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Did an American Mine Sink South Korean Ship?
There’s yet another possibility, that a U.S. rising mine sank the Cheonan in a friendly-fire accident.
In the recent U.S.-China strategic talks in Shanghai and Beijing, the Chinese side dismissed the official scenario presented by the Americans and their South Korean allies as not credible. This conclusion was based on an independent technical assessment by the Chinese military, according to a Beijing-based military affairs consultant to the People Liberation Army.
Hardly any of the relevant facts that counter the official verdict have made headline news in either South Korea or its senior ally, the United States.
The first telltale sign of an official smokescreen involves the location of the Choenan sinking - Byeongnyeong Island (pronounced Pyongnang) in the Yellow Sea. On the westernmost fringe of South Korean territory, the island is dominated by a joint U.S.-Korean base for anti-submarine warfare (ASW) operations. The sea channel between Byeongnyeong and the North Korean coast is narrow enough for both sides to be in artillery range of each other.
Anti-sub warfare is based on sonar and acoustic detection of underwater craft. Since civilian traffic is not routed through the channel, the noiseless conditions are near-perfect for picking up the slightest agitation, for example from a torpedo and any submarine that might fire it.
North Korea admits it does not possess an underwater craft stealthy enough to slip past the advanced sonar and audio arrays around Byeongnyeong Island, explained North Korean intelligence analyst Kim Myong Chol in a news release. "The sinking took place not in North Korean waters but well inside tightly guarded South Korean waters, where a slow-moving North Korean submarine would have great difficulty operating covertly and safely, unless it was equipped with AIP (air-independent propulsion) technology."
The Cheonan sinking occurred in the aftermath of the March 11-18 Foal Eagle Exercise, which included anti-submarine maneuvers by a joint U.S.-South Korean squadron of five missile ships. A mystery surrounds the continued presence of the U.S. missile cruisers for more than eight days after the ASW exercise ended.
Only one reporter, Joohee Cho of ABC News, picked up the key fact that the Foal Eagle flotilla curiously included the USNS Salvor, a diving-support ship with a crew of 12 Navy divers. The lack of any minesweepers during the exercise leaves only one possibility: the Salvor was laying bottom mines.
Ever since an American cruiser was damaged by one of Saddam Hussein's rising mines, also known as bottom mines, in the Iraq War, the U.S. Navy has pushed a crash program to develop a new generation of mines. The U.S. Naval Mine and Anti-Submarine Warfare Command has also been focused on developing counterparts to the fearsome Chinese naval "assassin's mace," which is propelled by a rocket engine.
A rising mine, which is effective only in shallow waters, rests atop a small platform on the sea floor under a camouflage of sand and gravel. Its detection system uses acoustics and magnetic readings to pick up enemy ships and submarines. When activated, jets of compressed air or solid-fuel rockets lift the bomb, which self-guides toward the magnetic center of the target. The blast rips the keel, splitting the ship or submarine into two neat pieces, just as was done to the RKOS Cheonan.
A lateral-fired torpedo, in contrast, "holes" the target's hull, tilting the vessel in the classic war movie manner. The South Korean government displayed to the press the intact propeller shaft of a torpedo that supposedly struck the Cheonan. Since torpedoes travel between 40-50 knots per hour (which is faster than collision tests for cars), a drive shaft would crumble upon impacting the hull and its bearing and struts would be shattered or bent by the high-powered blast.
The initial South Korean review stated that the explosive was gunpowder, which would conform to North Korea's crude munitions. This claim was later overturned by the inquiry board, which found the chemical residues to be similar to German advanced explosives. Due to sanctions against Pyongyang and its few allies, it is hardly credible that North Korea could obtain NATO-grade ordnance.
Thus, the mystery centers on the USNS Salvor, which happened to be yet right near Byeongyang Island at the time of the Cheonan sinking and far from its home base, Pearl Harbor. The inquiry board in Seoul has not questioned the officers and divers of the Salvor, which oddly is not under the command of the 7th Fleet but controlled by the innocuous-sounding Military Sealift Command. Diving-support ships like the Salvor are closely connected with the Office of Naval Intelligence since their duties include secret operations such as retrieving weapons from sunken foreign ships, scouting harbor channels and laying mines, as when the Salvor trained Royal Thai Marine divers in mine-laying in the Gulf of Thailand in 2006, for example.
The Salvor's presence points to an inadvertent release of a rising mine, perhaps because its activation system was not switched off. A human error or technical glitch is very much within the realm of possibility due to the swift current and strong tides that race through the Byeongnyeong Channel. The arduous task of mooring the launch platforms to the sea floor allows the divers precious little time for double-checking the electronic systems.
If indeed it was an American rising mine that sank the Cheonan, it would constitute a friendly-fire accident. That in itself is not grounds for a criminal investigation against the presidential office and, at worst, amounts only to negligence by the military. However, any attempt to falsify evidence and engage in a media cover-up for political purposes constitutes tampering, fraud, perjury and possibly treason.
Yoichi Shimatsu, former editor of the Japan Times, is an environmental consultant and a commentator on Asian affairs for CCTV-9 Dialogue.
Posted May 27 2010
The last thing I read from this author made the same kind of negative case against Tibetans and their Buddhist religion (vs. China) as he's making against South Korea v. North Korea today. I wondered about his motives then and do even more so now, given what he says here today.
He makes many assertions above about highly technical military equipment that you and I and he (as a former journalist with no technical or military expertise) know nothing about.
The only person he quotes to support his claims is "North Korean intelligence analyst Kim Myong Chol".
This is what I found at Wikipedia about Kim Myong Choi:
"Dr. Kim Myong Chol is a Zainichi Korean writer and editor based in Japan and an unofficial spokesperson of North Korea,[1] regularly travelling to Pyongyang and around the world portraying the North Korean leadership and politics. He is a close associate of Kim Jong-il [the current dictator of North Korea].[2]
....
He has claimed variously that "North Korea has all types of nuclear bombs and warheads, atomic, hydrogen and neutron, and the means of delivery, short-range, medium-range and long-range, putting the whole of the continental US within effective range" and that "[u]nlike all the previous wars Korea fought, a next war will be better called the American War or the DPRK-US War because the main theater will be the continental US, with major cities transformed into towering infernos."[5] Additionally he has threatened Australia with similar results, stating "{i}f Australia becomes part of American manipulation against North Korea, North Korea reserve the right to strike back on Australia".[6]"
Until Mr. Shimatsu can back up his claims with more than dastardly commentators and unsupported accusations, I will not believe him.
His accusations are quite serious. Why did he choose to present them without any experts to back up his assertions? If what Mr. Shimatsu says is so obvious is so obvious -- that an America mine destroyed the South Korean submarine -- why can't he find a single acknowledged weaponry and/or explosives expert to agree with him?
Posted May 28 2010
This is a very accurate in my view story. This really does sound to me as a false flag operation. Why, Why, Why..would NK deny a sinking when they are at war>>>????
Posted May 28 2010
Maybe the author can defend himself?
When Russia examines the evidence as well?. It appears to me you do not think the Chinese have any expertise on the matter, as they don't buy it.
As for me to see the evidence of a Rusted part of the alleged torpedo is suspicious and so is the timing.
Don't attack the messenger, attack the evidence which you have not? That to me is suspicious and very defensive??
Posted May 28 2010
This would not be the first time that the inveterate liers of the Pentagon would try to shift blame for their own friendly fire incidents. Witness the countless wedding parties in Afghanistan and Iraq that were decimated by American drones. The modus operandi of the pentagon is to always say that terrorist combatants were killed in legitimate operations. This is followed by the belated inevitable retractions when they are cought in their lies by reporters who bother to go to the scene and interview witnesses.
Such lies are not restricted to Afghan or Iraqi civilians. When Pat Tillman, the young patriotic NFL player was killed by American sniper fire, the Pentagon shamelessly praised him as a hero killed by the Taliban. It was only months of vigilance by his mom and dad that finally exposed that the US military establishment was lying out of every orifice.
As a matter of fact, lying, fabricating incidents and other such deceptions are standard operating procedures of the Pentagon, its modus operandi par excellence. So why is anonymous so shocked by what coud very well turn out to be the truth when documents are declassified or a brave wistle blower comes forth.
Posted May 28 2010
To suggest that a war regime, especially one as war mongering as the US, holds any credibility is to identify oneself as a fool.
Among war regimes, such as the US and North Korea, the "news" is nothing more than a comedy of liars fooling only themselves, and amusing the common people who have learned how to think.
Enjoy the show.
DougBuchanan.com (Vietnam veteran)
Posted May 28 2010
This is what I have been saying from the beginning. There are three main reasons for this deception and the act itself. They are: 1. to create international condemnation against North Korea.2.to convince Japan that a threat exists from N Korea and convince them to agree to the Okinawa base deal in favor of the USA.3.to further their military hold on S Korea and bring more troops and get more funding.
It is not the first time a false flag situation ahs occurred, remember the invasion of Iraq and the twin tower collapse.
Never underestimate what the USA or Israel will do to get their own way at the expense of an innocent nation.
Posted May 28 2010
Another "Gulf of Tonkin incident."?
Posted May 29 2010
What's new?!
Posted May 29 2010
the story is accurate. the south korean minister of defense and the south korean director of intelligence both said this was an "accident" not involving north korea.
lee bac and usa lie.
Posted May 29 2010
This article reads more like an editorial than anything else. I mine would damage a 1200 ton corvette in the same manner a torpedo would; they are qualitatively different explosions. The torpedo detonates before it hits the ship and further more the explosive force is focused forward towards the ship. The force is design to split the ship in half as was done to the Cheonan. A mine does not work in this way and its explosion is more spherical rather than focused. Further more submarines are incredibly hard to detect. A diesel sub while noisy can quickly switch to battery power dramatically reducing it's noise profile. There is tremendous natural acoustic noise as well which the author seems to think does not exist. There are many different and varying layers of salinity which also makes it difficult for sonar to work effectively. Finally a sub is stealthy by definition why is it so hard for people to believe the N. Koreans can and would do this? Haven't they kidnapped Japanese citizens before or blown out commercial airliners in sky?
Posted May 29 2010
Well haven't the US shot down an Iranian commercial aircraft too. Let's not forget that 9/11 was also a self inflicted false flag ops. They kill with impunity and blame others. I do believe the US is responsible for this incident too.
Posted May 29 2010
The article at http://japanfocus.org/-Tanaka-Sakai/3361 argues there was an exchange of friendly fire with a US submarine (SSN 771) and both went down. However this vessel may have returned to port normally. At the Pravda discussion forum, one contributor argues it was an Israeli submarine based in Cam Ranh Bay. The torpedo has been identified as North Korean but also as German. Israel buys its submarines from Germany but if the Cheanon was cut in half in a fashion typical of a mine, then the next question is whether submarines of either country have mine-laying capabilities.
Arthur Borges in Zhengzhou
Posted May 29 2010
This is another Conspiracy Theory........... US and west want to control Middle East. US and East allies such as japan and s.korea want to control N. Korea and if possible China again US and india want to disrupt Pakistan coz pakistan is allies of China. it is inside job of US and S. Korea coxz N. Korea is allies of China. Why could N. Korea attacked ????? no reason. if they want war why would they denied it........... find the truth.
Posted May 29 2010
Here's an informative site that compiled a lot of information from reputed sources, mostly South Korean officials, that suggests it is unlikely that North Korea could have done this:
http://gowans.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/the-sinking-of-the-cheonan-another-gulf-of-tonkin-incident/
Posted May 29 2010
The ship sank due to misadventure:
http://www.seoprise.com/board/view.php?table=seoprise_12&uid=154146
SK Naval Intelligence categorically denied foul play until the the U.S. and SK politicians realized the incident could be exploited by the unpopular SK administration in the upcoming elections
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=050000&biid=2008081508548
...and the U.S. to shore up their bases in Korea and Okinawa:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/28/us-japan-to-keep-us-milit_n_593158.html
Posted May 29 2010
Actually most modern torpedoes explode underneath the hull breaking the back of the ship.
There was a video of (I think?) the Australian navy sinking one of its retired vessels as practice.
You could see the massive explosion beneath the ship, a huge displacement bubble that liften the ship practically out of the water and cracked its keel, and then it settled back into water mortally damaged and split.
Posted May 29 2010
Here is a letter to Hillary Clinton written on May 26th by S.C. Shin, a Korean civil investigator that is worth reading:
http://www.anatakara.com/petition/no-explosion-no-torpedo.html
Posted May 29 2010
US might have done it. Or should I say Pentagon might have done it. Or the Zionist's might
have done it. You can't trust these people. All they are thinking of is war and how to kill.
Posted May 29 2010
Anonymous,
The propaganda and accusations being hurled around about this incident suck big time as usual!
Posted May 29 2010
The explosive yield for a mine and a torpedo are substantially different. Simple engineering can tell the difference. North Korean leaders are simply feeling vulnerable from rising unrest within their own country and wanted to up the conflict levels to sustain their leadership and to see what else they can extort out of western countries in order for them to avoid war. After Iraq and Afghanistan, with the close brush with Iran, North Korea knows western democracies led by the US has lost their taste for war. Catch with that thinking is tactical strikes aimed at North Korean leadership will be the likely preferred counter.
Posted May 30 2010
Obviously this story has aroused a lot of attention and deservedly so. Far too often, the western media presents only one point of view, a reflection of the official story and never probe or challenge the premises underlying the government's version.
In my view, Mr. Shimatsu has raised some legitimate issues and questions that challenge the official version as presented by the governments of S. Korea and Washington. These questions are worthy of further inquiry by international bodies whose legitimacy is beyond question.
To simply dismiss Shimatsu's piece as propaganda without any attempt to counter the facts behind his piece is typical of many in the West that reflexively swallow the propaganda from the mainstream media without any attempt to think for themselves.
Posted May 30 2010
Yes, the rising mine theory seems much more likely. What would N Korea really gain by provoking S Korea and the U.S.?
Posted May 30 2010
Friendly fire? Charitable appraisal indeed. Some few others will likely point to indications of false-flag activity... Been done that way too many times afore within Full Internet View.
Posted May 30 2010
The evidencce presented is overwhelming and 'absolute.' All the visible evidence was clarified
and verified. If one still demands 100 percent proof, he is the one must be referred to sanity
clearance center, whatsoever it may and whereever such exists. Kim Jong Il or his mouthpiece
claims anything contrary to verified fact, fetching up a friendly misfire kind of story is not of
sound mentality. They claim the land is a paradise where you as a visitor would not be allowed to use your mobile phone. Unerneath this tip, the story is beyond talk in redundancy.
N. P. Lee
Posted May 30 2010
Here's very important article written by a Ph D. and specialist on the subject.
Link No. 1
http://www-nozzang.seoprise.com/board/view.php?uid=156724&table=seoprise_12
Link No. 2 ( Pictures Continued)
http://www-nozzang.seoprise.com/board/view.php?uid=156734&table=seoprise_12
Dear Editor
----------------------
----------------------
Subject: What does it take to go to war? Very Little!!
We must prevent a war at all cost..
Sir/Madam
For a brief period of attention span of most public’s view, there was a serious entertainment video of a Korean Frigate overturned within disputed Territorial Ocean far removed from our living room. Mr. President, Obama, started with a message of not rushing into conclusion and supporting salvage and rescue work at the accident site west of Seoul. It is rather shallow area for operation but deep enough for warships and submarine hunting operation. Our naval force with supposedly be USS Columbia, fast attack nuclear vessel was in S.Korea during this duration and completed an important task and returned home in Hawaii. Basic USS sub-data is L=110 m, Beam = 10 m (330’ long by 34 feet in width = diameter of a tube). There was a reported deployment of CDS-15 squadron with destroyers within the area of training exercise nearby Chun-Ahn Frigate accident. The primary activity of the CDS-15 force is forward-deployment of naval forces for ANTI-SUBMARINE WARFARE with cutting-edge technology. Surface Undersea Warfare Combat Systems equipped with newest Technology, development and testing, existing and proposed tactics, and REAL WORLD TASKING, of US 7th Fleet operations and prepare for forthcoming exercises and operations. The US Navy also quickly deployed EODMU-5 detachment (Emergency-Ordinance Disposal Unit) at the Chun-Ahn site.....
.....
(Please Check the Site to view the full document)
For more information, please contact : saseamo@live.com
Posted May 30 2010
This whole article is written from the point of view of an expert commentator. However the writer is not an 'expert' nor is he a good researcher. The claim that the drive shaft was destroyed when the torpedo collided with the ship is easily disproved by a trip to wikipedia. Torpedos explode in proximity to a ship using the magnetic signal.
Posted May 31 2010
Yoichi Shimatsu is a propaganda artist for China Central Television btw. Just so you know what you are reading and why. My fellow Chinese are being spoon fed the same story as a diversion for our wonderful ally North Korea...
Posted May 31 2010
Conspiracy nuts abound. A ship is sunk with a torpedo and anonymous internet commentators leap forward with any crazy theory that has no basis in fact, just hearsay. I put the author of this so-called article in the same category. To quote another poster: " If what Mr. Shimatsu says is so obvious is so obvious -- that an America mine destroyed the South Korean submarine -- why can't he find a single acknowledged weaponry and/or explosives expert to agree with him?"
Posted May 31 2010
I consider this evaluation of the facts very pertinent and reasonable. Normally, when North Korea succeeds in sinking a South Korean vessel it would boast about it with great pomp, because it is indeed a great feat for an outdated North Korea ship or submarine to even come close to an overwhelmingly superior and much more advanced and armed South Korean vessel, let alone sink it! The odds are that this is another US fabrication like the Mai Lai incident which triggered the Vietnam war, but this time the intent is to create an excuse to impose new sanctions on North Korea and of covering up and distracting attention from two unpleasant and embarasing siuations for the US administration: Israel's humiliation of the US president on the issue of the expansion of the illegal Jewish settlents in East Jerusalem and of the failings by President Obama in the handling of the BP oil spill. I am not counting on a report about the incident by Russian experts either because Russia in indebted to the US for abondoning its plans to deploy the missile defence shield in Eastern Europe and for allowing the holding of free and fair elections in Ukrain which restored to power a Kremlin friendly president. Probably these US "favours" will be paid back by Russia by confirming the lie of North Korea's responsibility in the incident and subsequent voting by Russia in favour of the imposition of new sanctions on both North Korea and Iran.
Posted Jun 1 2010
Seem there will always be overreaction because of american nationalism when someone pointed out possible fault by the authority. One must not be a pea brain to accuse every messenger on matter that involved international dealing, especially one that might inolve war and killing. Gungo ho chicken hawk should look at somberring photo of those who have to come home in body bag.
Posted Jun 4 2010
Ground mines are used by the US Marine since 1979 against submarines. The Mark 60 CAPTOR fires a Mark-46 Torpedo. Image what the new "bigger brother" could do firing a Mark-48 Mod. 7 (CBASS, designed for shallow waters) torpedo!
If the Cheonan had grounded west of the island, its propellers would have been damaged while trying to get off. Have a look on the badly damaged blades! Heading south, it would have been identified as an "enemy" by the mine lying in the south of the island nearby the shore (
Posted Jun 7 2010
The US-Australian "ISLMM" would even fit better than a "CAPTOR" and should be ready by now:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMUS_Mines.htm
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/policy/vision/vis00/v00-ch3c.html
But where is the 2nd warhead / mine?
Posted Jun 7 2010
The author on 27 May was spot on, but far too polite. I prefer to call it like it is: My guess would be this guy is a lacky for "communnist" government of the PRC. I wonder how many articles he's published on Chinese human rights abuses or their support of regimes like NK, the Sudan and Iran.
There are many in China who are paid, and paid well, to write false stories that deter our attention for the truth in stories into wild conspiracies where China is ever the victim and America ever the agressor. His writing lacks their idological fervor. However, I wonder if, like them, this guy believes his on BS.
Thank you Yoichi. We are dumber for having read your story.
Posted Jun 15 2010
"The lack of any minesweepers during the exercise leaves only one possibility: the Salvor was laying bottom mines." hahahaha. What the hell is this guy talkign about? This is pure anti-American propaganda. The idea that a torpedo only "holes" a ship is preposterous. This isn't WWII anymore. Most torpedoes are designed to detonate UNDERNEATH the keel of a ship, without actually making direct contact with the vessel. This creates a "bubble jet" effect, which essentially splits the ship in two. Therefore, it's highly plausible the propeller shaft of the torpedo would remain intact and this is exactly what happened here. This man is an idiot and has done NO research into the topic. Any fool could find this informaiton on the internet. Oh wait, any fool in a free country could find this information, which apparently he does not want to live in. The simplest answer is usually the correct one. Which is simpler? That a North Korean mini-sub (which are very hard to detect), launched a torpedo? Or that some mysterious team of American Navy divers on a SALVAGE ship nopt a mine laying ship planted a tethered sea mine, with the permission of the South Korean government, and then failed to notify or intentionally allowed the Cheonan to pass over it, thereby sparking an intenrational incident undoubtedly manufacteured to promote the imperialist capitalist agenda? Give me a break. If I ever run across this fool, I'll punch him right in the face.
Posted Jun 15 2010
American naval mines are deployed by aircraft or submarines, not ships like the USNS Salvor, which is designed for towing.
Posted Jun 25 2010
Exactly.
As usual, the western propaganda washed folks would just believe that their all almighty 'hero' US, is saving the world ... and humanity... MY ASS.
If US wants to talk about humanity... give the lands back to the natives, and get back to Europe! else, Americans have no rights to talk about humanity.
Posted Jun 26 2010
That is cool that people are able to get the loans and it opens up completely new possibilities.
Posted Jul 8 2010
Giving this silly conspiracy theory the benefit of the doubt, one can imagine how the United States could conceivably benefit from strained ROK/DPRK relations, especially at the expense of China (which has shown a remarkable lack of leadership throughout this crisis, proving again that speculation about 'the next superpower' is terribly premature).
Now, can somebody please explain how South Korea benefits from increasing tensions in the peninsula, frightening investors, and threatening their thriving economy with war and instability from their erratic and unpredictable neighbor? A weak, collapsed or angry regime in Pyongyang only harms South Korea-- it's quite unclear what the ROK stands to gain by siding with America's side of the story in this far-fetched fairy tale.
Posted Jul 13 2010
I was told this not the first time American has done so to sink own ship to find an excuse to start a war.
Before USA declared war with Spain to capture Philipine islands, they sank their own ships and accused Spanish who didn;t do it. But his is good enough reason for USA to start war to chase Spanish out of Philipine.
Posted Jul 13 2010
Another "Gulf of Tonkin incident."?
Posted Aug 12 2010
OH NO!!! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO WHYYYYYY!?
:(
i dun want ppl yo die for me i feel gulty when they do...
Posted Sep 19 2010
The Deep Horizon well "accident" was also a Pentagon conspiracy. General Mayhem and his associates had invested heavily in oil production stocks. They made a deal with the NK's to send one of their stealthy submarines to sabotage the blowout preventer. The resulting effect on the oil market would somehow, I dunno, make them all rich. If you check General Mayhem is no longer at the Pentagon. Hmmm.
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Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.
Posted Jan 8
Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.
Posted Jan 8
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The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
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Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.
Posted Jan 10
Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.
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The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
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If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.
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The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
Posted Jan 12
This is getting a bit more subjective, but I much prefer the Zune Marketplace. The interface is colorful, has more flair, and some cool features like 'Mixview' that let you quickly see related albums, songs, or other users related to what you're listening to. Clicking on one of those will center on that item, and another set of "neighbors" will come into view, allowing you to navigate around exploring by similar artists, songs, or users. Speaking of users, the Zune "Social" is also great fun, letting you find others with shared tastes and becoming friends with them. You then can listen to a playlist created based on an amalgamation of what all your friends are listening to, which is also enjoyable. Those concerned with privacy will be relieved to know you can prevent the public from seeing your personal listening habits if you so choose.
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Sorry for the huge review, but I'm really loving the new Zune, and hope this, as well as the excellent reviews some other people have written, will help you decide if it's the right choice for you.
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Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass' favor.
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The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
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Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.
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If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.
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I'll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)
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Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.
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Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.
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If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.
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Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.
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Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.
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Sorry for the huge review, but I'm really loving the new Zune, and hope this, as well as the excellent reviews some other people have written, will help you decide if it's the right choice for you.
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The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.
Posted Jan 20
This is getting a bit more subjective, but I much prefer the Zune Marketplace. The interface is colorful, has more flair, and some cool features like 'Mixview' that let you quickly see related albums, songs, or other users related to what you're listening to. Clicking on one of those will center on that item, and another set of "neighbors" will come into view, allowing you to navigate around exploring by similar artists, songs, or users. Speaking of users, the Zune "Social" is also great fun, letting you find others with shared tastes and becoming friends with them. You then can listen to a playlist created based on an amalgamation of what all your friends are listening to, which is also enjoyable. Those concerned with privacy will be relieved to know you can prevent the public from seeing your personal listening habits if you so choose.
Posted Jan 20
The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.
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This is getting a bit more subjective, but I much prefer the Zune Marketplace. The interface is colorful, has more flair, and some cool features like 'Mixview' that let you quickly see related albums, songs, or other users related to what you're listening to. Clicking on one of those will center on that item, and another set of "neighbors" will come into view, allowing you to navigate around exploring by similar artists, songs, or users. Speaking of users, the Zune "Social" is also great fun, letting you find others with shared tastes and becoming friends with them. You then can listen to a playlist created based on an amalgamation of what all your friends are listening to, which is also enjoyable. Those concerned with privacy will be relieved to know you can prevent the public from seeing your personal listening habits if you so choose.
Posted Jan 21
I'll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)
Posted Jan 21
Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.
Posted Jan 21
If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.
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I'll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)
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This is getting a bit more subjective, but I much prefer the Zune Marketplace. The interface is colorful, has more flair, and some cool features like 'Mixview' that let you quickly see related albums, songs, or other users related to what you're listening to. Clicking on one of those will center on that item, and another set of "neighbors" will come into view, allowing you to navigate around exploring by similar artists, songs, or users. Speaking of users, the Zune "Social" is also great fun, letting you find others with shared tastes and becoming friends with them. You then can listen to a playlist created based on an amalgamation of what all your friends are listening to, which is also enjoyable. Those concerned with privacy will be relieved to know you can prevent the public from seeing your personal listening habits if you so choose.
Posted Jan 22
Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.
Posted Jan 22
The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
Posted Jan 22
Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.
Posted Jan 22
Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass' favor.
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If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.
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Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass' favor.
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Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass' favor.
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Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.
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Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.
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This is getting a bit more subjective, but I much prefer the Zune Marketplace. The interface is colorful, has more flair, and some cool features like 'Mixview' that let you quickly see related albums, songs, or other users related to what you're listening to. Clicking on one of those will center on that item, and another set of "neighbors" will come into view, allowing you to navigate around exploring by similar artists, songs, or users. Speaking of users, the Zune "Social" is also great fun, letting you find others with shared tastes and becoming friends with them. You then can listen to a playlist created based on an amalgamation of what all your friends are listening to, which is also enjoyable. Those concerned with privacy will be relieved to know you can prevent the public from seeing your personal listening habits if you so choose.
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I'll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)
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Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.
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The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
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I'll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)
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The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
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This is getting a bit more subjective, but I much prefer the Zune Marketplace. The interface is colorful, has more flair, and some cool features like 'Mixview' that let you quickly see related albums, songs, or other users related to what you're listening to. Clicking on one of those will center on that item, and another set of "neighbors" will come into view, allowing you to navigate around exploring by similar artists, songs, or users. Speaking of users, the Zune "Social" is also great fun, letting you find others with shared tastes and becoming friends with them. You then can listen to a playlist created based on an amalgamation of what all your friends are listening to, which is also enjoyable. Those concerned with privacy will be relieved to know you can prevent the public from seeing your personal listening habits if you so choose.
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Between me and my husband we've owned more MP3 players over the years than I can count, including Sansas, iRivers, iPods (classic & touch), the Ibiza Rhapsody, etc. But, the last few years I've settled down to one line of players. Why? Because I was happy to discover how well-designed and fun to use the underappreciated (and widely mocked) Zunes are.
Posted Jan 26
Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.
Posted Jan 26
Sorry for the huge review, but I'm really loving the new Zune, and hope this, as well as the excellent reviews some other people have written, will help you decide if it's the right choice for you.
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The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
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This is getting a bit more subjective, but I much prefer the Zune Marketplace. The interface is colorful, has more flair, and some cool features like 'Mixview' that let you quickly see related albums, songs, or other users related to what you're listening to. Clicking on one of those will center on that item, and another set of "neighbors" will come into view, allowing you to navigate around exploring by similar artists, songs, or users. Speaking of users, the Zune "Social" is also great fun, letting you find others with shared tastes and becoming friends with them. You then can listen to a playlist created based on an amalgamation of what all your friends are listening to, which is also enjoyable. Those concerned with privacy will be relieved to know you can prevent the public from seeing your personal listening habits if you so choose.
Posted Jan 29
Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.
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The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
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Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.
Posted Feb 12
If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.
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Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass' favor.
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The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
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The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
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The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
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This is getting a bit more subjective, but I much prefer the Zune Marketplace. The interface is colorful, has more flair, and some cool features like 'Mixview' that let you quickly see related albums, songs, or other users related to what you're listening to. Clicking on one of those will center on that item, and another set of "neighbors" will come into view, allowing you to navigate around exploring by similar artists, songs, or users. Speaking of users, the Zune "Social" is also great fun, letting you find others with shared tastes and becoming friends with them. You then can listen to a playlist created based on an amalgamation of what all your friends are listening to, which is also enjoyable. Those concerned with privacy will be relieved to know you can prevent the public from seeing your personal listening habits if you so choose.
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Posted Mar 1
Hi! There are certainly a lot of details like that to take into consideration. That is a great point to bring up. I offer the thoughts above as general inspiration but clearly there are questions like the one you bring up where the most important thing will be working in honest good faith. I don?t know if best practices have emerged around things like that, but I am sure that your job is clearly identified as a fair game. Both boys and girls feel the impact of just a moment’s pleasure, for the rest of their lives.
Posted Mar 1
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Posted Mar 2
Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass' favor.
Posted Mar 2
Between me and my husband we've owned more MP3 players over the years than I can count, including Sansas, iRivers, iPods (classic & touch), the Ibiza Rhapsody, etc. But, the last few years I've settled down to one line of players. Why? Because I was happy to discover how well-designed and fun to use the underappreciated (and widely mocked) Zunes are.
Posted Mar 2
Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass' favor.
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Sorry for the huge review, but I'm really loving the new Zune, and hope this, as well as the excellent reviews some other people have written, will help you decide if it's the right choice for you.
Posted Mar 2
Between me and my husband we've owned more MP3 players over the years than I can count, including Sansas, iRivers, iPods (classic & touch), the Ibiza Rhapsody, etc. But, the last few years I've settled down to one line of players. Why? Because I was happy to discover how well-designed and fun to use the underappreciated (and widely mocked) Zunes are.
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Posted Mar 3
The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.
Posted Mar 4
The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.
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Posted Mar 7
I'll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)
Posted Mar 7
The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.
Posted Mar 7
If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.
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If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.
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Posted Mar 16
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Posted Mar 17
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Posted Mar 17
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Posted Mar 17
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