い command of radicals and kanji then I suggest Kanji ABC and KanjiPivot.   For the record, I have zero connection to the authors of the book nor the programmers of the app.  This is just the first of many more posts to come in which I will share tips and strategys to study this language.
PEACE

Last edited by rickozz (2013-01-17 17:15:33)

blutorange

Member

Re: RADICAL method to study Kanji

double check the facts before you post them.  First of all, 人偏の読み方はにんべん 人べん とも書く（名詞）

Example  働 Hataraku is originally sorted in the ninbin 亻 radical group,

Most likely just a spelling mistake, which is why it was called "minor":

Minor nitpick: 人偏 is not read 'ninbin'.

Second, check any Kanji dictionary and you will find that the radical for 重 is 里。

Yes, however, the statement

(huh, I never thought of 重 as having 里 in it, because of the way the vertical stroke is drawn).

merely expresses one's surprise about a certain fact (including the reason why one would feel this way) -- it does not deny that certain fact.

More serious note: the use of the other components (particularly those which are phonetic components) of kanji is certainly a useful way of thinking about kanji but you need neither a special book nor a special app to do so; a good basic understanding of how kanji are constructed is sufficient

I share this opinion. Also, reading up on the etymology of kanji and understanding how all the individual parts work together is imo more helpful than remembering which of these parts was was raised to the status "radical" quite some time ago.

PEACE

Yes, please.

Last edited by blutorange (2013-01-17 18:38:38)

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研究為可し。即、一旦事典に参照して猶、確信せざる儘、観よ。 Keep your eyes and mind open. richarddawkinsfoundation.org

Lyrencropt

Member

Re: RADICAL method to study Kanji

Note to all people trying to show off their command of Japanese, double check the facts before you post them.  First of all, 人偏の読み方はにんべん 人べん とも書く（名詞）(e.g. left side of 化) kanji "person radical" (radical 9)。Second, check any Kanji dictionary and you will find that the radical for 重 is 里。Effectiveness is the measure of truth, so if you want to have the same flawed understanding of radicals as the poster above, then use the same materials that Jenl suggests.   However, if you want to have a 間違い無い command of radicals and kanji then I suggest Kanji ABC and KanjiPivot.   For the record, I have zero connection to the authors of the book nor the programmers of the app.  This is just the first of many more posts to come in which I will share tips and strategys to study this language.
PEACE

You're getting way too defensive for anyone to actually believe you. Neither of the complaints you leveled against blutorange are valid, as they stated in the post above me.

This is just the first of many more posts to come in which I will share tips and strategys to study this language.

If this doesn't just scream "viral marketing" I don't know what does.

rickozz

Member

Re: RADICAL method to study Kanji

Back to the actual topic of this thread.  I utilize my books and media to study the actual 部首 that are used in Modern Japan.  The radical method allows me to pivot to another perspective that leads to a stronger understanding.

働 (work) has the 亻(person) radical. 
The pivot radical for this character is 重 (heavy).
重 (heavy) with 力(power) leads to 動 (movement).
that 動 (movement) with 亻 (person) with creates 働 (work) .
Plus, 重 (heavy)’s radical is 里

In any dictionary these have different standard radicals but I use their pivot radicals to mind-map their meanings:

準    氵
推    手；扌
進    辶
集    隹

This is a method that works for me, and that's why I created this tread for others who may find this information useful.  If you have another method that you prefer, feel free to create your own thread.

v_andal

Member

Re: RADICAL method to study Kanji

Then maybe you'll be interested in the book Remembering the Kanji written by James W. Heisig. The approach described in that book is not much different from yours. Well, the terminology might be different

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Minds, like parachutes, function best when open

jenl

Member

Re: RADICAL method to study Kanji

For the record, I have zero connection to the authors of the book nor the programmers of the app.

I have no doubt you're not connected to the authors of the book.  But when you write a post that reads like marketing gumph and I don't think it's above board, I'm going to say so.  The app was released on Jan 7 - and it's supposedly only installed on your girlfriend's iPad - you think that's long enough to have a serious understanding of how good a bit of learning material is?

Since I don't use a paper kanji dictionary (and when do you need to look up something like 重, anyway?), I'd like to know how not knowing 里 was the radical is going to hinder me in any way - it hasn't yet. 漢検 does test radicals but it's the sort of info you forget quickly because it's not of day to day use.   I don't think it's that revolutionary to realise that 働 has  動 on right (and they have the same on-reading), or that 液 is さんずいに夜 (whether or not you use the actual radical names or not).

D-G

Member

Re: RADICAL method to study Kanji

Kanji ABC, Remembering the Kanji, and other similar books are quite useless. The methods they present come by way of intuition to everyone who strives to learn Japanese. You don't need to know about radicals, you don't need to know about quasi-etymology by way of made-up stories. The only thing to these books' credit is this: they instill fear by suggesting that kanji are oh so hard to learn and only the methods laid out in these books can help save the learner from the pits of eternal kanji hell. Let's pray to the great Kanji Gods, so they be merciful!

In any dictionary these have different standard radicals but I use their pivot radicals to mind-map their meanings:

That's quite amazing, but I doubt someone would not notice that 準, 推, 進 and 集 share a component.

Regarding this KanjiPivot drivel: according to its website only the Grade 1-6 kanji are included. And besides the traditional radical there is merely one (!) additional pivot radical per kanji. Did I miss something? With the multi-radical approach employed by any free dictionary based on the free kanjidic and the equally free multi-radical data I can search for kanji by many more components per kanji. For example, the kanji 辞 is 'broken down' into these components in kanjidic: 十 口 立 舌 辛. The superiority of this approach is evident.

Last edited by D-G (2013-01-19 10:39:01)