I agree with the sentiments expressed here. I'm often asked "where are you from" and have hardly ever detected any untoward agenda. If people see that you are different they are likely to be curious. Can't be a bad thing.
In any event, it's actually quite fun responding to such questions. I'm surprised Ms Sherine doesn't think the same; she does spend an awful lot of time writing about herself on these pages.

Good article.

My standard response was 'Leicester' when I lived in England and 'England' now I live in New Zealand. Agreed that it is usually a question with no malice intended. Humans like to pigeonhole, we all do it. We do it between countries and within countries too e.g. 'Ah, your from Bristol, have you ever met Banksy'?'

Talking about a mixed or ethnic background should be celebrated as it wasn't too long ago people were beaten up for being 'different' and John Barnes was having bananas thrown at him every saturday.

I have moved 20 miles outside the metropolis,for employment purposes.
I tell my new neighbours,that I am," a refugee".
This is to put their minds at rest,that i am not,a "Dodgy geezer".
They seem reassured.

If only,I could play the race card.

An old mixed-race friend explains racial purity thus:

"At least they couldn't play Duelling Banjos at my parents wedding"

I welcome the 'Where are you from?' question my brown skin elicits

It's not skin colour that's my cue for that question, it's accent.

"At one level, this is merely part of two people getting to know each other."

No it's not, that's the problem. More often than not, they don't want to waste any time getting to know you - they want the quick and simple label for you. White/brown/black, christian/muslim, like me/not like me.

There is no time being taken here to appreciate commonalities, but a very quick pursuit of easily identified differences: where you were born, where your parents were born, do you 'go back' often. If they were interested in thinking of people like us as their equals, in any way the same, they would probably have noticed we have exactly the same accents and not asked silly questions.

I don't define racism as treating me badly for my ethnicity, but treating me differently for it. If you ask me a question you wouldn't ask someone white called John Smith, then YOU'RE BEING RACISTS, because your treating me differently just because (in my case) I have a foreign-sounding name. That's just not a good reason to make someone feel like an outsider, whatever your motives.

Ariane Sherine articulated something that I've always had to put up with and I was pleased to see it in print. I was also relieved to see the Guardian put it into print for the simple reason that, being fairly left wing, the Guardian has a habit of resting on the old left-wing fallacy that economic divisions are the true fault-lines in society and racial issues are simply secondary. This response simply shows that even those from ethnic minorities can be duped into believing it. I know class wasn't specifically referenced in the article - but the response does, to me, smack of someone who takes something other than race far more seriously, writing in a paper that takes something other than race far more seriously.

With the world cup approaching, I'm getting the 'cricket test' all the time. Will I be supporting Greece? NO. And no one has the right to 'check' who I'll be supporting. I have the same accent and pay the same taxes, I shouldn't have to put up with different questions if I don't want to and have done nothing to provoke them.

@David:

These conversations are well worth having...

What is wrong with you man? Don't you know you have a right, nay a duty, to 'take offence' every time you interact with another human being? Then you need to write a column on CiF talking a lot about yourself and preening yourself for how precious you are. Your CiF fans will cream themselves over it.

Where the hell would we be if everybody thought and behaved like you?

When I occasionally inquire about someone's ethnic origin I ask "where does your family originate". Most times though I'm not that interested, although occasionally I do see rather fascinating looking people (usually women, I have to admit ).

With you Porthos!!

And like Ariane Sherine, I have had it to the back teeth of people asking me "The Question" and having "that conversation" time and time again.

I actually find it offensive that people feel that it is alright to ask me intimate questions I may not want to answer for all kind of reasons and disguise it as "taking an interest" in me.

I take an interest in people yet, I do not find myself asking them for their complete genealogy!! If anyone wants to take an interest in anyone, does it have to revert to colour (and no, the excuse that it's the obvious trait people can relate to is just too feeble).
To repeat myself, I do take an interest in people and it is never about colour. Once you know me better, OK, ask the question but not before!!

I`ve got mixed race children, so it is a point of interest to me. I much prefer David`s point of view and calm to the Guardian`s typical choice of commentators on these matters.

It is worth bearing in mind that just being mixed-race does not make a person an instant fount of wisdom on the matter. They do have to be intelligent, clear-thinking and open-minded too. I`m Scottish but am not particularly qualified to write about the place. Ditto for mixed-race people re: race.

I wish people would emphasise their mixed-race roots more. It`s great that people like David exist and it is a pity that (unlike mixed-race white/black people) there are relatively few people in the UK who are partly British, partly Indian or Pakistani or Bangladeshi. It would have improved race relations, I`m sure.

These mixed-race people are the stepping stones to a more harmonious future. The best thing people of genuine goodwill who aren`t playing political games could do is emphasise the `foot in both camps` side. If you think Obama is just `Black` then like the KKK, you are part of the problem - and I don`t care about some shite about `but he identifies with....`

i'm descended from celtic or anglo saxon...and i get asked every day where i'm from...it's quite annoying, but living in myanmar, not unexpected....

Well said David

I'm that sort of muddy colour that passes for white in winter England and people are always asking where I come from.
It's not as if I've got much of an accent or a sandwich tucked behind one ear, it's just plain, old fashioned curiosity.

Americans do it too.

A good and thoughtful piece Mr Wearing, I hope it gets the post-Ariane attention it deserves.

Auric says

I wish people would emphasise their mixed-race roots more. It`s great that people like David exist and it is a pity that (unlike mixed-race white/black people) there are relatively few people in the UK who are partly British, partly Indian or Pakistani or Bangladeshi. It would have improved race relations, I`m sure.

Yes, it's one of the great unspokens isn't it? Brits of South Asian origin don't marry blacks and marriages between the groups are pretty uncommon. I think this is now changing, of slowly; I know someone from a Pakistani family in Glasgow who has married a Bangladeshi girl despite fierce opposition for both families and the families now seem to be coming round - after about five years.

" Clearly these are personal feelings. "

I have been asked this question a few times. It's not unusual though - I understand why the question is asked and it's no big deal, I just answer in the spirit of the question - I myself have even asked people I thought were Polish or Afghans where they are from, purely out of curiosity, only to find they were Hungarian or Iraqi. I have known Brits in America to be asked if they are from Australia! In some cases, like Ariane Sherine's case, I think it is just a personal identity crisis - some people do not seem comfortable with their ethnicity.

Your article is very welcome, if only all non-whites were the same but with the current laws on anti-racism I'm still scared to talk to non-whites in the work place because I am too fearful of losing my job when I was just trying to make conversation. I ask white people where they are from, my stock phrase has always been "you born and bred round here", that's what they say from where I'm from. It's not like white people are always from Britain anyway, sometimes they are East European, Australian, American or had forces parents who dragged them all over the planet as they grew up. I used to positively discriminate (rightly or wrongly) in recruitment but a couple of years ago I asked a black colleague if he was "born and bred round here" and the next day got a final written warning. For my own protection I now avoid casual conversation with people who aint my race and sex and I avoid recruiting them - you gotta look after number one.
I wish it wasn't so cause trust me I've spent my adult life arguing with many people with racist views - who all cracked up when they heard about my final warning, they sure loved telling me "I told you - they're all the same blah blah blah". Just seems ridiculous that a lonely non-racist has had to effectively become a racist for his own job security. It doesn't change how I interact with races and sexes outside work but at work I've been turned into a fascist - but then I tend to view large corporations as borderline fascist so I guess it makes sense.
The above does sound ridiculous but Human Resources said that the law isn't what you said (which I didn't deny as I hadn't intended to be racist) it is how it is interpreted by the other party so they had to give me a Final Warning as he had taken offence.

Stephen K Amos has a routine in which he describes the fascination his accent causes in the US. It climaxes with a black receptionist asking him - 'Are you from France?'

What nonsense. The problem isn't people who ask the question and then accept the answer you give. It's the people who then follow up with "no, where are you really from?" What better way is there to say "your skin colour/accent/religion/dress sense don't belong round here?" However innocently it is meant, the basic assumption is exclusionary.

I get asked this reasonably often. But that's usually out in a pub or club where there are indeed lots of tourists, visitors or foreign students. I think people expect me to be Spanish or Latin American. It depends on my mood and how they strike me whether I'm irritated or not, and whether I go on to give them the short or long explanation. And for that reason, I sometimes agree with Ariane, sometimes with David.

@buserian Thank you. Sherine's point was that she didn't mind "where are you from?" but the follow up "where are you really from?" etc. That washat she was objecting to and saying was racist. This was explained ad infinitum on the other thread.
Most of us have bits of other countries and cultures in us but it is only if the skin colour is different that we get this type of inquisition.
You remind me of black Americans who insisted that they were African until they visited Africa and were firmly told by Africans that they were American.

Porthos:

So acknowledging difference on any level, at any point, with anyone, is racist? That's not just simplistic, its untenable and worse than that, horrifically dull.

It is slightly irritating and off if near-total strangers ask where you're from all the time, especially if you've got a complicated or personal family history behind it you'd rather not get into. But given the mix of people living in somewhere like London, wouldn't you be missing out a little if you ignored the fact that everyone has a slightly different background? Some of the most interesting conversations I've had come from this kind of starting point. To me, its just like any religion/politics/money/sex conversation with sensitivities around it, there's appropriate times and places and people and there's definitely a wrong way to talk about it but its difficult because that's where the fun is.

A nice, well balanced article.
Living abroad I also get this question too.

I am kind of blue/ opaque colour in winter,
a lighter shade of pale in Spring,
I go very white when shocked or about to throw-up
I go very red in summer sun and when I am angry,
I go quite blotchy and irregular coloured when I am sick or hungover.
I occassionally go brown when I apply sunlotion carefully.
And I have very red sideburns and red hair.

When I speak German in that bastion of racial harmony - Austria - I am mistaken for Swiss or Dutch and when I speak English they ask why I left Scotland.

Simple curiosity is human nature. "Stereotyping", categorising and inquisitiveness are basic human nature and ofter help us in our daily lives and make friendships as well as warning us to avoid the shaven-headed guy wearing jack-boots waving his outstreached right hand in the air.

I don't see it as racist to think that people with non-white skin are less British than me. It is the same as me being less African or Indian than some people. It doesn't make you any less equal it's just a statement about your heritage. I signed up for a genetic test to see where I came from and although my family has lived in England for as far back as I know it was nevertheless fascinating to see I had Irish and European genes. So I'm less British than someone whose genes only have British markers and such people could call me less British - I won't burst into tears over it. People have to stop looking for offence all the time, if you are always on the alert for racism you will keep finding it and they will continue to divide and conquer us.

Porthos & Kindofblues

As I said, I can't comment on other people's experiences, yours or Ariane's. It all depends on how the question's asked / the intent of the person asking. I can only talk about my own experience, which is mostly (by no means always) that people are just asking out of friendly curiosity with no value judgement attached to it.

Kindofblues , if you feel people who ask the question are being too familiar then that's how you feel. I don't see it that way myself.

However, Porthos, when you say

I don't define racism as treating me badly for my ethnicity, but treating me differently for it. If you ask me a question you wouldn't ask someone white called John Smith, then YOU'RE BEING RACISTS, because your treating me differently just because (in my case) I have a foreign-sounding name. That's just not a good reason to make someone feel like an outsider, whatever your motives.

I really can't agree with that at all, I'm afraid. Acknowledging the mere reality of a person's ethnicity is certainly not racist. And our ethnicity may make us different, but that doesn't mean we don't have a perfect right to be here. Difference doesn't make you an outsider. A racist minority think it does, and you can't help being on your guard as long as those people exist, but they are a minority. You're effectively saying its illegitimate for anyone to ask you about your background, and that its intrinsically racist for anyone to do so. Obviously that's not true.

forumsfeedback

I don't see it as racist to think that people with non-white skin are less British than me. It is the same as me being less African or Indian than some people. It doesn't make you any less equal it's just a statement about your heritage.

v.important point, and one I wish I'd had room to make myself in the article. "Less British" doesn't mean less equal or having less of a right to live in this country. Absolutely not.

I don't feel 100% British, and nor do I want to, since I'm as comfortable with the part of my background that isn't British as I am with the part that is. On some occasions I feel more British than others. I'm as comfortable talking about "British people" in the third as in the first person. But what none of this changes is my right to live here and be treated equally to everyone else.

Racists may see difference as meaning a lack of entitlement or equality, but I refuse to concede that point to them.

professorfile

I was watching the BBC documentary "Death of Yugoslavia" the other day. Your notions of blood and soil remind me a lot of the people responsible for the Balkan wars. They saw the world in the same way that you do. Thankfully, most people don't.

As regards the "acceptance" you think you see, you misunderstand English politeness. I speak to English people about their race-replacement everyday. We all want the same thing, but will not say so until we are sure we are in safe company.

You think my Dad married my Mum out of politeness?

I agree with andinoble. I'm fair complexioned, in a city of mostly darker skinned inhabitants. My looks and my slight New England towny accent get me lots of inquiries about where I'm from. I use it as an opportunity to ask my curious acquaintances the same question. Their stories are often more interesting than my own.

Professorfile

Several years back, I played host to some English tourists, friends of friends. One was black, the other brown. Besides having passports proclaiming them as Her Majesty's subjects, both were as British as binge drinking and baked beans for breakfast. You can bleat on about racial purity and the loss of your country. But with their strange language and turbulent history, the English have always been mutts.

I'm curious: how are you planning on voting in the general election this year?

@andinoble

I am kind of blue/ opaque colour in winter,
a lighter shade of pale in Spring,
I go very white when shocked or about to throw-up
I go very red in summer sun and when I am angry,
I go quite blotchy and irregular coloured when I am sick or hungover.
I occassionally go brown when I apply sunlotion carefully.
And I have very red sideburns and red hair.

...and we "white" people have the nerve to call other races "coloured", eh?

Joke, people. Old joke from South Africa, where I'm from.

Actually I have a pretty neutral home counties accent now, but my name is very definitely foreign (not even common at my point of origin). I often have to explain where I'm from in detail, and deal with the "Do you go back often" question too. It's annoying sometimes, but I've never thought of it as discriminatory.

Sensible article.

I welcome comments from people enquiring as to whether I have a large snake in my trousers too.

Good article and excellent thread.

Actually looks and skin tone are far less important to the average English person than voice. As soon as someone opens their mouth to speak it is instinctive to pigeonhole them as to class, upbringing, education, place of birth, etc. Not a particularly laudable trait but a real one. That is why respectable dating agencies have a facility to leave a recorded voice message for prospective partners to hear.

SeattleOrca
9 Mar 2010, 9:31AM
Introducing new genomes into the British gene pool can only be a positive thing, especially for the mind, skin and teeth.

Off you waddle sonny, there's some "world" news you need to watch about Canada and that awful fatty bacon won't cook itself.

I am slightly brown skinned. I am anglo-saxon of Flemish descent. Born in Britain. I am aware that people look at my permanently sunburnt brownish skin with a questioning gaze. Born like that. I am not a white lilly coloured wimp. Seem to be asked where I have been on holiday more than most, I reply I went for a weekend to Paris in 2000 and spent most time in museums. Confusion appears to cross their mind.

With the world cup approaching, I'm getting the 'cricket test' all the time. Will I be supporting Greece? NO. And no one has the right to 'check' who I'll be supporting.

Being a bit paranoid there aren't you Porthos? I can understand you being annoyed with the "where are you from" question but there is such a thing as just making conversation and if you can't make it about football, what can you make it about?

I don't get offended when I get people asking me where I am from. I get amused. And the wilder the guesses, the more amused I get. The really funny thing is that the wildest guesses usually come from people with the same skin colour / ethnicity, because of language, accent, dress, interests. Especially since accent, since my accent is mishmash mess.

At the same time, I disagree with, I reject, the idea that I should have some special connection with where my (great)grandparents were from. Or that my heritage should be defined by that.This has nothing to do with any personal identity crisis. I'm really just not interested; and my lack of interest has nothing to do with lack of knowledge, I speak / read the language, I studied the classic literature, the poetry, have been exposed to the culture.

@ AntHopkins

"To me, its just like any religion/politics/money/sex conversation with sensitivities around it, there's appropriate times and places and people and there's definitely a wrong way to talk about it but its difficult because that's where the fun is."

and @ Dwearing

"Difference doesn't make you an outsider."

You can chose your job. You chose who you vote for. You even chose your religion, because belief is active and requires engagement even if you haven't converted.

When meeting someone for the first time, would you immediately need to know their sexuality? Would you let their gender influence how you got to know them or made judgements about them? Race is not something we chose, it's something your born with.

When someone, say like me, actively CHOSES to spend every minute of holiday time in Cyprus and starts openly supporting Greece in the world cup, then they have made a choice and judging that choice or using it to define that person is perfectly reasonable. But in this case, your innocent until proven guilty, and no one has the right to assume I do either of those things. As has been suggested - if you hear a British accent, say hello to the British person.

@forumsfeedback

Your post would make some kind of sense if you could actually give a definition of "British" that held any water. I won't hold my breath.

After their dismal performance as "taker-of-offence" for all Americans on the original thread, SeattleOrca decides to come back swinging this time.

Sadly, their wild haymaker connects with their own chin and knocks them out.

Dwearing

"You think my Dad married my Mum out of politeness?"

it is polite to propose after a good shag, no?

insertfunnyusername

I don't get offended when I get people asking me where I am from. I get amused. And the wilder the guesses, the more amused I get. The really funny thing is that the wildest guesses usually come from people with the same skin colour / ethnicity, because of language, accent, dress, interests.

Yeah, I get asked the question a lot by other non-white people, especially South Asians, who are apparently interested in what we have in common. Central/South Americans ask for the same reason, guessing from my appearance that my family's from their part of the world.

At the same time, I disagree with, I reject, the idea that I should have some special connection with where my (great)grandparents were from.

I don't argue that you should, necessarily. I don't demand that everyone have the same sense of connection to their heritage that I have to mine.

However, Ariane seems to be surprised by the very suggestion that she might feel that connection to her background. Not sure I understand that. Is there anything surprising or unusual about diaspora feeling connected to where they or their families originated? Isn't an interest in our family's past an entirely familiar part of human nature? The existence of TV programmes like "Who Do You Think You Are?", or a websites like Ancestry.com are reflections of that. It may not be logical in a narrow sense of the word, but there it is.

So if people begin with the assumption that I may well feel that way myself about my own background, then that's entirely reasonable. Obviously if others aren't interested in their heritage then that's entirely up to them. I find exploring that interest very fulfilling, myself .But as I say, its a personal thing.

Porthos

your innocent until proven guilty

Being of a different background isn't a crime. I don't know your experiences, but speaking generally, if people see difference in you that doesn't in and of itself mean they see guilt or are making a value judgement.

My mother, who was ever considerate and polite, asked a Chinese friend 'Where do you come from ?"

Immediate polite and correct reply: "Wigan !"

We all had a good laugh !

Last time I asked a person with a brown skin where she came from, it was for the same reason that I would have asked a person with a "white" (aka, at tis time of year, blotchy beige) skin: I thought I recognised the accent of my home town, Preston. (I was right: we had a good old chinwag about how they've modernised the city centre and wrecked it.) Not all such questions from friendly English aboriginals are racist, you know.

@ DWearing

"Being of a different background isn't a crime."

Erm, obviously I didn't explicity use the phrase in it's original context - I simply meant you can't assume something to be the case until you are actually presented with evidence. The power, I feel, should lie in the person from an ethnic minorty background to present that evidence.

"I don't know your experiences, but speaking generally, if people see difference in you that doesn't in and of itself mean they see guilt or are making a value judgement."

My god, have you really been so lucky? The people who are just curious, for me, have always been the exception to the rule. It is, for most people, a very explicit and unjustified value judgement.

v.important point, and one I wish I'd had room to make myself in the article. "Less British" doesn't mean less equal or having less of a right to live in this country. Absolutely not.

Hallelujah ! Well done David, at last someone on cif "gets it".
You are "less British" than me, simply by me having no "exotic" blood ( bar one drunken Scot who wandered south and got a g.g.grandmother up the duff). I can't help being all British any more than you can help having an Indian parent.
It makes not one bit of difference in terms of entitlement or equality.
I suspect the "where are you really from" question is , often, simply a way of trying to find common ground , as in, "Oh, I went there once" etc.

[homophone corner]
I was asked it once in French (in France), but initially I did a double-take since I thought I was being asked if I was soft ...

From the tenor of their posts on various topics I have always thought that the two David's here and Sherine are definitely "one of us" (plural?) because the share the general world view of the Guardian.
I go more with Sherine than David because I really don't think that ancestry is important. I am not proud of what my ancestors or people with similar cultural or genetic background achieved. They did it not I, so I admire them for it rather than feel proud.
If awareness of the massive contirbution of India to world civilisation makes David feel more comfortable with himself well and good. If Sherine prefers to emphasise the cosmopolitan multiculturalism that Hobbawn or Berlin expounded that is also fine. In the end we must all feel comfortable in our own skins.