• On CHOW: Can girls use the guys' bathroom?
April 23, 2008 11:48 AM PDT

FBI wants widespread monitoring of 'illegal' Internet activity

by Anne Broache
  • Font size
  • Print
  • 55 comments

WASHINGTON--The FBI on Wednesday called for new legislation that would allow federal police to monitor the Internet for "illegal activity."

The suggestion from FBI Director Robert Mueller, which came during a House of Representatives Judiciary Committee hearing, appears to go beyond a current plan to monitor traffic on federal-government networks. Mueller seemed to suggest that the bureau should have a broad "omnibus" authority to conduct monitoring and surveillance of private-sector networks as well.

The surveillance should include all Internet traffic, Mueller said, "whether it be .mil, .gov, .com--whichever network you're talking about." (See the transcript of the hearing.)

In response to questions from Rep. Darrell Issa, a California Republican, Mueller said his idea "balances on one hand, the privacy rights of the individual who are receiving the information, but on the other hand, given the technology, the necessity of having some omnibus search capability utilizing filters that would identify the illegal activity as it comes through and give us the ability to preempt that illegal activity where it comes through a choke point."

In response, Issa said: "Can you have someone on your staff designated to work with members of Congress on trying to craft that legislation?"

If any omnibus Internet-monitoring proposal became law, it could implicate the Fourth Amendment's guarantee of freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. In general, courts have ruled that police need search warrants to obtain the content of communication, and the federal Wiretap Act created "super warrant" wiretap orders that require additional steps and judicial oversight.

In addition, it's unclear whether "illegal activity" would be limited to responding to denial-of-service attacks and botnets, or would also include detecting other illegal activities, such as online gambling, the distribution of "obscene" images of adults engaged in sexual acts, or selling drugs without a license.

Robert Mueller

Robert Mueller

(Credit: FBI )

To be fair, Wednesday's discussion of the plan was geared toward cybercrime and the Bush administration's classified "cyberinitiative," which includes a shadowy program known as Einstein.

Some politicians have already raised concerns that even Einstein, which is described as dealing only with government networks and not private ones, could infringe upon the privacy rights of American citizens. It's already in place at 15 federal agencies, but Homeland Security has said it's still preparing the necessary privacy impact assessments for a proposed $293 million governmentwide Einstein expansion.

Issa, for his part, referred on Wednesday to malicious attacks being undertaken by foreign and domestic hackers who want to "take control of computers" and harvest the national-security secrets and private information of government agencies, private companies, and individual Americans.

"What authorities do you need to monitor, looking for those illegal activities, and then act on those, both defensively and, either yourselves or certainly other agencies, offensively in order to shut down a crime in process?" Issa asked.

In response, Mueller said he would be happy to have his legislative staff work with members of Issa's committee on creating a bill for a broader-reaching surveillance system.

Issa suggested that perhaps the FBI already has the power to seek voluntary private-sector partners that would like to be "defended" by its agents, provided that they give the FBI their consent. Mueller, however, wasn't so sure, saying, "that's going to require some thought."

[6:00 pm: Updated story with additional quotations from transcript of the hearing.]

CNET News.com's Declan McCullagh contributed to this report.

Recent posts from News Blog
Nvidia puts NForce chipset development on hold
Opera 10 browser is here
Neil Young Archives Blu-ray: Rip off?
Acronis revises survey results about backup habits
Acronis miscalculates data on users' bad backup habits
Flickr co-founder presses beta button
Comcast, Sony open retail store
Cox to try coaxing the Internet into submission
Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 2 pages (55 Comments)
It was bound to end this way
by DrDubious April 23, 2008 12:37 PM PDT
The Internet is dead.
Reply to this comment
FBI Monitoring Internet? They already are
by CTin Jersey April 28, 2008 4:33 PM PDT
A good portion of the botnet activity has the government behind it. Believe it or not, but I found the connection.

Privacy on the Net right now is a myth.

We are living an Orwelian nightmare.
by al.johnson March 9, 2009 7:45 AM PDT
It's killing our mind.. in my company they decided to deploy some kind of internet monitoring software (www.workexaminer.com)
Goverment Monitoring
by tremorfireheart April 23, 2008 12:55 PM PDT
this law being push through seems to be another way for the Goverment to make up for the loss in the FISA Ammendment granting immunity to telecom companies for assisting in potentialy unlawful surveilance. This would be a potential way to still monitor at least the voip services that abound on the net. On top of that granting the ability to sniff through or emails and the like. In a number of ways this could provide the means to be even more intrusive then the Fisa amendment. Particularly with a loose definition such as illegal activity.
Investigating Money laundering could be plausible enough excuse to see all bank transfers and payments you do over the net. If I have a subscription to some sexually oriented or politicaly oriented online service, I do not care to have anyone else know about it much less the goverment. I realize that much on the internet is free to find and grab information from, but there are somethings that you want to keep between you and those close to you. Buisiness deals, hot tips on the stock market, and ideologically sensitive comments should sometimes be held close to the chest.

There is still some anomity on the net. Where we can view and vent some of our true feelings with out fear of back lash or social constraints. Lets keep those simpletons who simply flame, those who troll, and those who speak things to just get a rise out of people under the mask of anomity. it's good stress relief and it just might make you think.
Reply to this comment
by darfly1 March 22, 2009 4:36 PM PDT
i hope something is done about this. i am having some serious problems with people telling me that i have inherited money and find out that it is not true.
Disconcerting
by c|net Reader April 23, 2008 1:00 PM PDT
I like the idea of the FBI looking out for my interests in fighting those who try to steal identities, and so on. I don't like the idea of them scanning all Internet traffic they can get their hands on. Obviously, access to Internet traffic is already available to those companies with access to the main pipes, and all of my traffic is available to my ISP, but I'm less comfortable with the idea of the U.S. Government getting into the fray. Certainly some foreign governments, such as China's, already monitor what happens within their purview.

Considered in the light of so much existing monitoring, this is hardly new ground, so maybe I'm being too sensitive.
Reply to this comment
big brother
by befuddledms April 23, 2008 1:07 PM PDT
"the bureau should have a broad "omnibus" authority to conduct monitoring and surveillance of private-sector networks as well."

It already exists. It's called a F****ing Court Order.

So much for the the 4th amendment.
Reply to this comment
FBI wants widespread monitoring of 'illegal' Internet activity
by RLKrygowski April 23, 2008 1:46 PM PDT
We seem to be taking steps in the direction of fewer freedom and more government oversight and snooping into our lives. When does it end? Why shouldn't our government have to get a warrant to justify their actions like any other state or local authority. Outrageous.
Reply to this comment
Cryptography
by Mam00th April 23, 2008 1:48 PM PDT
Suddenly, cryptography and proxy just gained in popularity...
Reply to this comment
We are so, so going down the toilet
by cpeterka April 23, 2008 1:49 PM PDT
In order to watch for Illegal Activity, they will have to scan ALL Activity.
and with most phones going VOIP, they'll listen to all the phone calls, too.

I guess I'll have to arrainge my little extra curricular activites with flags and semiphone.

P.S. Nancy, meet me at the Days Inn outside of town.
Reply to this comment
hehehe...
by jessiethe3rd April 23, 2008 2:12 PM PDT
And you really thought this WASN'T going to happen?! Com'on now...
Reply to this comment
GeorgeOrwell
by oldguytoo April 23, 2008 2:20 PM PDT
1984 Big Brother and all is the new reality.

It'll be easier to build a fence around the country, pull all our troops home and end trade - become self sufficient!
Reply to this comment
terrible just terrible
by incrediblehelp April 23, 2008 2:36 PM PDT
I cant believe this is going to be allowed, where are our privacy rights? Between this and the fact those Comcast scum are trying to tax the internet it is becoming a sad state of affairs.
Reply to this comment
This is so wrong!
by chad633 April 23, 2008 3:11 PM PDT
If the government wants to monitor their computers, fine! But the government has no business monitoring everything the world does on the internet. We keep giving up our rights in the name of security. What's next bar codes being tattooed on the back of our necks? Chips implanted in us? Our government should fear the people! instead of the people fearing the government! This is so wrong and it makes me want to vomit.
Reply to this comment
This so wrong
by L L Hatfield April 23, 2008 3:29 PM PDT
Wait until a another 9/11 the FBI will not ask, they will be given the power. Any one who complains will be branded a trader.
View reply
by D3vildog699 December 28, 2008 2:59 PM PST
Remember, Remember the fifth of November..
It's Now Time...
by rapope--2008 April 23, 2008 3:40 PM PDT
It's now time to use PGP for even routine email traffic. Let's see them waste a lot of time ... on nothing!
Reply to this comment
Ohh, that would be bad
by pmfjoe April 23, 2008 5:21 PM PDT
I propose a law banning encrypted communication or any encrypted communication where a FBI back door key cannot be used by the filtering software to easily scan it's contents. lol, I am sure that is comming.
View reply
So what's the deal?
by Imalittleteapot April 23, 2008 3:54 PM PDT
So what's the deal? Are the American people willing to stand up and fight for their rights yet? Perhaps this still isn't bad enough. Still tied to your wide screen? I understand. I know how it is.
Reply to this comment
Herr Mueller
by jemay April 23, 2008 3:58 PM PDT
Herr A. H. Mueller will just start the fourth Reich here in America, with his new power. If you thought j.H. Hover was powerful wait a few years. Of course by that time anybody that disagrees will, have been found guilty of some Federal crime and be in prison.
Like they don't make evidence just apear or disapear as the case may require. Prove you didn't send that email. HA Ha.
Reply to this comment
Just what we need
by trekgraham78 April 23, 2008 4:06 PM PDT
Government already monitors phone calls, why can't they focus on terrorism and violent crime?

How much are the companies paying the goverment to crack down on copyright violations? I mean come on, cost of gas is insane, my bills keep going up, my income remains about the same and they expect us to afford to goto movies and go out? I just heard that airlines are going to increase fares as much as triple current rates to cover their costs. I guess I will be taking the train unless i take a trip out of the country. I have friends thinking about moving to Europe, England or Germany are their top choices. Funny England was the reason for the USA and now for some it is the solution to the problems in the US
Reply to this comment
Take action!
by james_blish747 April 24, 2008 8:50 AM PDT
Do you think things are bad now? Dude, you had better wake-up! The next ten years will make this current situation seem tame. I predict 10 years or the next terrorist event here, whichever comes first. If you want more freedom, you won't find it here. There are several other non-european countries that will make an ideal escape. Get your second citizenship and passport NOW. Don't share the information with family, friends or the governement. I predict this US Government will restrict everyone's ability to do this once it becomes popular. Only YOU can protect you. Don't be a sheep and hope everything will get better.
U S S R - 2.0
by My-Self April 23, 2008 5:01 PM PDT
Welcome to the new, cathcy, 2.0 version of the Soviet Union, and the best part : You don't even need to travel to get there !
Reply to this comment
crazy - for many reasons
by amigoaz99 April 23, 2008 6:00 PM PDT
for many reasons, the FBI was not setup to be big brother. They can't be trusted to keep out of everyone's business - this has been proven many times as "leaks" or unauthorized data retrievals have occurred.

Just as the FBI does not have permission to monitor every phone call, they should not have access to every piece of data on the internet.

a clear violation of constitutional rights - but the question is if congress and supreme court will uphold them..

In general, it will just mean better encryption for those that need it, so they won't be looking at YOUR data unless they spend time decoding it.

Bottom line is that the FBI will only catch those who don't protect themselves..
Reply to this comment
Prove It
by Charlief1 April 23, 2008 8:37 PM PDT
If the FBI wants to do something to curb illegal activities, let them start with SPAM. Once they've made a dent in that, they've proven themselves capable of taking on other IT issues, and Congress can revisit the issue. Until then, NO WAY should we give J. Edgar's boys that much control over our lives.
Reply to this comment
The Government's Fault? Hardly!
by loserguy3000 April 23, 2008 8:57 PM PDT
Pa-shaw! The last thing we need to hear are people whining about the evils of the government and how its all confirmation of the great Orwellian prophecy. For all the senseless talk of moving to Europe and Canada to escape the upcoming fascism - adios... I imagine after you experience true civil violations, you'll be glad you kept that round-trip ticket.

For all this talk of government-sponsored databases and ID cards and tracking, why would they bother? The average citizen has already (and gleefully so) given themselves over to the grid. Why does government need to make a database to keep tabs when:

* millions have already identified themselves via MySpace, FaceBook, YouTube, and hundreds others. We know everything about you, your favorite colors, who you associate with, even what you're listening to and what you love to buy.

* millions have GPS-enabled cellphones and automobiles, all DESIGNED to track movements and help others keep in touch with them whenever and where ever they are.

* need to keep track of neighbors? how about instant communication via cellphone messaging, internet boards, community listings, hell even sex offender tracking. its easier than ordering a pizza!

...and its not getting any better! Every day, new trash-people post dozens of criminally minded videos to any number of video websites. Need white-trash girls beating the heck out of each other? Preteens threatening the president? Babies getting high? Check...all through easily trackable, easy-to-post videos. Thank you, America!

Frankly, I'm not concerned about the government poking its nose in on me because I'm NOT DOING ANYTHING wrong. Considering this is Cnet, I'd assume that most users are familiar with at least one crime-breaking piece of software and regularly partake from the well of 'free software/music/film' known as bittorent or something similar. How's that working out for ya?

Although I'd rather not have my privacy violated, every single time I hear about kids exploited in kiddy porn or innocents violated and posted online (not to mention 99% of every single talkback ever posted degenerating into childish babble), I can't help but think that something needs to be done. If you don't agree, then I must say you're made of sterner stuff.
Reply to this comment
Interesting
by jessiethe3rd April 23, 2008 10:08 PM PDT
You bring up some fantastic points. Are you cozy behind your computer or do you feel scared that someone is going to come and bite you? Honestly, who is stupid enough to give up a bit more freedom to gain a bit more perceived safety?
Letting them poke in freely....
by mr3vil April 24, 2008 1:59 AM PDT
makes it easier for them to make it look like you've done something wrong.

Your attitude does not belong in the land of the free. It belongs in North Korea or the old USSR. Your safety is not my problem and sure isn't worth my freedom. I wouldn't die to make a complete stranger safe, but I would die to make sure they were free.

The soldiers we've lost in Iraq and Afghanistan didn't sign up to make you feel safe loserguy, they died to preserve yours, my, everyone's freedom.

Hitler kept his people safe, so long as they weren't "doing anything wrong" and by that I mean, not being a Jew or Gypsy, or being a dissenter.
You only think your not doing anything wrong...
by chash360 April 24, 2008 2:36 PM PDT
It will not be up to you to decide if what you are doing is wrong, it will be the government, and stupid people crying foul whenever the world does not meet their expectations.

When they decide to bust down your door and haul you away, all because of some electrons on a wire, and some bits of magnetic material is all the evidence they need to confiscate everything you own. How can you think this power would not be abused?

You may be a loser enough to never gain their attention, but people fighting for freedom and justice against the rich, greedy, powerful, and corrupt, will suffer gross injustices, when all they have to do is create the electronic evidence to convict you.

If they decide that you breathing free air is wrong, will you go quietly? Why not just go now? I'll send you the handcuffs, and evidence to convict you in my next E-Mail....

I have a friend with no priors that had to go through diversion and drug treatment classes, had her licence suspended and car impounded, and now has a felony misdemeanor on her record, why? becasue a cop pulled her over and searched her car (she gave consent, thinking she had done nothing wrong), and the officer found a single dirty pill on the floorboard that was someone's (prior passengers) prescirption drug that they had dropped. The police officers actions are supported completely by law, but not a shread of common sense, or decency, and entirely motivated by greed, lots of bonuses paid for drug and DUII collars. You would think a decent judge would throw it out, but that would mean no money in fines either, and they had already gone to so much effort.....better get paid.

If everyone was as good and law abiding as you think you are, then we would not have so many prisons filled to capacity with so many non-violent, and 'victimless' crimes.
View reply
Well, this proves
by suyts April 24, 2008 9:54 PM PDT
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly
inadequate to the government of any other.
Adams, John
by D3vildog699 December 28, 2008 2:55 PM PST
Go ahead and be the sheep, I make my own choices in life, if the government decides they want to go this route, i will be happy to leave.

Thats coming from a Former Marine.

Im all for protection, but what you suggest is absurd.
by rondnielsen December 30, 2009 1:04 AM PST
This whole mess reminds me of the health care bill that being jammed down rears. More control, more goverment. You know the goverment runs the DMV, can you imagine going to the DMV for a flu shot? Better take the day off.

We have way too many americans out there that want to be taken care of by someone else or the goverment. Or, the "why bother" crowd. Why don't protect yourself from things you don't want to see instead of making the rest of us pay for it via bigger taxes/goverment.

And being your NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG you wouldn't mind if one of us wanted to track you every move, where you go, where/who you spend time with, ect, heck we should just come over and stay the night and get every detail. Doesn't sound good? I understand if not; but it's cool if it someone from the goverment does, hu?

All your explaining/examples of Mypace, GPS, ect is not even in the ball park to what we're saying here; none of that is FORCED upon us, it's all choice.
Government is where all corruption and illegal activity begins...
by assclownbush April 24, 2008 12:44 AM PDT
Fighting all the evils ruining America begins at the government level. I'm not talking legislation, I am talking about all the corrupt govt officials and employees who abuse their power.
Reply to this comment
But how?
by Imalittleteapot April 24, 2008 2:41 AM PDT
But how do we do that? When do we all get together to do that? I think the first thing is to learn you have to work with people you don't agree on everything with first to make some progress on the things you do. Nobody wants to work together because everyone is so divided. Where to go from there?
View reply
Showing 1 of 2 pages (55 Comments)
advertisement

Is Apple launching a patent war?

Apple's lawsuit against handset maker HTC could be just the beginning as the company mans the barricades in the smartphone market.

Feds weigh expansion of Internet monitoring

Homeland Security's top cybersecurity official tells CNET that the Einstein network defense system, which exchanges data with the NSA, could be extended to the private sector.

About News Blog

Recent posts on technology, trends, and more.

Add this feed to your online news reader

advertisement
advertisement

Inside CNET News

Scroll Left Scroll Right