Battleland

Why Japan Is Still Not Sorry Enough

Army photo / Getty Images

December 1947: Former Japanese prime minister and minister of war Hideki Tojo (1885 - 1948) takes the stand to testify in his own defense at the war crimes trial in Tokyo. Tojo was convicted and executed.

Keen observers know that Japan’s ugly territorial disputes with its neighbors aren’t really about fishing grounds or oil and gas reserves or ancient historical claims. What they’re about is that the Japanese still – still – won’t admit they did anything wrong during the Second World War or during their long colonial rule in Asia.

That’s how the neighbors see it, anyway. And it explains why arguments with China and South Korea over  islands of questionable value have turned into volatile confrontations. Armed ships are conducting rival patrols around the Senkaku (Diaoyu) Islands, which Japan controls but are claimed by China; Japan and South Korea are in a bitter feud over Dokdo (Takeshima) Island, which South Korea controls but which Japan claims.

(MORE: Japan: A Wave of Patriotism)

Now comes author Thomas U. Berger to explain why Japan is viewed as so unrepentant. Some 20 million people died and millions more were subjugated and oppressed during Japan’s half-century of war and colonial expansion, which ended in 1945.

Cambridge University Press

In a new book, War, Guilt and Politics After World War II, Berger says a complex web of culture, politics, geography and shifting notions of justice have made it more difficult for the Japanese to apologize for past transgressions than other societies. That’s particularly true compared to Germany, whose crimes outstripped even those of Japan, but which has largely reconciled with former victims.

Berger is an associate professor of international relations at Boston University and a frequent traveler to Japan; he is currently lecturing at Tokyo’s Keio University.   I chatted with Berger about his book via email this week. Here are excerpts:

Why did you decide to write this book?

I had done research previously on the impact of historical issues on defense and foreign policy in both Germany and Japan. So when disputes flared up in the 1990s over how Japan was dealing with its past, a number of my friends thought it would be a natural topic for me to look at. I wrote a couple of essays and thought I could spin off a quick book, but it took close to 14 years to get it out.

Why so long? 

As I worked on the topic, I became convinced that political scientists and policy makers do not have a very good handle on what drives the politics of history. I was forced to read a lot of material from different fields to help me make sense of it.

(PHOTOS: China: Island Dispute Spurs Anti-Japan Protests)

Also, on a more personal note, I found myself talking often with my parents about their experiences. My mother lived in Germany during the war, experienced bombings, lost many of her school friends and eventually was driven out of her home. My father came from Vienna, and though a Christian, was of Jewish background and therefore was forced to flee after the Nazis annexed Austria in 1938. Their experiences brought to life for me the reality of the times, and how individuals had to try to deal with the aftermath of the war. I hope it didn’t damage my objectivity – I don’t think that it did. But it did help make it a very personal project on a certain level.

What did you find out? Is Japan as unrepentant about its past as its neighbors claim?

Yes. But it’s not as simple as that.

It’s true, Japan has not been as repentant as Germany or other countries that have faced up to the darker sides of their past. Japan has apologized for waging aggressive war and oppressing its neighbors, but those apologies have fumbling and awkward, and often been undercut by revisionist statements from senior politicians. Japan has offered relatively little compensation to the victims. And to this day there are no nationally sponsored museums or monuments that acknowledge Japanese aggression or atrocities.

But Japan has been far more repentant than is often credited. Prime ministers have repeatedly offered apologies for their country’s misdeeds. Japan has sponsored joint historical research with both South Korea and China. Most Japanese school textbooks deal with issues like the Nanjing massacre and the colonial oppression of Koreans in a fairly open manner. Opinion polls suggests that most Japanese feel their country did things in Asia for which the country should apologize.

So why can’t the Japanese just say, “We were wrong. We’re sorry”?

Apologizing is a costly business for leaders of any country, and requires the investment of a great deal of political capital. Apologies tend to be given when there is a belief that those apologies will be accepted, at least in part, and that dialogue between the two sides will be advanced.  So unless there are strong reasons to do so, most leaders avoid it.

American readers may recall how difficult it has been for us to come to terms with the legacy of slavery and institutionalized racism. Issues like the atomic bombings of Japan and the massacre of insurgents in the Philippines remain difficult for American politicians to address — if they are aware of them as issues at all.

The problem is, in China and Korea there has been very little readiness to accept Japan’s efforts to promote reconciliation, and as a result, those efforts have tended to founder.

So it’s all Japan’s fault?

No, the Koreans and the Chinese bear a large share of the blame. With the Koreans, there has been an unwillingness to help the Japanese find ways of reconciling when the Japanese have tried to do so. This was most apparent with the Asian Women’s Fund, which the Korean government did not support and in fact subverted by establishing a separate, rival support system for the former comfort women. This has been made worse by the tendency of Korean politicians to score cheap points by very publicly taking out their frustrations with Japan — as when President Lee Myung-bak went to Dokdo/Takeshima recently.

There is good reason to question whether the Chinese really want or care about reconciliation.  When Jiang Zemin went to Tokyo in 1998, he hectored the Japanese about the past in ways that prevented the Japanese from offering the kind of written apology that they gave South Korea President Kim Dae-jung that same year.

Chinese leaders have preferred taking a hard line on Japan. This has been especially so when there are divisions in the Chinese leadership, and on a deeper level may have something to do with the Chinese leadership being deeply worried about their legitimacy. While Korean leaders are frequently unpopular, there is strong support for the Korean political system and pride in its democratic institutions, but Chinese leaders need to strike a nationalistic tone in part because there is greater internal skepticism about one-party rule.

Most other countries in Asia seemed to have moved on, haven’t they? Why are things different China and Korea? Was it because the occupations lasted longer, or because more people were killed there?

A lot of people died in Indonesia, Vietnam, and elsewhere, too. But Southeast Asians have been generally willing to forgive the Japanese. And the Japanese were in Taiwan even longer than in Korea, but anti-Japanese attitudes there are weak or non-existent.

To my mind, the key difference is how modern nationalism was created in those countries. Chinese and Korean nationalism is in many ways defined itself against Japan. In contrast, the national identity of most Southeast Asian countries was defined in opposition to their old colonial masters. In Indonesia, the focus was the Dutch, in Malaysia it was the British, and in the Philippines it was the United States. Taiwan is also instructive here, since the pro-democratic movement focused its resentment against domination by mainland China, first under the Nationalists and more recently against the PRC.

O.K., so what’s next? China has new leadership; Shinzo Abe is likely to become the new prime minister of Japan this month; and South Korea is holding new elections as well. Will that help?

I am not too optimistic, at least over the short term – the next five years or so.

There is a genuine chance for an improved relationship between Japan and South Korea. They both have strong common interests. They share many common values. Both are decent, democratic societies. In contrast to the past, the Japanese have come to respect and even admire the Koreans, while the Koreans have won back their self confidence and can afford to be more magnanimous towards their former oppressors.

Unfortunately, there are lots of signs that the Abe administration is coming into office thinking it will be firm but conciliatory with China, but really dump on the Koreans. They appear to be thinking about revoking the Kohno statement on the Comfort Women and may do some other things on historical issues that the Koreans will find highly provocative. This would enrage the Koreans and may lead to their taking counter steps.

With the Chinese, the gap in interests as well as perceptions is too big to allow for the pursuit of reconciliation, and even a more limited strategy of damage control may prove impossible. The new Xi administration shows every sign of wanting to continue to push the Senkaku/Diaoyu issue further, and China may even choose to escalate the pressure in the pring. Since Chinese claims are based on a particular reading of history that is very critical of Japan, there is little or no chance that the two sides will be able to dampen the nationalist passions that are feeding the crisis in the East China Sea.

Hopefully, cooler heads on all sides — perhaps with behind-thescenes help from the United States — can persuade the governments not to escalate the issue to dangerous levels. But the possibility of further riots, diplomatic crises and possibly even clashes involving paramilitary forces around the disputed territories is all too real.

114 comments
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ronald
ronald

One important factor which he does not examine is the role of the royal family. there has been tacit agreement that the emperor was not involved in the war even though records as to the royal family have not been released for historical examination. One wonders whether the royal family was involved and if further examination were to reveal such a link the foundations of the one the pillars of japan would be sent tumbling. the royal family and many of the instiutions have little interest in such an examination.

Also as head of state one wonders why the royal family have been so silent in their apologies. It is rather their silence that has contributed to a other states wondering they are really repentant about their actions. I would also argue that they also are also need to apologise to the Japanese people. The 3 days silence after the first atomic bomb makes one wonder if they had a more sinister plot in mind.

However, this said. This does not enable the Chinese government to blanket the present generation of Japanese as hating Chinese people. However much Japan do not want to admit it they have a lot in common and much to gain from working together. The story of the Japanese saint Kobo Daishi is a good example of this.

BWP123
BWP123

The author of this piece touches appropriately on the intractability and manipulation of sentiments and the construction of national identity in China and S. Korea as having occurred against the backdrop of Japanese colonialism, imperialism, occupation, and war crimes. What I would like to see added to this and every other discussion of this legacy  is the degree to which the construction of Japanese national identity was itself constructed, and continues to renew itself, by way of both historic assessments of the Chinese and Koreans, and by contemporary affirmations of Japanese homogeneity (the "Yamato race" that has "occupied the islands for thousands of years") that deny the existence within Japan of excluded, underrepresented "others" (Koreans, Ainu, women, "burakumin" etc.), and which occludes the economic, social, legal antagonisms which characterize contemporary dysfunction in Japan. These contribute to the unlikelihood that Japanese will be able to re-foundation their understanding of what the Great Asian Pacific War was. No museums memorializing Japanese war crimes is an important symptom; but the disease at the root of the drive to war still has persuasive power in Japan today:  a conception of the organic community disturbed by modernity that intruded upon Japan's communal space, and which the Japanese sought to incorporate through destroying and subjugating the bodies of Chinese and Korean masses. Today, there is still tremendous attachment, even among Japanese who recognized excessive violence in the war's history, to the idea that the war was an outcome of the pressure Japan felt from the intruding presence of Western powers, and the certainty that Japanese domination had something better to offer the people of Asia, if they had only been able to receive it. It's going to take a great lot of internal education and gaiatsu (foreign pressure) for the Japanese to reappraise their past to where it is understood in such a way that "being sorry" will no longer provide an intolerable provocation within Japanese minds and political circles.

sandifjm
sandifjm like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

I spent nearly a decade living and working in Japan, and this topic is incredibly frustrating, and depressing.  Mostly because nothing ever changes, and one can't escape the feeling that things will never improve, and the countries of east Asia will not ever be able to move on.

The Japanese have apologized on numerous occasions, but in most cases, they have perceived by the Koreans and the Chinese as being vague and insincere, and rightly so.  As well, the annual visits by senior politicians (including some Prime Ministers) to the controversial Yasukuni shrine, as well as the constant attempts by right-wing elements to change the version of history taught in Japanese schools, merely reinforces the perception that the Japanese are not really sorry at all.

For their parts, the Korean, and ESPECIALLY the Chinese governments rely on the Japanese "bogeyman" to fire up nationalistic fervor, and distract from their own shortcomings.  It's true that the Japanese brutalized the Chinese in the 1930s, but the Chinese Communist Party are brutalizing the Chinese in 2012, and they would very much like to keep everyone's minds off of that fact.

The biggest problem of all with regards to conversations around Japan's wartime guilt, are that in Japan, they tend to take place among expatriates, or like here, in western magazines and media outlets.  It's not something that the average Japanese person ever talks about, and to go even further, most are completely ignorant of Japan's wartime activities.  Japan largely views its role in WWII as that of victim. Which is why every August, the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are commemorated nation-wide, and yet there is never any acknowledgment of what was done that caused the B-29s to come calling.

When I lived over there, I worked in Research and Development.  My Japanese colleagues were, for the most part, very well-educated, and more worldly than the average Japanese citizen (it was a foreign company). And yet, the sheer level of ignorance with regards to WWII, and Japan's role in it, was astounding.  They genuinely had very little idea because the distorted view of events that continues to exist there is barely taught in schools, and never discussed.  To sum it up briefly, the Japanese went to Asia to liberate their neighbours from colonial oppression at the hands of the western powers.  They then established what is referred to euphemistically as "The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere".  Everyone else would recognize it as simple, brutal colonization.  Then there was a misunderstanding at Pearl Harbor, followed by the bombing of their cities, and the eventual, "criminal" nuclear attacks in August 1945.

In this respect, the standard comparison between Japan and Germany is quite illuminating.  EVERY German born since the war knows what the Nazis did and although I don't believe in children paying for the "sins of their fathers", there is a collective awareness there, that borders on guilt.  No such thing exists in Japan, and until the nation as a whole really makes the effort to come to grips with its ugly past, then all of the empty gestures and hollow apologies from Japanese officials will continue to fall on deaf ears in China and Korea, and they will continue to use the issue as a weapon with which to attack Japan, and distract their domestic populations from their own problems.

redaer
redaer

@sandifjm You should read the article properly. 

It says that Japan's prime ministers have repeatedly offered apologies, it's wrongdoings during the WWII is fairly openly discussed and taught at the schools, and most Japanese citizens acknowledge what it has done to Asian countries. Your "more worldly Japanese colleagues at a foreign company" (what a snobbery...) does not represent ordinary Japanese at all.

kurazy
kurazy

@sandifjm I think your observation is correct and this is the biggest problem unfortunately.

Because Japanese are rejecting educating that the Japanese invasions of other East Asian countries pre-WWII and during WWII and what they have done during those times, many Japanese are vulnerable to new ways of education and how they initially absorb the new information. As you mentioned, there is surprisingly growing number of % of textbooks that are selected every year in grade school levels that flat out deny these massacres, and Japanese war efforts. 

Compared with German efforts which they teach details of the Nazi parties and LEARN from their mistakes.

What Chinese and Korean governments have been asking in the past is acknowledging their faults in the past and fix in the future. Japanese government simply has not done this. 

It is not normal Japanese people's ignorance that should be criticized but their ignorance of fixing the problems in the future and how they denied acknowledging their past crimes.

jollyfryer
jollyfryer like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

And once again we have a biased anti-Japan hit piece from a western media outlet, sure to be popular with the anti-Japan crowd that looks for every little excuse to engage in their irrational Japan bashing.

How ironic that these very same people and media outlets are doing the same things to the Japanese that they accuse the Japanese themselves of doing (whitewashing history, etc.).

The government of Japan HAS apologized numerous times, on the official record, to various nations for its past war time conduct. Japan HAS given compensation to various nations for its past war time and colonial conduct, including South Korea. In fact, in the 1965 normalization treaty with South Korea, the then government of South Korea refused Japan's offer to individually compensate victims, and instead used that money and billions more to rebuild and modernize South Korea (much of which contributed to South Korea's stunning economic success the past few decades). The government of South Korea also agreed not to pursue any further claims for compensation in the future. The South Korean nationalists recent campaign of misinformation and demonization of all things Japanese, the deliberate lies about issues such as comfort women (which has been happening in other countries like the United States), is reprehensible.

As for China's island disputes, suffice to say China did not give two rat's behind about these islands until oil reserves were discovered in the area in the late 1960's. These recent riots in China have nothing to do with past war time incidents, but everything to do with the Chinese government stirring up hatreds to further their own agendas.

All you Japan haters should be ashamed of yourselves. You are nothing but hypocrites, engaging in the very same actions you tar all Japanese with.

jameskim235
jameskim235

@jollyfryer Japan did not apologize ACTUALLY. Because 1) Japan claims Dokdo island that Japan occupied in Imperial Japan. 2) Japan does not teach childrens the right facts about the war and even old history of Korea. Japan has manipulated the history. 3) Japan has denied the GOVERNMENT LEVEL involvement of women-salvery at the war time which can not be accepted by Korea 4) Continuing denial of the invasion by top officials over decades saying it was contribution of modernization of the region 5) Continuing vising Yasukuni Shrine by top officials. There is no exaggeration on these.Read more: http://nation.time.com/2012/12/11/why-japan-is-still-not-sorry-enough/#ixzz2F4LJlMRi

ayuuu324
ayuuu324

@jollyfryer You rather are a probably one of those Japanese wannabe Otaku's. You are probably from that Japan Probe site that bashes Chinese and Koreans and worship Japanese people.

FuzzyPotato
FuzzyPotato

@ayuuu324 @jollyfryer Ayuuu, this might come as a surprise to you, but...most otaku (that's without an s, by the way) don't really bother with this aspect of Japanese history and culture.  As @epitygxanwn rightly points out, ad hominems really don't do you any favors.

nerdyS
nerdyS

Hey jollyfryer, wait a minute. You should read the article to the end. The latter half is NOT criticizing the Japanese. I think the article as a whole is quite fair to the Japanese..

epitygxanwn
epitygxanwn

@nerdyS But why are you so sure he did not read it to the end? The article is not so fair to the Japanese, it does not give them credit for what they have done not only to apologize, but to be much more open to foreigners than any time before in their history. Nor does it give them credit for helping to build the Chinese economy by moving so much of their own manufacturing to China.

epitygxanwn
epitygxanwn

@nerdyS I see. But as you admit, they were really terrible then. To say that the current article was fair by comparison with those is not saying very much at all:(

nerdyS
nerdyS

epitygxanwn, I just wanted to say that the article was quite fair in comparison to Japan-themed articles in the western media outlet around 10 years ago when Koizumi repeatedly visited the Yasukuni Shrine. They were really terrible then. It seems to me that things have changed.

ibrad
ibrad like.author.displayName 1 Like

I wish the world would ask Tibet about the peace loving people of China ?

epitygxanwn
epitygxanwn

@ibrad China's human rights abuses in Tibet are a good example of how evil the Chinese government has become. There are others. They have no right to point their fingers at the Japanese until they apologize to all the people destroyed by the rise of Communism and other human rights abuses in China or done by China.

whale987
whale987

Yes, human right abuses in Tibet are wrong, but at the same time, it is questionable whether Tibet and Taiwan should try to secede from China.  If Alaska and Hawaii tried to secede from the US, I doubt the US would let that happen peacefully.  When the confederate states tried to secede, a civil war broke out.

testdev
testdev

@whale987 The Japanese are not the Daleks. The Chinese are not cybermen. We are all human. People can change. Political leaders on both sides try to stop this because the status-quo benefits them. Asian, middle east, black/white relations can be improved. Dialogue is the only way. However the current leadership is not working. The US is leading from behind and staying out of these issues instead of being on the forefront of them. The US is needed because it is the only nation that can bring all to the table. However it is not politically popular. Americans are tired of helping the world and paying for these kind of problems. Do you want to fix the problem? Then demand from your leaders... Ask them to setup non-profits and have future leaders in college in high school go to each others countries. Have both spend a year in each other's shoes. Meet each others friends and families. Show a Japanese person that China can be a friend and let them do the same. Then in 10-20 years go to negotiate. Both sides will know more and see the true people on the other side of the table. Then and only then will both get to the next phase of political evolution. My point ... We need to know each other beyond our flags and mottos. We need to see each other as people.

epitygxanwn
epitygxanwn

@whale987 Now you are beginning to think in a manner informed by history. Yes, the US Civil War established that the States do NOT have the right of secession. But you need to go further: you need to consider, no one IS arguing for Tibetan Secession, least of all the Dalai Lama himself, who have made it quite clear he is only interested in autonomy, he has given up the drive for independence, restoring the status quo before the Communist invasion of the 50s. But back to the matter at hand: China is using weak Japanese apologies as an excuse for advancing their diabolical goals, it is NOT a genuine reason for claiming the Senkaku islands, rattling sabers not just at Japan, but at the Phillippines, Taiwan and Korea as well.

whale987
whale987

You have discovered me. A Time Lord am I.

testdev
testdev

As for the islands -  I claim them under Article 50 of the Shadow Proclamation.

testdev
testdev

If every person in the world keeps hating their neighbor then the human race is destined for destruction. How hard is it to hate the person after you meet them? Dont judge a people by a government or something they did in the past. At one time or another every nation has been a victim. No one excuses the past but it is the past and not the present. If you wish to hate then I suggest you take a trip to Kyoto or Tokyo. Go meet a few Japanese people and then decide. I say meet a few because the first few may be annoying. Keep an open mind and forget what parents or government says. Hate from your own experiences and not from pages in an old text book. Hate should be earned much like respect and should not be given freely. If you still hate after then at least your view is based in the present and based on individual interaction and not what you learned as a child. Example of ignorance: Should I expect an apology from the British for their aggression and abuses during their colonial oppression and occupation of the U.S.? In fact they fought two wars with us and supported the destruction of the U.S. during the civil war. Maybe the Irish will complain with us ... No it is not my war ,,,, This isnt your war ...

JUYang
JUYang

Most people don't know how Japan was cruel in the past. The world just believes the distorted Japanese history..Japanese troops invaded Korea and then forced Koreans to change the family names to the Japanese names which were valued as much as a life. Also they dragged over 2,000,000 women and kids for sex slave as comport women. Over 3,000,000 citizens were tortured and massacred. That was the past but should not forget the history. Because history makes the future. When If I compare the attitude of Germany and Japan which were committed a war crime after world war 2. Germany has apologized about the past exhaustively. Germany compensated and rewarded several billions of dollars to Jews and Israel. But, Japan ended up in three hundred millions of dollars. Germany is educating all the citizens include children about the circumstances of their crime of world war 2, whereas Japan is trying to conceal almost the whole crime. Besides, Germany admitted as "defeated" by losing in the war, but Japan expresses as "the end of the war". At that time, Germany articulated the Allied Forces are the occupation forces, but Japan expresses as the stationary forces. When Japan put it that way, we don't know who is ended in a victory or a defeat. Japan is assuming such as this attitude, how could the neighbors trust Japan?

epitygxanwn
epitygxanwn like.author.displayName 1 Like

@JUYang How can this possibly be true? Japan's human rights abuses during and leading up to World War II are far too well known for that. But there is an even more important lesson from that dark history, a lesson you have not yet learned: that it is militarism that does this to a people, making them so cruel. Once freed from militarism and reconstructed under General MacArthur's rule, the Japanese people have been able to let their better side of their nature shine: a productive, energetic people with a great appreciation for  aesthetics that goes far beyond a beauty that is only skin deep -- but still with far too much tolerance for the Yakuza and the corruption that goes with it.

Now it is China that is in the grips of this militarism. They are the ones building up their military to be a serious threat to world peace, they are the ones with a huge nuclear stockpile they can only use for incredibly evil purposes. North Korea is not far behind.

testdev
testdev

@JUYang Name one nation that is perfect. Also, how do you quantify how "they" are evil and your nation is not? All governments are made by man. Man is flawed therefore ALL governments are flawed. Will an apology really make it better? Will it ever be good enough? I think not. The fact is China and Korea are oerlooking the issue. They are resurrecting Japanese nationalism. Something America all but killed. When I lived there I was so surprised how quickly the common Japanese person hated their own nation. Out of the 20 something nations I have been to only the Japanese hated themselves. Dont believe all that you read in the Chinese party papers. Japan not China has officially renounced war. This is why America is stuck defending it. Most of Japanese people are over idealistic and have some unrealistic view they can be the Switzerland of the Pacific. You see this wish for peace as weakness. I know I see it as a weakness. Anyways the hate speak has increased over the last few years. This makes them common Japanese person "revaluate their relationship." Those words scare me  because I do not want a militaristic Japan. I do not want a nationalistic Japan. Stop making this a reality. China and Korea if you keep on this current path of using Japan as a scapegoat it will re-awaken a Japan we all want repressed.

testdev
testdev

Trivia question for the Chinese and Koreans who use Japan as a whipping boy to hide their own problems ...

Who said this ... The efficiency of the truly national leader consists primarily in preventing the division of the attention of a people, and always in concentrating it on a single enemy 

The answer starts with an H and ends with "itler:" .... 

Trivia question for the western world who supports the evil regime in China ... Who said this “Political power grows out of the barrel of the gun...” 

The answer sounds like my Cat when it is hungry "Mao"

Leftfield
Leftfield like.author.displayName 1 Like

@testdev It's funny how you use examples of people who should be wiped out. People all around the world framed WWII as a battle against Hitler for the right reasons. And China opened itself to the world and became a hundred times more powerful only after Mao died.

Your examples are good ones. We should wait for the destruction of Japan in the same way.

testdev
testdev like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Leftfield - Little child ...  no nation or person should be wiped out. Do you understand the ancient western art of sarcasm. Having served in the military I understand the realities of this. You obviously do not understand and speak like a moron. Being a moron is not restricted to any nation. In fact all nations have them. China has them, Japan has them, Even the US has them. As for destruction. I hate it and never wish for it. Japan has a right to exist. China has a right to exist. Neither will fight. They are too economically tied to each other and there is no benefit to it. Also the US has a bilateral treaty with Japan. Attacking Japan is attacking the US. Then dont forget that the US is part of NATO. So attacking the US is attacking NATO and all NATO allies are bound by treaty to join the defense of the US as well. So who in their right mind wants a World War over uninhabitable islands? No they only care about the oil near the islands. SO instead of the jet fly bys and political posturing why dont China and Japan either take it to the world court and/or go to the table and negotiate a peaceful resolution to the issue. As for the totally nationalistic 100 times more powerful comment. Where do you get a number like that? That is just propaganda. Your nation is growing but it has tremendous social/political concerns. It should focus on them and improve the conditions for the average person in your nation.  I like Chinese people and have respect for the growth they have achieved in such a short time. However China should not use nationalism to hide its dirty laundry i.e Bo Xilai ...

testdev
testdev

@Leftfield @epitygxanwn @testdev As I said before. Destruction is a bad word. Evil is a bad word. If we use these words now we wont be able to use them when we really need them. Dont get me wrong I am not a hippy. I just think extreme words make harder to actually talk. Which was the original point of the article. The world is like High school there will be cliques and words happen between them. However unlike high school when we fight people die. So everyone should back down and converse. Economically dont you think we should. How many more dollars can be made when we work together rather than apart. $ is key and why destruction should never happen. Any nation destroyed becomes a financial burden to the others. I dont want to imagine what is going to happen when China bursts. I worry that if the CCP (which I don't like politically) falls the US will be overwhelmed. China is growing because of America. Not only do we buy products we also invest. How many Chinese companies are on the NYSE. Same with Japanese firms. If either fails then we are screwed. So success for both is necessary. As for the oppressive CCP ... I only pray for a peaceful democratic regime change in China.  I fear it wont go that way and when the Chinese people finally seek justice and freedom the bloodshed the worlds economy will be upside down. Put politics aside for $

Leftfield
Leftfield

@epitygxanwn @testdev Yes, my words are: "wait for their destruction." The ultra-nationalistic Japan as well as Communist China have already put in place policies that will ensure their destruction. You don't need to do anything but wait. That is absolutely NOT asking for the destruction of Japan. That is waiting for their own policies to destroy themselves from within. You need reading lessons.

testdev
testdev

@epitygxanwn @testdev I was commenting on @Leftfield. I dont want destruction. Re-read my comments. See I have a vested interest in Asia. I want Asia to get along so I get cheaper products. I dont want war since I would likely have to go to it. Finally Asian women are beautiful and I dont want anything to happen to pretty girls. I want people to see each other as people.

epitygxanwn
epitygxanwn

@Leftfield @testdev You are going too far when you say "hey believe that they had the right to murder and rape." But you are right about Japanese society being racist. But don't forget: race, nationality, culture and identity are tightly bound in Japan as in just about nowhere else. So the Japanese themselves have a hard time separating them, and are often unaware of when and how they are being racist. They never went through the national debate and introspection we went through during the Civil Rights movements of the 1960s.

epitygxanwn
epitygxanwn

@testdev How is "We should wait for the destruction of Japan in the same way." certainly is "asking for the destruction of Japan. You cannot escape your own foul words now. The Internet has recorded them forever.

testdev
testdev

@Leftfield @testdev Respectfully I agree to disagree but I did enjoy the discussion. I just think Evil is a word for the extreme and the elderly keep hate alive. I dislike people on their own merits but I dont classify whole nations as enemies. I hate the governments and not the people. Most people in whatever nations are not aware of every aspect of the nation-state. Therefore they cannot be held responsible. It would be like me blaming you as a person for all the social, legal, political ills of your nation. It isnt fair to you. For the average person in Japan. I met those I hated and those I liked. I saw nationalists and pacifists. Japan is a a modern democratic state that isnt invading its neighbors. It is not current a threat to world security. It is not developing a military or forcefully occupying neighbors.

Leftfield
Leftfield

@testdev @Leftfield I really wouldn't take the word of a younger generation versus someone who's lived and worked and actually experienced Japanese society for decades. I see first hand the effect the Japanese school system have on the young with its strict conformity and crushing of dissent. It may take a decade just to de-program themselves from such a regiment.

I do use the word evil if I see it fits. I see policies that do not take into account humanity as truly evil whether it is done in China or Japan. There are even cases of forced adoptions in Japan due solely to racism. If you cannot see any redeeming value of a policy on any circumstance, it is, to me, an evil policy.

testdev
testdev

@Leftfield @testdev No I dont think the child policy is right at all. I agree Japan should sign the Hague convention. I dont think it is evil. I dont use that word freely. I do say it is very wrong.  As for the Japanese people you know ... Do you know people not related to you of the younger generation? That is the demographic that China should follow. No offense to your family but I would find more people to talk to. My grandma thinks the president is a Islamic sleeper from Africa and she is very racist (however she doesn't think so)

Leftfield
Leftfield

@testdev @Leftfield Yes, my aunt and two cousins are Japanese nationals who've lived in Japan for about four decades so far. So I do know Japanese society. I also read a little Japanese, but am far from fluent. I also have relatives in Communist China, Canada, and one of my relatives is even a Scottish national.

And as for parental custody, do you even think that's the right thing to do? To separate children from the only caregiver they've ever known to a strange man who's basically a temp worker who never comes home just because he is Japanese-born? I think racism as a judicial policy is an extreme example of evilness.

testdev
testdev

@Leftfield @testdev Do you know any actual Japanese people who YOU personally met? Not through others but you yourself? My sister's neighbors friends cousin told me Chinese people are taught to hate Japanese people in school so it must be true? Do you know a Japanese person? NO ...So you base all your opinions on what others tell you. Sorry for the family issues ... I totally get that they had to change their names. It was annoying but I did it as well. You know they say ... When if Rome do as the Romans do ... As for the divorce my friend (English Guy) had the same issue. Japan is not a signer of the Hague convention which guarenttes parent rights in divorce. It doesn't matter what race the Japanese spouse wins parental custody. You should always research the fine print

Leftfield
Leftfield

@testdev @Leftfield Well, some relatives of mine are Japanese nationals who've taken on Japanese names. They can't stick with their real names, you see, because of Japanese racism. It would have been too hard to do business if they used their real names. Plus, people who apply have to basically show their Japanese pride, therefore, a name change.

Also, due to racism, my relative had a nasty divorce, and because of racism, her husband, a Japanese born citizen, got the children despite her being the one who raised the children, and was the highest earner in the family.

But I don't think that the people are evil, just that they hold evil beliefs. Again slight difference. I do understand from their point of view, and their evil beliefs will never get them to apologize. They believe that they had the right to murder and rape.

testdev
testdev

@Leftfield @testdev No I can read. I just don't subscribe to the all Japanese people are evil idea that you have. I believe all nations have good and bad people. As for the average Japanese person how many do you know? How many? As for ultra-nationalist ... then what are you? Your just peaceful? No you insult when someone doesn't agree with your view. I get why Japan's apologies will never be accepted. Thank you :)

Leftfield
Leftfield

@testdev @Leftfield I didn't ask for the destruction of Japan. I merely pointed out your examples parallel Japan's actions in many ways. Slight difference. Japan does have ultra-nationalistic sentiments, hold evil beliefs, are completely unremorseful, etc. You may be a reading comprehension problem.

epitygxanwn
epitygxanwn like.author.displayName 1 Like

"No, the Koreans and the Chinese bear a large share of the blame." -- I am so glad he said this, since it REALLY needs to be said. And I daresay it is the Communist Chinese and Koreans who are being the most unreasonable, for their own nefarious reasons. But even South Korea is only making it more difficult for Japan to face its own past honestly and well. They actually help give the revisionalist-nationalists more momentum, and then complain when they get it.

Leftfield
Leftfield

@epitygxanwn Your assertion is an odd one. Do we normally blame a serial killer's victims for making it socially difficult for the serial killer to apologize? Ohmigod! We should stop harping on the fact the serial killer killed 10 of my relatives! Let's just make nice with him so he'll apologize. I think that's a demeaning, degrading proposition. 

I think it is up to the serial killer to apologize meaningfully, as the German military/civilian complex have done. It is NOT up to the victims to "help" them save face, or the victims to make it any easier. Apologies are supposed to be hard things to do. And sincere apologies are harder still.

Yet, all this might have a bright side. Asia really is making it difficult for Japan to apologize, and making Japan quite ultra-nationalistic. They're so nationalistic that they refuse to import foreign workers at a rate to sustain their growth, nor make their society welcoming to any foreigners, and yet they're not having babies. For all their arrogance against the world, it seems if they refuse to interact with the world, the Japanese people will be extinct by the year 3011. That might be a good thing.

testdev
testdev

@Leftfield @epitygxanwn On a similar note the one child policy in china and the over-selection of male heirs will ensure that Chinese men will be ordering wives from Japan and the US in the near future. Then with all of the intermarriage China will be a great melting pot of mixed raced children. It will be good because China will be US-lite and alot of xenophobia will go away. Just thank Deng Xiaoping when your grand kids are speaking English and bringing their western ideals taught by the American side of their families.

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testdev

@Leftfield @testdev @epitygxanwn No .. I have been arguing with CCP posters. This has been my entertainment for 3 days. I really need to be working on a charge back sheet for visualization. Anyways, Out of chaos comes order. I totally want a mixed up China. I want them to be just like US. A multi ethnic multi cultural experiment. They already laid the foundation with one-child policy. It will happen only 1/3 of the population will be married. Those who have money will order mail order US wives. Then money and skinner grand kids will come back to the US masking us better too. 

Leftfield
Leftfield

@testdev @Leftfield @epitygxanwn You do realize I'm an American too right? But anyway, I don't want the xenophobia to go away. It works effectively to isolate them. Their ideas should go away as their numbers dwindle. I don't want the possibility that they will take the worst of their nationalism to extremes with a new race.

testdev
testdev

@Leftfield @testdev @epitygxanwn No ... I already see it happening ... It is too late for both. See we Americans are charming and will find your girls. What we dont find our European friends will. Then everyone will have a cute half white or half black Chinese citizen. Dont worry most of the kids will end up entertainers. So Chinese TV will improve drastically. Sarcasm aside with interbreeding the xenophobia will disappear and the nationalist arguments will disappear. In 1000 years I am sure that everyone will be a mixed person. We will all speak something like Tagalog. A mix of Spanish, Chinese, English. We will all be like the Philippines ...

Leftfield
Leftfield

@testdev @Leftfield @epitygxanwn Oh. Interbreeding? That is a proposition I hope will not come to pass. Both Communist China and Japan should be allowed to fade away. They are doing things that will ensure their destruction, and that will be a very good thing for the future.

epitygxanwn
epitygxanwn

@Leftfield @epitygxanwn Nothing odd about it. You, OTOH, reveal in your final sentence, the ugly racism driving all your criticism of Japan. There is no excuse for applauding the extinction of a people. That is only slightly less bad than calling for genocide -- the very crime you complain about when it was the Japanese doing it,.

Leftfield
Leftfield

@epitygxanwn @Leftfield @ayuuu324 I do watch a lot of anime, and I enjoy Japanese films. I know their motivations for doing what they do, but I'm not understanding why I should condone it? The Japanese murdered millions of people over several continents and islands. But there isn't yet an apology that hasn't been watered down by committee or faced massive protests by the general public. It's obvious the Japanese truly think what they did was correct.

Considering one of the best sellers a few years ago was a fantasy book about winning WWII and forcing America to its knees, I don't think Japan has even come to terms with how truly destructive they were.

I will never condone something like this. And hoping for a poisonous idea or culture to die out is not a wrong thing. I also hope that Communism would die out as its people become more exposed to the free world. I also hope that there will be no Communist Chinese as we know them today. And I do also hope there will be no Japanese as we know them today. Either be more accepting of foreigners, or see your culture destroyed.

epitygxanwn
epitygxanwn

@Leftfield @epitygxanwn @ayuuu324 Your racist hatred of the Japanese, Leftfield, still sticks out like a sore thumb. Chill out and watch a good Japanese Anime program, like Azumanga Daioh. Maybe that will soothe your irrational anger and open you up to what is good in Japanese culture.

Leftfield
Leftfield

@epitygxanwn @ayuuu324 @Leftfield The major difference is that the current Japanese do not believe they have anything to apologize for. They allow their ultra-nationalists to dictate their agenda, and there's even mass protests when one of their Diet members tried to offer a half-hearted apology. 

If it were a case of a people truly getting over their racism, and are truly accepting of other cultures. Yes, maybe the current generation should not apologize. But if it's a case where people know their past, yet, will continue to deny it, what you say does not apply.

But as I've said, the only hope for such a culture, civilization is for them to disappear. The Japanese people are not accepting of foreigners, will not admit any guilt, but thankfully, their poisonous ideas will slowly whither away with their culture and people.

epitygxanwn
epitygxanwn

@ayuuu324 @epitygxanwn @Leftfield But for the same reason you agree "The current day Japanese people shouldn't really apologize", neither should the Emperor. For guilt is NOT transmitted by bloodline. If it were, we would still hold against the Queen of England that her ancestor tolerated and encourages war crimes during our War for Independence. But do we? No, of course not. Instead, we celebrate the alliance between the US and UK. Likewise, Canadians no longer hold it against us that so many of their ancestors were driven out of the US former colonies by death threats from 'patriots'. Instead, they are glad they are in Canada and not the US, where they can get decent health care at no cost!

ayuuu324
ayuuu324

@epitygxanwn @Leftfield The current day Japanese people shouldn't really apologize. Rather, the emperor should. It's his bloodline that carried Japan's past.