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Brian in Jeollanam-do - A blog on Korean news, culture, education, and events.

Sunday, February 14, 2010

Updated: Koreans hating Apolo Anton Ohno again; media intentionally misrepresenting his post-race comments?

Ohno skating with the American flag after finishing 2nd in Saturday's 1,500-meter short-track final, in a picture on a Korean news site. He lost by .123 seconds, and was given the flag after his coach thought he won.

It was quite the turn of events *cough* in the men's 1,500-meter short-track final, as three Korean skaters were in the lead until the second and third wiped out on the final bend, allowing two Americans to earn the silver and bronze. One of the winners was Apolo Anton Ohno, a man for whom Koreans have shown an intense hatred usually reserved for American beef and the Japanese. Here's the story tonight, from the Korea Times:

Exhilarated Ohno revealed in an interview after the awarding ceremony that he was actually hoping that there was disqualification of the other athletes who were racing ahead of him ? all three South Korean athletes, according to Yonhap News Agency, which cited the interview transcripts posted on “INFO 2010,” a web site managed by the winter sports organizing committee.

Though you'll find a ton of articles mentioning "INFO 2010" in Korean, nothing has turned up in English. About the only thing are comments in the story on the official Vancouver Olympics website, which wraps up with:

"I was expecting more disqualifcations from the race. It was a crazy first race but it turned out well," added Ohno, who won his first Olympic title in the same event in 2002.

Not nearly the same as "hoping that there was disqualification of the other athletes who were racing ahead of him," as the Times and Yonhap report.

In 2002's 1,500-meter race, Ohno won the gold medal after a Korean skater was disqualified for "blocking." South Korea protested the decision, Koreans flooded the United States Olympic Committee webpage with emails, and Ohno received death threats. From Sports Illustrated coverage eight years ago:

[T]he U.S. Olympic Committee revealed Thursday that Ohno received threatening e-mails after his first race, when he crashed to a silver in the 1,000. The threats were turned over to the FBI for investigation.

Another 16,000 e-mails regarding Ohno, mostly from South Korea, crashed the USOC's Internet server early Thursday, spokesman Mike Moran said. It took more than nine hours to restore service.

His profile page on the Vancouver Olympics page says he withdrew from an event in Korea in 2003 as a result of death threats. From the USA Today on November 22, 2003:

"It has become obvious to myself and those that I trust, that my security cannot be guaranteed," Ohno said in a statement. "It is unfortunate that a few people feel the need to make death threats against me."

A Nov. 12 report in The Korea Times called Ohno the country's "most-hated athlete" and "a touchstone for anti-American sentiment."

According to the newspaper, protesters chanted Ohno's name after a U.S. court-martial's acquittal of two servicemen who manned a vehicle that killed two schoolgirls in June 2002.

In his statement, Ohno called himself "an athlete, not a politician."

Today Korean cyberspace is after Ohno again, unsurprisingly. From a Korea Times article titled "Oh No. It's Ohno Again.":

Apolo Ohno, the most decorated American short-track speed skater in Winter Olympic history, may also solidify his reputation as the most “ungentlemanly sportsman” in South Korea.

While his pictures showed up on the front pages of a handful of U.S. newspapers, he may not know that his name was on the front pages of the most, if not all, South Korean newspapers on the same day.

In America, he is famous. In South Korea he is notorious.

Lee Jung-su, the South Korean gold winner at the men's 1,500-meter short-track, accused Ohno of being “unqualified” to share the same awarding podium, publicly criticizing Ohno’s rough play that was reportedly often done in a subtle manner and therefore went unnoticed in the eyes of the referees.

“Ohno didn’t deserve to stand on the same medal podium,” Lee said, Yonhap News Agency reported.

Lee was commenting on the manner Ohno played in the same match where the latter earned the silver by windfall when two other South Korean gold favorites -- Sung Si-bak and Lee Ho-suk -- crashed into each other in their final stretch toward the finish. Ohno was trailing behind them.

“Okay, it’s technically not a foul play as long as the referees didn’t notice. But (Ohno) used his arms too aggressively today.”

Lee fumed: “I was so enraged that it was difficult for me to contain myself even as I was doing a winner’s ceremony.”

The next line is

Among South Koreans, Ohno’s name is synonymous to an “ungentlemanly athlete” with a good reason.

as the article continues by recapping 2002's events. A second article, the one quoted in the first paragraph, titled "Ohno's Comment Upsets South Koreans" appeared on the Times site tonight as well.

For South Koreans, the name Apolo Anton Ohno doesn’t ring the most pleasant memories. And Ohno made a comment that made South Koreans bristle.

Ohno won a silver medal at the men's 1,500-meter short-track final at the Winter Olympics on Saturday in local time in Vancouver as two South Korean gold favorites -- Sung Si-bak and Lee Ho-suk -- crashed into each other in their final stretch toward the finish.

The incident made Ohno, who was trailing behind them, grab the silver medal.

Ohno’s rough manner of playing the match, pointed out by South Korean short track skater Lee Jung-soo, who won the gold in the same event, incensed Koreans.

But what earned him notoriety was a comment he made after the game.

Exhilarated Ohno revealed in an interview after the awarding ceremony that he was actually hoping that there was disqualification of the other athletes who were racing ahead of him ? all three South Korean athletes, according to Yonhap News Agency, which cited the interview transcripts posted on “INFO 2010,” a web site managed by the winter sports organizing committee.

His comment was a vivid reminder for South Koreans who haven’t forgotten what had happened in the 2002 Winter Olympics held at Salt Lake City.

At the 2002 Winter Olympics, in the same 1500m race, Ohno won the gold medal, even though South Korean Kim Dong-Sung was first across the finish line, but was disqualified for “blocking” Ohno.

Many South Koreans who watched the game on the television couldn’t believe their eyes. Some athletes in the match also pointed out the unfairness of the judgment by the referees.

Many South Korean sports fans took an issue with Ohno’s opportunistic comment on Saturday, with many Internet forums in ablaze with angry comments.

The New York Times said: “Apolo Ohno, the precocious teenage skater at the Salt Lake Games, has officially grown up. He sees himself as more of an ambassador these days ? for this area, for his family, for his country and for history.”

Few South Koreans find an ambassadorial material in him.

Both articles are unsigned, as has been increasingly common in the Korea Times.

Koreans are into short-track because their skaters have done so well, but it's foolish to assume that they don't love to hate Ohno and don't enjoy the drama he brings to the races. It's likewise ironic to hear Korean athletes and fans complaining about poor sportsmanship considering the displays that often follow major sporting events that don't go the home team's way.

Update [2/20/2010, 12:11]: As per a lengthy post on Monster Island suggesting I take a second look at this post and the idea that the Korea Times is fabricating quotations, I'll include something from the Washington Post commenter kushibo, of Monster Island, posted earlier in the week:

"At the end of the race I was hoping for another disqualification kind of like what happened in Salt Lake City."

Kushibo wrote on his post:

Since that particular item was a big part of the overall theme of the post that the Korean media is engineering anti-Ohno sentiment, that mistake should be corrected and/or addressed in some way, methinks.

My point, and this is something I brought up in my comment section around #120 or so, is that the Korea Times was reporting on a quotation that it didn't include, from a source that didn't exist. Search for "INFO 2010" and indeed, nothing in English turns up. The story on the official Vancouver Olympics site is rather different in content and tone from what the Korea Times would have you believe. The Korea Times is not a well-regarded newspaper among English speakers in Korea, but because it's one of the few English-language sources in the country it needs to be addressed on this site from time to time. The two articles it included atop its website, articles focusing on Ohno's sportsmanship even after the Korean skater had won the gold, indicates that it did indeed place a priority on making him look bad and stirring up trouble. Even in spite of the Washington Post article---and other places where that has turned up---I stand by the assertion that the local media is out to create drama and to stir up anti-Ohno hatred once again. That said, I've edited the title slightly by putting a question mark in the headline, a question mark that was actually there in the first place. You can come to your own conclusions regarding the media's handling of Ohno and his comments.

Posted by Brian at 11:15 PM

Labels: Lost in Translation, Sports

169 comments:

Puffin Watch said...: I find it amazing, when the 2002 Korean skater found out he was disqualified, he tossed his Korean flag to the ground in anger. Holy crap. He was proud to wave it in perceived victory but when his skill cost him a gold, he dishonored his nation by tossing his nation's flag to the ground?

I think if Ohno had done that, Americans would not waste ire on the Korean victor. They'd criticize the HELL out of Ohno for not only extremely poor sportsmanship but for dishonoring his nation's flag.; February 15, 2010 12:14 AM
Flint said...: Is any non-Korean surprised by the Korean reaction? No.; February 15, 2010 12:19 AM
Matt said...: What troubled me was that the INFO 2010 article failed to include a single direct quote from Ohno. How could his comments be left out of an article about his "troubling comments"? This deserves the "shoddy journalism" tag.

I wonder how much this has to do with Ohno being a Japanese American? If he were a white kid from Tulsa Koreans probably wouldn't scream quite as loud.; February 15, 2010 1:30 AM
Sejin said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 15, 2010 1:34 AM
This Is Me Posting said...: Why am I not fucking surprised?

Best part is that Ohno didn't even touch them when they crashed. The South Korean skaters did this to themselves.

This is a moment where nothing else applies but a label of "fucking idiot" toward whomever wrote that bullshit article.

Lastly, South Koreans are THE LAST people in the world that can EVER talk about sportsmanship. They don't even know what the meaning of the terms "sportsmanlike conduct" is.

I'm still upset at their blatant cheating in the 2002 World Cup.

Most dishonourable nation ever.; February 15, 2010 2:23 AM
This Is Me Posting said...: *term; February 15, 2010 2:25 AM
kushibo said...: "I was expecting more disqualifcations from the race. It was a crazy first race but it turned out well," added Ohno, who won his first Olympic title in the same event in 2002.
Not nearly the same as "hoping that there was disqualification of the other athletes who were racing ahead of him," as the Times and Yonhap report.

The Washington Post quotes him as saying, "At the end of the race I was hoping for another disqualification kind of like what happened in Salt Lake City."

I don't think Yonhap or the KT were misreporting or reporting out of context. The headlind in the WaPo is "Ohno again cashes in on Korean misfortune."; February 15, 2010 2:45 AM
Chris said...: Koreans haves no right to demonize him. Not in 2002 or now. He didn't do anything either time.

Be grown up about it Koreans and own up for someting that was no ones fault but your own for once instead of blaming others.

I was happy about what happened.; February 15, 2010 3:02 AM
Chris said...: In fact, when I saw the Koreans spill, I cheered!; February 15, 2010 3:04 AM
Lee said...: There appeared to be a lot of contact between Ohno and the Koreans a few seconds before that spill. It looked like to me that Ohno might have been "blocked" again.

Ohno does strike me as someone who's more exbuerant than he needs to be.; February 15, 2010 3:43 AM
asadalthought said...: There's a lot more to this than meets the eye. I think a lot of Koreans have a completely different view of this. The two guys who crashed hate each other. It's something to do with their universities, and their coaches and some rubbish like that. It's not the first time something like this has happened, one of them has been hit by the coach of the other before, there have been threats, bribes and the father of one sued one of the coaches before as well, as far as I can gather. Their part of the same ROK team obviously, but they only compete with each other. As people said, they brought it on themselves this time, but I think it's a lot more than just an accidental crash. Idiots, basically, but the Koreans I've spoken to about it don't care about the American coming up good because of their mistakes, they just think the whole infighting and whatever is ridiculous and is costing them.; February 15, 2010 4:26 AM
asadalthought said...: Oh, what I meant to add to that was that I would wager that the Korea Times doesn't want foreigners to see how stupid and ridiculous the Korean short track team is, and the pathetic stuff they get up to away from competing, so they cover it with a hastily thrown together piece about an evil American. Pathetic journalism, and yet another reason to just avoid the Times like the plague.; February 15, 2010 4:28 AM
Bob said...: You guys totally misunderstood. First of all, everyone knows Ohno cheated in 2002. Secondly, who would'nt throw down their flag in anger when something shady like that happens? Third, in vancouver, the korean who was in third place tried to take the silver medal so he rushed in front of the korean in second place and ended up crashing into each other. In any perons neutral point of view, it was an unsportsman-like conduct for the korean in 2002 to throw down his flag. At the same time it was a very unsportsman-like action for Ohno with his comment with the press and also by making it seem like he won the medals with his skills. Anyone who takes a medal by cheating or by someone elses mistakes does not deserve to celebrate as if it was THEIR victory. Only people who should celebrate is the country of whom that person represents.; February 15, 2010 5:36 AM
Lancity said...: If I were Ohno, at the press conference afterwards I would say "Did you know Japan invented kimchi?" then throw down the mic and moonwalk off the stage. If they're going bellyache, might as well give them a good reason.; February 15, 2010 5:54 AM
Puffin Watch said...: Secondly, who would'nt throw down their flag in anger when something shady like that happens?

I would not. I would maintain my dignity and respect for the nation that sent me there.; February 15, 2010 7:44 AM
Lee said...: Bob, how did Ohno cheat? It was an Italian judge who disqualifed the Korean skater. The replays that I saw revealed the Korean skater blocking Ohno.

Ohno lost what appeared to be a sure gold in an earlier race when another Korean skater crashed around him. Some guy from Australia ended up winning the race. I don't remember him moping and spinning conspircay theories to the media afterwards.

Not even Barry Bonds receives death threats and national internet hate campaigns, and he's a known cheater. Thanks in large to the Koreans, Ohno will be remembered more distinctly than your average obscure winter olympian.; February 15, 2010 8:20 AM
kushibo said...: Lee wrote:
Not even Barry Bonds receives death threats and national internet hate campaigns, and he's a known cheater.

Barry Bonds does receive death threats.

Thanks in large to the Koreans, Ohno will be remembered more distinctly than your average obscure winter olympian.

Ohno being remembered more distinctly will have little to do with "the Koreans."

The guy's a star, all over the place in the US, even selected to be on Dancing With the Stars, from criminy sake. He's big because he wins medals and he has a charming bad boy image. Nothing to do with Korea.; February 15, 2010 8:40 AM
Chris said...: Hmm....; February 15, 2010 9:11 AM
Douglas said...: Am I the only one here who doesn't give a shit about short track speed skating? I mean really. How can anyone get excited about a "sport" that seems to be the bastard child of roller derby and figure skating? At least in other "sports" that I hold in low esteem, like figure skating, there is some t & a to watch. Short track? Only nationalistic Koreans, who otherwise have no interest in sports, getting their panties in a twist over nothing. Which I guess does have some redeeming qualities, but nothing to do with athletic competition.; February 15, 2010 9:18 AM
Chris said...: It seems that Koreans need someone to blame for their failures, so Ohno gets it.

He's part Japanese and he's an American. Perfect for Koreans to hate.

Can we expect anything less? History has shown that we can not and not just with this. Despite video evidence that Ohno did nothing wrong, many Koreans continue to blame him. Why? Are they psycho?

Bloody pathetic, what's next a bomb threat like in '06.

It was a fair loss, they should blame themselves instead of others.

Is their whole society centered around greed and saving face? I hope not, but I don't know anymore.; February 15, 2010 9:21 AM
kushibo said...: It seems that Koreans need someone to blame for their failures, so Ohno gets it.

The Netizens seem to be blaming 이호석 mostly.

And might I repeat that the "hoping for a disqualification" line came straight out of the Western media (Reuters, carried by American news outlets). I'm no fan of the Korean media as an institution, but I'm not sure why reporting that particular comment represents a particular animus of the Korean media or Korea in general.; February 15, 2010 9:35 AM
brent said...: I re-watched the 2002 race about a week ago. My thoughts on it are that the Korean skater did nothing intentional to block. However, he should still have been disqualified. If you watch the whole race, just keep watching how the Korean racer uses his arm. He's very consistent until it makes contact with Ohno. It threw him off his rythm and he left his arm out there at his side. His arm movement became inconsistent with the way it had been, making it an easy call to disqualify. In conclusion, he accidentally fucked up and had to pay the price for it.; February 15, 2010 9:36 AM
jinu said...: never mind about all the comments.
America can be better off without Ohno.; February 15, 2010 10:38 AM
Chris said...: Jinu's comment is the bullshit I'm talking about. How do you know who America would be better off with or without? He won and Koreans who crap on him and anyone else should move on and quit talking like a bunch of psycho's. Get over yourselves.

So what if he "wished" for another DQ, that doesn't excuse people from acting crazy, whether it's about him or anyone else.

Considering how many Koreans, and the Korean media acted last time in '02 and then the bomb threats in '06, don't expect foreigners to "understand" and react any differently than the way they are now.

Maybe if Koreans didn't act that way to begin with, people wouldn't react the way they do. Especially since the last time when almost every student I had said they hated Americans, not America, Americans!

If I had a bunch of assholes make death threats against me after I did nothing wrong, I'd probably take a few jabs at someone too...if THAT'S what was done or intended.

Don't ask us to understand when Koreans are the ones who acted badly in the first place. Koreans brought this on themselves by behaving badly in the past.

When people still talk shit despite proof that there was no wrongdoing, that's plain wrong even if Ohno did make a wish. There are absolutely no excusses for acting psychotic-none.; February 15, 2010 12:10 PM
kushibo said...: Ohno skating with the American flag after finishing 2nd in Saturday's 1,500-meter short-track final, in a picture on a Korean news site. He lost by .123 seconds, and was given the flag after his coach thought he won.

I guess I missed this before. While it could be an innocent mistake, it's a bit tacky for the coach to do that without checking to see who the winner was first. I'm surprised the Canadians aren't upset about that. (And since they haven't won any medals, they're going to get upset about something.) ;); February 15, 2010 12:52 PM
Jeffry said...: I'm from the US, and I could care less if the Koreans or Ohno won. Why does it matter what country an athlete comes from? Personally, I am disgusted of unsportsmanlike comments against Korea from World Cup 2002 and yes, CERTAIN Koreans are taking it too far with the Ohno comments since the SLC Olympics. I personally dislike Ohno's arrogance and believe that something was wrong from the SLC Olympics but DO NOT call every Korean in lacking in sportsmanship. I hold the individual accountable and believe that Ohno did not do anything with malice but it was a bad call on part of the judges. It is a fallacy to believe that what applies to a certain few belongs to all.; February 15, 2010 1:20 PM
This Is Me Posting said...: @jinu

Never mind about all the comments.
Korea can be better off without Kim Yu-Na.

@brent

I have to disagree. In the race, you can clearly see Kim Dong-Sung moving away from Ohno, then move into him to block the pass which you're not allowed to do. The idea of speed skating is that you have to let a passing skater pass and its up to you to RE-pass him if you have enough track, which Kim Dong-Sung knew he didn't have. So he blocked him WELL before he had to lean in for the turn. Its couldn't be more clear that he was DQed, especially since he blocked another skater at the beginning of the race around the third or fourth turn (0:38).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z-obyjzj5g

@Kushibo

And by "they haven't won any medals", what you really meant to say was "won one of each so far, including a silver on the first day," right? Yeah, I thought that's what you meant to say.; February 15, 2010 1:30 PM
kushibo said...: This Is Me Posting wrote:
nd by "they haven't won any medals", what you really meant to say was "won one of each so far, including a silver on the first day," right? Yeah, I thought that's what you meant to say.

Well, it is now.

Seriously, though, that was what they were saying the last time I'd checked. NPR made a point of saying it several times.

I did leave a winky, and the truth is I hope Canada kicks ass in the medal count. Seriously, kick some ass.

The opening ceremony has already got the US freaked out that a bunch of people they thought were Americans are actually Canadian, so now's the time to also wow them on the ice. It might also get Canadians excited about the games being there.; February 15, 2010 1:37 PM
kushibo said...: Now here is some unsportsmanlike conduct to gripe about.; February 15, 2010 1:38 PM
kushibo said...: The no-medals-yet link I put up wasn't the one I meant to do. Actually, I'm having trouble finding what I'd heard, not read, and this is the closest I could find.; February 15, 2010 1:44 PM
This Is Me Posting said...: @Jeffry

- The Koreans cheated in World Cup 2002 versus Spain and Italy. Bought refs called one sided games against both Spain and Italy included 2 legitimate goals being pulled back against Spain. It was blatant and not a single football playing nation respected Korea after that.

Did you really think Korea had the skill to beat the Italians and the Spaniards in FOOTBALL? Please. Give me a break.

- The Korean baseball team was ridiculously disrespectful in both World Baseball Championships, including planting flags on foreign soil which should NOT have happened:

http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2009/03/korea-beats-japan-4-1-only-plants.html

- Kim Yu-Na whines about Japanese skaters targeting her in practises. Cries like a little bitch on national TV.

- Koreans target Ohno with death threats because he beats a Korean skater to the point that he can't participate in an international competition in South Korea.

No matter which way you cut it, Koreans are little bitches when they play sports and they have no idea what "sportsmanlike conduct" is. Like respecting ex-pat English teachers or teaching without beating their students, the concept is completely foreign to them.; February 15, 2010 1:45 PM
Muckefuck said...: Just more reasons to dislike Koreans and Korea

How long until we see the Kim Yuna media blitz?; February 15, 2010 2:08 PM
Hoyoung said...: Main stream media everywhere are the same. They create unecessary dramas to increase viwership.

Look, United States never have to cheat because they have power to make the rules the way they want to be. That's the power of money.; February 15, 2010 2:17 PM
Maia said...: no, the USA can't make rules. otherwise it would have beaten Italy in the last World Cup.; February 15, 2010 3:04 PM
Jens-Olaf said...: @This is me posting

Spain haven't beaten Korea few World Cups before. It was 1994, and they tied against another South or Middle American team and played 2:3 against Germany. 2002 0:1 and the German were not looking good then again.

Bullshit, this cheating theme.; February 15, 2010 4:46 PM
a_mere_wanderer said...: But the truth is, true sportsmanship has been dead from the notorious commercialism for quite a long time. I'm sad to see people around the world taking competitive sports seriously. The purpose of Olympics is lost.

Ohno, the "American" skater, has become more controversial from the fact that the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics was "too jingoist for America".

If you're sane and normal enough, don't talk about competitive sports and don't watch competitive sports.; February 15, 2010 5:41 PM
yo said...: stop your whining bitches...on both sides; February 15, 2010 6:26 PM
Jens-Olaf said...: Okay, I am not normal and insane and like the exaggeration. That's sports for.; February 15, 2010 6:29 PM
Terry said...: Roy Jones Jr, '88 olympics in Seoul. Cry me a river.; February 15, 2010 6:35 PM
ksnkim10044 said...: I am not fan of Korean media. In fact I am disgusted by them. I also don't blame Ohno for winning his silver medal in this game. It was clearly Lee Ho Suk's fault. His greed had taken him too far. I could see that. But what makes me angry is the bad sportsmanship displayed by Ohno and his comments later. As I watched the game, I did not see any contact coming FROM Koreans but agressive contacts from OHNO. Not just on Koreans but to other competitors. I just don't like Ohno's arrogance, that's all. And God knows what happend in 2002 game. I just hope that Ohno would realise that he isn't hated for just nothing. He is hated for the poor sportsmanship he displays almost EVERY time he competes in the game.; February 15, 2010 7:14 PM
This Is Me Posting said...: @Jens-Olaf

1) I'm not talking about the Germans. The Germans can play football. Stop trying to deviate the conversation with your tripe. I'm talking about Korea vs. Spain.

2) You're going to bring up the '94 team, who still ended up outranking the Koreans in '94?

You're also going to tell me that the Koreans didn't cheat when no one would agree with you?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2002/jun/23/worldcupfootball2002.sport9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddUKHMLAckE

Two pulled back goals. Penalties not called against Koreans. Offsides called against Spain that clearly shouldn't have been. Watch it again and talk to me again AFTER you learn about football and have a clue about what you're talking about. Bullshit, your defending theme.

Korea is the biggest disgrace to ever touch a football. They should be banned from the sport.; February 15, 2010 10:15 PM
John from Daejeon said...: Hard to take any of this nonsense seriously when so many countries aren't even represented in this "global" "winter" Olympics.

Really, just how much of the world's population even gets to enjoy icy fury of winter when so many live in the tropics?; February 15, 2010 10:43 PM
girl said...: Ohno is a silver medalist in the shit I hope he did not see the game.; February 15, 2010 11:06 PM
girl said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 15, 2010 11:07 PM
youseok said...: What do you expect from the slutty little sister to the LA Times? Journalism? The koreans are legendary for their poor sportmanship conduct. Not just by the Japanese, but the Taiwanese to. Here is proof. http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2010/01/04/239184/Lawmakers-push.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpHxjjrcllA; February 16, 2010 1:05 AM
youseok said...: PS, I wouldn't wrap my fish in the Kt. It would disgrace the fish too much.; February 16, 2010 1:08 AM
a_mere_wanderer said...: "Korea is the biggest disgrace to ever touch a football. They should be banned from the sport."

Let me suggest you to never enjoy sports again and go on with your life.

Your over-obsession with hating Koreans in the sports field is quite ridiculous now. There is a life beyond watching sports. I hope you can find it, grasshopper.; February 16, 2010 3:15 AM
7Ø7 said...: @This is me posting:

Your Guardian article seems to say that Spain missed some opportunities as well as that the refs made questionable decisions. It even lauds the Koreans for working hard.

It says nothing like "Koreans cheated" or "Koreans bought out the refs."; February 16, 2010 5:40 AM
This Is Me Posting said...: @7Ø7

Reading's not your strongest quality, huh?

Try re-reading those first three paragraphs.

@a_mere_wanderer

I'm actually not that big of a sports guy. I hardly ever watch sports, opting to follow the teams I root for mostly on paper. I enjoy them about as much as the next guy.

What I am against is dishonourable behaviour and cheaters, of which the Koreans show nothing but in almost every international event they play in. Its not that I'm "over-obsessed" with hating on Koreans in sports, its that they're such heinous competitors who ruin the games for everyone else with their cheating, complaining and nationalism then whine and bitch when they're not given the medals automatically even when they suck.

You want me to stop complaining? Either get Koreans to learn the sports they're playing and play them fairly and honourably, or get them to stop playing sports. Pick one.

Furthermore, don't blame me for pointing out how disgraceful and awful Koreans are when playing sports. Blame the players. Don't hate me for speaking truthfully.; February 16, 2010 6:53 AM
3gyupsal said...: In the Washinton Post Ohno did say that he hoped he would win like in 2002, but let's not forget what the Lee something something the guy who won the match said.

After his team mates bit the dust in an incredibly silly move towards the end of the race, he claimed that Ohno didn't deserve his silver medal.

I'm bothered by the fact that this guy was the gold medal winner, and he felt it necisary to complain about the guy who came in second. Just think about that...He came in first in a race, and he used his press time to slam the guy who came in second. Talk about winning the gold but still being a looser.; February 16, 2010 8:51 AM
baekgom84 said...: I was never more pleased than when the Koreans beat the Italians at the 2002 World Cup. I really hope they did cheat to win that game, just because I like the irony of the Italian football team losing to a bunch of cheaters. The reaction of the Italians afterwards also suggests that Koreans aren't the only sore losers in the world.

As for the Spain match, is anyone suggesting that referees were paid off? Despite the fact that the refereeing in that WC was almost universally admonished, and despite the fact that countless games of football since the inception of the sport have been ruined by bad refereeing? And despite the fact that one team had home ground advantage, which is usually a pretty decisive factor (although it shouldn't be) in determining the outcome of borderline (or unfortunately, non-borderline) decisions?; February 16, 2010 9:43 AM
stacy said...: first of all who says koreans hate ohno because he's half japanese?..he's competing for USA and that claim is as silly as some of the media garbage we are getting worked up over. two koreans got knocked out and ohno got silver big deal. US is happy we got silver and J.R got bronze good for them. koreans are peeved because their two athletes got knocked out but they are not blaiming ohno for that....i just feel that US media plays up ohno like he's some sort of hero, he got silver because two ppl ahead of him got knocked out...and i def saw ohno using his hands several times while trying to get ahead...so who is he to talk about rough play..and im impressed with korean speed skaters i think they are pretty talented and definitely faster than ohno...im just glad J.R got bronze..he looks like a good clean athlete.; February 16, 2010 9:53 AM
훈영 said...: I'm upset about Americans comments. You all misunderstood. We(Koreans) dislike Ohno cause he always did agressive fouls. (preliminary round, he push Lee's back you know!) NOT the final short track. And I want to said that Koreans are not meanless to blame Ohno cause he is half-Japanese. If you know Korean, you can go korea website and read the orginal articles. (Go www.naver.com-famous korea website)
And finally I want to say that write the fact. ALmost these comments are nonsense!!!!!

PS. Song went off the outline and got back so Lee and Song were bumped. Don't say Koreans are against sportmanship. (<-Ohno break it); February 16, 2010 10:57 AM
myung said...: everyone of you who are talking crap about these athletes and their respective countries are almost as worse as the media and losers who've been making these dumb threats ...

most of these comments are ridiculous. get a life and enjoy the olympics instead of hating on life.; February 16, 2010 12:07 PM
나일 said...: I don't know the rules of Short-Skate (is that the proper event name?) and have just watched the 2002 Salt Lake video. The 1500 metre race.. And yes it does look to me like the Korean athlete stuck his left arm in front of Ohno as he was trying to pass. I recognise that block-off maneuver as the hallmark AJUMA block move- ELBOWS FIRST. Honestly, the Korean athlete may have been unlucky as there may not have been the intention there. However, it does give me great satisfaction to see him disqualified as (here are my pretty petty reasons)... I've been blocked off and walked in front of by seemingly oblivious to their own surroundings Koreans so many many many many times!! They cut right in front of you like you don't even exist. It's like they have no awareness and couldn't care less if they walked right in front of someone. I want to trip them up everytime they do it... (But you can't trip up DOEN JANG GIRLS as their heels would impale your feet)And thank the non-Korean Gods for that disqualification. The look on his face is pure gold! GOLD! All I can say is he deserved it... Yes, petty.
When Ireland played France in the World Cup playoffs a few months ago a French player hand-balled TWICE in the lead up to France's winning goal. Now that's something to be angry about!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxw1-Id91lQ
Blatant cheating, which WASN't spotted and now France and not Ireland will be competing in the World Cup. I so so so wanted Ireland to play Korea. Poxy Fuckers, now I can cheer against 3 teams: England, France and Korea! (oh, and Germany I suppose..); February 16, 2010 1:18 PM
BrowneyedSorrow said...: http://nimg.nate.com/orgImg/sd/2010/02/16/26194687.1.jpg

look at the photo and then think about why the Gold medalist made that comment about ohno. That photo sums up ohno's performance in the 1500m race. All the way to the end, it was ohno grabbing and pushing and pulling other racers.
Brian, u make it sound like the Gold medalist only made those comments about ohno because of what happened to other Korean racers but that is misleading and you know it. ohno's dirty tricks as shown by the pic is what prompted the Gold winner to make those comments.; February 16, 2010 1:19 PM
Pin-ish-ed said...: I watched the 1500m race the other day on SBS. During the "Flower Ceremony" Lee, Jung-su leaned down and reached out his arm to shake Ohno's hand but the camera turned away and didn't show that(more likely SBS cut/edited that part out). SBS doesn't want to show sportsmanship which usually exemplifies the spirit of the Olympics. SBS would rather see Korean continue HATING on Ohno.

And, Lee, Jung-su could've been disqualified in the Semi-final 1 race. I'd bet he would've been had he caused Ohno to fall. On the last lap Ohno made a great inside pass. At first the announcers thought Ohno was at fault but at further and closer review it's clear that Ohno and his skate was ahead of Lee, Jung-su. Lee almost immediately raised his hands but he impeded Ohno as the skater behind who touches the skater ahead is at fault. Lee Jung-su shouldn't have even been in the final race.

I think the entire Korea team should be banned from competing in the next Olympics or short track be eliminated completely from Olympic competition. S. Korea usually wins most medals in short track but she is the poorest sport in the world. The Korean media and most fans are immature. As reported in the past Korean athletes/coaches assault each other. It's time the IOC ban S. Korea NOW!!!; February 16, 2010 2:36 PM
superasiann said...: crap. i lost my entire comment but i'm going to retype it out anyway:

haha, i feel like the only sensible commenters were the ones who said to get over this.

i love how everyone's making this a race issue; ohno is half japanese and skates for the u.s.a. like seriously, this is not that big of a deal - it's the fucking olympics! come on now, let's "be grown up about it". don't get me wrong though, it sort of bothers me how everyone's stereotyping koreans and labeling them as "psycho", angry, racist, "greedy", and immature japanese-and-american-haters. of course, granted, there are koreans who may possess some or maybe even all of these qualities - but there are a ton of other people of different ethnicities who do too! so please. grow up.

i'm a 16 year old korean-american and i feel like i'm reading comments made by fellow high schoolers (albeit more mature high schoolers, i'll give you guys that much). just enjoy the games!

p.s. to those who plan on using my ethnicity as a reason to disregard this entire comment, i am not defending koreans because i am korean. i defend any person or any race under unjust fire; the fact that i am korean just motivated me that much more to write this long ass post, aha. just wanted to make that clear.; February 16, 2010 3:07 PM
a_mere_wanderer said...: myung said... "everyone of you who are talking crap about these athletes and their respective countries are almost as worse as the media and losers who've been making these dumb threats ...

most of these comments are ridiculous. get a life and enjoy the olympics instead of hating on life."

This Is Me Posting, take note from myung's intelligent comment.; February 16, 2010 3:14 PM
a_mere_wanderer said...: stacy said... "i just feel that US media plays up ohno like he's some sort of hero"

As I'm talking about the nature of the mass media.

This is what happens when a very powerful media do something crazy. The American media jingoistic-ally over-hyped during the 2002 SLC Olympics. It's still depressing to see that the American media dictates whether which controversies should be emphasized during any Olympics game.

To be fair in this case, Team America shouldn't be banned from the Olympics. The American media should be kicked out from the Olympics forever.; February 16, 2010 3:46 PM
7Ø7 said...: @Me Posting

In summary, the first three paragraphs say:

Spain thinks it was cheated.
The refs made questionable calls in favor of SK.
SK, despite the legitimacy of the victory, celebrated.

So where does the article say anything like "Korea cheated and/or bought off the refs?" Yes, it states Spain's point of view (that they were cheated), but shouldn't any balanced article? It does state that the refs made blatant errors, but it doesn't go as far as to state or imply that SK might be paying off th refs.

If anything, I think it leans too far in the direction of the SKoreans. I'm not sure how statements like "Asia's greatest achievers" imply that it cheated.; February 16, 2010 4:41 PM
。roy said...: I love how this post brought up the 2002 world cup. The youtube video that someone posted with the comment only shows the korean pushing and shoving. Do you really think that the koreans were the only ones doing that? I'll post up the video that I recorded when I was there again the italians and show you that italians were also 'cheating'.

Ohno is a great skater (ill give you that) but his actions on the ice is unforgivable. He should have not won the gold in 2002.

Korean 'Netizens' need to calm down and just enjoy the olympics.; February 16, 2010 5:38 PM
louieda said...: watch this video and see for ur self...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z-obyjzj5g&feature=related

at 2:16; February 16, 2010 6:07 PM
Brian said...: For the Korean visitors who have come via the Naver blog link, I'll point out that many of us don't really care about short-track, myself included. I never gave it a second thought until I came to Korea and saw how much Koreans enjoyed it. Well, how much Koreans enjoy winning at it.

The point of this post was to show how the media was ready at the drop of a hat to go after Ohno. Whether you think he's a good guy or a bad guy, it's remarkable that within a couple days of the Olympics starting we already had people fired up about him.

Also remarkable that after one of this country's skaters winning a gold medal, the local English press---the Korea Times, anyway---is running two articles atop its page about how much of a jerk Ohno is.

I'm sure Ohno being half-Japanese doesn't help, but he simply had the misfortune of being an American during 2002, Korea's period of intense xenophobia and anti-Americanism. Had he been French or Chinese or some other nationality, few people would care.

Korean netizens do get upset easily about certain issues, issues that don't seem important to the rest of us (Mad Cow, Liancourt Rocks, skating). But it's worth pointing out that Korean opinions also prompt equally strong opinions from some foreigners. There are some people out there who care more about Takeshima than Koreans care about Dokdo, and some who care more about discrediting Korean soccer or skating than Koreans care about promoting it.; February 16, 2010 6:32 PM
kato_sb said...: WATCH THE REPLAY

Just so you know, Lee Jung Su actually considered Ohno a "hero" of his before this race.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=97fdc4d6-3ad0-4f6b-80e6-e360e931b2d8.html#short+track+mens+1500m+final

Watch the replay and look how close Apolo comes to Lee Jung Su's hand...he just about skates through his hand (he does the same thing to Sung Si Bak at 3:25, thats why Sung Si Bak bumped into him, he was thrown off balance). Luckily, Lee Jung Su is aware and quick enough to lift his hand early. This throws Lee Jung Su off and he can't keep his position. As soon as Ohno passes watch his OPEN hand fly back and land on Lee Jung Su's shoulder (he doesn't bring his arm back like in a normal swing)...then Apolo PUSHES his hand THROUGH Lee Jung Su's shoulder. Like it or not, pushing and shoving IS a part of this sport...but there is a line.

Earlier In the same race Lee Ho Suk made a bad pass attempt and Apolo was justified in fighting for his position there. He was frustrated and then he retaliated on Lee Jung Su. Apolo is an amazing athlete and an incredible skater but he is an aggressive skater. We have alot of pride riding on Apolo, but in the end he is human and not perfect (although many might not want to see that).

It would be interesting if we could watch the race w/o faces or team colors and then see how people's opinions might change. The mind is a powerful thing and often we see what we want to see...; February 16, 2010 8:42 PM
BrowneyedSorrow said...: Brian in Jeollanam-do..

"The point of this post was to show how the media was ready at the drop of a hat to go after Ohno." They're reporting facts arent they? need i post the link to the picture again? ohno is a cheat and an arrogant one at that who tries hard to convince himself he aint cheating.

If you've got something again media bias, why dont u start with american media for a start? they're only runner up for N.Korea's govt run media for twisting facts to their taste.; February 17, 2010 6:04 AM
Puffin Watch said...: A Korean won the gold and Koreans are still complaining about Ohno? Right. That's it. I'm not buying Samsung or Hyundai ever again.; February 17, 2010 6:17 AM
Ellie said...: If you guys don't know what really happened, don't dare to make comments about it. check the pictures on this website and let's see if you can say the same thing after that.
http://www.mydaily.co.kr/news/read.html?newsid=201002162045562272&ext=na

What do you think you see on the korean skater's shoulder? is that Ohno's arm? or is THAT ohno's arm? Koreans are not blindly projecting anti-american hatred on Ohno. Rather, his careless gestures and comments and a little to obvious blocking got caught on different cameras. It is true that Kim Dong Sung disrespectfully threw the national flag on the ice once he figured out that he was disqualified, and I do not argue about that. He was wrong. But can't you americans accept what you ohno did wrong too? why do you guys always have to be right no matter what and now see who is distorting reality. when you are defending on behalf of someone like ohno, make sure you know what really happened. I noticed the author deleted some comments by korean people and is trying to manipulate the public perception about this matter, but please stop that because if you keep doing that you do not have the right to criticize korean people for writing misleading articles.; February 17, 2010 6:42 AM
Puffin Watch said...: Koreans are not blindly projecting anti-american hatred on Ohno.

And next you're going to tell us the beef protests weren't about Koreans blindly projecting anti-americanism.; February 17, 2010 7:52 AM
a_mere_wanderer said...: Ellie said... "Koreans are not blindly projecting anti-american hatred on Ohno."

In fact, Ohno is not the problem. It's the American media that is the problem. Koreans were mislead to hate Ohno mainly from the American media. Americans project their anti-American feeling against Koreans because they follow the American media that over-positively portrayed Ohno.

I support Koreans hating America due to our bastardized mass media, which even the Americans hate. Oh, I'm also an American.

The truth is, Americans in general have weird religion-like devotions to corporate media companies of their particular interests. It is very bad and it needs to be fixed at all cost.; February 17, 2010 8:47 AM
superasiann said...: You people seriously need to stop arguing about this like children and stop grouping Koreans as one 'being' who are just focused on throwing child-like fits and hating Americans/Japanese. Instead of focusing on the race, why don't you single out the specific people.

Some people just amaze me...

A Korean won the gold and Koreans are still complaining about Ohno? Right. That's it. I'm not buying Samsung or Hyundai ever again.

Like, stop talking, haha. I'm not justifying any tantrum thrown, but judging by what I've read, Ohno could have unfairly won his silver medal, essentially stealing it. I'd be pissed too if a cheater wasn't disqualified and skated away with my/my teammate's Olympic medal. Oh, and I'm American. Would you blame my anger on my Korean heritage or excuse it because I'm American?

Just a note: I'm NOT siding with the Korean athletes because I don't even KNOW what happened exactly - I'm not even talking about the Olympics or the short skating event! I'm talking about the matter of race which I feel like a portion of this conversation has become about. I feel like this is more of a 'race game' rather than a conversation on the athletes..; February 17, 2010 8:59 AM
holterbarbour said...: Ohno is a douchebag, but it's because he's an arrogant goon with a fratboy soulpatch, not because of his strategy on the ice. EVERYONE pushes and shoves. That's the nature of the game. If you don't get the other guy's arm out of the way, you ain't getting ahead.; February 17, 2010 9:22 AM
Brian said...: BrownEyedSorrow, in case you haven't noticed, this isn't a blog about the US or American media, this is a Korea-focused blog, hence the discussion of shitty local media when necessary.

Thanks for playing. Bye.; February 17, 2010 9:59 AM
a_mere_wanderer said...: Brian said... "BrownEyedSorrow, in case you haven't noticed, this isn't a blog about the US or American media, this is a Korea-focused blog, hence the discussion of shitty local media when necessary.

Thanks for playing. Bye."

Good job making your blog a gunpowder keg for anti-Americanism. America needs less people like you.; February 17, 2010 10:03 AM
Brian said...: Normally I don't tolerate trolls on my site---no reason to allow hours of work to be handed over to keyboard warriors---but this is the sort of thread that breeds them.; February 17, 2010 10:08 AM
jinuwine said...: If you didn't know the host-nation always receives benefits during world cup. All the World Cup series have always been like that. Go search online, many refs and FIFA chairmen, or w.e they are called have stated that many of the World Cups have been rigged in the past. Notoriously, the 1966 World Cup, where England won, the refs were switched out at the last minute, allowing the majority of the refs to be English. and they ended up winning. in 2006, Argentina should have had a penalty against Germany, as maxi rodriguez was back-tackled inside the penalty box, but instead, he was given a yellow for diving. So please, if you do not know about soccer, don't talk. and just stick to discussing short track please; February 17, 2010 10:20 AM
fattycat said...: Wow this thread has gotten stupid!

@ Ellie

"I noticed the author deleted some comments by korean people and is trying to manipulate the public perception about this matter, but please stop that because if you keep doing that you do not have the right to criticize korean people for writing misleading articles"

Ellie, How could you possibly know if the person who writes this blog is deleting comments by Korean people? In fact you dont. You are just making nationalistic assumptions because Brian didnt remove those comments.

The "author" is the person who wrote the comment. The person who wrote the comment deleted their own comment. Brian did not delete the comment.If he did it would say "This post has been removed by a blog administrator".; February 17, 2010 10:54 AM
Brian said...: Exactly, fattycat.

I'm not the "author," I'm the "administrator."

Those posts were removed by the people who wrote them, not by me.

I'm usually pretty strict about comments on my site---I've earned that right---and on most threads will delete those that are inflammatory or insulting toward me and other posters. But, this sort of thread begs for those types of comments, so I'm letting it play out.; February 17, 2010 10:57 AM
Matt said...: @a_mere_wanderer

"Koreans were mislead to hate Ohno mainly from the American media. Americans project their anti-American feeling against Koreans because they follow the American media that over-positively portrayed Ohno.

I support Koreans hating America due to our bastardized mass media, which even the Americans hate. Oh, I'm also an American."

You forgot to include, "I AM NOT A CRACKPOT," at the end.; February 17, 2010 11:27 AM
kushibo said...: Puffin Watch wrote:
And next you're going to tell us the beef protests weren't about Koreans blindly projecting anti-americanism.

The beef protests were about ousting LMB. That the chinboistas used one of their standby whipping boys is beside the point.

A Korean won the gold and Koreans are still complaining about Ohno?

If you believe the K-blogs, yes. If you read the Korean-language stuff, not so much. It's 이호석 whose head they want on a platter.

Right. That's it. I'm not buying Samsung or Hyundai ever again.

Well, that doesn't make you sound just like a candlelight vigilante, does it?

Have you ever bought a Hyundai, PW?; February 17, 2010 12:13 PM
King Baeksu said...: "The beef protests were about ousting LMB. That the chinboistas used one of their standby whipping boys is beside the point."

Kushibo the apologist link-pimp strikes again. What you meant to say was, "The progressive forces leveraged anti-American Korean nationalism in order to attempt to oust LMB."

From the start, the protesters were very clear in their attempts to portray LMB as a "pro-US flunky" and "Bush's lapdog," simply because he had signed the beef deal that had been greenlighted by Roh the year before.

The protests were very much about Korean resentments against the US, and if it had been beef from any other country, the entire episode would not have happened. So what you claim was "beside the point" was in fact the key starting point.

Please go peddle your stealth apologist BS somewhere else, sir.; February 17, 2010 2:30 PM
BrowneyedSorrow said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 17, 2010 4:20 PM
Ben said...: as i mentioned in my blog:

http://bennosgg.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/apollo-ohno-koreans-hate-that-guy/

ohno is a very convenient scape-goat for koreans(i think it's obvious as to why). but it's sad, because the real story should be that they won gold, something they and Lee can be very proud of.; February 17, 2010 4:55 PM
kevin said...: http://imgnews.naver.com/image/064/2010/02/17/00.jpg

You can clearly see that Ohno grabbed one of Korean guy's arm. He did cheat but I doubt judges can see this from their angle. The race is over anyway. Nevertheless he is a great skater.; February 17, 2010 7:16 PM
Puffin Watch said...: Kushibo, no one has ever accused you of having a deep ability to appreciate sarcasm. Right?

Here's a thing called irony, Kushibo. Take it slow, okay Kuku?

I do find it strange Koreans, of all people, should be upset about, oh, cheating. Cheating to get ahead is suddenly a bad, bad thing? Among Koreans? *cough* fake snu degree scandals *cough* stem cell cloning *cough*

The Koreans whining against Ohno presumes Korean short track skaters always skate within the rules. Didn't that flag throwing baby in 2002 lose his gold because he blocked Ohno?

Anyway, I'm happy Koreans have at least developed an appreciation that honesty is a virtue and one to be emulated. Let's communicate that to your politicians, business leaders, and hagwon owners. Mmmmkay?; February 17, 2010 9:19 PM
dkfma1194 said...: Ohno did not make Korean fall this time,
but Korean are mad because He is so Brilliant to grab Korean's arm every lab= cheating!!

Last winter Olympic, His reaction was from non-exist touch by Korean!!! which made Korean's gold medal non-exist.

you have no heart as a sports player

just go Dancing with the star!!!; February 17, 2010 9:21 PM
kushibo said...: Puffin Watch wrote:
Here's a thing called irony, Kushibo. Take it slow, okay Kuku?

Eighty-plus comments, largely about "Koreans" being universally outraged at Ohno and how the concomitant anti-Americanism or acceptance or cheating or bad sportsmanship reflects so badly on many or all in the country, when in fact Koreans are mostly directing their ire and disgust at their own countryman, 이호석. That's a thing called irony, Puffin Man.

PuPu also wrote:
Kushibo, no one has ever accused you of having a deep ability to appreciate sarcasm. Right?

No, only for dishing it out. I didn't detect your sarcasm, you're right. Usually you have such a stick up your arse about all things Korea, I didn't recognize the one time when you were just joking around.

And could we see someone finally acknowledge that Yonhap's (and thus the KT's) paraphrase that Ohno was "hoping that there was disqualification of the other athletes who were racing ahead of him" did actually come from something Ohno had actually said, which contradicts the OP?

WORD VERIFICATION: zocks, what to listen for if a German customer is looking for socks.; February 18, 2010 2:45 AM
hellogoodbye said...: Wow. PUFFIN WATCH really has something against Korean people. Someone's driving a mighty fast racecar... I roll my eyes in disgust at you. I can't believe you're considered an adult in our world and country. Embarassing.; February 18, 2010 10:24 AM
Brian said...: BrowneyedSorrow wrote, before he deleted his own comment:

"@fatty cat

I'm sorry but Brian in Jeollanam-do actually did delete my comment. As for branding me a troll or a keyboard warrior or calling this shitty piece of post the result of "hours of work," that really sums it up for you dont it now Brian the whiner? "

On this thread? No, clearly I didn't. This post didn't take hours, but I used to spend hours a day putting together posts. Certainly hours a week reading comments.

After you go through the trouble of writing 2,000+ posts, developing an audience, making connections across fields, contributing to the mainstream media, and putting in countless hours of work, after you go through that, then maybe you'd understand why I don't give the floor to random drive-by commenters. You're more than welcome to start your own blog and run it the way you wish. On my site I run it my way, and many appreciate that. Those who have a problem with it are more than welcome to run back to soompi or Naver.; February 18, 2010 11:33 AM
sagresdp18 said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 18, 2010 12:40 PM
sagresdp18 said...: This is an interesting vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC1ALb1wvk8; February 18, 2010 12:41 PM
Victoria said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 18, 2010 3:30 PM
Victoria said...: ...-_-...

OHNO MAKES ME CRAZY.; February 18, 2010 3:40 PM
Wendy said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 18, 2010 4:48 PM
Wendy said...: I think that all of you who are so quick to side against South Koreans in response to this blog entry, are either consciously or subliminally racist against East Asia, or feel threatened by the success of East Asia and their ability of their people to make their own judgments -- ones that are not aligned with those of the USA. This is Euro-centrism at its best.

I considered saying so much more that was directly related to this particular speed skating issue, but what would have been the point? Because no matter what my argument is, you guys will think your hardest to extract or contrive a fault or weakness of the Koreans in order to prove yourselves correct -- and the reason for that is your negative preconceived notion of East Asia and your broader and personal political intents.

Oh, and if it matters to you, I am not Korean.; February 18, 2010 4:56 PM
Wendy said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 18, 2010 5:03 PM
Matt Dameon said...: You guys are all blind. Ohno is a very talented skater but what sells him is that he's a star. He's the favorite. A lot of people want him to win, American or not. Which is why everyone, even YOU guys, look the other way when he does something wrong. That is very clear. Watch the videos.

Any country would react to this unfairness the exact same way as the Koreans are.

The Korean are the underdogs here but who isn't when competing against USA. Let's face it, the reason they are so defensive is because short track is their bread and butter. (+ baseball) I mean USA's freakin short track coach is from Korea for god sakes.

Also, look at the guy. Ohno that is. The guy looks like a complete douch. It just adds insult to injury... Maybe if the guy didn't have a vagina on his face, they wouldn't hate him as much.; February 18, 2010 5:05 PM
Wendy said...: Firstly, @Puffin Watch, there's really no need to sound so snide (but since you did, I will not restrain myself), and refer to Kushibo as "Kuku". Please do not exotify or cutify Asian names, especially when you are not Asian. It's downright obnoxious and annoying, mmmmmmmkay?

Secondly, the rest of your comment perfectly illustrates my comment above, so thank you for that. Tell me, was the stem cell controversy something that you wish had NOT occurred, for the greater good of Koreans, the scientific community, and humanity? Or -- does it make you dance around inside with glee, knowing that a nation you've chosen to hate (for genuine reasons you either don't know or will not disclose) had one of its citizens do something terrible?

Yeah, I thought so.; February 18, 2010 5:07 PM
kushibo said...: Maybe if the guy didn't have a vagina on his face

Pussy puss?

Wendy, I appreciate your sentiment, but Puffin Man calling KuKu isn't that big a deal. If Kushibo were my given name, maybe I'd be a little offended, but it's just an Internet handle after all.

And Puffin Man is an all right guy when it comes down to it. Pretty much everybody here is. A lot of people are frustrated — sometimes for good reasons, other times not so good reasons — over stuff in Korea, whether it be the fault of others or their own or nobody's in particular.

And toward that end, a lot of people see the stuff between Ohno and Lee as an allegory for their own trials and tribulations in the ROK. Especially when a good chunk of the Ohno slug fest is deeply rooted in anti-American sentiment circa 2002. So I'd cut the Ohno cheering squad some slack. At least a little.

"We wuz robbed" can bring out the worst in people.; February 18, 2010 5:16 PM
Wendy said...: Oh, another thing, @Puffin Watch, introducing unrelated Korean scandals is extremely fallacious. By your logic, one man of a country is a shoddy scientist, therefore the country should not have the right to express their feelings about any unfairness at a future competition?; February 18, 2010 5:17 PM
fattycat said...: I think everyone has clearly forgotten who's fault this is...Canada. They're the ones who hosted this race. Why all this talk about Korea or the USA?

Blame Canada with all their hockey hullabaloo. And that bitch Anne Murray too. Blame Canada! Shame on Canada!For The smut we must stop. The trash we must bash. The laughter and fun must all be undone. We must blame them and cause a fuss before somebody thinks of blaming us!!!!; February 18, 2010 9:10 PM
Puffin Watch said...: Wendy your fallacy is the straw man argument you've attributed to me. Well, two actually.

First, you assume I hate Korea. Nothing could be further from the truth. I live in Toronto. I'm not above criticizing Toronto. Therefore I must hate Toronto? Let's throw false dichotomy into your list of fallacies. K?

Second, my point is not your facile straw man "one guy did something bad so all Koreans need to shut up." My point is the stem cell controversy and wholesale cheating and dishonesty within Korea's whole educational spectrum severely threaten, at best, Korea's international prestige. At worst, they're lode stones on Korea's economy.

To me, it seems these examples of dishonesty -- systematic dishonesty -- are things Koreans should be in the streets about protesting. But as we've seen Koreans have swept them under the rug with no where near the anger and citizen outrage over an American who ostensibly cheated in a sport that all sides may well employ strategic cheating.

That's the argument at hand. I invite you to argue against that point, not your silly fantasy.; February 18, 2010 9:20 PM
Brian said...: We did it! We broke 100 comments for the first time in Brian in Jeollanam-do history!

Wendy, I'll first say that I don't think Puffin Watch was trying to be disrespectful toward Asian names by calling him Kuku. And certainly him not being Asian doesn't disqualify him from doing it, even if he wanted to.

But you do sort of hit on---hit near---a good point, something demonstrated here and in some of my other categories. Some westerners with experience in Korea note how wound up Koreans get about seemingly trivial matters: Ohno, Liancourt Rocks, and my personal hobby horse, Sea of Japan. We often don't see Koreans approach these issues in calm, collected, well-reasoned manners, but with aggressive over-the-top gestures: finger-chopping, death threats, and massive inbox spam campaigns. Not all Koreans do that, of course, but we notice it in the media.

But what happens is some westerners, in turn, become equally aggressive in taking the opposite position. I don't care about Ohno or short-track at all, but this post was about the media's reaction to his second-place "victory." Some people have come on here, some Koreans and Korean-Americans have said to us to calm down and enjoy the races. Rather ironic of course because some of those comments are made on Korean blogs that are anything but calm and enjoyable. But, nevertheless, when confronted with some Korean attitudes, some people do become equally as, um, passionate in the other extreme. I'm certainly that way about the Sea of Japan: it's an issue I wouldn't care about other wise, but Koreans trying to dictate the name in English is ridiculous and absurd. Anyway . . .

That said, I don't think Puffin Watch was out of line, nor do I think many of the commenters here are biased against East Asia any more than that bias I talked about in the previous two paragraphs. Many commenters on this post are first-timers, or at least come by only when it's a good chance to go at me. But there is enough of a history of bad sportsmanship to deserve comment, and it's something that comes around just about every time there's a big international sporting event.; February 18, 2010 9:58 PM
Puffin Watch said...: Ha. Thanks Kuku. As I've said a few times on Joe's podcast, you're more right than wrong on most issues. I guess I only take issue when you attempt to hold people to an overly strict legalistic interpretation and you sometimes don't grant charity for sloppy blog posting thinking. But then there's nothing wrong with having people double check their thinking. "Did I really mean to say that?"; February 19, 2010 12:06 AM
David said...: Ohno obviously represents the thing that North Koreans hate most: 1. He is multiracial and his one parent is Japanese. 2. He is an American. So North Koreans really hate him for the fact that American's love him, he is half japanese and he is a free person. Free from prejududice and racism like the North Koreans. P.S. I am a North Korean living in China; February 19, 2010 12:44 AM
David said...: The fact of the matter is you Korean's are just racists. Everything about you is racist and I will never buy any products made from your country again or allow any of your entertainment influences in my household.; February 19, 2010 1:44 AM
jcho said...: Just remember,

Ohno didnt win the Gold this week. Korean dude still won.

Lastly, the USA shorttrack team coach is Korean. So we are like all friends. So people calm down and do something better with your time.

Werd.; February 19, 2010 6:55 AM
Adeel said...: We made it to 100! Congratulations everybody!; February 19, 2010 7:15 AM
kushibo said...: Puffin Watch wrote:
Ha. Thanks Kuku. As I've said a few times on Joe's podcast, you're more right than wrong on most issues.

If I ever run for public office, that will be my slogan.; February 19, 2010 7:53 AM
This Is Me Posting said...: 110 GET.; February 19, 2010 9:37 AM
King Baeksu said...: I never used to care about how many medals my home country, the US, won during the Olympics. I don't think I even cared as recently as the 2006 Games.

But when I clicked on the New York Times this morning and saw the top headline, "Vonn Crashes Out of Super Combined," my first reaction was "Damn, that's one less gold medal for the US." I confess that yesterday I was rather satisfied to know that the US had three times as many medals as South Korea (15 to 5), and was hoping to increase the count as much as possible. It seems I've been infected by the virus of nationalism. But then this morning, despite my initial reaction, I then had a second thought: Why am I being so "greedy"? 15 is already quite a lot, and a few more or less is not worth being a small-minded, ungrateful bastard about it.

I dislike having these kinds of feelings polluting my thoughts, and have to admit that long-term exposure to Korean nationalism seems to have rubbed off on me a bit. It's one of the reasons why I finally decided to leave this place. Certainly there are more important things in life upon which to expend one's emotional and psychic energy.

In any case, South Korea has already done quite well, and I do hope the remainder of the Games are a more positive experience all around.; February 19, 2010 9:42 AM
kushibo said...: King Baeksu wrote:
It's one of the reasons why I finally decided to leave this place.

If you can possibly hold out for a year or two, I would wait until the economy starts moving in a better direction. That is, if you don't somehow have a job or something else lined up already. This is an absolutely terrible time to be unemployed and looking for a job in California or most of the rest of America.

And before you leave, invest in a nice suit and tie. That is, if you don't have one already. You might need it to shuck and jive for the man.

Hope you find something interesting, worthwhile, and of at least adequate financial reward.; February 19, 2010 9:50 AM
King Baeksu said...: K, I already have several designer suits from Japan, France and even Korea.

I also have a nice job lined up, not in the US, and I didn't even have to wear one of my suits to get it!; February 19, 2010 10:07 AM
kushibo said...: Congratulations, then. I hope you enjoy your new gig.

My advice still holds for anyone else thinking about taking off right now, though.; February 19, 2010 10:10 AM
Michael Jackson said...: Apolo is cool. that's true
poor; February 19, 2010 3:01 PM
Jane said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 20, 2010 12:55 PM
Jane said...: Puffin Watch.

"...complaining about Ohno? Right. That's it. I'm not buying Samsung or Hyundai ever again."

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaahahahahahahahahahaaha

are you seriously saying that?

I almost laughed out loud!!; February 20, 2010 12:57 PM
dontbejealous said...: we criticized you guys, and you guys criticized us.
we are equal now, right?
happy now?
you guys are just as dumb as us.
so shut up now..; February 20, 2010 1:41 PM
Brian said...: For the benefit of all the first-time visitors, I'll answer for Puffin Watch that no, he's not really saying that. His fauxverreaction is mocking . . . something.

Perhaps I'll do a second post on this topic, seeing as some of the western media is coming to this story pretty late in the game. I'll address the complaints by some of the trolls on Marmot's Hole that I'm wrong and biased by suggesting the media is intentionally misrepresenting his post-race comments.

Atop the KT website that day was an article about the gold medal victory and two articles about what a bad sport Ohno is considered. The second one, which I quoted at length in the post, reported about his quotations but didn't insert them in the article. Searching for the source, "INFO 2010" turned up tons of results in Korean but nothing in English. Heading to the official Vancouver Olympics site turned up quotations from Ohno, but nothing as dastardly as the Times was making him out to be.

Kushibo, certainly not a troll, in a comment linked to a Washington Post story containing Ohno remarks closer to what the Times was alleging. He contends the story isn't Koreans disliking Ohno but rather the Korean skater who cost the team the silver and bronze. A few of the dumbasses on Marmot's Hole are saying everybody is ignoring kushibo and his comments. However, looking at those two Korea Times pieces, I don't see how you can reasonably deny the Times, and the Korean media from which those English-language pieces were based, was not trying to stir up trouble and hatred.

In kushibo's most recent posts on his own blog he takes some western media sources to task for "sloppy journalism." Unfortunately, the journalism on Korea often is sloppy when coming out of the west and from people unfamiliar with the country. Moreover it's often behind the times and based on too many secondary sources. Some people accuse me of being sloppy---I don't think I am very often, and I don't think I was in this post---but hey, I don't get paid to do this, I don't get paid to cover the Olympics, and I don't have the time that comes with doing this for a living.; February 20, 2010 1:51 PM
Brian said...: (broken up into two posts b/c of length)

He's right to say that people probably don't hate him because he's half-Japanese. Kushibo also writes " it’s reporting on eight-year-old news as if it just happened." Indeed, the Ohno story isn't new, and it's an angle any sports reporter worth his/her salt would have known well before Vancouver. But sports reporters . . . well, no comment.

But, on that topic you can't really dismiss the hatred of Ohno in 2002 considering (1) it was significant, (2) it was a period of intense and frightening xenophobia and anti-Americanism, (3) this level of competitiveness---some may say poor sportsmanship---seems to come out of Korea pretty frequently, and (4) that 2002 hatred is clearly coming back to add drama to the 2010 games.

Perhaps it's necessary to do a second post on Ohno considering the western media is just now getting around to the story. Perhaps it's time to do a longer post---this one was put together rather quickly based on a quick look at the paper---incorporating more sources and more recent sources. But, I really don't care about short-track, and one good thing about watching the Games from the US now is that I don't have to endure SBS's wall-to-wall skating coverage. For people in Korea or interested in it, the Ohno beef isn't simply about skating, and that's why I decided to pay some attention to it. It represents and is characteristic of many other social forces in the country. The intention of this post isn't to make Korea look bad---although some readers think my intention is ALWAYS to make Korea look bad---but rather to make those making Korea look bad look bad. This post isn't typical of those on my blog---not too typical, anyway---in that I've allowed the comment section to set its own course. It's interesting to see all the new faces, but it's meant more bickering than we're used to. This is also my most-commented-on post ever, leading my post on Christmas by over 20, and three or four times more than my non-tabloid posts normally get.

Anyway, I'd encourage everyone to read Gusts of Popular Feeling's post on this, poor Korean sportsmanship, and the 1988 Seoul Summer Olympics.; February 20, 2010 1:52 PM
kushibo said...: Brian wrote:
Unfortunately, the journalism on Korea often is sloppy when coming out of the west and from people unfamiliar with the country.

While there are some very good Korean journalists, Korean journalism suffers from lazy and often uninformed writers, reporters with an agenda, and a host of other problems.

I'm not too terribly fond of the Western press reporting out of Asia, either, but let there be no mistake: There is a high degree of unprofessionalism in Korea's journalism industry.; February 20, 2010 1:59 PM
Brian said...: Indeed, and I'm not saying there isn't. I'm just talking about what might best be considered "incomplete" coverage of Korea and Asia. That happens sometimes when people who normally don't look at Korea have to cover it---and have to throw something together by Googling or by talking to Koreans who give a distorted picture---and sometimes by Korean(-American) writers, too.

Anyway, just an observation.; February 20, 2010 2:06 PM
kushibo said...: Brian wrote:
But, on that topic you can't really dismiss the hatred of Ohno in 2002 considering (1) it was significant, (2) it was a period of intense and frightening xenophobia and anti-Americanism, (3) this level of competitiveness---some may say poor sportsmanship---seems to come out of Korea pretty frequently, and (4) that 2002 hatred is clearly coming back to add drama to the 2010 games.

Absolutely yes to #1, #2, and #3. And a partial yes to #4, but not nearly as much as the K-blogs have been making out.

Perhaps it's time to do a longer post---this one was put together rather quickly based on a quick look at the paper---incorporating more sources and more recent sources. But, I really don't care about short-track, and one good thing about watching the Games from the US now is that I don't have to endure SBS's wall-to-wall skating coverage.

As I stated here, I think you deserve to be cut some slack since you have your hands full on this post, now with 121 comments. Blogging is not a full-time job.

although some readers think my intention is ALWAYS to make Korea look bad

I'd happily act as a character reference in response to anyone who says that. In that same link just above, I note that you "work very hard to present some good stuff about the Chŏlla region (and sometimes the rest of the country) that wouldn't otherwise get the notice of the anglophone K-blogs."; February 20, 2010 2:08 PM
hi said...: I think Ohno can win only when he cheats.
First, everyone without American knows that he cheated in 2002. You blame that Korean skater tossed his Korean flag to the ground. But I don't think so. Everyone would throw down their flag in anger when someone steal their gold medal.
Second, he has an extremely poor sportsmanship. Of course, in vancouver, he didn't anything. Just two Korean skaters crashed into each other. However, his comments and action were so rude.
"At the end of the race I was hoping for another disqualification kind of like what happened in Salt Lake City."
How can he say like this? Olympic is held for national unity and friendship. His comment is which ignores other skater's effort.
Also, a psychologist said Ohno isn't mature person. I will quote from her comments.
He contradicts hisself. However, because he isn't mature person, he don't know whether his comment is contradiction or not. Eventually, people like him put every problem down to other people and think they are always victims. And what is a cause? It is because of starving for affection.; February 21, 2010 1:49 AM
Brian said...: hi, what makes you think everyone who isn't American "knows" he cheated/cheats? It's very easy to say "everyone who isn't Korean knows he didn't cheat."

Talking about sportsmanship---and Ohno may indeed be a bad sport, depending on your point of view---what do you think about the Korean skaters who have shown equally bad sportsmanship? The gold medal winner who started complaining about Ohno---the second place skater---the same day he just won a gold?; February 21, 2010 6:27 AM
Mondchein said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 21, 2010 1:14 PM
Mondchein said...: huh...why ohno can be hero in America?
He is NOT hero.
He is just dirty player. he just push other players.
I hate him.He is not a qualification to get medals.

now he can't get gold again.
he may be say it again.
"Koreans Disrupts me~."
when you stop the Asks for the impossible, ohno.; February 21, 2010 1:21 PM
Fred said...: It's so funny how commenters like "chris" near the top insinuate that Korea is a society of greed.

If there has ever been a society of greed, it's AMERICA.

Say what you want about Ohno, the Korean skaters, or any other individual, but don't extend that discussion to cover entire countries. Sweeping generalizations make your arguments sound worthless.

Because I'm pretty sure that for every negative generalization you make about a society, AMERICA probably ranks up there as the worst.; February 21, 2010 1:25 PM
jihyo said...: It's not only the south korean falt, Ohno pushed the korean guy at first then the korean guy pushed him.; February 21, 2010 1:34 PM
Fred said...: "This Is Me Posting" obviously has some unresolved hatred toward Korea. Anytime someone propositions an entire country to stop playing sports, you know something weird is going on with that guy.

There is unsportsmanlike conduct anywhere you look, people. Peyton Manning didn't shake anyone's hand after losing the Super Bowl this year. Remember Zidane and his head butt against the Italian, who was mocking his family during the World Cup in 2006? How about Serena Williams yelling at a line judge and threatening her? I'm not advocating bad sportsmanship, just pointing out that it's everywhere, in every country, displayed by a lot of different individuals.

Despite this, people like "This Is Me Posting" say KOREA should either learn how to play the game or stop playing sports. Don't you think the same ultimatum could be given to, oh, i don't know, EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD?; February 21, 2010 1:41 PM
Marie said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 21, 2010 2:38 PM
Marie said...: huh...why ohno can be hero in America?
He is NOT hero.He is just crazy guy, asshole.
He is just dirty player. he just push other players.
I hate him.He is not a qualification to get medals.; February 21, 2010 2:44 PM
Brian said...: If anyone is interested I've written a second post about skating, after Ohno placed third in Saturday night's race:

http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2010/02/koreans-first-and-second-in-saturdays.html

I'll repeat a little of what I said over there. My site is among the top Google search results for Ohno, and my site has been linked on tons of Naver blogs and QnA posts, making this probably the most "popular" entry I've ever done. Because this is clearly a sensitive issue---that's one reason I posted about it---I've allowed all kinds of comments. In spite of what some of you think, I haven't deleted any.

Normally, I hold commenters to higher standards, and I delete ones that are inflammatory, disrespectful or racist. I have a lot of first-time visitors today, most of you are Koreans, and I must say your attitude is unacceptable. This is not a cafe, this is not an open board. If you have something to say, if you want to disagree with me or with another commenter, if you want to disagree with Ohno's actions, fine. But do so respectfully. Your vulgarity only makes you look worse.

I've allowed all comments on this thread, but I will not tolerate these sort of comments on my latest thread or on any other posts on my site.; February 21, 2010 2:50 PM
This Is Me Posting said...: @All the Koreans coming into this thread to bitch about Ohno

Please stop making stuff up. We know you hate Ohno. We get it. I may not agree with you, but you're not helping your case when you make shit up.

@Fred

Hatred is far too strong a word.

Furthermore, re-read my posts. Korea cheating/being poor sports isn't an isolated incident.

Sure, there are a million athletes from around the world that are poor sports, but Korea consistently produces self-important, poor sportsmanship, whiny, bitchy athletes. I listed a few in a previous post, but there's been more stories. Furthermore, I've yet to see a Korean athlete win gracefully. I think the only Korean athlete I've ever seen do something nice after a competition is Park Tae-hwan and that's cause the swimmer next to him initiated the handshake (which turned into a hug).

Lastly, I don't think I'm asking too much when I ask that Koreans play fair and not cheat and/or be good sports when they play a game. Its the same technique as when you teach children: When they're being too obnoxious after a win, you tell them to cool it and teach them good sportsman-like conduct. If they do it over and over again or if they constantly cry and bitch when they lose, you tell them: "Okay. We're going to take a break from this until you learn better manners."

Basically, you have to treat/train Koreans like children because they often act like children, as evidenced from the comments being left here by the drive-by posters. If they're consistently acting like children in sporting events, don't ask me to treat them like adults.; February 21, 2010 3:05 PM
jay said...: I've lived in K for quite a few years, so I think I may have an opinion..:)

I don't think sportsmanship is really valued in k-land. The hierarchial mindset pervades everything and the battle for the top and "face" here trumps everything, I mean everything. Top that with a lack of choices (small country, small market) and the idea everyone has to go for the best (maybe Confucianism), that makes for a dangerous brew.

Of course, Korea is one of the leaders of the manufacturing countries, and is rather developing, so the IOC cant ignore them, they have to let them compete.

But remember, a bad party guest rarely gets asked again..

Still...makes sense I wonder?; February 21, 2010 3:41 PM
Brian said...: I don't think anybody can honestly suggest Korea not be permitted to compete. There are examples of fishiness among all countries. And then there's China.

For what it's worth, I think it'd be cool if Pyeongchang got the 2018 Winter Olympics. Not sure about their chances, and I really don't like them pardoning that crook in order to improve their campaign, but if the games were in Gangwon-do it'd get me, at least, to watch a lot of them. (So long as NBC knocks off all this curling.); February 21, 2010 3:44 PM
This Is Me Posting said...: Dude, curling is AWESOME.

I dare anyone who doesn't understand curling to sit down, try and understand the sport and come away still thinking that this isn't awesome. 'Cause that's what a buddy dared me to do, so I did it and I'm a total convert. The skill and strategy and coolness of curling insane.; February 21, 2010 4:11 PM
This Is Me Posting said...: *is insane.; February 21, 2010 4:12 PM
chw said...: "this is me posting" said :
Basically, you have to treat/train Koreans like children because they often act like children, as evidenced from the comments being left here by the drive-by posters. If they're consistently acting like children in sporting events, don't ask me to treat them like adults.

Saying about acting like children, Ohno is an infancy child. Is Ohno a hero? Yes, but just because of the number of medals. He has very childish thought. He doesn't let anyone get something that he wants. If he wants to have something, he can't control himself without having that; Although a means is not right, he does it to have that, like pushing other skater to have medal. What is different with 6 years old child who want to have a toy?
Without mental maturity, he can't be a real hero and the medals he won are just heavy steel scraps.; February 21, 2010 8:58 PM
This Is Me Posting said...: Thank you for proving BOTH my points, chw.

Now go back to trolling.; February 22, 2010 1:37 AM
yo said...: Everyone stop making sweeping generalizations you little immature bitches. That goes for non-Koreans and Koreans alike.; February 22, 2010 10:53 PM
Saemin said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 23, 2010 6:14 PM
joy said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 24, 2010 1:09 AM
joy said...: Hello Puffin,

I really enjoyed your responses. What amazing posts you put!!!

First, I thought this forum is about the sports, especially in short track. You have a great ability to expand one subject to varieties. so, now, are you so great to analyze and criticize Korea? Do you know that well?
How about other countries? how about other countries' mistakes in political and economic issues? Do you have some bad experiences against Korea to expand one matter to make all Koreans looks bad?

I bet if you were in 2002 Olympic games and found out you were disqualified by unfair judge, you would tossed your flag and open up your big mouse right there!!! Do you know why?
You are the person who have so much hates against somethings. What I noticed through your posts, is that you are a just angry person. How pathetic you are!

If you don't know enough about international political and economic policies, would you just shut up?

Koreans are simply shouting out simply because of unfairness and Ohno's arrogant comments.
If one person is hatred by the nation, there are enough reasons.

Okay????; February 24, 2010 1:18 AM
joy said...: This is Me posting,

Wow,

Who are you?
Who do you think you are to judge other's sportsmanship?

Koreans are childish? you are not?
Children are better than sneaky and arrogant adults who think they know everything, just like you.

you are simply so jealous because koreans are so good at this sports.

That is why you put these kinds of responses without any understanding and information.

I feel bad for you.
How pathetic you are!; February 24, 2010 1:35 AM
joy said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 24, 2010 1:36 AM
joy said...: Again Puffin,

If you know Korea better, haven't you seen Korea has been fighting for all of the issues which listed?

They are fighting in and out, sometimes and in jails to make the country a great place to live.
They are protesting for all the important issues, not only for the situation what happened in Salt lake city in 2002.

Second, Everybody can make mistakes. Judges made a huge mistake in 2002 olympic game, and all of Koreans felt the unfairness and protested for the correction.
But, they didn't. how can not angry?

You know what takes to get there and how much the short time of games means.

I just can't believe how people ignore the important factors. is it just whining? no, definitely not.

especially, in the international events, fairness is a important matter. and if something sent wrong, should be corrected. that is the real sportsmanship.

sitting down at some corner and letting other get over them(or us) is not right.

The main reason why Ohno is hated by korean people is because of his arrogant comments and acting like he achieved the medals with his ability when he didn't get those by his skills.

I stopped by this forum, and surprised how people are acting.
I wonder who knows real sportsmanship and it is really sad bunch of people just hate Korea simply because they are so good.; February 24, 2010 3:36 AM
Brian said...: Well, joy, this isn't a forum, it's a comment section.

And talk about "surprised how people are acting," I'm surprised people leave five comments in a row.

Bad sportsmanship isn't something only Koreans do. But there is a trend of complaining about nearly every single international tournament. And the nonsense associated with the cheating in the 1988 Olympics and the 2002 World Cup left a bad taste in many non-Korean mouths.

If you're stateside and watch ESPN or whatever you'll see that American sports fans do a lot of complaining, too, when their teams lose. Korea's nationalism, and nation-wide bellyaching, is due to the local sports leagues not having the same pull as those in other countries. The biggest competition Korean athletes face, and the competitions Koreans care most about, are international ones.; February 24, 2010 3:40 AM
joy said...: Flint,

If you watched many sports games, you not going to say that, "Is any non-korean surprised by the Korean reaction? No."

How would you react that happen for your country?

Whenever I saw any kinds of games, there are always complains and arguments, especially soccer games in Europe and South America.; February 24, 2010 3:43 AM
joy said...: Brian,

You are right that Koreans are nationalism. I do not think that is bad thing. They are cheering for their team at the many international games. I think that is wonderful thing. I live in USA. many of my friends are cheering for their countries too, which is beautiful.

No matter who gets medals, that is fine to many people include Korean people too. However, it is so natural to get mad when we got unfairness.

what i am surprising over here, people are mad at Koreans because they are mad at unfairness. Why??

And, I read Ohno's interviews, no wonder why Koreans are upset.

Moreover, over here, what people talking about Koreans are more than surprising.; February 24, 2010 3:57 AM
JS said...: I really just think it's time to stop reading the Korea Times. Korea as a whole may not be a bastion of journalistic integrity, but the Korea Times manages to outshine most of the media in its retardation of reporting.; February 24, 2010 10:29 AM
This Is Me Posting said...: @Joy

Who are you?
Me. It says so right in my name.

Who do you think you are to judge other's sportsmanship?
Who are you to judge other people's comments and opinions?

Do you really want to play this game, little girl?

Koreans are childish?
Yes.

you are not?
No, I am not.

Children are better than sneaky and arrogant adults who think they know everything, just like you.
Really, you think so? I don't.

Furthermore, I'm not sneaky. Also, its not arrogance when one is correct. Point out one thing I've said that is incorrect. We'll go from there.

you are simply so jealous because koreans are so good at this sports.
AH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Yeah, no. No, I'm really not jealous at all. You misunderstood my points: I think Koreans shame sports. I think that the only Korean who wasn't a complete disgrace was Park Tae Hwan, and even that's debatable. Try again.

That is why you put these kinds of responses without any understanding and information.
No. I write these things BECAUSE of my understanding and information.

On top of ALL THE EXAMPLES I already mentioned, there's the 1988 boxing scandal in which Korea bribed 3 Olympics judges to steal the gold. Korea has a HISTORY of poor sportsmanship and cheating. The only one who doesn't realize it YOU. Do more research please.

I feel bad for you.
The feeling is mutual.

How pathetic you are!
You can think I'm pathetic all you want. I'm still amazingly right. I have no problem with you calling me names. Feel free to do it as much as you want. I'm still right.; February 24, 2010 1:17 PM
Choe said...: This post has been removed by the author.; February 25, 2010 1:17 PM
Brian said...: Choe, there are two sides (or more) to every story. Many of us do know "your" Korea well, so no need to "stop."; February 25, 2010 1:19 PM
Choe said...: PEACE; February 25, 2010 1:20 PM
Choe said...: Well, Brian. You read very fast my comment.
How is it going on "your" country.
why people and you are talking about ALL OF KOREAN. THAT IS JUST SKATING. I can also tell a lot of bullshit of "your" country. SO I SAID STOP, DUDE; February 25, 2010 1:30 PM
Brian said...: "Dude"? Hmm, I don't think your English teacher explained that very well. You'll need to be more polite here, show some respect, AND STOP SHOUTING if you want people to take you seriously.

I agree, it's wrong to criticize all Koreans because of a few bad sports. But, there's more to the Ohno issue than simply a few skaters, and many people here are commenting on 2002---the anti-Americanism that involved thousands upon thousands of Koreans---of which anti-Ohno was a result. If the Ohno incident happened in 2000, it would not have been the same.

It's condescending to make this a Korean versus foreigner issue, or to think that foreigners shouldn't comment on Korea, or to think that it's not okay for foreigners to talk about Korea but it's perfectly fine for you to criticize the US. We have opinions. Some of them you agree with, some of them you don't.; February 25, 2010 1:35 PM
Choe said...: oh. well. you are in Korea, Brian.
that's really surprised. I can understand you now.; February 25, 2010 1:35 PM
Choe said...: You are right some of them.

sorry. I am Korean. I couldn't just watch it that they criticise all Korean. anyway. I WANT REALLY PEACE. take care. I am not english speaker. its hard to explain all of my mind. bye; February 25, 2010 1:49 PM
James said...: Alright, if you guys want to talk crap about other countries, i'll try something too.
Do any of you know what happened on July 14th of 2002? U.S. military vehicle ran over two Korean middle school girls.
http://www.ibiblio.org/ahkitj/wscfap/arms1974/HRS/2002/Stop%20US%20Military%20dossier/4.htm
Then what happened? NOTHING. The driver, and all who should have taken responsibilities did nothing. They went on training like nothing happened. They did apologize but a retard and apologize.; February 25, 2010 2:21 PM
kushibo said...: Brian, in my humblest of opinions, I think it's time to pull the plug on this one.

People have gotten to the point where nothing new is to be said, but people who run across it will respond and then others will react to that response.

161 comments is impressive, and it will surely gather more, but now it's just a rogue comment generating device.; February 25, 2010 2:25 PM
fattycat said...: For once I agree with kushibo ;)

The only reason I'm reading this right now is I cant belive that it's still going.; February 25, 2010 3:31 PM
joy said...: This is Me posting again,

You are not right about that Koreans shame sports. And, your examples are not enough to shine your thought which is that Koreans shame sports. Every countries has examples regarding bad sportsmanship and cheating, compared to so many other countries, Korea's sports are not bad.

To many people,

Most Korean people do not hate Americans. It is too much to mention 'anti-Americanism.'
Several events ( not only sports) have made Koreans angry mainly because of mistreats, but the anger is toward events not to Americans. If you have experience any relationships no matter what (friendship, business, or etc), you will feel Koreans are not hating people; they are caring people. Regarding the nationalism, I find that more over here than Korea. Selfish nationalism is the problem and can bring tensions. Some Koreans has that, so do people in many countries.

It is a great chance to see how foreigners view Korea throughout articles and comments over here even though most comments are negative and some nasty.; February 25, 2010 8:30 PM
Hateohno said...: I'm Korean, I really want to say to Ohno, "Are you crazy?'; February 25, 2010 9:13 PM
This Is Me Posting said...: @Joy

The following might sound harsh, but I promise you I'm saying this without trying to be nasty.

The problem is you're saying one thing, but the actions of your countrymen say something else entirely.

When you say that many events make Koreans angry because of "mistreatment" (to use your word), I say that only Korea has sent DEATH THREATS to Ohno, which prevented him for competing in Korea and only Koreans have shut down the Olympic committee's website with floods of hate mail.

Do you think that's fair? That because KOREANS think they are "mistreated" that they can scare someone so much that he couldn't defend his title in a competition in your country or that they made people work overtime repairing a service they broke?

Here's the thing about sports: Sometimes things work out for you. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes bad calls are made. Sometimes good ones are made. It just seems that every time a bad call is made against Koreans, someone somewhere needs to die or be hated. And it seems that everytime good calls are made, they're blatantly breaking some rules, like taking back two legitimate goals (as an example).

As for your second part, think about this: I was in a conversation with a few friends of mine the other day while talking about the Olympics. I asked people in the most neutral way possible: "When you think about Koreans in sports, what's the first thing that comes to mind?"

EVERYONE answered in almost the exact same way: "Koreans are good at speed skating, women's golf and cheating/ruining the fun." Also, a few of my friends who are big fans of speed skating consider the Koreans to be the meanest, dirtiest skaters on the ice. As one friend put it: "Why do you think they're always getting disqualified for pushing or blocking? Or how those two Koreans were fighting against each other, costing them the silver and bronze? They're vicious skaters."

You may think that people are being negative in this thread, but you should try and take the time to find out what people outside this thread think about Koreans athletes. Your countrymen are building a REPUTATION for cheating, being poor sports or being excessively rough. I can tell you from personal experience that people in my city - just as an example - are now cheering AGAINST the Koreans just because of Lee Jung-Su's comments about Ohno. You see, a lot of people here don't know that Koreans hate Ohno. But they understand when someone says: "Ohno didn't deserve to stand on the same medal platform as me. I was so enraged that it was hard for me to contain myself during the victory ceremony." No one likes hearing that from a gold medal winner. Its low class. Its childish.

To us, that's POOR SPORTSMANSHIP. If you want people to start respecting Korean athletes, they have to EARN the respect first... which they're clearly not.; February 25, 2010 10:49 PM
Puffin Watch said...: Forgive me Joy, but if an upmarket restaurant near Samsung's HQ puts up a sign that says "No Americans" and there seems to be no backlash by Koreans against such a sign, how would you interpret that other than there's deep well of hate for America?

If I ran a business and put up a sign that said "No Koreans", well, I know for a fact Canadians of all stripes would band together to shout me down and boycott my store. If the media, my city councilors, patrons, and the local business community all remained silent on my No Korean signs, one might forgiven in viewing Canadian culture as being anti-Korean.

I remember during the SARS epidemic, which first hit the Canadian chinese community, many Canadian politicians made a big point of eating at Chinese restaurants to show Canadians SARS was not an Asian disease. When H1N1 hit Korea, the Korean government response was. Um. Round up the foreigners. Ban them from going on Blue House tours. Ummm.; February 25, 2010 11:21 PM
Brian said...: Korean women skaters were disqualified in the 3,000-meter-relay yesterday, and because the judge was the same one in the Ohno decision in 2002, some netizens have reacted poorly:

http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2010/02/korean-women-lose-gold-in.html; February 25, 2010 11:27 PM
Brian said...: James, you need to understand the facts of that 2002 incident instead of continuing to perpetuate ignorance.

http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/13/gi-myths-the-2002-armored-vehicle-accident/

You embarrass yourself by that comment, and sensible Koreans ought to apologize to Americans for all the anti-American hatred they showed in 2002-2004.; February 25, 2010 11:30 PM
Brian said...: kushibo, I just saw your comment. I think you're right.

I'm pretty strict about comments, but left this as a designated troll zone.

See, people, everyone who complains about how I run my comment section. How would you like to deal with this at the bottom of every single post?; February 25, 2010 11:33 PM