Feb. 28, 2010
Caught on Tape: Selling America's Secrets
Rare Video Obtained by "60 Minutes" Shows Pentagon Employee Selling Secrets to Chinese Spy
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Play CBS Video Video Stealing America's Secrets
60 Minutes has obtained an FBI videotape showing a Defense Department employee selling secrets to a Chinese spy that offers a rare glimpse into the secretive world of espionage. Scott Pelley reports.
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Video Extra: Cyber Spies
Former FBI Deputy Assistant Director John Slattery says computer hacking is only one front in the war against cyber spies.
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Video Extra: Sloppy Spying
Former FBI agent John Slattery is rather unimpressed with the spycraft shown by the Chinese in the Bergersen case.
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(CBS)
"Give me a sense of all the different ways you would persuade someone to spy for China?" Pelley asked Li.
"That will be a long story," Li replied.
In our interview, Li switched between English and Mandarin. He worked for Chinese intelligence 14 years, recruiting spies in Russia. He is now seeking political asylum in the U.S.
"Let me say this. Intelligence work is different from other kind of work. When I target a hundred people, even if 99 people have refused me, if there is one I persuade?that's enough," Li told Pelley.
Li told us he recruited spies through blackmail and sometimes greed, especially if someone wanted to do business in China. Once, he says his agents recruited the official photographer for a European head of state that he still won't name.
"Would you say the M.S.S. spends most of its effort on the United States?" Pelley asked.
"Definitely. Without a doubt," he replied.
"What would some examples be of some of the kind of information that M.S.S. was interested in getting a hold of?" Pelley asked.
"For example, what President Obama thinks right now," Li replied. Li said such information is of critical importance to the leaders of China?s Communist Party, which rules that country.
Thanks to Gregg Bergersen, the Chinese were about to find out just what sort of weapons America intended to sell to Taiwan. That day in the car, Bergersen drove Kuo and the secret documents to a restaurant in suburban Washington. After lunch, Kuo stayed in the restaurant and copied the secrets by hand.
Out in the parking lot, Bergersen waited with a glass of wine, one of those Cuban cigars, and the FBI in tow. They photographed him as he waited for Kuo to finish.
Once they got back in the car and began driving, Bergersen just couldn?t stop talking. He talked about another business arrangement he wanted to get into with Kuo.
"But I will be very careful to keep my tracks?clean," Bergersen told Kuo. "And no, no fingerprints. It?s just like these documents?no fingerprints, I can't afford to lose my job."
Later, Kuo left the U.S. for Beijing. But while he waited for his flight at Chicago's O'Hare Airport, federal agents got into his bags, photocopied his handwritten notes and put them back - without him finding out about them.
When they did a side-by-side comparison of his notes with the secret document, they discovered that they matched.
Produced by Henry Schuster
? MMX, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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- When American stopped executing people for treason, things really went down hill. Put them in jail and feed them for a long time. Let them go and they do it again. Shoot traitors and terrorists.
- Reply to this comment
- Who stole our anthrax sercrets? where is the [silicon] "enhanced" Antharx? It was in you mail!
PUBLISHED SEPT 4, 2001.
nytimes.com/2001/09/04/international/04GERM.html ?pagewanted=all
Earlier this year, administration officials said, the Pentagon drew up plans to engineer genetically a potentially more potent variant of the bacterium that causes anthrax, a deadly disease ideal for germ warfare."
"A published account of the experiment, which appeared in a scientific journal in late 1997, alarmed the Pentagon, which had just decided to require that American soldiers be vaccinated against anthrax. American officials tried to obtain a sample from Russia through a scientific exchange program to see whether the Russians had really created such a hybrid. The Americans also wanted to test whether the microbe could defeat the American vaccine, which is different from that used by Russia.
Despite repeated promises, the bacteria were never provided.
Eventually the C.I.A. drew up plans to replicate the strain, but intelligence officials said the agency hesitated because there was no specific report that an adversary was attempting to turn the superbug into a weapon.
This year, officials said, the project was taken over by the Pentagon's intelligence arm, the Defense Intelligence Agency. Pentagon lawyers reviewed the proposal and said it complied with the treaty. Officials said the research would be part of Project Jefferson, yet another government effort to track the dangers posed by germ weapons.
A spokesman for Defense Intelligence, Lt. Cmdr. James Brooks, declined comment. Asked about the precautions at Battelle, which is to create the enhanced anthrax, Commander Brooks said security was "entirely suitable for all work already conducted and planned for Project Jefferson." - Reply to this comment
- Espionage is punishable by execution. If our government would act swiftly with this I believe the Bergersens and Kuos of the world would lessen. Ask Ethel and Julius Rosenberg!
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- msay3
Same punishment = nothing no punishment goose stepping fool. - Reply to this comment
- Whatever happened to objective 60 Minutes reporting? From the opening lines this story had an obvious anti China bias. China isn't stealing anything. We all saw the tape. It was a red blooded American citizen who sold those secrets. Odd how the word traitor wasn't even mentioned.
What's next? Accuse China of stealing U.S. jobs? Ha! Our companies and our government shipped the jobs there. Clearly, China did not steal them either.
If the CIA is going to ghostwrite the stories at least try a little harder to conceal the spin. For a good twenty minutes we thought we were watching Fox. - Reply to this comment
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- Watch the segment again. Kuo was working for the Chinese government as a spy in exchange for a allowing Kuo to expand his legitimate business into China. And yes, they were BOTH U.S. citizens and both are traitors. However, neither would have been involved in the spy business if not for the Chinese government's request for the data, so I can't see how you can justify your statement that "China isn't stealing anything."
- Hey, CBS - I think you better not publish these stories anymore; you risk the ire of the American multinationals who are selling us out to China - and that is big money in advertising.
And "big money" doesn't even come close to describing what is on the horizon, once the political advertising starts rolling out. - Reply to this comment
- "Whoa, oh, are you sure that's okay?" Bergersen asked.
What an idiot. He should have incorporated, and then handed the secrets over. Then he could have claimed that the profit motive and his right to practice capitalism shielded him.
Or, if that failed, then that his corporation was just indulging its right to free speech. - Reply to this comment
- Jeez, military and state secrets are SMALL potatoes.
Industrial espionage COSTS the country 10x, 100x, 1000x what the loss of military secrets costs.
And the TOP countries for industrial espionage against the US are: (envelop please),
1) France
2) Israel
3) Japan - Reply to this comment
- by rharrin1 March 1, 2010 9:36 AM EST
They should have gotten the same punishment that bush and cheney got for outing a cia agent and it's front company which is treason.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~....and exactly what was the "same punishment"???? raharrini1, why don't you crawl back under your rock before you say something really stupid!!!! - Reply to this comment
- Five years for the sale of classified information? No wonder government employees risk selling U.S. secrets -- the punishment is incredibly light, given the gravity of the offense. I've seen people get nearly that much jail time for shoplifting.
- Reply to this comment