I understand. But in some countries, which are predominanntly Muslim, freedom is a Fremd word. In Tunesia at least you have a secular government. Thank god for small favours.
But yes, it should open up more to free demonstrations. Firing one minister is just an eye wash; we all know that.

There will be a peaceful protest this Saturday the 15th of January at 11 am in front of the Tunisian Embassy on London.
Please come to show you support to innocent Tunsians dying as we speak.
Any media cover will be apprecitaed.

Everything is relayed to the glory of President Ben Ali, who's always shown at his best. We all know he dyes his hair black. Nobody likes his wife, who has a wooden smile: she never seemed sincere.

Well are you sure you don't have Tony Blair as the leader, that sounds a lot like him and his wife Cherie with her wooden smile

What with the drinking and nightclubs and guys talking about football it sounds a lot like the UK, so I really don't think the two places are that different, terrible forces are at work here too

Sam,

you have my sympathies. However the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. You mention the corruption of the Tunisian rulers and talk of moving to France. are you not aware that their president attempted to secure political office and favour for his son. It is a fact of life powerful people take advantage: power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I do not know if Tunisian television is the worst in the world. British television used to be said to be the best in the world but has for some time been descending into some sort of pit peopled only by celebrity clones, so do not expect your TV to improve the trend seems to be downwards.

If you are going to rebel what do you intend to replace your rulers with? Iran is an example of an Islamic theocracy that replaced a monarchy, the youth of that country are not reported to like what they have become. In certain European countries, such as Rumania, dictators have been ousted and replaced to a great extent by organised crime.

Be very careful what you wish for because in toppling the devil you know you leave a vacuum for a devil that you are not even aware exists. Look at Russia, the Tsar was a bastard but Stalin outdid him by far.

shalone

But in some countries, which are predominanntly Muslim, freedom is a Fremd word.

Shalone, get over it man. The writer is talking about fighting for their political freedom. Stop this anti-Muslim rant and show some respect just for a change!

This is an apparently pretty comprehensive account of some of the recent uprisings/protests and police/govt reactions: http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/918463--tunisia-the-uprising-has-a-hashtag

I only saw the above article because ioerror ( Jacob Appelbaum of Wikileaks ) tweeted it a week or so ago. I was totally shocked, because little or nothing about it had appeared elsewhere in the media.
.

Good luck Sam.

I understand. But in some countries, which are predominanntly Muslim, freedom is a Fremd word. In Tunesia at least you have a secular government. Thank god for small favours.

shalone

Post the end of the Ottoman empire, and post the end of European colonisation many of the countries from Egypt to Morocco has only ever been given a choice between a Western backed directorship or a Islamic dictatorship. Perhaps there maybe a chance here in Tunisia to find another way?

Anyway, it takes time.

I don't know how much one is allowed to quote from other published articles in these comments, but here are some highlights of the above article:

"MONA ELTAHAWY SPECIAL TO THE STAR

... While you were enjoying the various holidays on offer, Tunisian President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali went on live television to address a nation gripped by the worst unrest in a decade.

... He was agitated. ... Two young men driven to desperation by unemployment had attempted suicide (one successfully) and had lit a fuse of popular anger that was spilling across one of the most tightly controlled police states in the Middle East.

And then, in the middle of his live address, as he feigned concern for the young and the poor, the telephone on his desk started ringing. ...

If ever a moment symbolized the utter disregard Ben Ali and his cohort of aging dictators across the Middle East have for their citizens — the majority of whom are younger than 30 and have known no other leaders but those old men — nothing could top that ringing phone.

As he railed against “mercenaries” and “foreign news channels” (read: Al Jazeera), which he claimed were behind the unrest with the aim of making Tunisia look bad, the real inspiration for the uprising lay in hospital slowly, painfully dying. On Dec. 17, Mohamed Bouazizi, 26, doused himself in gasoline and lit a match after police confiscated fruits and vegetables he’d been selling without a permit to make a living in lieu of a job he could not find despite a university degree.

By the time Ben Ali gave his speech, at least two other young men had died during protests: an 18-year-old was killed by police when they opened fire on protestors outside a police station; the other — an unemployed youth — electrocuted himself on an electricity pylon. Days later, another protester would die from police bullets and two more unemployed young men would attempt suicide.

Demonstrators set police cars ablaze and threw firebombs at official buildings and there sat the president chiding them for scaring tourists. And there rang the phone, reminding us all that Ben Ali was bogus.

Ben Ali’s attempted crackdown was predictably harsh: live ammunition, curfews, mass arrests and a near-complete media blackout. Human rights activists say police have started a campaign of night raids against demonstrators and union leaders.

All this was happening sometime between the office parties, turkeys and fireworks of the holidays — but don’t bother going through your pile of old newspapers. You’ll find very little if anything on Tunisia. ...

I wager the majority of North Americans could not find Tunisia on a map and that for most Europeans it brings nothing more to mind than sunny beach vacations. Police state? Who knew!

A stream of tweets, all including #Sidibouzid (Bouazizi’s hometown), flows through my Twitter feed every day in Arabic, English and French, carrying links to Tunisian blogs, video filmed by protestors (which provided much of Al Jazeera’s coverage) ... .

... So vicious has the Tunisian government’s online war against its opponents been that the Internet activist group “Anonymous” has targeted several government websites in protest at what it says is “an outrageous level of censorship.”
.

IbrahimM: I do not have to hide my feelings, even if they hurt some. All over the Muslim world you have dictatorships of worst kind. On top of that their constitutions are based on sharia. Tunesia is not one of them. I am freedom but a secualar freedom. In Tunesia women have equal rights, even some Jews are living there and accepted. What it needs is economic upturn, more jobs and less hunger. China has no democracy but has done very well. Compare India with China and you see the difference. If democracy does not deliver, freedom for the few is of no use. Once sharia creeps in, you can never reverse the trend. Just look at Pakistan, where minoriies are being prosecuted for blasphemy. And that is acountry with functining democracy, freedom of press and a strong opposition. People are still poor.

Well it's not a (rather good) article about life under a gruesome dictatorial regime if some bright spark doesn't show up to bleat that it's as bad here, maaaaan. I think people who come up with this crap should volunteer for an exchange programme and see what it's like.

Bravo Sam. I do hope the people of Tunisia rise up against Ben Ali and don't replace him with the MB or other wannabe dictators. The courage shown by the Tunisian demonstrators is awesome and humbling and those sneering are pathetic.

Lokischild: Yes, there is corruption everywhere, but can you imagine being terrified to open your mouth for fear of being arrested and disappeared? I can walk into the street right now with a banner calling for revolution and yelling ''The Queen's a dole-scrounging old bitch and the government are a bunch of upper class cnuts,'' the worst that will happen is I get funny looks, bit different from a wholly repressive police state where I'd be arrested for whispering anything like that to the wrong person. Saying ''Oh freedom isn't all that great'' (and yes, I know our democracy has more holes than a sieve) to people without any - or ''the telly won't be good, y'know'' - seems pretty patronising.

Good luck Sam, yes Tunisia feted by the west, particularly the US is now exposed for all to see-rotten and corrupt, led by a secret policeman trained by the CIA. His mythology has gone, he stands naked dripping blood and hair dye, a symbol of western interference in the Mahgrib. This country has one of the worst police states imaginable and the point now is to complete the revolution, no half measures please. Watch the French they are in the process of sending repressive equipment to control this popular uprising. Luckily the Tunisian army hate the police and this is where the first cracks will appear. Hail the bravery of those in the street and hail those who unarmed confront Ben Ali's 13 police forces. One question remains will he leave by helicopter from Carthage or will he get the bullet he deserves. Either way only then will ifriquaya breathe again and take its stand in the community of nations and not continue as a statistic in the list of the most oppressed

Tunisia's youth demonstrate and rebel and are revolutionary heros, British students demonstrate and are anarchic yobs.

Strange world.

Clunie @ 11:09 AM.

It is not a matter of what you can do here in Blighty, it is a question of what Sam and his friends can do now in Tunisia, which seems a whole lot more than he could in say Iran or North Korea and what they may be able to do in Tunisia after the rather unplanned rebellion that he longs for.

As for the telly quote it might be viewed as patronising, it was not uttered in that way but rather in the context of it was a rather petty reason to include as a cause for rebellion. And the corruption comment stands whatever system he ends up with.

You cannot judge the consequences of rebellion in Tunisia by always comparing it with the freedoms of the UK. The situation now existing in Tunisia may very well be viewed as near perfect by the denizens of other, more controlled countries. Rebellion in Tunisia may actually make it worse as some claim it did in Iran. Indeed regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan do not normally have a good press within this forum.

I therefor struggle to see what point you are making and am concerned that you are making the freedom of Sam and his contemporaries subordinate to your political ideals. If Sam wants to revolt in Tunisia he can only succeed if he is even more ruthless than the current regime because if he is not then the rebellion itself will be hijacked. I suggest he puts faith in a longer term political struggle.

Tunisia with a new revolution: the Jasmin Revolution – the true one.

I would like to know more about the Jasmin Revolution. Will it be the answer to Tunisia's problems? The link in the article does not work.

Quick piece of advice to the author, if you can find any of those that made it through the post revolution events in Iran, ask them what happens to those on th left who got into bed with Islamism in a revolution, once the government is overthrow.

bananachips: There is no ayatollah waiting to fly into Tunis.

bananachips

I don't think he is calling for a Islamic revolution.

Just those boring things, good governance, freedom of expression etc.

Why are people comparing Tunisia to Iran???
There is no eventual Islamic power in Tunisia.
Sorry for those who can't accept it but Tunisia is ready for democracy without any external help.
This is the reality!!!

@BrianWhit

There is no ayatollah waiting to fly into Tunis.

LOL

Wanna bet?

I say Tunisia, like the rest of the Arab world, will move in the direction of theocracy. I don't see why or how they will buck the trend.

What's your forecast?

Lokischild:

You cannot judge the consequences of rebellion in Tunisia by always comparing it with the freedoms of the UK. The situation now existing in Tunisia may very well be viewed as near perfect by the denizens of other, more controlled countries. Rebellion in Tunisia may actually make it worse as some claim it did in Iran. Indeed regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan do not normally have a good press within this forum.

I tend to think that if I wouldn't want to live under a brutal autocratic regime, why would others? I think that freedom from tyranny's a fairly basic human desire, and when people are fighting for it I'll support them all the way - I absolutely oppose invasion and war, but I absolutely support those fighting for their freedom against vicious repressive regimes (and equally oppose our governments' hypocrisy in supporting/arming those regimes when expedient). As for the situation being viewed as near perfect by denizens of more rigidly controlled countries, the Burmese would probably envy the greater freedoms of the Iranians, while North Koreans may see Burma as being not that bad, that doesn't mean that I'm going to back the Iranian and Burmese regimes ''for fear of something worse.''

As for rebellion possibly making things worse, that's a possibility in any change and has been used by conservatives to argue for retaining all sorts of historic injustices, including apartheid.

bananchips: And you know that the revolution is an Islamist one how exactly? I haven't seen anything about that.

@MaxRosen

It's clear that you don't know Tunisia, Tunisia is not really an Arab country we are an Arabic speaking country!!
Tunisia will beck the trend cause It is the only country that has believed in education from the first day of it's independence.
This is a values based revolution not a religious one!!

Laikainspace 13 January 2011 11:39AM bananachips I don't think he is calling for a Islamic revolution. Just those boring things, good governance, freedom of expression etc

These things generally come, if at all, incrementally. They never come after revolutionary turmoil.
Good luck to those seeking an end to corruption, free elections, freedom of expression, open-access to different political and cultural voices, freedom to demonstrate peacefully, transparency of government and a respect for the human rights of all citizens.
Don't let your agenda be hijacked by extremists or you will live to rue it.

I say Tunisia, like the rest of the Arab world, will move in the direction of theocracy.

MaxRosen: On what evidence are you basing that claim? It's rubbish. The protests are basically secular.

Damntheral

Well it's not a (rather good) article about life under a gruesome dictatorial regime if some bright spark doesn't show up to bleat that it's as bad here, maaaaan.

Thanks for summing up something that's been bugging me for a long time.

Endemic corruption in Pakistan = 'Sounds like the UK'

Legislated criminal punishment for homosexuals in Iran = 'Plenty of homophobes in the UK to'

I think people who come up with this crap should volunteer for an exchange programme and see what it's like.

Ditto.

Max Rosen: Seeing as Tunisia's Sunni, not Shia, I think it's a fairly safe bet there's no ayatollah going to fly in. This revolution doesn't seem to be characterised by religious fervour or rhetoric, and the Tunisians I know are cynical about the Islamists anyway.

Clunie:

bananchips: And you know that the revolution is an Islamist one how exactly? I haven't seen anything about that.

I don't think bananachips is saying that, rather he's advising the rebels to keep islamists such as Ghannoushi a long, long way from the action. Abolhassan Banisadr could be a source of invaluable advice here.

artsman11

These things generally come, if at all, incrementally. They never come after revolutionary turmoil.

Yes, unfortunately you're right, so perhaps an equitable and universal tax system, bureaucracy (in the old less negative sense we now place on it), public funding of schools, health and infrastructure, and a transparent legal system can come first.

Freedom of expression and the vote may have to lag abit.

I'm being naive I know.

As Clunie has pointed out they're Sunni not Shia, they don't do Ayatollahs.

Carpetbaggers are another thing

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/04/tunisia-riots-economic-miracle-ben-ali

Clunie @ 11:53 AM.

It seems that we must agree to differ. My main concern is that Sam does not seem to be having too bad a time of it, if anything many of his concerns are directed at and about the dictator's wife. If he chooses to rebel he has to face the fact that it could get a lot worse than it is now.

Like the Gods let us watch this siege of Troy. I do so in the knowledge that I warned of problems and counselled against hot headed and unconsidered actions.

"bananachips: There is no ayatollah waiting to fly into Tunis."

@BrianWhit - does this mean Rashid Ghannoushi has given up? I imagine most Tunisians are too young to remember him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_Al-Ghannushi

@Sam - good luck with your move to democracy, but beware the Romanian model where the party just decapitates the figure-heads and carries on behind the scenes.

BrianWhit @
13 January 2011 11:56AM

On what evidence are you basing that claim? It's rubbish. The protests are basically secular.

I hope BrianWhit is right, I hope it stays that way.

If one goes by history, recent history (my knowledge is rather limited), there are ample examples of betrayed revolutions: be it the Soviet of 1917 or Cuba of 1950s or Pakistan of 1940s, Iran 1970s. One can add Afghan conflict of 1980s as well (some fought the Russian occupation, other fought to impose sharia based Islamic govt).

And I am not comforted that BrianWhit felt the need to use the word "basically" in this context.

Fingers crossed?

Good luck and be careful. And never forget the who
especially the last line: meet the new boss, just like the old boss.

Lokischild: I think you'll find he's using the dictator's wife as a symbol, not his whole complaint - if Mrs. Ben Ali's excesses were the worst thing Tunisians have to put up with, I suspect people wouldn't be taking to the streets in revolt and at massive personal risk. And of course things could be worse - they could be worse in Britain and we're not having too bad a time of it by the standards of many nations, but I hope that won't stop people campaigning and protesting against the government and the things that are wrong.

The police are afraid: if you tell them you're close to Ben Ali all doors open, hotels offer their best rooms, parking becomes free, traffic laws disappear.

Have to wonder how many times the police have heard that one then. "Iv'e come to pay this parking ticket, I'm in a bit of a rush, I have to see my good friend Ben Ali"

The bravery of those on the streets is incredible and inspring, but please ensure that women are also a big component of the street protests and encourage them to participate, breaking down any taboos, etc , the TV images I have seen show remarkably few,

The color revolution has a name

So, the regime change that the Yank embassy announced in its classified cable in 2009 is now officially christened Jasmine. Another guaranteed flop, like the Georgian Rose and the Kyrgyz Tulip.

Who is going to be the new corrupt pro-Yank despot who will replace the old corrupt pro-Yank despot? It probably won't be Rashid Ghannoushi, CIF's Soumaya Ghannoushi's dad, who is pulling the strings from London. His jihadi terrorist past is still too fresh for him to be an acceptable color stooge. My guess is that it will be a putschist general. Yesterday's premature tweet announcing a coup gave the game away.

They were in Iran too, until the BBC promoted Ayatolla Khomeni

That's just the best conspi-theory ever. Of all the unlikely secret rulers of the world, the BBC is certainly an interesting choice...

Seejaybee
Correct the current talk of revolution is not Islamist, but those on the left , women’s groups etc could inform the author of what happened to people like them once they got into bed with Islamist for the revolution in Iran. Post this revolution, as number of them were invited to take a very short smoke next to a wall, amongst other ideas.

Whilst manning the barricades it’s always useful to keep your eyes on those behind you pushing the ‘cause’ and keeping asking yourself what cause are they actual pushing.

Brian is receiving backup from the Muslim Brotherhood for his "secular" color revolution:

Tunisia and Steps to Overthrow the Dictator Ben Ali

According to Rashid Ghannouchi, Islamic intellectual, and leader of Tunisia’s Al-Nahda Islamic Movement, Rashid Ghannouchi accused President Zine El Abidine Ali’s ruling regime as being widely responsible for the aggravation and escalating events taking place in the country

Ghannouchi stressed in a statement to the Muslim Brotherhood’s website, Ikhwanweb that the regime must bear responsibility for the bloodshed after it continued to strip the country’s citizens of their livelihood

An article in the Guardian commented on the large protests taking place in Tunisia, says writer Brian Whitaker in his article in this regard:
That a small incident where a man committed suicide because of unemployment has become the catalyst for a wave of mass protests taking place in Tunisia, could possibly threaten the end of the presidency of Zine El Abidine Ben Ali.

The children of the world are making the change and for good reasons.

Its is our future.

we will claim our rightful place in the sun.

NO ONE IS FREE UNTIL ALL ARE FREE.

LAWFUL REBELLION, JUST SAY NO.

The Islamophobia of some people here is astonishing and is, in combination with the struggle for liberty described in the article, totally misplaced. Some people here are totally arrogant and have no respect for others.

The Islamophobia of some people here is ...

entirely understandable. In fact, it's scarcely a "phobia" at all. The women of Tunisia have, under the current regime, liberties that would be swept away the instant an islamist regime got into power.

It's no use to the people of Tunisia to be rid of the current corrupt dynasty, only to have it replaced by the slavery of islam.

Thnk you Sam for your article, it reminded me of how i lived in Tunisia before I decided to cowardly pack my bags and go abroad for postgraduate studies and to live somewhere where I can speak mind. Unfortunately those who left are many and are often those who could contribute to build a better and secular Tunisia. but let's say that they are the fortunate as many in Tunisia cant travel at all. Visa restrictions by the west and the lack of economic means or academic diploma. I feel guilty most days for being the one who left instead of fighting for freedom, the rule of law and democracy and I hope that one day I can return to my land. At this moment i feel that that day is may be close. I want to say to those of you who compare Tunisia with the rest of the Arab and Muslim world do not put apples and pears together they are not the same. you are being unhelpful. This is a Tunisian whole country protest not for an islamic marxist socialist or western state. this is a protest against a corrupt government. As for Mr Ganouchi he is not supported in Tunisia and will never be welcomed to power. in fact the marxist Hamami has more support base. in fact these rumours of the islamist taking over is what kept dictators in power for so long. we have to face our fears. The protest movement is mainly led by the unions and include academics, artists and intellects of whom most of you know nothing. Tunisia is not Iran nor Pakistan or egypt algeria or any other country go and read history if you want to know about it. I emphasise there is no islamic state as an alternative, the tunisian people want a free state and a life without tyranny and respect for the individual human being.

The women of Tunisia have, under the current regime, liberties that would be swept away the instant an islamist regime got into power.

Correction: Women's rights are granted by the Code of Personal Status (1956); according to the pyramid of laws, this Code come in the second place after our constitution which cannot be changed by any type of 'regime' (executive power is separated from legislative power).

And why do you assume that Tunisians are protesting for Islam? Are you following the news? Do you have any ideas about the current demands of the people?

Prejudice is much more disturbing than ignorance.

So far, around 90 protesters have been killed by the government, according to Tunisian friends who heard from family there earlier today, with religion playing precisely zero role in the protests. But yeah, best that the others shut up and stay docile, as we'd do in the West if our government were to behave like Ben Ali's, while we - left and right - tell those Johnny Foreigners not to rock the boat and just accept what's good for them. They need a firm hand, y'know.

I must remember next time there's a protest about student fees or environmentalists being monitored (oddly, not many except on the right leapt in to defend those) to say, ''They don't know how lucky they are, things could be worse" or ''Why can't these people just accept the status quo?'' Or is it different for us, as always?

Ignoring the islamophobes, the situation in tunis is degenerating fast. I think the army will have to intervene and stop the police before a worse bloodbath takes place. I wonder what the us ambassador's secret cables look like now. Echoing another time, "carthage must be destroyed" for those who dont know thats the palace where ben ali hides out, or at least did until now. This revolution isnt being televised, not yet anyhow!

thebley said; "This revolution isnt being televised, not yet anyhow"

Not in the UK, maybe, but Al Jeezera is running film of the riots (and also those in Algeria) virtually non-stop. And the disturbances in both countries are lead items on both state controlled and private radio and TV stations here in Morocco (they can't censor it, too many people know about the disturbances from friends).

And, judging by the number of worried phone calls from our French suppliers, the disturbances are being well covered in the French media. It only seems to be the anglophone media which is so late to cover them, and are covering them in such little detail.

For the past couple of hours, I've been following the twitter hashtag that Brian suggested in his piece a couple of days ago.

http://twitter.com/search?q=%23sidibouzid

There are now so many tweets coming through that Twitter seems to be having difficulty coping. Many, sometimes confusing, reports coming in, certainly many, many people out on the streets, (thousands on video in Kairouan for example), certainly more fatal shootings by the police.

Reports of military martial law in some places, of shops & banks in Tunis being ordered to close at 2pm today, of young people trying to protect propery against rampaging pro Ben Ali militia. Anonymous regularly posting new proxies, calls for mass protest in Paris on Saturday...

Ben Ali is due to appear on state tv sometime this evening, (nobody knows exactly when). I'm starting to wonder whether he'll last that long.

This is a remarkable video from yesterday, (I don't know where - sorry). Watch for the appearance, and rapid disappearance, of the police van at around 3'.30''
as they see the people & army advancing towards them. The interaction between the army, protesters and their stewards is fascinating. This is what a revolution actually looks like.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1808112849697&comments