Strikeforce's "JZ" Cavalcante unsure about future, concerned about MMA judging

SAN JOSE, Calif. – Lightweight Gesias "JZ" Cavalcante was sure he'd done enough to earn a decision victory over Josh Thomson at this past Saturday's "Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Noons 2" event.

Instead, Thomson earned a unanimous-decision victory, and though two judges scored it 29-28, one judge surprisingly gave him all three rounds.

"When they said 30-27, I said, 'Come on, that's complete bull [expletive],'" Cavalcante told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) afterward.

"Everybody keeps telling me I won," he added. "I feel like I won the first and the third round. But I have to watch the tape."

In the evening's co-main event, Cavalcante (15-4-1 MMA, 0-1 SF) and Thomson (18-3 MMA, 9-2 SF) waged a back-and-forth scrap that mostly took place on the mat. Both fought off submission attempts early on – Cavalcante used a tight guillotine and Thomson an arm-triangle choke – and traded dominant position during the 15-minute affair. Cavalcante, though, earned the lead on MMAjunkie.com's scorecard with an overall score of 29-28.

Fight statistic service CompuStrike gave Thomson the lead over Cavalcante in overall strikes landed (76 percent to 62 percent), ground strikes landed (83 percent to 69 percent), and dominant positions (two to one), though Cavalcante led in takedown attempts (two out of three vs. two out of five), knockdowns (one to zero) and leg strikes landed (92 percent to 84 percent).

Afterward, Thomson praised Cavalcante and said he disagreed with the judge who gave him all three rounds.

"I felt this might go the distance, but no way I won that fight 30-27," he said.

Although Cavalcante doesn't fault Thomson, he thinks the former champion's status as hometown hero may have played a part in the judges' call.

"That's always an influence," he said. "He comes back (to Strikeforce) and [almost] nobody knows me. I should have finished the fight. I had the opportunity to do it, and I missed it."

Still, the American Top Team product and DREAM veteran is frustrated by what he sees as a growing problem in MMA.

"Lately, they've been doing a lot of bad, bad [decisions]," he said. "If it keeps going like that, it's going to be really bad for the sport. Like with Jessica Aguilar, who just fought in Bellator, [the judges] dropped her fight with a bad decision. (Ed. note: Zoila Frausto defeated Aguilar by split decision at Bellator 31.)

"I have a couple of friends that get angry. They don't like to see those kinds of things. People like to watch because it's fun and entertaining, but not [with] bad judgement. That's something they've got to try to fix ... because it's a great sport, and everybody comes and fights hard."

Cavalcante is unsure of his next career move, though from the sound of it, he won't be fighting in Japan any time soon. Prior to his meeting with Thomson, he defeated Katsunori Kikuno in July's DREAM.16 event and said he has yet to be paid for his efforts.

"[Expletive] DREAM, man," he said. "I'm not going to say I'm done, but I need to get paid. I need people to show the respect [I] need.

"But Strikeforce, I've got to see what they're going to do after this. I feel good. I'm healthy. A little break, and maybe (I'll fight) at the end of the year or the beginning of next year. I've got to take time to check it out."

For complete coverage of "Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Noons 2," check out the MMA Events section of MMAjunkie.com.

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bruno_sardine on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:16 pm ET
Ahhh, the good ol' "I forgot to sign the check" or "the check's in the mail" trick...
 

IB4U on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:32 pm ET
And Coker wants Melendez vs Aoki  in Dream at NYE?
Man, alot of fighters piss at the Japanese promotion lately!
Wonder if Diaz or Miller get paid?
 

rtwil on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:58 pm ET
Coker wants Dream to stay alive because he can't afford to sign the talent if Dream crashes.  Then Strikeforce will be left to put on shows with only the guys they managed to sign and have under contract.
 

themmaddict on Oct 11, 2010 at 5:07 pm ET
Cocker said in a fight video that everyone he has sent has been paid.
 

IB4U on Oct 11, 2010 at 5:47 pm ET
by SF?

jacked up for JZ than.
 

ACE13 on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:33 pm ET
3 words........FINISH THE FIGHT!!   End of story on judging
 

LelandMMA on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:37 pm ET
Sometimes that is not possible. Judges need some serious training. It's going to ruin our sport.
 

QuickReference on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:44 pm ET
Do you know how difficult it is to become a judge? - Surprisingly, most that try to become a judge or just the license, fail! Ask "Doc" Hamilton, he teaches these new guys.
 

Fadwar on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:56 pm ET
no wonder the judges suck... if doc hamilton is training them. have you ever listened to this guy talk?  he thinks he knows the sport but his judging method is messed up.  his logic is very confusing in my opinion.
 

truthvsevil on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:56 pm ET
Miragliotta gave Rutten the decision in his fight against Randleman.

Three judges gave Machida a decision over Shogun.

The judges gave Forrest Griffin the win (twice, once against Rampage, then against Tito).

The judges gave Bisping the decision against Hamill, and possibly took it from him with Rashad (memory shady).

There's always gonna be some chocolate-hating, who is are the Lead Zeplin, weirdo of a person that's gonna simply shove some vomit stew down everybody's sence of integrity and justice.

There should be a judging jury. Three judges ringside, three judges in a green room watching the monitors. Compare results. If the UFC is able to make STATES change their laws to legalize and then sanction MMA, it should be able to at least show it is developping new strategies to ensure better judging is offered to the fighters and the fans.

However, part of the process of legalizing is playing along the rules. If the UFC legalizes and then goes about complaining about how legalized stuff goes down, it makes itself less of a play-along-the-rules entity in the eyes of jurisdictions it is still trying to sway.

This brings about questions for me :

- Who decides how events are judged?
-Who decides what the judging criteria are?
-Who holds judges accountable?
-Are the judges accountable?
-Should they offer a written report justifying their judgment, no matter how short?
-Does the Athletic Commission ever hold itself accountable for anything?
-Can there be sanctions against an athletic commission?
-Are there legal recourses?
-Why can't judges receive training on what, according to each promotion, constitutes a winning effort?
(similar to what the NHL pretends to do, ie eliminate hooking and interference - last time I checked, punching somebody in the shoulder or pushing somebody was not 'body-checking', you will never see this in 50's and 60's footage. When European shirt-pulling soccer players started coming in, they did it with a stick to boot)

-Shouldn't judges personally read aloud, to the audience, their justification, followed by the verdict?

Just some thoughts when I get peeved about judging.
 

Celmare on Oct 11, 2010 at 8:32 pm ET
Forrest won against Rampage. No question. He executed a perfect game plan, especially in the 2nd round as a 10-8, though I'm not sure he could do it again.
I agre with the rest of the decisions, though making it about race is likely misplaced. It's gotta be about money/corruption. It always is, and remenber these are judges that have boxing history.

I think there should be more/different judges at each event, and penalizations for those that are total screw ups (Cecil Peoples should never have a job outside professional wrestling now).

Or

Just change the rules. 3 full rounds and then the match is a draw. Maybe a sudden death round to try to avoid the draw. Regardless, it would solve the issue with judging AND force most fighters to go for the finish. SOme mihgt go for the draw, but that would be the refs job to not letr the action be stalled. More proavtice refs, and no judges. 
Hey, it'd be a little rough around the edges, but far less problematic then what is currently used. 
 

knockout13 on Oct 11, 2010 at 6:10 pm ET
yea true bout finishing the fight.... but the judges are awfull they have no clue on mma no way 30-27 that bull 
 

grim_reaper on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:55 pm ET
Interesting but he is the second fighter I have heard that fought at Dream that won and did not get paid in a timely manner. Cole Escovedo claimed prior to his bout at Tachi Palace 5 that he had not yet been paid by the promotion for his win at Dream 13. Must have worked it out though as he fought again at Dream 16. Or he is gullible.
 

Tubekid on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:17 pm ET
Bibiano Fernandes has been saying the same thing...and he is a Dream belt holder.. Shadyyyy
 

rtwil on Oct 11, 2010 at 5:01 pm ET
Nick Diaz put off fighting Mach because they were late with paying him the previous time.
 

themmaddict on Oct 11, 2010 at 5:08 pm ET
I also herd Relic Gracie say they haven't paid him yet either.
 

SheepleBuster on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:04 pm ET
MMA is a joke at this point. Any sane person about 2 years old who watched that fight gave the third round to Calvacante. I am just not quite sure how Tommy boy could get 30-27 decision in his favor. I mean it's nice he acknowledged it but it's still a loss for JZ so no cigar. This is a catasrophe and MMA will always be a joke in my mind until they get some real refs and judges in there.
 

TheCommish on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:17 pm ET
We need world peace too.

Look, the unified rules and state athletic commissions do not move swiftly.  I have a hard time believing anyone other than the UFC has a real political influence on the state athletic commissions.  That being said, the UFC is more focused on growing their product versus trying to appease a split decision here or there.

Does baseball need more instant replay? Yes.  Will it happen?  Eventually.

Does MMA need new judging metrics?  Absoutely.  Will it happen?  Probably not.  Why not?  Because you are asking for a complete overhaul of how you been evaluating performance.  It would be like the NFL changing touchdowns from 6 points to 8 points.  That is a major overhaul which would take a MAJOR adjustment period and could end up being more costly/detrimental than for fighters to adapt to the current system.

I would love for a new scoring system, but does anyone have any REAL proposals?
 

edub001 on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:28 pm ET
The scoring system wasn't the problem in this fight. It was the judges scoring.

I personally wouldn't mind if 75% of the judes in MMA today were fired.
 

bruno_sardine on Oct 11, 2010 at 5:06 pm ET
i personally wouldn't complain if random mmajunkie readers were assigned as judges instead of the real judges.  dare i say i think the accuracy of the judging in that scenario would probably be pretty good.
 

MMAMMAD1 on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:45 pm ET
What about just fighting until there is a sub, ko, tko etc...
Take the judges out of it completely.
This way the fighters fight until they can't fight anymore...

Thoughts on this?
 

JW1978 on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:59 pm ET
My thought: It would never be sanctioned by any state's commission.
 

FOOT2FACE on Oct 11, 2010 at 5:01 pm ET
i think when zuffa took ufc over part of the deal with u.s. sanctioning was rounds,time limits, and commission judging!
 

bigdmmafan on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:19 pm ET
I had JZ winning 29-28 by winning the first and third rounds. To me they both traded awesome submission attempts in the first but JZ also dropped Josh.

If you thought Josh won I'm cool with that too but man lately there has been some horrendous judging across the board.
 

TokyoJoe on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:29 pm ET
While the fight was very close, I thought JZ did enough to secure the W.

 

kmax1940 on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:20 pm ET
Thompson even looked shocked when they read the decision!!!
 

NopeNotTito on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:23 pm ET
Are you kidding me?  I agree that there are significant issues related to the judging of MMA fights but I just now realized that the discussion is not even centered upon common expectations.  How the hell are you going to argue that fighter A has an advantage over fighter B based upon the percentage of strikes landed?  This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.  If one is going to base their decision upon statistics (this is rather flawed in itself), then we must agree that the percentage is not the most salient bit of information to be considered.  I believe that the number of strikes landed should be considered first and the percentage should be used as a sort of tie breaker.  We need to agree upon the application of this information before we can argue the merits of specific cases.

 

TheCommish on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:26 pm ET
Agree.

Once we bring statistics into MMA, we are opening the door for EVERY fighter to adopt a point fighting (stat based) strategy.

Sigh.
 

BonesSpider on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:22 pm ET
Open the door? Are you serious the door has been blown off the hinges for point fighting in MMA. Do I like it , No, will it win alot of fights and even a belt for a fighter, Hell fkin Yes? I really believe a big problem in the Judging system is perception. B/c in reality Judge 1 watching the fight might appreciate Wrestling/takedowns more than Judge 2 who enjoys Striking more. I have no clue or ideas how to fix it, but I'm still pissed as hell they robbed Shogun in the first fight I had Rua winning by decision for 200 dollars at 12-1, so yeah when Judges cost me 2,400 dollars yeah I'm little fkin pissed at the current system. I've watched the JZ/Thompson fight twice now and it could have went either way, but to say either fighter won 30-27 is a joke and absurd for fans of this great sport.
 

travcm on Oct 11, 2010 at 6:03 pm ET
Your post was decent until you said you had Shogun winning 12-1.  Those were never the odds, anywhere.  In fact, +450 was about the highest it ever got.
 

BonesSpider on Oct 11, 2010 at 8:15 pm ET
12-1 on him winning by decision not by KO or Submission, I got 12-1 on him winning by decision if you don't believe I personally could give a chit less.
 

pedromfdo on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:30 pm ET
It is really rare to a judge give 10-8 in one round. IMO, this should be more flexible.

If a fighter dominates a round like Joe Lauzon did in his last fight, he should get 10-7.

If the fighter wins the round with no doubts, 10-8.

If it is a close round, the judge should give 10-9 to the fighter that, in his opinion, won that round, or,
if he thinks it´s a draw, 10-10.


 

TonyZimmzy2 on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:37 pm ET
Split for either guy depending on who was watching the fight. Unanimous decision was total bullsh*t.
 

UFCisSHADY on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:42 pm ET
I thought it was a draw 29-29.
1- Draw.
2- Thomson.
3- JZ.
 

grim_reaper on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:49 pm ET
There is no way to have a draw round without point deductions and those types of round are rare. The whole point of having an odd number of rounds is to determine a winner.

JZ winning the third round outright? He looked like the fat kid at the playground laying on his little brother. No action, just laying. I did not see him winning the 3rd for that reason. It was his round to win, he just did nothing with it.
 

bigdmmafan on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:53 pm ET
"There is no way to have a draw round without point deductions and those types of round are rare."

Yes there is a way for draw rounds without point deductions, it's called scoring the round 10-10. This doesnt happen a lot in mma but it is possible, most judges dont do it because if you score one round a draw and the other two rounds get split then it's a draw fight and fans hate "the draw".
 

QuickReference on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:51 pm ET
There are no draw rounds in MMA when the ref does not take away a point.

I know that it's silly, but the judges are forced to say who won the round. If they judge it as a draw, it means that they are unsure.

Another point is betting. No one bets that the fight ends in a draw, which should also be the reason why the refs don't give draw rounds, because if a round would be 10-10, 9-10 and 10-9, there must be a lot of draws!

 

Chromium on Oct 11, 2010 at 8:20 pm ET
Actually there are 10-10 draw rounds, they're just extremely rare. They are highly discouraged.
 

begbie on Oct 11, 2010 at 6:36 pm ET
The judges us a 10 point MUST system as they do in boxing.  This means they HAVE to pick a winner for a round.  No matter what, someone wins the round whether it be 10-9, 10-8, etc.

It may be flawed but it is a far better system than giving judges the ability to score a round 10-10.  With how competitve fights are nowdays, and how fighters can cancel each other out, too many judges would take the easy way out and score more rounds 10-10 even though one fighter may have had a small edge over the other.  I like the fact that they have to choose even if they don't always choose correctly.  Then we would constantly be reading on the mmajunkie boards about how fighter X won said fight and how could the judges score it a draw, etc etc etc.

Could you imagine all the draws we would start seeing in MMA? I'm sure the fighters don't want and for sure the fans don't! 
 

grim_reaper on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:43 pm ET
Huh, what? Concerned about judging? Then perhaps he should actually "fight" in the ring instead of lay on someone and hope to win a round after throwing a dozen punches that looked great to Mauro but hit NOTHING. Nobody to blame but himself. You have to win at least two rounds, he did not even win one. Exactly zero of the three judges thought he won more than one round. Zero. I have to agree. The fight as I saw it was 29-28 at best NOT in his favor.

He needs to suck it up, move on,  and build his stamina. He looked slower and weaker than Thompson for most of the bout.
 

bigdmmafan on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:49 pm ET
So you gave Thomson round 3 or did you score round 3 a draw?

From my view you could give round 1 to either Thomson or JZ or call it a draw, round 2 was Thomson no doubt, and round 3 was JZ(no doubt to me at least). I said above if you score this fight 29-28 Thomson I'm fine with it even though I had it for JZ but what did Thomson do to win round 3? 30-27 in my eyes is shameful.
 

holdenw1 on Oct 11, 2010 at 3:46 pm ET
Don't let it go to a decision then, brah
 

shooter on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:03 pm ET
California judging is the worst in the country.
 

Juldog9ho9 on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:18 pm ET
wow Dream didn't pay him that suxs feel for the guy & he wont that fight for sure he won the first & second round
 

Pedrouw on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:19 pm ET
If u placed a real bad bet,? and it goes to the judges, things becomes exciting again...
 

brentdaniels55 on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:53 pm ET
Maybe ex fighters should be scoring the fights.
 

QuickReference on Oct 11, 2010 at 4:53 pm ET
I guess that Cecil Peoples was one of the judges ;-)).
 

bigmark on Oct 11, 2010 at 6:34 pm ET
jz won the fight imo of course...but im really starting to get tired of this if you dont like the decision finish the fight....cause that arguement is just stupid, there needs to be a general reform of the scoring system a fighter should not be punished for not finishing the fight, 30-27 that female judge should be fired...its was probably her first time watching mma, what they should have are the actual refs judging the fights...i would say if herb dean, josh rosenthal, and mario yamasaki were the judges the right person woulkd have won that fight.....jz 29-28 all day
 

xralph87x on Oct 11, 2010 at 8:18 pm ET
JZ was robbed! Horrendous decision...
 

Mitch on Oct 11, 2010 at 8:55 pm ET
I havent seen the fight twice so Im not gonna pretend that my opinion is correct and valid enough to speak. So I cant
say that JZ won the fight but he did deserve more from that 3rd round. However its interesting to point out that judges finally gave someone credit from working on the bottom.  Judging is very frustrating to try to fix and say who is right and wrong.  The fact is that competition is so high now, that two fighters like Josh Thomson and JZ are both top 10 lightweights and if they battled again I believe it would be a close fight.  You cannot always finish a fight ecspecially if you are fighting one of the worlds best. I think that the half point scoring sytstem would be beneficial but no matter how they judge it  they're will always be close fights and ones that are difficult to score and say a clear cut winner. No judge wants to give a draw and with only 3 rounds sometimes it should be a draw. All i know is that JZ should get ano' chance to fight Josh and hopefully he will fight him outside of San Jose. thou just about every show strikeforce does in Cali.  Please keep fighting JZ  most hardcore fans do know you and want to see more from you!!
 

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