Topic: Canon Fl 19mm f3.5R conversion to Canon EF

The lens:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/fllenses/Canon_FL_19mm_A.jpg

from this webpage:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/co … /index.htm



Unfortunately,  I didn't think to document the tear down of this lens,  but it's pretty simple.  Like many FL lenses,  there's a nut on the very rear element, which, when removed,  allows all the optics to slide out the front in a handy capsule.

In the first picture,  you can see the "rear cup"  which forms pretty much the main outer body.  the focus helix assembly threads into it.   first step is to remove the "step"  shown below  to allow the helix to thread further back into the outer body,  thus allowing the optics to move further to the rear:

http://i31.tinypic.com/23mjur7.jpg

In order to do this  (and you could with a dremel tool)   I threaded the focus helix (brass)  into the body  for support,  and used a parting tool on the lathe to cut this step off.   In this way I had more support for the thin aluminum, as well as protecting the threads.  There's an unthreaded area on the brass helix,  so it's undamaged.

http://i25.tinypic.com/307nura.jpg

The second thing preventing the helix from screwing further into the outer body, is a snap ring groove behind the threads  (snap ring no longer used)   I used a boring bar  to cut back this groove.    Once again,  you could do this CAREFULLY   with your dremel

http://i31.tinypic.com/2ugf9lx.jpg

In the next shots below,  we can see how the helix goes deeper into the outer body,  the bottom of the inner cup now touches the bottom of the outer body on the backside:

http://i30.tinypic.com/2vvtmxy.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/300tooo.jpg

The next thing we do, in the shot below,  to move the optics to the rear,  is simply mount the optics in the helix   and swap the little brass spacer  (factory)  from the INSIDE  of the cup bottom  to the OUTSIDE, immediately under the retainer nut.

http://i25.tinypic.com/2evyedi.jpg

Below, we can begin to see "it all."   This is the order of assembly.   I've left off the outer focus control ring,  and for now,  do not know the calibration.   I simply screwed the helix all the way to the bottom,  and attached the outer focus ring to the closest "hole match"  with the numerals past infinity.  I may later re-drill if necessary  to get the calibrations accurate.

http://i28.tinypic.com/nf05rr.jpg

In the shot below,  the lens is temporarily together,  waiting for the adapter in the mail.  Here (on the right)  is the assembled lens,  and on the left,  the damaged (second lens)  outer body.  The point is,  the brass lug you see is the retainer  which keeps the lens from turning as you focus.  This PREVIOUSLY  mounted on the INSIDE  of the bottom of the outer body,  and as you can see here,  I've ground a clearance slot in the outer body,  allowing the lug to mount on the OUTSIDE of the body.   When the adapter (mount)  arrives,   I'll have to grind a clearance slot in the rear mount for that brass piece to clear.

http://i30.tinypic.com/34hds84.jpg

Below,  another shot of the nearly complete assembly.  You can barely see the brass lug which retains the optics from rotating during focus,  now mounted on the outside rear.  The lens is lying on the old M/A  ring,  which may be later re-mounted.  You can see how far in this first "try"  the infinity mark is past the marker.  Of course I'll have no idea how this relates until I get it mounted to the M39 -to- EF adapter

http://i32.tinypic.com/14o0m7o.jpg


A couple of other notes:    The outer body of this lens is rather small,  so there's not really enough "meat" on an M42 adapter to leave room for screws,  so I've ordered an M39 adapter.       The original rear  "M/A"  control ring will no longer function.  I'll probably,  once tested and satisfied,  simply epoxy  that ring on the rear  for  "originality."    What remains to be seen, of course,  is whether this thing will be worth the trouble.    I ALSO   at this point have no idea  whether  this will clear the mirror on some cameras.    I do not intend to install the original  stop lug,  so the villiage idiot will be able to simply unscrew the lens if not paying attention.  However,  I've determined that you'll be able to focus  AT LEAST  one full turn  from  "normal"  and still be able to screw things back together.     

Waiting for the adapter........

Last edited by 440roadrunner (2010-12-01 16:02:15)

Re: Canon Fl 19mm f3.5R conversion to Canon EF

Thanks!! I was trying to convert my FL 55/1.2 but was not able to disassembly it.

Yashica FX-D, Yashica FX-2, Yashinon 15/2.8, Distagon 25/2.8,  Flektogon 35/2.4, Planar 50/1.4, Rokkor 58/1.2, Planar 85/1.4, Planar 135/2, Sonnar 180/2.8, Takumar 300/4, Rubinar 500/5.6.
Rolleiflex Planar, Rollei Magic II, Yashica Mat-EM, Zeiss Ikonta, Zeiss Super-Ikonta.

Re: Canon Fl 19mm f3.5R conversion to Canon EF

I don't know about the FL 55 1.4,   but I got into deep trouble on 50mm 1.4

This was my attempt.  "Fortunately"   tinypix  removed the aftermath,  so you don't have to become ill.  It was not pretty.

http://forum.manualfocus.org/viewtopic.php?id=9122

BUT BE CAREFUL.    I also have an FL55 1.4 II  and it is constructed entirely different,  in fact I haven't yet figured how to deal with it.

Re: Canon Fl 19mm f3.5R conversion to Canon EF

I still am unable to understand how a 42mm registered lens can make infinity on a 44mm registered body! I'm going by memory as to EOS and FD registration measurements, sorry if I am in error.

meniscus

Re: Canon Fl 19mm f3.5R conversion to Canon EF

meniscus, 42mm is the distance from the film / sensor to the lens mount, not to the rear element of the lens.

By machining the lens barrel, you can situate all of the optics of the lens closer to the imaging surface. However, you can get in trouble here because the lens protrudes farther into the camera and can get in the way of the mirror.

Re: Canon Fl 19mm f3.5R conversion to Canon EF

awldune wrote:

meniscusBy machining the lens barrel, you can situate all of the optics of the lens closer to the imaging surface........................


Exactly,  and if you  re-read  my description of what I've done so far,  that IS the purpose---modification of the lens assembly  in order to move the optics,  that is,  the rear element,  further to the rear  so that when mounted in the end,  it will be the same distance as it was originally  on the FD/FL  bodies.    Most of these  FL  series lenses that I've had apart  have all the optics  in a handy   sub-assembly,   so focus is merely the mechanics necessary  to screw the optics assembly in or out as necessary,  and of course to the rear far enough to obtain infinity.

To itemise,   we have:

1.  Thrown away  the rear part of the mount,  which moves things a little to the rear

2.  Machined the lens body so the helix screws further back into the outer body

3.  Cut back the mentioned   snap ring groove,  finally allowing the inner rear  "cup"  to bottom out on the outer body

4.  Removed the factory brass spacer ring  and relocated it to the REAR of the mounting cup,  thus moving the optics assembly to the rear.

5.  Remounted the retainer lug  which prevents the inner guts from rotating during focus.   This was originally on the INSIDE of the outer body cup,  and therefore prevented  the guts from screwing all the way back into the body.   By remounting this lug on the OUTSIDE  of the outer cup,  the "guts"  can therefore come clear back.   I'll have to provide clearance for this lug in the face of the mount adapter

6.  The adapter--when it gets here--will be M39 to Canon EF,  and will be machined just a few thousands, say, .020",  mostly to insure centering of the body on the new mount.   This of course will add a little more to the "move to the rear"  process.

I've already tested this by handholding it up against an EF-to-M42 adapter,  and I already at this point have  "past infinity"   so we should be OK

The last goal, once everything is mounted,  is to have the helix engage at the magic point,  and have the outer focus ring mount in rotational index such that the distance scale is meaningful.      This may or may NOT  be so obtainable.

Also,   if anything is likely to cause mirror interferance,  it is the remaining prong  which originally activated the aperture auto stop down.  This now is completely non-functional  (the lens is now completely manual stop-down)   so if necessary  I'll cut the prong off short.

Last edited by 440roadrunner (2010-07-16 22:39:59)

Re: Canon Fl 19mm f3.5R conversion to Canon EF

I used an FL 19mm/3.5 with my Canon outfit for years back in the 80s and 90s, and I loved that lens.  I think that you'll really enjoy it once you've finished this project.

I got away from Canon FD for about 20 years, and recently have bought back into the system.  I wouldn't mind getting another 19mm, but the dang things sure are pricey nowadays whenever I find one.  The old non-AI Nikkor 20mm f/3.5 can often be had for less, and I can use it with adapters on both my EOS and FD cameras.  So I'll probably end up going with that one instead.

Which begs the question -- any particular reason why you selected the Canon FL 19mm over the Nikkor 20mm?  I've always regarded them as equivalents.

Last edited by cooltouch (2010-07-18 19:33:29)

Re: Canon Fl 19mm f3.5R conversion to Canon EF

cooltouch wrote:

................. begs the question -- any particular reason why you selected the Canon FL 19mm over the Nikkor 20mm? .



Sometimes I guess I get carried away.    I haven't found,  or looked too awfully hard for a Nikon 20mm    The damaged copy of this lens was pretty cheap---mixed in with a kit of Canon stuff,  but now of course I've bought a second copy.    Now that I'm "in this deep"   I'm hoping to find yet another with damaged optics  for a to repair the first lens.

Of course "there's something"   about having a nice old Canon brand  on your Canon DSLR!!

Re: Canon Fl 19mm f3.5R conversion to Canon EF

I admire your skill and tenacity in this (to me overwhelming) project. People ask why we do things....because we can!

meniscus

Re: Canon Fl 19mm f3.5R conversion to Canon EF

Ok,  got things  a little further along today.   I received the "39mm"  adapters from Virtual Village and I AM NOT HAPPY.   These were advertised as  "M39 to EF"  adapters,  but they are NOT.  What they ARE  is M42 adapters with 39mm bushings screwed in.   The important point here is that I was looking for more "meat" to use as a mounting, and was under the (mistaken) impression that these were  "one piece."

Anyhow,  the first picture below shows that I've turned a small relief into the face for centering the lens shell--not absolutely necessary,  and am tapping the holes for 2-56.  The procedure is:

Drill "tap" size holes in the bottom of the lens shell in appropriate places, not critical,  but MUST  be as far to outside as possible.

Locate lens  shell in adapter,  drill ONE  tap hole through adapter

Tap first hole in adapter.

Ream matching hole in shell for clearance,  then start first screw to locate shell on adapter  for alignment of next hole. 

Drill  start of second hole using tap size drill,  then dissasemble, drill and  tap hole,  ream clearance hole in lens shell,  assemble with TWO  screws

Last,  drill last tap hole and tap,  ream last hole in shell for clearance,  and finally,  (I used twist drill)  countersink holes inside of shell.

I intended to leave the M39 bushing  in the adapter for added "meat"  but later removed it because of the focus locator prong

http://i31.tinypic.com/4tvxqa.jpg

Below,  you can see the adapter mounted to the outer lens shell,  and the rest of the assembly ready to screw into the focus helix

http://i26.tinypic.com/2wdt0fc.jpg

Below, a view showing the countersunk screws inside the outer shell.   You can also see the "anti-rotate" prong installed which is now on the OUTSIDE bottom of the shell.  This, again,  is to allow for more rear setback of the lens

http://i29.tinypic.com/rbfmo3.jpg

Below,  the clearance ground with a dremel for the focus "anti-rotate" prong.  It was not pretty  You can also see that the adjacent mounting screw is breaking through the thread wall of the M42 threads--this illustrates why I was wishing for an adapter with a smaller  I.D.

http://i30.tinypic.com/vepyk9.jpg

Below, a couple of shots of the lens  as "functional"  I have not yet --and may not-- mount the original  M/A  selector ring,  but it would make the assembly look more original.  I simply cut and ground off the mounting screws--they may need more attention, later

The focus ring calibrations are not--calibrated that is,  and it turns out I built in PLENTY  of rear offset,  that is, it goes WAYYYYYY  past infinity,  so setback was not an issue.   

http://i31.tinypic.com/2j0d186.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/w8luh2.jpg

Below,  we have a crop of a quick test shot.  This thing looks like it's gonna have GREAT color rendering.    I cropped it to try to show  the close roof and tree to the right across the street, as well as the hilltop some distance away,  on which I used magnified live view to focus.   Taken with Canon 7D, and other than cropped and scaled, completely unedited, unsharpened, etc.

http://i28.tinypic.com/30lmjo5.jpg

Below are some fullsize crops  from the original shot, again, unsharpened, unedited:

First   a hubcap at the extreme bottom of the original frame, about 20 ft from the camera.

http://i26.tinypic.com/2wlr9z7.jpg

The far hilltop:

http://i26.tinypic.com/2h7jp5i.jpg

and the gas vent on the house across the street just below

http://i25.tinypic.com/2142sdu.jpg

Last a snippet from the extreme left of the original frame,  showing some distortion there.

http://i25.tinypic.com/m986eo.jpg

Last edited by 440roadrunner (2010-07-24 01:54:19)

Re: Canon Fl 19mm f3.5R conversion to Canon EF

and finally,  tonight,  I went down to the East end of Lake Coeur d Alene.  The sunset was not that great,  it's sure hard to tell.   The image has been scaled down, that is all.  Taken with Canon 7d.    Check out the airplane,  top left corner.   I believe this was stopped down to f8,  ISO 200

http://i31.tinypic.com/2w3z1go.jpg

Last edited by 440roadrunner (2010-07-24 04:42:50)