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Additional Analysis of Ladies Short Program

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There really isn't too much to add, but just a few things to say:

Ok, so it's still unlikely that the American Ladies will medal

And if they don't, it will be the first time in more than 40 years that that happens.  But being behind the powerhouse quadruplet of Kim, Asada, Rochette, and Ando (and in Ando's case, just behind her) is really not too shabby.  Neither American lady had a perfect performance, and we should be happy with those standings. They also skated their adorable hearts out and gave the crowd something to cheer for.  BUT.  I think it was a bit low to score Flatt under a 7 for her choreography for that program. It was a great, fun program and it appeard difficult and had cool footwork.  Nagasu also obviously has a ways to go in the judges eyes before she is thought of as artistically on par with the top four ladies, which, when you're comparing Ando with Nagasu, is kind of odd.  But I actually think Ando's short is better than her free skate artistically, so maybe their components won't look as different for the free.

Explain spirals to me

I've read the judging technical rules, so I understand how spirals levels work.  But grade of execution points are supposed to be about how well you actually...execute.  So how does Yu-na Kim received a +2 for her spiral grade of execution, with arabesque spirals that are shaky and do appear to show the flexibility that some of the other ladies' spirals do?  I don't have complaints on the catch foot.  This has been my major issue with judging for Kim all year.  Her arabesque appears mediocre...I would argue that she doesn't do as well there as Asada or Nagasu, and Asada received the same GOE while Nagasu received much lower.  But I am no ballerina, so if someone can answer this, and maybe explain why Kim scores so high there, I would love to hear it.  And I know the other spiral positions Kim hits are better than the arabesque.  Other than that, I have no problem with Kim's scores.  Spirals or not, I would have had her a few points ahead of Asada.

UPDATED:  Spurred on by my helpful commenter, I have decided not to be lazy and have linked to the Go Figure Skating site, which explains the GOE better than I can.  Here is what it says:

To establish the starting GOE Judges must take into consideration the bullets for each element. It’s up to a

Judge to decide on the number of bullets for any upgrade, but general recommendations are as follows:

  • +1 - Skater achieves 1 - 2 bullets
  • +2 - Skater achieves 3 - 4 bullets
  • +3 - Skater achieves 5 - 6 bullets

And for spirals:

  • Good flow, energy and execution
  • Good speed during sequence
  • Good body line
  • Highlights the character of the program
  • Superior flexibility
  • Creativity and originality

Going off of what the judging system says, I still don't understand the +2 for Kim.  I will also reiterate that that would not have changed her standing and I still think Kim is amazing and deserves to be in first place by a few points.

It was nice to see Cheltzie Lee and Tugba Karademir

But why no love for Russia's Alena Leonova?  She can be such a joy to watch and she sits only about a point behind Mirai Nagasu.  I would have loved to have seen her in the NBC telecast last night.

Also, NBC.  The formula with ladies skating is always "MORE Dick Button."  Not less.

It doesn't matter how far apart the scores on the board are

After the men's competition, the top three were separated by less than a point, and we knew the free skate would be exciting.  Here, Kim has a fairly commanding lead and she will likely win tomorrow if she's clean, (no matter whether Asada does two triple axels).  But that doesn't really tell the story of those performances and the competitive fires we saw last night.  If anyone has been following Mao Asada this season and has seen the disastrous short programs she has put up...it must have been such a personal victory for her last night.  And aside from that, it was one of the best performed ladies' short programs of the Olympics!  And she did a clean triple axel (I hope some of the men were watching and taking notes).  And Yu-na Kim, who battles nerves and the expectations of millions of people, comes right after Asada and puts down the best short program ever - my god.  If anyone insults skating today I am going to have less patience than usual.

As far the competition goes, I'm hoping that even though the first and third places are so far apart and third and fourth are so far apart, we'll still see amazing skating tomorrow night, just like we did on Tuesday.  I think last night was a great showcase for ladies skating.

And Joannie Rochette is in a class by herself

Joannie Rochette has also battled through a bad season with a lot of short program falls and disasters.  So her amazing performance and clean performance of that program last night would have been something to talk about no matter what.  But this woman came out and skated her heart out just two days after her mother unexpectedly died from a heart attack.  I am tearing up just thinking of the bravery of Rochette and the emotions that skate must have held for her and her father in the stands.  I can't imagine anyone was not being moved by Rochette last night.  Not a dry eye.  And back to the competition side - she is rightfully in contention for a medal here, although what she did last night transcends medals.

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The one think I disagree with you on is More Dick Button. I’m sick of him comparing people to little dolls. I’d rather hear Scott talk about how they don’t know how hard skating is, and I hate that! I too missed Alena Leonova, she’s fantastic and it would have been great to see her. More so than Kostner and Sebastien in my opinion. I also am a bit surprised at how high Kim Yu-Na is in comparison to Mao. One of the biggest reasons is I don’t think Mao sells her jumps as well. Her landings are clean but she doesn’t have a ton of extension in her free leg or as much knee bend as Kim Yu-Na does. Even so, the scores seemed high. So proud of the US ladies. If they stay in their respective spots or mode down one place we get 3 skaters next year at worlds, right? I think the rule is if your top two scores add to 13 or less?

Can I just say I love your posts and am sad I didn’t know about them sooner.

by Natalie Daniels on Feb 24, 2010 10:56 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yu-na's speed

For spirals you get +1 GOE for each of the following:
1. Good flow, energy and execution
2. Good speed during sequence
3. Good body line
4. Highlights the character of the program
5. Superior flexibility
6. Creativity and originality

Yu-na spirals would probably score on #1, 2 and maybe 4.

by urigio on Feb 24, 2010 11:20 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

thanks for that list

It’s very helpful!

I would probably not have given her a 1 for #1 because of the slight shakiness at the beginning…and #3 is questionable because of that arabesque position. But I think overall she still deserved like…1. Just not 2, maybe.

--
Laura
RequiredElements.com

by LauraS on Feb 24, 2010 11:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I cried so much throughout Joannie’s skate. I really don’t understand how she pulled herself together. I would have been a mess. I called my mom afterwards.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥

by ClemsonGirl on Feb 24, 2010 11:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Kim's spiral

I’m a dancer, and I can promise you that she definitely did not have a good body line or superior flexibility in that spiral. There was also nothing terribly creative or original about it, compared with the other ladies either. Looking at the criteria above, Mao ABSOLUTELY should have gained a higher GOE than her.

by evilapprentice on Feb 24, 2010 11:58 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I for one encourage more Dick Button

We need honest, straight forward analysis. Although Scott wasn’t doing that bad of a job last night as they slow-mo’ed all the jumps to check for rotation.

As for Kim’s spiral, I thought it wasn’t done as well as Mirai’s, but oh well. Judges still get blinded by performance and name, even in the current code of points.

Joanie’s skate was just amazing. When she started crying after she finished, I don’t know how I barely kept it together.

by freesia39 on Feb 24, 2010 12:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i think it's just yeon-a's arabesque

that is not particularly strong – leg up not that high and a little bent – the “forward” spiral (or the move where her leg is up in the front) is very very good. so maybe that’s what the judges were accounting for?

and i agree with the dick button love. he may say some wacko things (which can make him even more awesome, depending) but he can get to the heart of skating critique. i remember the days of m kwan and beforehand when he would really get into technical detail of jumps and such, even more than SH does sometimes.

by Susan Shin on Feb 24, 2010 1:19 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Great post. I agree about Dick Button – he brings such life to the analysis, and he really appreciates artistry on the ice, and knows how to communicate that. I love his commentary. I also think Joannie Rochette was amazing – a beautiful, emotional, strong performance, I was tearing up… so wonderful that she had such bravery and commitment, it was just wonderful to see and experience that.

by VelmaKelly on Feb 24, 2010 3:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I love Kim Yu- Na but

I agree, I’m surprised she was given such high GOE marks…I always thought her spiral looked a little stiff. In all honesty, I am rooting for her to win because I think it would be devastating to many people if she didn’t (South Korea, her coach, herself…)

I absolutely loved Flatt and Nagasu’s performances yesterday! I think Rachel performed her heart out and Mirai’s spins, spirals were breathtaking. I really think the judges are not giving her enough credit!

Finally, I feel sorry for Miki Ando and think she should get a new coach. Artistry can be taught, and if Yu-Na could get over her shyness, I’m sure Ando can get over her awkwardness. I actually really liked her short program at the Torino games, and wonder what has happened to her natural artistry?

by funshine on Feb 24, 2010 4:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

About Spirals

Hi, I’m a dancer and will try to dissect Yu -Na and Mao’s scores re: spirals and spins. Yu-na had excellent speed, which might have earned a couple of points. Mao had better flow, better body line and flexibility. Of the two, I would have given higher component marks to Mao. I also think that Mirai’s spins and spirals are in the same league with either. While she may not be as polished overall, her total score should have been higher, IMO. I would love to see more explanation of how these moves are judged to help viewers better understand the scoring system.

On a related note, I, too love Dick Button. He was always a master at explaining both jumps and spirals and spins.

by Sheri Leblanc on Feb 24, 2010 5:45 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Have you seen this?

I’m new to the board. Appreciating the commentary and comments.

There is a CTV video of Joannie Rochette’s skate at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQYoyKBR9bM&feature=channel

The CTV station can’t be viewed by those in the US but maybe you can view this skate on YouTube.

I point this out because CTV uses a different camera angle than NBC. It shows her skating in a different light. When you see it on NBC she looks slower (so did V/M) but on the CTV station she looks fast and great going into her jumps. It also shows how the judges see her skate. Hope you can view it.

Also, did you know that you can view the entire judging elements and compare different skaters by going to www.vancouver 2010.com? It’s facinating to compare the top two skaters and how the judges scored. You can also follow the skaters as they skate live – it’s updated automatically with each skater.

Thought you’d like to know these tidbits.

by kpaige on Feb 25, 2010 3:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs


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