Feb. 28, 2010

Caught on Tape: Selling America's Secrets

Rare Video Obtained by "60 Minutes" Shows Pentagon Employee Selling Secrets to Chinese Spy

  • Play CBS Video Video Stealing America's Secrets

    60 Minutes has obtained an FBI videotape showing a Defense Department employee selling secrets to a Chinese spy that offers a rare glimpse into the secretive world of espionage. Scott Pelley reports.

  • Video Extra: Cyber Spies

    Former FBI Deputy Assistant Director John Slattery says computer hacking is only one front in the war against cyber spies.

  • Video Extra: Sloppy Spying

    Former FBI agent John Slattery is rather unimpressed with the spycraft shown by the Chinese in the Bergersen case.

  •  (CBS)

(CBS)  John Slattery, who oversaw the case for the FBI, told us the bureau didn't make arrests until six month later, in February 2008. The FBI says Kuo and Bergersen had made plans to meet later that day in the Washington area and they feared more secret material would be exchanged.

"But I mean this is drop dead evidence. And espionage is occurring. Why didn't you arrest them sooner than that?" Pelley asked.

"Well these investigations are tremendously complex and tremendously difficult to begin with," Slattery explained.

"The Department of Defense wants you to stop it right away," Pelley pointed out.

"Please. Sooner than later. But the FBI says, 'Well listen, we wanna make sure we can sustain a conviction here. And are there other players in this?'" Slattery replied.

It turns out there were other players: Kuo had another source inside the Pentagon and Kuo was connected to spies on the West Coast who were giving up U.S. space and naval technology. Presumably the U.S. is doing the same kind of spying in China, but Michelle Van Cleave says America has so much more to lose.

"I think we're a real candy store for the Chinese and for others in terms of technology, and commercial products, or other proprietary information and so we will always be the principal target for them," she explained.

Asked what the most serious damage is Chinese espionage has done to the United States, Slattery said, "It's the totality of the collection effort. Take a case like this or cases like this. Traditional espionage. Penetration of the interior. Couple that with industrial and economic collection. Couple that with cyber. It greatly concerns me. It greatly concerns me."

"Well, I hope this all works out, I mean you are helping me a lot here?but, but, but I don?t want anyone to know about our?relationship or anything because ah, it could get me in a lot of trouble," Bergersen told Kuo inside the bugged car,

Bergersen kept saying, "I could go to jail" and both men did.

In 2008, prosecutors showed them this tape and they pleaded guilty. Bergersen got almost five years for communicating national defense information; Kuo, a naturalized American citizen, is in a U.S. federal prison doing 15 years for espionage.

Prison may have been the best option Bergersen had. After he left the car, Kuo could be seen on the video pulling out his own tape recorder. We'll never know why he taped the damning conversation but it is classic spy craft to use blackmail to get at ever deeper and deeper secrets.

"For every case that is broken, like the Bergersen case for example, how many others are there that we have no idea about?" Pelley asked Van Cleave.

"Oh, isn't that the important question? You never know what you don't know. But we certainly we have seen such an extensive range of activities by the Chinese that it should make you very uncomfortable," Van Cleave replied.



Produced by Henry Schuster
? MMX, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Add a Comment See all 91 Comments
by rocketjl March 4, 2010 11:52 AM EST
When American stopped executing people for treason, things really went down hill. Put them in jail and feed them for a long time. Let them go and they do it again. Shoot traitors and terrorists.
Reply to this comment
by Funky-President March 3, 2010 3:27 PM EST
Who stole our anthrax sercrets? where is the [silicon] "enhanced" Antharx? It was in you mail!

PUBLISHED SEPT 4, 2001.

nytimes.com/2001/09/04/international/04GERM.html ?pagewanted=all

Earlier this year, administration officials said, the Pentagon drew up plans to engineer genetically a potentially more potent variant of the bacterium that causes anthrax, a deadly disease ideal for germ warfare."

"A published account of the experiment, which appeared in a scientific journal in late 1997, alarmed the Pentagon, which had just decided to require that American soldiers be vaccinated against anthrax. American officials tried to obtain a sample from Russia through a scientific exchange program to see whether the Russians had really created such a hybrid. The Americans also wanted to test whether the microbe could defeat the American vaccine, which is different from that used by Russia.

Despite repeated promises, the bacteria were never provided.

Eventually the C.I.A. drew up plans to replicate the strain, but intelligence officials said the agency hesitated because there was no specific report that an adversary was attempting to turn the superbug into a weapon.

This year, officials said, the project was taken over by the Pentagon's intelligence arm, the Defense Intelligence Agency. Pentagon lawyers reviewed the proposal and said it complied with the treaty. Officials said the research would be part of Project Jefferson, yet another government effort to track the dangers posed by germ weapons.

A spokesman for Defense Intelligence, Lt. Cmdr. James Brooks, declined comment. Asked about the precautions at Battelle, which is to create the enhanced anthrax, Commander Brooks said security was "entirely suitable for all work already conducted and planned for Project Jefferson."
Reply to this comment
by betterusa March 3, 2010 8:18 AM EST
Espionage is punishable by execution. If our government would act swiftly with this I believe the Bergersens and Kuos of the world would lessen. Ask Ethel and Julius Rosenberg!
Reply to this comment
by rharrin1 March 2, 2010 9:02 AM EST
msay3

Same punishment = nothing no punishment goose stepping fool.
Reply to this comment
by gordonsmithr March 1, 2010 5:04 PM EST
Whatever happened to objective 60 Minutes reporting? From the opening lines this story had an obvious anti China bias. China isn't stealing anything. We all saw the tape. It was a red blooded American citizen who sold those secrets. Odd how the word traitor wasn't even mentioned.

What's next? Accuse China of stealing U.S. jobs? Ha! Our companies and our government shipped the jobs there. Clearly, China did not steal them either.

If the CIA is going to ghostwrite the stories at least try a little harder to conceal the spin. For a good twenty minutes we thought we were watching Fox.
Reply to this comment
by March 2, 2010 5:44 PM EST
Is Katie Couric being replaced by Anderson Cooper? Heard this today.
by G-mannnn March 3, 2010 12:29 PM EST
Watch the segment again. Kuo was working for the Chinese government as a spy in exchange for a allowing Kuo to expand his legitimate business into China. And yes, they were BOTH U.S. citizens and both are traitors. However, neither would have been involved in the spy business if not for the Chinese government's request for the data, so I can't see how you can justify your statement that "China isn't stealing anything."
by ibsteve2u March 1, 2010 4:51 PM EST
Hey, CBS - I think you better not publish these stories anymore; you risk the ire of the American multinationals who are selling us out to China - and that is big money in advertising.

And "big money" doesn't even come close to describing what is on the horizon, once the political advertising starts rolling out.
Reply to this comment
by cride1 March 2, 2010 8:27 AM EST
I doubt that any of the CBS producers read any of the comments here. I would be surprised if they even knew that readers/viewers could comment on their Web site!
by ibsteve2u March 1, 2010 4:32 PM EST
"Whoa, oh, are you sure that's okay?" Bergersen asked.

What an idiot. He should have incorporated, and then handed the secrets over. Then he could have claimed that the profit motive and his right to practice capitalism shielded him.

Or, if that failed, then that his corporation was just indulging its right to free speech.
Reply to this comment
by Ms_enza March 1, 2010 2:42 PM EST
Jeez, military and state secrets are SMALL potatoes.

Industrial espionage COSTS the country 10x, 100x, 1000x what the loss of military secrets costs.

And the TOP countries for industrial espionage against the US are: (envelop please),
1) France
2) Israel
3) Japan
Reply to this comment
by ibsteve2u March 1, 2010 4:33 PM EST
lolll....quote a source, and I will believe you - assuming the source is reputable.
by Ms_enza March 2, 2010 10:30 AM EST
Sorry, those were government reports from the Bush years... and you asked for "reputable" sources. Let me look about for souces since Jan 2009...
by msay3 March 1, 2010 2:15 PM EST
by rharrin1 March 1, 2010 9:36 AM EST
They should have gotten the same punishment that bush and cheney got for outing a cia agent and it's front company which is treason.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~....and exactly what was the "same punishment"???? raharrini1, why don't you crawl back under your rock before you say something really stupid!!!!
Reply to this comment
by borg99 March 1, 2010 1:42 PM EST
Five years for the sale of classified information? No wonder government employees risk selling U.S. secrets -- the punishment is incredibly light, given the gravity of the offense. I've seen people get nearly that much jail time for shoplifting.
Reply to this comment
by Ms_enza March 1, 2010 2:43 PM EST
Have you spent five years in a Federal pen?
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