Filco in the USA

[majestouch]

Greetings All,

Didn't even know this forum existed 2 years ago when I registered majestouch.com. At the time I didn't think anyone outside of Japan really knew of Diatec, and I was just entertaining the thought of importing FILCO Majestouch boards to the USA. Alas, life got in the way and I was skeptical anyone in the US would shell out the money to make it worth my while to market it, but now that the domain was about to expire I Googled "Filco" just one more time...and to my surprise...

So here is what I'm going to do.

I have contacted Diatec in the past and it is all about quantity. I am prepared to import a large number of 1 or more models if I can find enough interest in the US.

Models I assume the most interest in:

Majestouch Wireless series
FKBT104M/EB
FKBT104ML/EB

Majestouch N-key rollover series
FKBN104M/EB
FKBN104ML/EB

Majestouch Linear series
FKB104ML/EB

Majestouch series
FKB104M/EB
FKB104M/EW

Majestouch Tenkeyless ASCII
FKBN87M/EB
FKBN87ML/EB

Personally, I think the linear switches are for people with carbon fiber prosthetic fingers, but that's just me;)

Let me have your votes and I'll tally them up in 2 or 3 days time and I'll post what I can do. I'm not making a standard poll because this isn't a popularity contest; click-happy index fingers don't help the bottom line. I'm looking for real numbers. So please respond to this thread.

For the wired boards, it looks like a sweet spot would be somewhere South of $130USD for the FKB104M/EB, and this is very possible if we can get some interest. Wireless boards will of course be a bit higher. The new red boards like the FKB104M/EBR will probably not be on everyone's list, but if you really want something not listed here (see www.diatec.co.jp), it can be had sans bulk pricing + a stipend for my time. PM me. All boards will be shipped from the USA.

Please alert anyone on other forums to come cast their vote as well; the more the better.

[Viett]

I would definitely be interested in an FKBN104M/EB or a blue cherry variation (which does not yet exist).

[itlnstln]

I would be intersted in one of these:

FKBN104M/EB
FKBN104ML/EB

[bhtooefr]

I'm personally not interested, but if you can get an FKBN104MC/EB (that model doesn't exist, but it's what would be the model number of a N-key rollover, blue Cherry 104-key model) in under $130, you just undercut the Das Keyboard, and totally beat it at its own game.

With a higher quality product that doesn't have the fingerprint-attracting glossy surface.

[itlnstln]

With a higher quality product that doesn't have the fingerprint-attracting glossy surface.

Well, the keys will become glossy with enough use. :( That's the only complaint I have with my ABS. I saw a picture of someone else's Filco in the "Keyboard pics" thread, and it appeared to have the same problem my ABS has of the coating wearing off of the keys.

[bhtooefr]

Of course, you might try to get yourself into retail stores, too.

And, be sure to send review units out.

I'll note that bluetooth is going to be a bigger selling point than N-key rollover. But, take a look at the price premium for N-key - if it's not much, there's not much reason to carry the NON N-key boards. (Although, the bluetooth boards aren't N-key.)

Here's a lineup I see making sense:

Bluetooth
FKBT104M/EB
FKBT104ML/EB
FKBT104MC/EB (doesn't exist)

Regular
FKBN104M/EB
FKBN104ML/EB
FKBN104MC/EB (doesn't exist)

Tenkeyless
FKBN87M/EB
FKBN87ML/EB
FKBN87MC/EB

Although, it really depends on how you want to go with this - the brown cherries may be too light for some people, and (I've not typed on them, so I'm just guessing here) the blacks may not interest people.

[itlnstln]

the brown cherries may be too light for some people,

Brown Cherrys with a little more resistance and more pronounced tactility. Mmm...

Wait, that's an Alps black. ;)

[bhtooefr]

Except the Alps black's noise and tactility is unrelated to the electrical contact. ;)

Browns with a little more resistance (IIRC, springs out of a black) = clears.

[itlnstln]

Browns with a little more resistance (IIRC, springs out of a black) = clears.

Touche. I forget about the clears a lot since there doesn't seem to be many keybaords made with them (at least from what I have seen). I would love to have a Filco with Cherry clears (maybe without quite as much force as the blacks). Alps blacks do not have any noise except for the keys bottoming out, but pretty much all switches have that to varying degrees (mostly due to case/key materials). The tactility, though, has about as much to do with electrical contact as the Cherrys. ;)

[bhtooefr]

It's not quite at the same PLACE on the Cherries, but IIRC, the tactility does directly cause the electrical contact.

Compare to the Alps, which just has the click leaf bent so that it happens at the same time.

[itlnstln]

On the Cherrys, the slider that activates the switch is differently shaped between the switch types which causes the tactility. It's participation, then, is a little more active than the Alps, but since the slider can be shaped from tactile to linear, the shape really doesn't play much of a direct part in activating the switch. Not like, say, a buckling spring does.

[bhtooefr]

According to this, the Cherry MX blue (at the VERY least) has a direct connection between the tactile event and the key actuation. Even though the key actuation is SLIGHTLY after the tactile event, it's still directly interrelated, the same part of the switch: http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/cherry_mx_click.swf

And, if you look at this page (http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_cherry_mx.htm), you can see why the MX black and brown work the way they do.

But, yeah, the buckling spring is a more elegant, simpler method that offers the most direct tactile and audible feedback possible. (Probably *SLIGHTLY* better than Fujitsu Peerless, although Peerless would be very, very close. Not that Peerless is any good, of course...)

[ozar]

I'd be interested in one of the tenkeyless models.

[kyamei]

I'd be interested in a FKBN87MC/EB (though the 104key model that doesn't exist would be preferable).

[cchan]

I'd be interested in a tenkeyless blue cherry model, NKRO doesn't matter. Depending on price though.

[bhtooefr]

IIRC, all the Tenkeyless (at least Cherry) boards are NKRO. :)

[Eclairz]

In my opinion if Filco just released a Tenkeyless with bluetooth that would be the road warriors favourite and also mine.

But since they don't sell them i'd probably get any tenkeyless preferably with cherry clears as that and the reds are the only ones i have yet to try. Although realistically I think browns/blues will be the most popular.

[rio]

FKBT104M/EB
FKBN104M/EB

One each.

[FKSSR]

I may be in the market for a tenkeyless Filco with blue cherries or brown cherries, depending on if I can get a Steelseries 6G soon.

So, I can't commit to anything now, but may be "in the market" soon.

[FKSSR]

IIRC, all the Tenkeyless (at least Cherry) boards are NKRO. :)

Sorry, but what does NKRO mean?

[Chloe]

NKRO = N-key rollover.

[itlnstln]

NKRO = National Kosher Rabbi Organization

[FKSSR]

Both of those make so much sense. I have always wanted a Kosher keyboard...

[FKSSR]

I want a FKBN87M/EB.

I decided to get that instead of a 6G, so I will want to buy it pretty soon.

What kind of time line are you looking at? If it is very long, I may just buy one from the Taiwan site that hotswank listed in this forum.

Thanks!

[majestouch]

I want to thank everyone for their feedback and opinions. I see a reasonable amount of interest here and on other forums for these keyboards, so I'll be having a meeting with Diatec on Monday.

The keyboard models that seem to have the most interest are:

FKBT104M/EB - 104 key English layout, Brown Cherry switches and Bluetooth
FKBN104M/EB - 104 key English layout, Brown Cherry switches, NKRO, and USB/PS2
FKBN87M/EB - 87 key (tenkeyless) English layout, Brown Cherry switches, NKRO, and USB/PS2

So I'll be buying a number of these for the first order. I really don't see much preference for the "ML" boards with the Black Cherries (Linear pressure switches), but if you'd strongly prefer one then please reply to this post over the weekend and I'll see if I can slip a few into the mix. However, as a word of advice, if you have not touched Black Cherries before and you do not already have calloused fingers of considerable strength, then I highly recommend you go for the Browns; particularly if you type for hours on end.

I see a lot of interest in boards with Blue Cherry switches, so I'll be sure to ask Diatec what options and future plans they have.

As long as everything goes well I'll place an order and I'll update this thread on Monday the 9th with pricing and payment options (most likely paypal, though I'm open to other options). The keyboards should arrive at my place, in California, by the end of the week. The soonest I would be able to ship things out would be on the 16th (yes, of March).

[iMav]

The keyboard models that seem to have the most interest are:

FKBT104M/EB - 104 key English layout, Brown Cherry switches and Bluetooth
FKBN104M/EB - 104 key English layout, Brown Cherry switches, NKRO, and USB/PS2
FKBN87M/EB - 87 key (tenkeyless) English layout, Brown Cherry switches, NKRO, and USB/PS2
You are missing the cream of the crop! The FKBN87MC/EB !!! (blue Cherry-equipped tenkeyless)

This is my 'board of choice and I would love to have a few spares.

[Repoman]

I think you best take care of that blue cherry tenkeyless iMav!

I asked J-Goods for a quote on one recently only to be told that it was a limited edition that had now sold out and there were currently no plans to do another production run.

I'd spent so long trying making my decision that I practically tore my hair out when I realised I was too late...

So I ended up buying the Filco mini with the 'Zero' fake white alps, which is a fantastic keyboard, but it was the blue cherry I wanted :(

I may have to cheer myself up with a HHKBpro2...

[lam47]

A blue tenkeyless for me!

[iMav]

I think you best take care of that blue cherry tenkeyless iMav!

I asked J-Goods for a quote on one recently only to be told that it was a limited edition that had now sold out and there were currently no plans to do another production run.
Interesting.

[ozar]

I think you best take care of that blue cherry tenkeyless iMav!

I asked J-Goods for a quote on one recently only to be told that it was a limited edition that had now sold out and there were currently no plans to do another production run.
What a bummer... I really wanted one of those. It sounds like iMav's board just went up in value.

[Biggs]

http://www.w3bdevil.com/forums/No-Darth_Vader.jpg

[FKSSR]

As long as everything goes well I'll place an order and I'll update this thread on Monday the 9th with pricing and payment options (most likely paypal, though I'm open to other options). The keyboards should arrive at my place, in California, by the end of the week. The soonest I would be able to ship things out would be on the 16th (yes, of March).

Awesome! Definitely let us know when you are able to make the order!

[Repoman]

I'd love to be proved wrong about this, trust me.

Any chance Majestouch could confirm this if he actually is meeting with Diatec?

[adamrice]

I'd be interested in the FKBN104M/EB (104-key brown stem USB). I could maybe be convinced to get the Bluetooth alternative, although it's not clear what kind of switch it has.

Looking at the Japanese side of Diatec's website, it looks like they do have a couple of blue-stem keyboards, but only with Japanese layouts. They don't list them on the English side. Apparently one is sold out and the other (http://www.diatec.co.jp/products/det.php?prod_c=509) is only available by mail-order (the only difference between them is the printing on the keys: EN+JA vs EN only).

[majestouch]

I'm still waiting for a quote, I'll give you folks an update soon.

For those of you asking about ASCII layout "MC" series boards (104 and 87 key) with Blue Cherries, I may have some good news for you. Stay tuned.


Note to adamrice, the board you linked has a Japanese 108 key layout which is subtly different from the ASCII 104 key layout; letter keys remain in the same place, but punctuation marks are moved around a bit and "kana" keys are added (making the space bar shorter) for switching between different input methods. Also the Enter key is larger and the backspace key is smaller; I believe this configuration is a legacy from the first personal computer keyboards from the likes of NEC. In any case, I don't recommend it if you're born and raised on ASCII boards.

[Mur]

First time posting but long time following :) I am not sure if it is too late or not but the FKBN104M/EB, and FKBN104ML/EB models seem wonderful. The mythical blue cherry variant is quite interesting too. Cheers.

[Repoman]

Dunno about mythical...


Isn't this the tenkey version here? (http://www.filco.com.tw/product.php?page_id=23&product_id=7)

[webwit]

It looks like the Cherry Blue tenkeyless one with Chinese (?) on the keycaps!

[Repoman]

I thought this one (http://www.filco.com.tw/product.php?page_id=23&product_id=14) was the Chinese tenkeyless

[webwit]

It is, it wasn't a direct link. For sale here?
http://armygroup.com.tw/myshop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=123&products_id=2340
Hmm, no, Browns again.

[adamrice]

webwit--that's bopomofo, a simple phonetic character set used in Taiwan as a learning aid, and as you see here, as an input method for typing Chinese.

[FKSSR]

Any news here? Did you ever get a quote?

[lam47]

I would still be in for a blue tenkeyless. Perhaps a brown as well if the price is right :)

[majestouch]

I apologize for the delay. I am in the process of securing the sole distributorship of Filco keyboards in the US, but I have received some pricing and I'll give you some numbers here as well as the latest news.

I can't give an exact number yet on these because it is very difficult to know what US customs will charge in every case outside of normal duties, but it will be in these ranges.

RETAIL Pricing:

FKB104M/EB (and ML version) will be $100-105, pre-shipping.
FKBN104M/EB (and ML version) will be $125-130, pre-shipping.
FKBN87M/EB (and ML version) will be priced at $110-115, pre-shipping.

Shipping will be from California; Fedex or UPS. Also, (important) I will offer a standard warranty and support for these boards here in the US.

Some bad news:

The current bluetooth model FKB104MT/EB has been discontinued; however, a new model may be in the works. When it is available I will offer it.

And some GOOD news:

Right now I'm awaiting a quote on N-key rollover boards with blue switches. (This is delaying everything, sorry about it.)

So, in summary, once I receive the blue switch quote (hopefully in the next couple days) then I will be able to make the first order. Thanks again for all your feedback.

[lam47]

Cool. Looking forward to hearing about the blues!

[FKSSR]

Awesome! I'm still ready for a FKBN87M/EB. :)

[rio]

This is fantastic. Thank you!

[Viett]

Looking forward to a Filco with Cherry Blues ;).

[bigfresh]

i would kill for a FKBN87MC/EB cherry blue 87--i could use 2 of them ideally. i have torn apart the internet looking for this keyboard with no luck. you are my one beacon of hope....

...unless anyone else knows of a another tenless cherry blue keyboard out there other than this one
http://www.notestation.com/kb-modmac-umodularmackeyboard.htm

[Repoman]

Fantastic news - very happy to be proved wrong on that one.

Please tell me you don't have a problem with the idea of shipping to the UK...

I don't think I could stand the disappointment!

[josh19147]

Majestouch---are you going to have the FKBN87MC/EB model? I need a mini keyboard with the blues cherries!

[lam47]

This has been asked. Repeatedly! Its what a lot of us want. You will just need to be patient and read the posts.
Fingers crossed they will be available.

[CrapTypist]

Just to chime in, I'm interested in a cherry blue-based Tenkeyless. (ascii)

Sign me up!

[Biggs]

So, in summary, once I receive the blue switch quote (hopefully in the next couple days) then I will be able to make the first order. Thanks again for all your feedback.

It's been "a couple of days" already, any news? :mrgreen:

[majestouch]

Well, I've placed an order for the following:

FKB104M/EB - Cherry MX Brown switches 104key ASCII Layout
FKBN104M/EB - Cherry MX Brown switches 104key ASCII Layout N-key Rollover
FKBN87M/EB - Cherry MX Brown switches 87key ASCII Layout N-key Rollover

The order will arrive here next week (Tues. or Wed.) granted they don't fall into the Pacific en route. I will be able to start shipping on Thursday or Friday.

Pricing will be as follows:
FKB104M/EB - $104.00
FKBN104M/EB - $129.00
FKBN87M/EB - $115.00

Stock is limited, so first come first serve. Second come will have to wait a few days longer for a second shipment. Shipping to US locales will be a flat average rate or a "zoned" rate, I haven't decided yet, but I don't intend to be the kind of business to screw customers on shipping/packing costs.

It turns out I will not be able to use majestouch.com for sales purposes as it is trademarked by Diatec. So I have registered a new domain and I'll post the domain name here as soon as the site is up. Initially I will accept payment through Paypal, or if you want to trust me, personal or company check. I could just wing it and accept Paypal directly, however, I would like to have a palatable homepage with descriptions of the products and warranty terms for your reference as any respectable business should provide.

And finally, regarding the Cherry blue switches. The minimum special order is 50 qty per model with a manufacturing time of 2 months (estimated). I can place the order and we can all have one in May, but I need some *strong* commitments. I will create a widget or assign an e-mail address on my website that will allow you to "register" your intention to purchase either a FKBN104MC/EB or an FKBN87MC/EB (or both). Of course I'll link to it in this thread. If I get enough commitments over a week or so I will place the order and send an announcement back to all buyers. Sorry, but I feel this is the only way to mitigate my risk; this early in the game I don't have very many resources to commit to the Filco importation business.

[lam47]

Well that is a good start for sure.
I will take a FKBN87M/EB.
Would you like to take a deposit?

Look forward to seeing the site.

Laurie.


Quick question. Are the filcos plate mounted or PCB?

[Chloe]

They are plate mounted.

[lam47]

Nice that is what I hoped.

[alpslover]

i'd be interested in an fkbn104 with blue switches.

[variate]

I'll take one FKBN87M/EB. Let me know how to order it.
Thanks.

[ozar]

My interest is for the tenkeyless with blue cherries if that can happen. Thanks!

[iMav]

Just to chime in, I'm interested in a cherry blue-based Tenkeyless. (ascii)
i would kill for a FKBN87MC/EB cherry blue 87--i could use 2 of them ideally
Looking forward to a Filco with Cherry Blues ;).
A blue tenkeyless for me!
I may be in the market for a tenkeyless Filco with blue cherries
I'd be interested in a tenkeyless blue cherry model.
My interest is for the tenkeyless with blue cherries if that can happen. Thanks!
There is definitely some serious interest in the blue cherry tenkeyless. I would certainly purchase a couple of additional ones if it helped move things along.

And finally, regarding the Cherry blue switches. The minimum special order is 50 qty per model with a manufacturing time of 2 months (estimated).
Ok. I'd like some more information on the special order. Specifically, if they have to do a special run for these, can some additional changes be made? Bottom line, I would KILL for a tenkeyless, blue Cherry-equipped keyboard with bluetooth. (FKBT87MC/EB, I guess it would be) Have you had any conversations with Filco about this possibility. You could put me down for 5 of them if they were available. I'd wait 6 months for one. (and I'm guessing several of the folks wanting the tenkeyless blue Cherry 'board might jump on a bluetooth version)

[lam47]

I would take the blue tooth one for sure! Perhaps 2. Would depend on the price.
Seriously would be an amazing keyboard!

(I would make one if they are not avaliable. Might take a while to de solder all the browns and then stick the blues in but I would do it. You just watch me!)

[SUPER432]

What a world. One day I'm browsing for a new keyboard, find this forum, find the Filco keyboard, decide it's the one I want to purchase, and now it's being imported to the US (at least in limited quantities).

Put me on the list for:
FKBN104M/EB - Cherry MX Brown switches 104key ASCII Layout N-key Rollover

Thanks! Is there any way to get spare keytops? (For dyeing, etc.)

I'm also interested in either configuration (104 or tenkeyless) with Cherry Blue switches when these become available.

[lam47]

Anyone heard from Majestouch lately?

[majestouch]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for keeping the thread going, it's always good to see more feedback.

To iMav, you're right about the blue Cherry tenkeyless, I've tallied the requests up as well and I see a large demand. Additionally, I've mentioned bluetooth for the Tenkeyless and NKR 104 models to Diatec and I was told there are plans for new bluetooth models, but they were mum on the details, though I may get more info as my relationship with them improves. Currently, however, it is not possible for me to place an order for Tenkeyless with bluetooth, but given the demand for a blue cherry model without bluetooth it appears I'll be compelled to place an order very soon.

As for ordering keyboards with brown switches, I'm just about done with the initial website which will have information about each keyboard and links for paypal payment (initially). I'll post the URL here within the next couple days.

[Viett]

Good to hear you're making progress. Looking forward to seeing the site.

[adamrice]

Y'know, the keyboards I'm most accustomed to use ALPS white switches. I get the impression (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the Cherry Blue switches are a closer match to that than the Brown. I've already said put me down for a board with the Brown switches, and I do still want that, but it sounds like one with Blue switches might better suit me.

[FKSSR]

I have personally tried white alps and blue cherries. I much prefer white alps. In fact, I like white alps but not blue cherries. The blue cherries have a higher-pitched click and don't feel quite as solid to me.

I'm excited to try the brown cherries, though. The brown cherry board I get will be for RTS gaming, so it won't have to be as perfect anyway, since I won't really be typing on it.

[kyamei]

I have personally tried white alps and blue cherries. I much prefer white alps. In fact, I like white alps but not blue cherries. The blue cherries have a higher-pitched click and don't feel quite as solid to me.

And just for the flip side of this. I have tried white alps and blue cherries. I don't like white alps, but I rather like blue cherries. White alps are just too stiff, and don't feel quite as smooth as blue cherries.

In other words, its all a preference thing.

On topic: I'd probably be interested in an FKBN87MC/EB and possibly a brown version as well.

[lam47]

And just for the flip side of this. I have tried white alps and blue cherries. I don't like white alps, but I rather like blue cherries. White alps are just too stiff, and don't feel quite as smooth as blue cherries.

In other words, its all a preference thing.

On topic: I'd probably be interested in an FKBN87MC/EB and possibly a brown version as well.

Were they complex or simplified? The simplified ones feel very stiff but the complex should feel OK. Should not be a lot in it regarding spring tension.

[majestouch]

Keyboards have arrived. Website is operational, and it's totally 1337;)


http://www.elitekeyboards.com (http://www.elitekeyboards.com) will open for business this evening (Wednesday). (Until then it will be locked.)

Thank you for your patience.

[lam47]

cool. Looking forward to it!

[rio]

Keyboards have arrived. Website is operational, and it's totally 1337;)


http://www.elitekeyboards.com (http://www.elitekeyboards.com) will open for business this evening (Wednesday). (Until then it will be locked.)

Thank you for your patience.

Excellent work, excited to see this.

A question - did you correspond with Diatec in Japanese or English?
I ask because I speak a little Nihongo myself. :)

[itlnstln]

Like an impatient child, I keep clicking the link to see if it's ready. ;)

[o2dazone]

website T_T

[majestouch]

Well, it was getting so late I was beginning to think it wouldn't happen today, but I've received approval from Diatec.

http://www.elitekeyboards.com is now open for business.

I've negotiated a discount rate with Fedex, so I can offer shipping at a flat $10 rate for Ground service in the US (which ain't bad for a keyboard that weighs almost 3lbs!), there is also a 2-day option available during checkout. Any feedback on the site is GREATLY appreciated.

[variate]

Great! I just ordered one tenkeyless keyboard.
One suggestion. A confirmation email from your website in addition to paypal receipt would be nice.

By the way, where is it shipped from? I'm getting impatient.

[majestouch]

Thank you for waiting:) Everything is shipped from Los Angeles, California. I see your order and it will go out tomorrow. I'll e-mail you a tracking number.

[victheslik]

Hey Majestouch I'm actually situated in the Los Angeles area as well, at the moment I have just put away my Industrail IBM Model M into storage and back on the HHKB, seems like I favor the capicetence (spelling?) much more than the buckling springs. However I have yet to try any alps or cherries. I was wondering if I could perhaps drop by and check them out and if the feeling is there I could purchase them? Just curious thanks <3

[poonsmjj]

hey majestouch, will you be getting any filco zeros (white alps)? btw the site looks great and clean. Nice!

[variate]

Thank you for waiting:) Everything is shipped from Los Angeles, California. I see your order and it will go out tomorrow. I'll e-mail you a tracking number.

Great! Since it's coming from LA, I guess I'll be typing in this Friday. :D

[SUPER432]

Hehehe awesome, I was getting disappointed that the site wasn't going up today.

[lowpoly]

Very well done, good luck!

We once discussed here that vendors could have their own support forums on geekhack. Might be something for you?

[xsphat]

Hey majestouch, are you planning to offer the 87 key Zero?

[FKSSR]

Nice! I have to take care of a couple other financial matters, but I'll be order the 87 key brown cherry board shortly!

[FKSSR]

majestouch, I know you are just getting off the ground, but I was wondering if you were planning on eventually carrying other keyboards like the Realforce 87U?

[o2dazone]

Ordered :) The site is great! Simple, functional, and easy to use. I guess you modeled it after a Filco, huh?

[ozar]

I just ordered a TenKeyless as well.

Will report back on how it all went.

Thanks!

[ripster]

Just ordered a tenkeyless. Smooth transaction.

Congrats on the new business!

Sign me up for a blue cherry tenkeyless as well.

The website link to Marcos's keyboard overview was very helpful, somehow googling didn't get me to that one before.

Also, I don't know how google works for new sites but if the geekhack community can help you get to the top of the "filco keyboard usa" search let us know.

- Ripster

[adamrice]

For a non-gamer, is there any reason to get the N-key rollover model?

[bhtooefr]

Just a straight typist? Even in light gaming, I don't think I've ever needed NKRO.

[itlnstln]

For me, it's just having a keyboard with the best functionality. I may never "use" full NKRO, but it is comforting to know that it won't be an issue.

[FKSSR]

I don't think N-key rollover is that big of a deal to have or not have, depending on how precise you are with typing (or gaming), but I do agree that it is a good feature to have. I wonder if they could make that an option via some type of switch for the back of a keyboard...

[itlnstln]

Yeah, I don't really type with my fists much. :P

[bhtooefr]

Making it an option via a switch makes no sense - the diodes cost more whether you use them or not, and having NKRO isn't a detriment when you're not using it.

[FKSSR]

My only thought is that someone on the threads once said they noticed they made more typos with N-key rollover. I have no experience with this personally, but I figure that certain styles of typing may benefit from the keyboard being a little more selective.

But, yeah, I could be wrong...

[majestouch]

Thank you everyone for your support so far!

rio said A question - did you correspond with Diatec in Japanese or English?
I ask because I speak a little Nihongo myself.

Nihongo ga sukoshi dekimasu, demo ooku no Nihonjin no tomo arimasu.

variate said One suggestion. A confirmation email from your website in addition to paypal receipt would be nice.

Thank you for the suggestion, once I accept an order through Paypal I can dispatch an e-mail, but I agree that one should go out as soon as the transaction is approved.

victheslik said I have just put away my Industrail IBM Model M into storage and back on the HHKB, seems like I favor the capicetence (spelling?) much more than the buckling springs. However I have yet to try any alps or cherries. I was wondering if I could perhaps drop by and check them out and if the feeling is there I could purchase them?

Ah yes, IBM buckling spring keyboards...I used to create desktop dust storms on IBM 34xx twinax terminals, good times, but I spare my neighbors the racket these days. Sorry, I don't want to sound cold, but I'm not one to invite just anyone over to touch my keyboard! In any case, I'm a pretty private guy, I don't want to make a habit of inviting people over to my house to make sales, so I'm reluctant to do this, but thank you for your interest. I hope this doesn't deter your interest in owning a FILCO someday.

poonsmjj said hey majestouch, will you be getting any filco zeros (white alps)? btw the site looks great and clean. Nice!

Glad you like the site:) There have been a few inquiries about the Zero series with white ALPS so I'm definitely considering carrying this model in the near future.

low poly said
Very well done, good luck!

We once discussed here that vendors could have their own support forums on geekhack. Might be something for you?

This is an interesting proposition. I don't want to be imposing, so I'm not going to ask for it, but if you choose to make such a forum, I would be willing to frequent it. I understand managing a forum isn't always butterflies and green meadows, and bandwidth isn't free, so I don't want burden anyone. However, if geekhack.org feels it will serve the community well, then this might be a great idea. I don't know if geekhack.org is averse to advertisements, but I might be willing to help with monthly bandwidth costs for an unobtrusive banner or a shameless plug.

FKSSR said majestouch, I know you are just getting off the ground, but I was wondering if you were planning on eventually carrying other keyboards like the Realforce 87U?

Diatec has asked me for some brand commitment, but as they sell Topre as well as PFU on their own website, it could be a possibility sometime in the future. First I need to flush out the FILCO selection, and blue Cherry switch boards are a priority.

o2dazone said Ordered, The site is great! Simple, functional, and easy to use. I guess you modeled it after a Filco, huh?

Thank you for your patronage and appreciation;) So, you wouldn't prefer the website with glossy drop-down menus with 22 cross-linked javascript dependencies? Maybe some ridiculously large mouseover hovering IFRAMES overflowing with multimedia and cross-linked affiliate ads? Don't get me started on Flash... (Yep, I'm *definitely* into functionality and simplicity.)

ripster said Also, I don't know how google works for new sites but if the geekhack community can help you get to the top of the "filco keyboard usa" search let us know.

Thank you for your support. My project for the weekend is to get a sitemap together. I won't go so far as to ask anyone here for help in "bumping" my site, but if you'd really like to help, you can sort through google results for "filco keyboard" or some other similar search and find elitekeyboards.com and click through:)

adamrice said For a non-gamer, is there any reason to get the N-key rollover model?

Good question. I'm not a gamer and I've been using a non-NKRO FILCO for close to 3 years now and I see no reason to upgrade to an NKRO board for my purposes; mostly coding and writing. From an engineering standpoint I can't help but think the NKRO feature *might* cause a few more typing mistakes for the average typist during non-gaming activity, but I've yet to do any tests. If anyone who has purchased one of the NKRO boards would put up a review that explores this topic, it would be very helpful.

[o2dazone]

Oh, don't get me wrong...theres always a time and place for scriptaculous or jQuery, but I prefer it to be on sites that don't deal with real money transactions! lol

[itlnstln]

Majestouch:

In your three years of owning/using Filco 'boards, have you noticed any tendency for the grippy coating coming off the keys rather quickly. The ABS keyboard I use frequently started losing the coating on the keys after only about 2-3 weeks or so. I have never had another keyboard do this in the past, and I am notoriously clean when using my keyboards, so I was wondering if this is just a trait with all Costar-OEMed 'boards or just the batch they made for ABS. Thanks. I plan on ordering from you soon.

[tamasrepus]

@majestouch For furthering the "elite" effect of these keyboards, have you looked at carrying the red Escape key available for Filco boards?

These look awesome, I'd definitely get them for the boards I already have.

[rio]

Were you planning on releasing wireless ones at some point as well? I know it was mentioned, but I thought I would check.

The site looks great. I am planning on buying ASAP. :) Thanks for your hard work!

[majestouch]

In your three years of owning/using Filco 'boards, have you noticed any tendency for the grippy coating coming off the keys rather quickly. The ABS keyboard I use frequently started losing the coating on the keys after only about 2-3 weeks or so. I have never had another keyboard do this in the past, and I am notoriously clean when using my keyboards, so I was wondering if this is just a trait with all Costar-OEMed 'boards or just the batch they made for ABS. Thanks. I plan on ordering from you soon.

I haven't touched an ABS myself, but to the best of my knowledge they are only available with Black Cherry switches. I've tried a Filco with Black Cherries for a day and found the keys subjectively require a lot more force to actuate than the Browns (I have browns). So, the extra pressure and extra amount of key contact required to apply that pressure may have something to do with the coating not lasting very long, then again, it might be a different coating. I'm very fastidious and I usually wash my hands before typing and often throughout the day. I have seen the coating slowly wear on frequently used keys over the years, but it definitely isn't a difference I can notice over a few weeks or one or two months. The coating is still very noticeable on most keys; it has definitely outlasted the cheap silver coating on my Trackman Wheel. Here are a few shots of my board from a couple different angles that perhaps you can compare to your ABS board.

Most notable wear is on the space bar; as you can see I favor my left thumb for spacing. A habit I really need to kick!

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/external/3year_filco1.jpg

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/external/3year_filco2.jpg

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/external/3year_filco3.jpg

[ozar]

majestouch... I ordered a Tenkeyless from you very early this morning. Will an email with tracking info go out right after it's shipped?

The website looks great and worked perfectly by the way. Looking forward to any coming enhancements. If you eventually are able to sell Topre, HHKB, and Filco boards, you really will be the Elite Keyboards sales website here in USA.

Best of luck with it all!


Edit: never mind, already got the email saying it's on it's way... that was FAST! :)

[itlnstln]

Your keyboard looks a lot like mine. There is a light shine on the letter keys and spacebar where the coating has come off. I wash my hands several times a day, and I never eat and type, etc., but it was odd that the coating on these keys didn't last very long. Otherwise, these 'boards are fantastic, and I can't wait to get one. I have been very happy with my ABSs so far, so I am pretty sure I will be happy with a Filco. Thanks!

BTW, one quick reccomendation. A feather duster works great at getting the dust from in between the keys. :)

[ozar]

A feather duster works great at getting the dust from in between the keys. :)

I use one of these:

http://www.metrovacworld.com/Shopping/product.asp?catalog_name=metrovac&category_name=&product_id=DataVacPro

It works great... you just have to make sure all keycaps are on good!

[itlnstln]

Those are pretty nice (1.7 HP motor!). My dad had something like it back in the day, and it did work pretty well.

[cchan]

I haven't touched an ABS myself, but to the best of my knowledge they are only available with Black Cherry switches.

Nope, ABS M1's are black ALPS switches. Tactile and non-clicky, with activation force apparently about the level of a blue cherry. (Subjectively to me based on my AT101W anyway.)

[SUPER432]

Wow mine already shipped this morning, wasn't expecting that!

Any chance we can get these cool red ESC keys?
http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1233807516

An by that matter does Diatec/Filco sell spare keysets?

[karlito]

just my 2 cents:

it would be nice if the product page showed the price and probably even an add to cart button. i personally would like to see the cherry switch description on the product page but i understand that to most people this would be worthless info. so it's probably enough that the key type is listed in the full details.

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?lang=en

[majestouch]

Rio said
Were you planning on releasing wireless ones at some point as well? I know it was mentioned, but I thought I would check.

I would like to, the current bluetooth 104key US ASCII keyboard from Diatec has been discontinued, possibly due to low sales. I am told a new model is in the works, but I don't have any info or dates yet. I definitely understand the demand for it and for a 87key version is here; so I'll be sure encourage Diatec to develop these and I'll offer it as soon as it is available.

tamasrepus said

@majestouch For furthering the "elite" effect of these keyboards, have you looked at carrying the red Escape key available for Filco boards?

These look awesome, I'd definitely get them for the boards I already have.

SUPER432

Any chance we can get these cool red ESC keys?
http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/i..._id=1233807516

An by that matter does Diatec/Filco sell spare keysets?


I'll see about getting the red Esc keys, they look kind of cool on all black. They also have red Esc keys that say "FILCO" on them, but is there demand for "FILCO" red escape keys?

itlnstln said

BTW, one quick reccomendation. A feather duster works great at getting the dust from in between the keys.

Low tech kicks a$$:)

karlito said

it would be nice if the product page showed the price and probably even an add to cart button. i personally would like to see the cherry switch description on the product page but i understand that to most people this would be worthless info. so it's probably enough that the key type is listed in the full details.

Thanks for your suggestion, I've been thinking along the same lines for the switches, but at the moment I only have one color...in time. As for the price and "add to cart" on the product index page - some additions there definitely could add a little transparency to my product offering; though I did make a similar layout once for another site where the owner didn't want to have a full price listing on the product index pages for the sole reason of making research harder for the competition!

[ozar]

I'll see about getting the red Esc keys, they look kind of cool on all black. They also have red Esc keys that say "FILCO" on them, but is there demand for "FILCO" red escape keys?
I like the red Esc keys, but don't care for the Filco branded keys. Can't speak for the others here, though.

[itlnstln]

I would like a red Esc key, Filco-branded or not.

[o2dazone]

I was also surprised at the immensely fast shipping, dare I say faster than Newegg :o

[FKSSR]

I just purchased my FKBN87M/EB! I couldn't wait any longer. :D

I'm personally not interested in the red escape key, but I may be interested in purchasing additional keys (i.e. purchasing white keys to swap out with black keys for gaming purposes).

Thanks!

[iMav]

I'll see about getting the red Esc keys, they look kind of cool on all black. They also have red Esc keys that say "FILCO" on them, but is there demand for "FILCO" red escape keys?
The red (as well as two other color) "Filco" keys used to come with their keyboards (along with a key puller). At least that was the case with my brown Cherry-equipped tenkeyless. I was extremely disappointed when these were not included in my blue Cherry tenkeyless. (I was also a bit bummed that this 'board had the green LED's instead of the blue LED's like on the brown Cherry 'board...)

[lowpoly]

We once discussed here that vendors could have their own support forums on geekhack. Might be something for you?

This is an interesting proposition. I don't want to be imposing, so I'm not going to ask for it, but if you choose to make such a forum, I would be willing to frequent it. I understand managing a forum isn't always butterflies and green meadows, and bandwidth isn't free, so I don't want burden anyone. However, if geekhack.org feels it will serve the community well, then this might be a great idea. I don't know if geekhack.org is averse to advertisements, but I might be willing to help with monthly bandwidth costs for an unobtrusive banner or a shameless plug.
iMav, did you see this?

[ssb]

Do you accept international orders? If yes, what's the shipping charge for delivery to Greece, and how can be paid?

All the luck in the new business. :)

[lal]

They also have red Esc keys that say "FILCO" on them, but is there demand for "FILCO" red escape keys?


Nope.

[variate]

I got it! I'm typing it right now.
Here is the picture with my SGI Granite. It looks tiny. It also requires much less effort to type. I'll see which one I like better over time.

By the way, I'd be interested in red esc if shipping is reasonable.

http://i-coco.com/images/filco.jpg

[Viett]

You might want to forward elitekeyboards.com to the www.elitekeyboards.com address. I've typed it in a few times and got the error page that's there.

[majestouch]

iMav:
The red (as well as two other color) "Filco" keys used to come with their keyboards (along with a key puller). At least that was the case with my brown Cherry-equipped tenkeyless. I was extremely disappointed when these were not included in my blue Cherry tenkeyless. (I was also a bit bummed that this 'board had the green LED's instead of the blue LED's like on the brown Cherry 'board...)

Interesting, I purchased my FILCO almost 3 years ago in Japan, but didn't receive a red Esc key, how long ago did you buy your tenkeyless and who from?

Diatec changes the LEDs when they use different Cherry switches; browns have blue LEDs, blacks have red LEDs, blues have green LEDs. Though the white ALPS boards have blue LEDs.

ssb:
Do you accept international orders? If yes, what's the shipping charge for delivery to Greece, and how can be paid?

International orders are accepted, please e-mail sales@elitekeyboards.com

Viett:
You might want to forward elitekeyboards.com to the www.elitekeyboards.com address. I've typed it in a few times and got the error page that's there.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it.

[bobodod]

I'll see about getting the red Esc keys, they look kind of cool on all black. They also have red Esc keys that say "FILCO" on them, but is there demand for "FILCO" red escape keys?

majestouch, count me in for the red Esc key, non-FILCO branded. I'd also like a set of the purple ASDW keys (http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=595) if at all possible.

Thank you & thanks for getting my board out so quickly!

Best of luck! I believe you stand to form a lucrative business at the forefront of a keyboard revolution in the US. I think everyone will want a mechanical keyboard once they know the difference.

[bhtooefr]

Red LEDs? Nice.

(Red LEDs on a brown or blue board would be awesome. You just don't see red LEDs on computers much any more.)

[o2dazone]

Not to cross-post (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=1825) but I received my board today all in one piece :) Thanks Brian!

[FKSSR]

Red LEDs? Nice.

(Red LEDs on a brown or blue board would be awesome. You just don't see red LEDs on computers much any more.)

I plan to mod at least a couple of my boards to have red LEDs, especially my two gaming boards. The brown Cherry tenkeyless is one I plan on being a gaming board, so if I like it in that function, it is likely to get the mod. I'm not in a big hurry to do it, though.

[webwit]

International orders are acceptedI like your shop, but I'm hesitant to order when the conditions explicitly state there is no warranty on international orders. Free world-wide shipping though ;) For comparison, in all cases there was a problem with stuff from ebay like doa, I got full refunds. And geekstuff4u has full warranty and free return shipping, if necessary. If you would change that it would be a much easier choice. Of course, we need a Filco Europe.. but that's another story.

[majestouch]

webwit

Quote:
International orders are accepted
I like your shop, but I'm hesitant to order when the conditions explicitly state there is no warranty on international orders. Free world-wide shipping though For comparison, in all cases there was a problem with stuff from ebay like doa, I got full refunds. And geekstuff4u has full warranty and free return shipping, if necessary. If you would change that it would be a much easier choice. Of course, we need a Filco Europe.. but that's another story.

Thank you for your comments webwit.

I wouldn't sell DIATEC if I didnt' think it was a high quality product. I'm betting a DOA is near impossible. And service requests over the lifetime of the boards will be few and far between so I see no reason to raise my margin anymore than it is. I want to offer a solid product at the best price I can.

Geekstuff4u is charging $150 for the FKBN104M/EB and they're probably getting the same bulk pricing I am, but I have to ship to the US and pay duties before I can even add my own operating and labor costs. And I'm still cheaper. For a product of this quality I think it is ridiculous to pay what Geekstuff4u is asking. I'm not sure what you mean when you say Geekstuff4u is offering free return shipping...is that for repairs? or is it for a return with a complete refund? If they pay shipping on a complete return w/refund, then that explains why their prices are so high - they have to balance the risk for products that come back. I'm sorry, but I don't want to jack prices up on US customers just to sell a few boards overseas.

Additionally, my purchase terms clearly state that returns are only allowed for DOA products for the first 30 days. I HAVE to have a condition like this or I will get all kinds of "test drivers." I can't do that to my customers - there is no way I can resell a perfectly fine, but soiled, keyboard that costs $100+, it just ain't cool for a luxury product like this. I would once again have to raise my prices to deal with the risk.

That said, I have no problem honoring the warranty terms for someone overseas, but I have no way to offer the same level of customer service to you that I can offer here in the US. I can't even begin to meet you halfway after a repair and ship it back to you at a good rate. I wouldn't be able to send you a replacement keytop via post without breaking the bank. Even for a board of this level, sending it back from overseas for a repair versus just buying a new one is a debatable decision. The warranty is nothing after all those shipping costs. The lowest insured shipping cost I can get to Netherlands for a FKBN104M/EB, for example, is around $45 with the postal service, which would make things a bit cheaper than Geekstuff4u. And of course if a problem arises I'd offer free repairs just as if you're in the US, but I'd have to ask you to pay for shipping both ways for the service.

So, I hope you better understand my policies, and that my answer has helped any other people considering making a purchase from oversees. I will also add something to my FAQ to the same tune for future reference. I will also add some comments elsewhere on the site to help inform international buyers of my policies.

[webwit]

webwit


Thank you for your comments webwit.

I wouldn't sell DIATEC if I didnt' think it was a high quality product. I'm betting a DOA is near impossible. And service requests over the lifetime of the boards will be few and far between so I see no reason to raise my margin anymore than it is. I want to offer a solid product at the best price I can.

Geekstuff4u is charging $150 for the FKBN104M/EB and they're probably getting the same bulk pricing I am, but I have to ship to the US and pay duties before I can even add my own operating and labor costs. And I'm still cheaper. For a product of this quality I think it is ridiculous to pay what Geekstuff4u is asking. I'm not sure what you mean when you say Geekstuff4u is offering free return shipping...is that for repairs? or is it for a return with a complete refund? If they pay shipping on a complete return w/refund, then that explains why their prices are so high - they have to balance the risk for products that come back. I'm sorry, but I don't want to jack prices up on US customers just to sell a few boards overseas.

Additionally, my purchase terms clearly state that returns are only allowed for DOA products for the first 30 days. I HAVE to have a condition like this or I will get all kinds of "test drivers." I can't do that to my customers - there is no way I can resell a perfectly fine, but soiled, keyboard that costs $100+, it just ain't cool for a luxury product like this. I would once again have to raise my prices to deal with the risk.

That said, I have no problem honoring the warranty terms for someone overseas, but I have no way to offer the same level of customer service to you that I can offer here in the US. I can't even begin to meet you halfway after a repair and ship it back to you at a good rate. I wouldn't be able to send you a replacement keytop via post without breaking the bank. Even for a board of this level, sending it back from overseas for a repair versus just buying a new one is a debatable decision. The warranty is nothing after all those shipping costs. The lowest insured shipping cost I can get to Netherlands for a FKBN104M/EB, for example, is around $45 with the postal service, which would make things a bit cheaper than Geekstuff4u. And of course if a problem arises I'd offer free repairs just as if you're in the US, but I'd have to ask you to pay for shipping both ways for the service.

So, I hope you better understand my policies, and that my answer has helped any other people considering making a purchase from oversees. I will also add something to my FAQ to the same tune for future reference. I will also add some comments elsewhere on the site to help inform international buyers of my policies.

No problem, that is a valid business choice. But, you are a commercial vendor, and do sell internationally, for the profit. So if the quality is so great, and you ship, I don't want the burden of risk on me as a consumer, because faulty shipped items are a business risk, not a consumer risk. If you have 100 boards and 2 are not good from the factory, that's your risk, and not the buyer's, otherwise you shouldn't be selling to them IMO. I agree that a return policy is not viable in most cases, and whenever there was a problem, I simply got a refund. Geekstuff4u has a deal with their global mailer for returns, but there will probably be a threshold too. I think we have a different definition of DOA ;) No I don't want to return a working board after 50 days based on DOA warranty. Also, I wouldn't be interested in shipping insurance from companies like USPS, because those are simple scams.

[itlnstln]

I ordered a FKB104M/EB. I can't wait until it gets here! :)

[lam47]

Though I often dont agree with Webwit I have to say I do here.
I have never understood why a consumer must pay return shipping for a faulty item.
Its just not right.
And to have to pay both ways I find just a bit much.
However I do understand where you are coming from and how you would need to protect your business.
Whenever I sell something on ebay or anywhere else I always cover any shipping to do with returns so long as it is not the fault of the buyer.
I wish all company's would do the same as it just seems right to me.

I'm sorry to say it is your returns policy that has prevented me from purchasing a board.
I still wish you the best of luck and thank you for offering the service, but feel it much more suited to US customers.

[lal]

Though I often dont agree with Webwit I have to say I do here.
I have never understood why a consumer must pay return shipping for a faulty item.
Its just not right.
And to have to pay both ways I find just a bit much.
However I do understand where you are coming from and how you would need to protect your business.
Whenever I sell something on ebay or anywhere else I always cover any shipping to do with returns so long as it is not the fault of the buyer.
I wish all company's would do the same as it just seems right to me.


I've heard here in Germany we have the highest number of laws and regulations amongst all the countries of the world, and while I'm not particularly proud of that fact, I like the one rule that obliges all commercial sellers to pay all shipping costs when returning defective products during the two year warranty period, which is prescribed by law too. Products ordered by phone, mail or web can be returned within 14 days without having to give any reason. This is supposed to make up for not being able to inspect the item before buying like it's possible in a retail store. That is very good :)

[itlnstln]

I guess it's just like buying something from a B&M store, though. If a product is faulty, you still invest your time and gas to return the product. I understand where folks from outside the US are coming from; however, but in order to offer these keyboards at such a low price, some sacrifices would have to be made. Since this is a private individual and not a company like Newegg, I am impressed at the level of service and professionalism offered, and, unfortunately, he would not have the reserve capital (yet) to handle such expenditures. Hell, he would have had to put up a ton of dough just to get the stock in the first place.

[webwit]

It isn't so hard to deal with. As a vendor, you just add $5 or something to International shipping costs, based on the expected returns. And you'd only need to cover the price you paid yourself. As a vendor, you can make it a non-emotional thing by just working the numbers. And if returns are lower than projected, you make an extra buck, which is nice.

[ripster]

I ordered on Thursday, it shipped on Friday, arrived on Saturday. Packaging was very professional (I am used to dusty Ebay boxes) and a warranty sheet was included. Needless to say, I'm impressed with Majestouch's service.

I'll be posting a review in the review section soon. As a preview here's a pic of the FKBN87M/EB next to my IBM Model M Space Saver (mini) and a generic Logitech.

My first impression was, "Hey, this thing is COMPACT!"

- Ripster

[ozar]

TenKeyLess Arrived!

Nice... and thanks for the photos showing the footprint comparison. I ordered the same board the same day, but mine won't be here until Tuesday. Guess I live too far away to get it today. Hope you have fun with the new board and am looking forward to your review.

Hey, how do you like that mouse? I bought one just like it but can't get used to the "dry touch" grip. Otherwise, it's great. I then bought the G9 mouse only to find that one of the grips that comes with it also uses the same dry touch textured grip. I switched to the other grip and now love the G9 mouse.

[nvus]

Is there a geekhack user discount :)

[itlnstln]

These are the cheapest Filcos you can get, and the fact that majestouch may not have even started the store without a community like Geekhack in the first place is privilage enough for Geekhack users. :)

[FKSSR]

majestouch, is there any chance you can get blank key caps like the ones in this thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=290&page=33)?

Thanks.

[ozar]

majestouch, is there any chance you can get blank key caps like the ones in this thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=290&page=33)?

Thanks.
Just in case majestouch can't get them and if you should need them soon, this guy on ebay still shows to have three sets available for $35 each with free shipping:

http://search.ebay.com/220383480337

[patrickgeekhack]

I guess it's just like buying something from a B&M store, though. If a product is faulty, you still invest your time and gas to return the product. I understand where folks from outside the US are coming from; however, but in order to offer these keyboards at such a low price, some sacrifices would have to be made. Since this is a private individual and not a company like Newegg, I am impressed at the level of service and professionalism offered, and, unfortunately, he would not have the reserve capital (yet) to handle such expenditures. Hell, he would have had to put up a ton of dough just to get the stock in the first place.

On one hand, I, too, understand potential buyers outside of the US. I'm in the same boat. In fact, some of you might know that I had some short-circuit problem with my Customizer. Had I not been able to find a solution, I would have made no sense for me to ship it to Unicomp for repairs because of the shipping cost. Unicomp will pay for shipping for repair facility to customer only in the US. So for us abroad, we need to evaluate how much risk we are willing to take. Sad, but true. It's not a big deal for a $10 keyboard like the Dell AT101W, but one that cost over $100 + shipping, it is.

On the other hand, it's a start-up company, and I have heard some very good reviews from those who bought from elitekeyboards.com. Maybe in the future, he will abe able to accomodate foreign buyers. I can only wish him the best. It takes some guts to invest in keyboard sales when most people don't care about what switches their keyboards use.

[SUPER432]

My 104 N-key rollover arrived Saturday (ordered Wednesday?). Very satisfied. Thanks!

That being said, any word on blue-switch keyboards? =]

These would be nice also:
http://filco.com.tw/product.php?page_id=23&product_id=27

Any chance on blank keytops?

[iMav]

Just in case majestouch can't get them and if you should need them soon, this guy on ebay still shows to have three sets available for $35 each with free shipping:

http://search.ebay.com/220383480337
Those are for the Topre capacitive switches...not the brown Cherry switches that majestouch is currently selling.

[ozar]

Those are for the Topre capacitive switches...not the brown Cherry switches that majestouch is currently selling.
Ah, thanks for the correction, iMav... I stayed up too late last night and have been still asleep pretty much all day today. :o

[Viett]

And finally, regarding the Cherry blue switches. The minimum special order is 50 qty per model with a manufacturing time of 2 months (estimated). I can place the order and we can all have one in May, but I need some *strong* commitments. I will create a widget or assign an e-mail address on my website that will allow you to "register" your intention to purchase either a FKBN104MC/EB or an FKBN87MC/EB (or both). Of course I'll link to it in this thread. If I get enough commitments over a week or so I will place the order and send an announcement back to all buyers. Sorry, but I feel this is the only way to mitigate my risk; this early in the game I don't have very many resources to commit to the Filco importation business.

Will you be collecting these commitments anytime soon? Can we eventually expect to see these for sale? I'm particularly interested in the Blue Cherry Filcos, and I'd like to order one through you whenever they are available.

[majestouch]

I'm getting spoiled with all the feedback here:)

The keycaps, in all their incarnations, are something I am thoroughly investigating. And I haven't forgetten about the blue Cherries.

I have an e-mail newsletter subscription available on my site through which new products will be announced - though I'm beginning to doubt many of you check your e-mail as often as you check geekhack.org:cool:

[majestouch]

Will you be collecting these commitments anytime soon? Can we eventually expect to see these for sale? I'm particularly interested in the Blue Cherry Filcos, and I'd like to order one through you whenever they are available.

Thank you for your interest. I am in the process of deciding whether those commitments will be necessary or not. I hope to update everyone who is interested soon.

[itlnstln]

Majestouch:

I noticed that the link for the GeekHack review on your main page links to the dev version of the site. From what I understand, iMav doesn't particularly care for people linking to that site. Here is the link to that review on the main site: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=584

[majestouch]

Thanks for the tip. I've updated this.

[itlnstln]

One other thing, majestouch, I placed my order on Saturday with an unconfirmed (my work) address. Is this OK? UPS doesn't deliver to my house anymore since it is up for sale (and it royally pisses me off; everyone else will deliver but them).

[majestouch]

I see it here, going out today, shouldn't be a problem. I have henchmen that live nearby if there is...

[itlnstln]

I see your henchmen and raise you a crew of paesans. :)

Thanks!!!

[rdjack21]

Wow the tenkeyless is already out of stock. I guess that proves that there is demand. I really hope when he makes the order for the blues he gets a bunch of them as I think they will go faster.

[ozar]

Wow the tenkeyless is already out of stock. I guess that proves that there is demand. I really hope when he makes the order for the blues he gets a bunch of them as I think they will go faster.
Yeah, I figured he'd run out of Tenkeyless models first and soon, hence my order going in the 1st day. I'd think it shouldn't take long for new stock to arrive, however.

[o2dazone]

The keycaps, in all their incarnations, are something I am thoroughly investigating.

If there's anything you need similar to the blue cherries (ahead of time payment) I'd be the first the sign up!

(particularly chatty today because I'm still wooing over my keyboard)

[majestouch]

I see your henchmen and raise you a crew of paesans.

Thanks!!!

Welcome.

Paesans?

[itlnstln]

Welcome.

Paesans?

Paesans: http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/

<- Sicilian :)


("Paesano" is like countryman/friend in Italian)

[ozar]

Yippee... my new Tenkeyless arrived today, and in perfect order! Based on my experiences so far with Elite Keyboards, I recommend them highly for your Filco keyboard purchases.

Thanks a bunch, Majestouch! :cool:

[FKSSR]

Mine doesn't come until Thursday, since I live on the complete opposite side of the continental US! Arg! Can't wait! :)

[majestouch]

Paesans: http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/

<- Sicilian

("Paesano" is like countryman/friend in Italian)

Ahh, that would explain all the pizza parlor listings that came up when I googled it ;)

Yippee... my new Tenkeyless arrived today, and in perfect order! Based on my experiences so far with Elite Keyboards, I recommend them highly for your Filco keyboard purchases.

You're welcome, and thanks for the recommendation :)

[majestouch]

Yeah, I figured he'd run out of Tenkeyless models first and soon, hence my order going in the 1st day. I'd think it shouldn't take long for new stock to arrive, however.

I'll have more next week, I hate running out of stock, but it's hard to anticipate what daily average sales will be less than a week into this game! Working on the blues and others still...I'll keep you posted.

[webwit]

That you ran out is good news ;) It's good to see a quality keyboard dealer do well, although business might slow if all geekhackers have the filcos they want. But I don't think overstock is a potential problem.

[ozar]

although business might slow if all geekhackers have the filcos they want.
I think that's what happened to Brian O'Neil and the gray Industrials on eBay... once all the geekhackers wanting them had their's, sales slowed greatly.

[FKSSR]

But isn't it our job to continue "spreading the gospel" of great keyboards and making new GeekHackers? :D

[cchan]

I think that's what happened to Brian O'Neil and the gray Industrials on eBay... once all the geekhackers wanting them had their's, sales slowed greatly.
good for me, I'm waiting for the $19.99 BIN industrials.

[bigpook]

I could see where sales for the gray IBM's would slow as they strike me as a niche market anyway. Besides the fact that they are 'antique' and no longer made.

Not so much for the Filco though, they are modern and come with a wide variety of keyswitches. I assume the ABS is doing well on newegg and if so thats the first clue that there is a wider market for quality keyboards.
I am thinking if majestouch plays the game right he can have a profitable business going.
The more people that know about Filco, and the fact they can be had for a good price, would bode well for future sales.
On a side note, if lowpoly can get his keyboard into production he would have a natural sales channel to push product through.
I can only see good things here.

[itlnstln]

I do think sales will tail off some after the initial run. I also think that members, such as myself, will continue to buy additional 'boards from majestouch as new models are made available. One of the main resons I never bought a Filco before was due to their unavailablity here in the US; I did not want to mess with a buying service. Also, as we gain more members, they will probably want to buy a Filco from him as well. I am sure he will start advertising on other sites in the near future, though. More business is never a bad thing.

[FKSSR]

Once I try out a few more keyboards, I will be writing something on a gaming site about them. That could drive sales for a few places, as well. I'm not saying that I'm that convincing but great keyboards speak for themselves. :)

[bigpook]

I do think sales will tail off some after the initial run. I also think that members, such as myself, will continue to buy additional 'boards from majestouch as new models are made available. One of the main resons I never bought a Filco before was due to their unavailablity here in the US; I did not want to mess with a buying service. Also, as we gain more members, they will probably want to buy a Filco from him as well. I am sure he will start advertising on other sites in the near future, though. More business is never a bad thing.

I suppose after the initial rush sales would taper but if the word gets out and more people are made aware that they can be had 'locally' versus a buying service then sales could be steady.
I have dealt with crescent-shopping and overall they have been pleasant to deal with. Its the cost of shipping and handling that kills it though.
majestouch has decent pricing and the filco's are really nice keyboards.
I would imagine gamers and people that are looking for a quality keyboard will lay out the cash to get one versus the membrane stuff they sell at best buy...

On the plus side with filco is that they have quite a few different key switches available. Its not like the das III that is only available with blue cherries.

[majestouch]

Once I try out a few more keyboards, I will be writing something on a gaming site about them. That could drive sales for a few places, as well. I'm not saying that I'm that convincing but great keyboards speak for themselves.

That would be great. Any help is appreciated.

If anyone else has any site recommendations that might have a readership interested in FILCOs I'd appreciate a URL; as I'd like to send out some review units. If I can't sell products consistently, then everyone that does want a FILCO may have to go back to buying from overseas :(

[iMav]

Create a standard banner ad and I'll work it into the site. (720x90 or 468x60 are fine)

[bhtooefr]

http://techreport.com/

They do the occasional keyboard review. Although, I believe their main mechanical keyboard reviewer is in France.

[FKSSR]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! Stupid FedEx didn't leave the package at my apartment. For some reason, they seem to randomly decide that some packages need to have me there while they will leave other ones. I guess it may be different drivers, but it means I can't get my new Filco until tomorrow, because I'll have to get the door tag and sign it for them to leave the keyboard tomorrow.

Man, it so ticks me off when this happens. :(

[ozar]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! Stupid FedEx didn't leave the package at my apartment. For some reason, they seem to randomly decide that some packages need to have me there while they will leave other ones. I guess it may be different drivers, but it means I can't get my new Filco until tomorrow, because I'll have to get the door tag and sign it for them to leave the keyboard tomorrow.

Man, it so ticks me off when this happens. :(
Bummer... the same thing happens with UPS sometimes. One day not too long ago, I waited around all day for a delivery and the UPS guy drove right by my house and kept going. It turns out he left my package with a neighbor 3 houses down the street. Both houses were clearly marked with their street numbers, so I can only presume some of their drivers are unable to read.

...but yeah, I understand your pain.

[itlnstln]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! Stupid FedEx didn't leave the package at my apartment. For some reason, they seem to randomly decide that some packages need to have me there while they will leave other ones. I guess it may be different drivers, but it means I can't get my new Filco until tomorrow, because I'll have to get the door tag and sign it for them to leave the keyboard tomorrow.

Man, it so ticks me off when this happens. :(

I have my packages delivered at work for this very reason. That, and i get to play with my new keyboards as soon as the arrive. :)

BTW, I just my Filco, and it is fantastic. It feels worlds different than the Cherry. In a good way, of course.

[bhtooefr]

FedEx actually likes to forget that my apartment exists, and doesn't even TRY to deliver.

UPS, OTOH, is REALLY good here. The driver even makes two passes through here (because there's some drop boxes across the street with an evening pickup, and writes his cell number on the tag, so if I miss his morning delivery, I can call him, and he'll have the package for an evening delivery.

USPS... they're bad about either not delivering the day after a holiday, or dropping packages that should be signed for and running.

[FKSSR]

I have my packages delivered at work for this very reason. That, and i get to play with my new keyboards as soon as the arrive.

Yeah, I used to do that until a couple packages got lost on the way to the office. Also, the mail guys don't deliver until a day later.

BTW, I just my Filco, and it is fantastic. It feels worlds different than the Cherry. In a good way, of course.

First of all, I hate you. ;) Second, how exactly is it different. I assume you'll post more somewhere else, but I just had to ask. If I like the browns a lot, I will get a Cherry for work, so I'm curious what the differences would be.

EDIT: I just saw your review post, so disregard.

USPS... they're bad about either not delivering the day after a holiday, or dropping packages that should be signed for and running.

At my apartment, there is a front entrance where packages are usually left. No one messes with them, so I feel 100% safe with them being left there and much prefer it. If I knew that FedEx or UPS or USPS or whoever was going to consistently not leave them there, I would figure out something else, but it's the inconsistency that drives me crazy!

Waiting one extra day for a keyboard should not be sooo painful... :)

[bhtooefr]

I've never lost a package to USPS dropping and running, though, so there is something to be said for that.

My UPS guy is actually smart about when to drop and run, or when to leave the note. If it's obviously expensive car or computer parts, he leaves the note. Otherwise, he drops and runs.

(And, if it needs to be signed for, he leaves the note.)

[FKSSR]

If it's obviously expensive car or computer parts, he leaves the note. Otherwise, he drops and runs.

(And, if it needs to be signed for, he leaves the note.)

Maybe that is what is going on here. Oh well, I can live a day. It is just a bit of a bummer.

[itlnstln]

Yeah, I used to do that until a couple packages got lost on the way to the office. Also, the mail guys don't deliver until a day later.

That sucks. They seem to deliver sooner at my office (at least earlier in the day).

I work right by the airport and the shippers' depots, so it is usually easy for them to deliver here.

[rdjack21]

If the FedEx warehouse is close by why not call them. They will get your board off the truck when the driver gets in. Then you can run down there and get it. I'm lucky the FedEx warehouse is less than a mile from my house so I just watch the tracking then call them and ask to have the package kept at the warehouse that way I can pick it up on the way home.

EDIT: Forgot to add where I'm at the warehouse is open until 9pm. If the driver is not back at the warehouse when you call (normally the case) they will make a note to get the board when he shows up. But be prepared most of them don't get back to the warehouse until late thats why I try to call before hand and have them just leave it at the warehouse instead of putting it on the truck.

[FKSSR]

If the FedEx warehouse is close by why not call them. They will get your board off the truck when the driver gets in. Then you can run down there and get it. I'm lucky the FedEx warehouse is less than a mile from my house so I just watch the tracking then call them and ask to have the package kept at the warehouse that way I can pick it up on the way home.

EDIT: Forgot to add where I'm at the warehouse is open until 9pm. If the driver is not back at the warehouse when you call (normally the case) they will make a note to get the board when he shows up. But be prepared most of them don't get back to the warehouse until late thats why I try to call before hand and have them just leave it at the warehouse instead of putting it on the truck.

I did call, but they said that the packages stay on the truck until the driver has made 3 attempts. They will not give me the option of picking it up tonight.

[itlnstln]

I did call, but they said that the packages stay on the truck until the driver has made 3 attempts. They will not give me the option of picking it up tonight.

I have heard that, at least in some areas, that the drivers for FedEx are independent contractors, so they probably get a bunch they have to deliver then return the ones they can't. It may also be a way to save time and labor reloading trucks. In San Antonio, I have never had an issues picking up a package after the first attempt.

[FKSSR]

Yeah, I was able to pick things up from FedEx when I lived in Jersey, but NYC is a whole other animal. There are probably just too many people here to allow them to pick things up like that.

In any case, I should have my keyboard in just a couple hours. I will, of course, post when I get it. :)

[FKSSR]

EliteKeyboards.com is great! I got my Filco today. It was packed well, sent well (FedEx is my most trusted despite the fact that they didn't leave the keyboard yesterday), and, even though it is just a piece of paper, the Proof of Purchase is a nice, professional touch. It's like getting a certificate at school. Yeah, it's just paper, but it feels important, if you really care about it. :)

I can't wait to order more from the site. Hopefully blank black keys or replacement white keys that fit my brown cherry board... Maybe a Filco with white alps, eventually.

[majestouch]

EliteKeyboards.com is great! I got my Filco today. It was packed well, sent well (FedEx is my most trusted despite the fact that they didn't leave the keyboard yesterday), and, even though it is just a piece of paper, the Proof of Purchase is a nice, professional touch. It's like getting a certificate at school. Yeah, it's just paper, but it feels important, if you really care about it.

Thank you for the praise FKSSR :)

I've been looking into the blank keys as either a separate item that you would then replace your existing keys with (geekhacker style) as opposed to just offering keyboards with all blank keys. What does everyone think?

1. Would you rather buy a board with stock lettered keycaps and replace with blanks yourself keeping the lettered caps for spares?

2. Or would you just want to buy a board with blanks already on it and dispense with the hassle and stock lettered keycaps altogether?

Of course for people with an existing board with lettered keys, having the ability to buy the blank keys is the only choice, but I am trying to get an idea how much demand there is for each since these are *not* regular order items.

[ozar]

I personally prefer to have the stock keys and have a set of blanks so that I can switch them around as desired.

[lal]

I'm with ozar there.

[FKSSR]

Same here. I prefer to have the option.

Thanks so much for your work in finding this stuff Majestouch. Does it look like you'll be able to get blank and white replacement keys, at this point?

[ripster]

Me to.

I am gaving a lof of fun wigh me blamk key Unicimp.

- Ripster

[o2dazone]

I would also prefer to have a set of blanks
Edit: I've already said this before, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who would not object to putting a "down payment" on something special order such as blank key caps, just to get the ball rolling

Also any word on the Filco armrests? I'm about to build one similar to an hhkb, but if the Filco ones work out, I'll go that way

[ripster]

I'm not the only one who would object to putting a "down payment" on something special order

Did you mean object or not object? I don't mean to be objectionable but I just want to make sure I understand you correctly.

- Ripster

[lam47]

Sorry to be off topic I just want to thank Lal for the awesome hyper link work in his sig!
Very cool.

[o2dazone]

ooops I mean not object lol yeah..fixed

[SUPER432]

I would buy a few sets (2-4) of blank keycaps if available. Always nice to have spares!

[itlnstln]

I would like to get both blank and lettered keycaps myself.

[iMav]

seeing the blank keycaps available as a separate addon purchase would be my preference as well.

[ripster]

Anybody notice the new goodies on Majestouch's site?

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?lang=en

Now don't go whining at him about blue cherries or red esc keys please.

- Ripster

[karlito]

NO WAY! the wrist wrest... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm does anyone have one/tried one?

EDIT: ack just read the description 18mm high :(. my current wrest is 13mm and that's perfect... hmm i wonder if it would work... since one part is 13 and the other is 18... maybe i wouldnt notice the 18mm part? My current wrest is a memory form w/ some crappy spandex cover that has snagged threads that poke me... it's in need of replacement.

[webwit]

Personally I don't like styled WASD keys (I'm not a gamer nor do I want to make my precious keyboards look like gaming boards), but bravo for offering this set for a SANE price.

[lam47]

Now I am going to have to have those keys!

[webwit]

Perhaps it's a good idea to first get the board.

[cchan]

Hmm will the wasd keys fit a g80-3000 and be compatible in terms of key height and slope?

[itlnstln]

Yes. The G80 keys will fit on the Filco, too FWIW.

[FKSSR]

I saw the wrist rests and wasd keys a couple days ago on the site, but I'm afraid I'm not interested in either. I've never had any problem finding the wasd keys, especially since, in FPS games, my fingers rest there all the time. Perhaps I don't play the "right" games, but I'm not sure why someone would need the blue wasd keys (besides the look, which is fine).

I'm very happy with my foam wrist rest. I like the look of the Filco rests a lot, but I'm afraid they would heat up pretty quick after my wrists have been on them very long and maybe get sweaty from my hands... :)

I will be ordering blank and white replacement keys from EliteKeyboards, though, if they come in!

[ripster]

Perhaps it's a good idea to first get the board

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Ahhh, don't be a party pooper.

Ok, for you Das 3 guys after gaining a lot of experience key pulling with my black key Unicomp Spacesaver mod I was brave enough to try the Das/Filco keys switch again.

The Filcos do seat on the Das - there's no satisfying click as is seats for some reason but it does work. No guarantees though.

- Ripster

[twolf]

A series of events recently led me to this board where I read a lot about these FILCO keyboards. I had never heard of n-key rollover and my curiosity was seriously sparked. I decided to order a FKBN104M/EB on Monday from EliteKeyboards. Here it is Thursday afternoon half way across the country from the west coast in Kansas and I am already typing on my new FILCO. What great service. So far I am very happy with the keyboard as well. The n-key rollover is cool. My bank account will probably start to suffer from me finding this message board. :-)

[ozar]

A series of events recently led me to this board where I read a lot about these FILCO keyboards. I had never heard of n-key rollover and my curiosity was seriously sparked. I decided to order a FKBN104M/EB on Monday from EliteKeyboards. Here it is Thursday afternoon half way across the country from the west coast in Kansas and I am already typing on my new FILCO. What great service. So far I am very happy with the keyboard as well. The n-key rollover is cool. My bank account will probably start to suffer from me finding this message board. :-)
Welcome to the forums... and glad you are having fun with the new Filco! :cool:

[rdjack21]

A series of events recently led me to this board where I read a lot about these FILCO keyboards. I had never heard of n-key rollover and my curiosity was seriously sparked. I decided to order a FKBN104M/EB on Monday from EliteKeyboards. Here it is Thursday afternoon half way across the country from the west coast in Kansas and I am already typing on my new FILCO. What great service. So far I am very happy with the keyboard as well. The n-key rollover is cool. My bank account will probably start to suffer from me finding this message board. :-)

Welcome to GeekHack!

Your wallet will suffer from finding this forum. Mine has gotten considerably thinner but I'm also having a blast :)

[lam47]

Perhaps it's a good idea to first get the board.

For my cherry boards. The ones in my sig.

[o2dazone]

I saw the wrist rests and wasd keys a couple days ago on the site, but I'm afraid I'm not interested in either. I've never had any problem finding the wasd keys, especially since, in FPS games, my fingers rest there all the time. Perhaps I don't play the "right" games, but I'm not sure why someone would need the blue wasd keys (besides the look, which is fine).

I'm very happy with my foam wrist rest. I like the look of the Filco rests a lot, but I'm afraid they would heat up pretty quick after my wrists have been on them very long and maybe get sweaty from my hands... :)

I will be ordering blank and white replacement keys from EliteKeyboards, though, if they come in!

I feel the same exact way as you (except for the wrist rest portion, I don't currently use one). As much as I'd like those blue keys (because they look stunning amongst all the black), I would prefer a blank set much more, two sets in fact, for my g80 3000. It's a real shame too...I almost feel obligated to buy more goods from Elitekeyboards just to keep Filcos in the states. I'll make up for it two fold when those caps come in :D Anyone have a review on the wrist rest?

[FKSSR]

I definitely want to keep supporting EliteKeyboards. As it stands, I'm ready to purchase a Filco Zero with White XM switches, a set of blank keys, and a set of white keys. I would even buy the WASD keys to add to the order, since it would only be $7.50 more. I could use the A, at least (the most important key in StarCraft). :)

[bhtooefr]

FWIW, the spelling is lavender, not lavendar. :)

[majestouch]

I feel the same exact way as you (except for the wrist rest portion, I don't currently use one). As much as I'd like those blue keys (because they look stunning amongst all the black), I would prefer a blank set much more, two sets in fact, for my g80 3000. It's a real shame too...I almost feel obligated to buy more goods from Elitekeyboards just to keep Filcos in the states. I'll make up for it two fold when those caps come in Anyone have a review on the wrist rest?

I definitely want to keep supporting EliteKeyboards. As it stands, I'm ready to purchase a Filco Zero with White XM switches, a set of blank keys, and a set of white keys. I would even buy the WASD keys to add to the order, since it would only be $7.50 more. I could use the A, at least (the most important key in StarCraft).

You guys are too nice :) Palm rests have sold, so maybe someone around here has one they'd like to review...

FWIW, the spelling is lavender, not lavendar.

Thanks :) A forward slash killed my spell checker! Then again, it's not a word I use often either unless I'm talking about my lavender suit or my lavender car...I know...excuses, excuses...

[vivaibmspacesaver84]

I bought your majestouch tenkeyless keyboard that have "Cherry MX blue switch".

This keyboard suffered from chattering and broke in only three month.

I have your majestouch keyboard that have "Cherry MX brown switch".

This keyboard suffered from chattering in a few days, too.

You should right now investigate the cause of the chattering of "majestouch keyboard", and open it to the public to the owners.

You should apologize to the user in Japan.

[lal]

User "majestouch" is not Diatech, he/she is just the only US distributor.

[itlnstln]

Man, hostile. You would have thought someone poisoned the local water supply, or something.

[vivaibmspacesaver84]

User "majestouch" is not Diatech, he/she is just the only US distributor.

exactly

thanks

[iMav]

First off, welcome to geekhack vivaibmspacesaver84!

Members here are right in that user "majestouch" is a reseller of Filco keyboards in the USA. You did not purchase your keyboards from him, so he is not responsible in any way for you issues.

However, I believe all of us would like to know some additional details regarding this issues you've had. I, personally, have owned both the brown and blue Cherry tenkeyless 'boards and had zero issues with them.

Can you explain what you mean by "chattering"?

[kyamei]

exactly

thanks

Exactly? He is nothing more than a retailer. He has no control over the products themselves. Nor does he have any reason to apologize to Japanese Filco owners as he has no presence in Japan.

No one here has reported those issues with Filco boards either, so I am pretty doubtful that its a widespread issue with Filco boards.

EDIT: beaten to the punch. But I was also wondering what "chattering" meant.

[lam47]

I want to know what chattering is supposed to mean as well.
Its on the back of the box for the realforce and the HH.
No chattering over 30 million times.
Do what?

[vivaibmspacesaver84]

Nice to meet you.

I thought that anybody knew "Chattering".

"Chattring" is the famous keyboard trouble in japan.

see example movie, this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=JP&hl=ja&v=O-p2BJA3rng
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=BOvv1l0H_to&feature=related

Temporary evasion program of chattering.
"ccchattttter" (http://www.jeroblo.com/files/ccchattttter1043.zip)

[iMav]

No "chattering" issues here with my blue Cherry-equipped tenkeyless. I would definitely return your 'board(s) if you are seeing this issue with them. That is unacceptable.

[vivaibmspacesaver84]

Yes. This problem cannot be overlooked.

Moreover, I think the export of such a product to be shame of Japan.

I have eight keyboards (six majestouch tenkeyless keyboards and two majestouch full keyboards). And, I want to be inspecting the quality by mine in future if there is a chance.

[FKSSR]

Thanks for cluing us in on this, vivaibmspacesaver84.

EliteKeyboards (and member 'majestouch') is in the clear, here, as people have said, but it is still definitely an issue that should be looked into (speaking rhetorically towards Diatech and about GeekHackers as the inquisitive types we are). Hopefully other people here will now be on the look out for this issue and post if it is found in our boards.

[iMav]

I have eight keyboards (six majestouch tenkeyless keyboards and two majestouch full keyboards). And, I want to be inspecting the quality by mine in future if there is a chance.
Just out of curiousity...with such bad luck with these keyboards, why did you purchase EIGHT of them???

[vivaibmspacesaver84]

Dear iMav.

I bought it as a reserve.
This is inventory.

tenkeyless brown switch model x 2
tenkeyless black switch model x 2
tenkeyless blue switch model x 2 (chattering x 1)
full black switch model x 1 (not chattering)
full brown switch model x 1 (chattering)

[itlnstln]

What was that Mac ad about switching several years back? I think I would have done it if I had that many problems.

[ripster]

Don't everybody go jumping over Viva - it's clearly an issue to some people. Photography is another hobby of mine and whenever there is a new Nikon or Canon there is always some obscure issue that comes up.

Think how many keystrokes this forum has expended on Nkeyrollover when I'm still not convinced it's an issue in real life - i.e. you really think that typo was a nkey issue? I was in technology marketing and Nkey is something that sounds like it came first from the marketing department.

I just checked my Filco Tenkeyless and Realforce and didn't see the chattering.

So it may exist - whether it's important or not is something you should check out for yourself. Those youtubers were really thwacking the keys so it may be a key bounce issue.

At least now I know why the "no chattering over 30 million times" thing is on the Topre box.

- Ripster

[vivaibmspacesaver84]

Dear FKSSR

Yes. EliteKeyboards is in the clear.
I sincerely wish the problem to be clarified.

[o2dazone]

Damn...after seeing this thread grow the way it did over night, I was hoping there'd be an update on blank keycaps LOL :x

[twolf]

I have only been using my Filco FKBN104M/EB for about 4 days and haven't seen this issue. I do notice that it will start to repeat characters when I hold a key down much faster than other keyboards. I actually like this as I spend a lot of time editing text files with vi, and it makes navigation through a text file faster. I do have to be careful not to linger on a key press though, as it will start to repeat rather quickly. I am really happy with the Filco so far.

[o2dazone]

The term for that is called 'typematic delay' :) It can be controlled by software too, but yeah I have the same board as you and notice it. I agree, it's great for jumping around lines while coding/programming

[itlnstln]

The term for that is called 'typematic delay' :) It can be controlled by software too, but yeah I have the same board as you and notice it. I agree, it's great for jumping around lines while coding/programming

With that in mind, I wonder if "chattering" could be caused by slower typing/typers. One of the YouTube video's typers seemed to be typing kind of slow which might exacerbate the problem.

[lam47]

Thats a good point.
In my bios I can chose to use the software delay or the controller in the board.
Anyone want to check and see if they can do a test?

[majestouch]

"Chattering" aka "contact bouncing" is a common problem with ALL mechanical switches. This is not a keyboard problem and it is not a unique DIATEC FILCO problem or in any way indicative of problems with quality control or engineering practices by DIATEC.

Bouncing/chattering is not a problem that would effect the entire output of a keyboard; rather, it would only effect the problem switch when the following condition occurs:

Contact Bounce Time > Key Sample Rate (typematic delay setting)

So this would occur if the switch is 1. A manufacturing defect, or 2. Broken.

More information about mechanical switch bouncing/chatter and the hardware and software methods that engineers use to combat it can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch#Contact_bounce

another good page:

http://www.elexp.com/t_bounc.htm

In the case of FILCO keyboards, this problem means that one of the Cherry switches is defective/broken and needs to be replaced. If you purchased your keyboard in Japan with a warranty, then Diatec will repair or replace it for you. If you have a warranty from EliteKeyboards in the US or Canada then you are also covered. If you *do not* have a warranty from EliteKeyboards, then you can A. Ask EliteKeyboards to quote you for a repair, B. Buy a new Cherry switch for the effected key and pull out your soldering iron.

I'll also note that keyboards sold by EliteKeyboards.com are given additional testing before being exported from Japan and so it would be a very rare occurrence that a keyboard purchased from Elitekeyboards.com would be delivered with a problem switch. If anything, this testing should be the PRIDE of Japan.

[lam47]

Very nice reply!

[itlnstln]

"Chattering" aka "contact bouncing" is a common problem with ALL mechanical switches. This is not a keyboard problem and it is not a unique DIATEC FILCO problem or in any way indicative of problems with quality control or engineering practices by DIATEC.

Bouncing/chattering is not a problem that would effect the entire output of a keyboard; rather, it would only effect the problem switch when the following condition occurs:

Contact Bounce Time > Key Sample Rate (typematic delay setting)

So this would occur if the switch is 1. A manufacturing defect, or 2. Broken.

More information about mechanical switch bouncing/chatter and the hardware and software methods that engineers use to combat it can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch#Contact_bounce

another good page:

http://www.elexp.com/t_bounc.htm

In the case of FILCO keyboards, this problem means that one of the Cherry switches is defective/broken and needs to be replaced. If you purchased your keyboard in Japan with a warranty, then Diatec will repair or replace it for your. If you have a warranty from EliteKeyboards in the US or Canada then you are also covered. If you *do not* have a warranty from EliteKeyboards, then you can A. Ask EliteKeyboards to quote you for a repair, B. Buy a new Cherry switch for the effected key and pull out your soldering iron.

I'll also note that keyboards sold by EliteKeyboards.com are given additional testing before being exported from Japan and so it would be a very rare occurrence that a keyboard purchased from Elitekeyboards.com would be delivered with a problem switch. If anything, this testing should be the PRIDE of Japan.

Strong work, majestouch. I learned something new today.


And knowing is half the battle...

[ripster]

Those youtubers were really thwacking the keys so it may be a key bounce issue.

It's getting bad when I start quoting myself but I'm patting myself on the back for a lucky guess.

I learned something though - I thought for sure Topre's "no chattering over 30 million times" was a bad translation, kinda like, "Good feeling of oneness with cup rubber".
- Ripster

[itlnstln]

"Good feeling of oneness with cup rubber".

This sounds more like an ad for a jock strap, push-up bra or breast implants than a keyboard.

[ozar]

The following little segment out of this ad (http://www.ergogeek.com/btc-emprex-5139-mini-space-saving-keyboard-usb.html) is one of my favorites:

it provides an ideal space saving solution from being erected by the legs device

Maybe it's just me, but I personally enjoy being erected by the legs device. :p

[itlnstln]

The following little segment out of this ad (http://www.ergogeek.com/btc-emprex-5139-mini-space-saving-keyboard-usb.html) is one of my favorites:



Maybe it's just me, but I personally enjoy being erected by the legs device. :p

Strong.

[lam47]

I still think my favourite is the Chinese to English translation which makes, Entire universe invincible manually open axis device. Though I suspect a hint of silliness may have been intended.

[itlnstln]

I still think my favourite is the Chinese to English translation which makes, Entire universe invincible manually open axis device. Though I suspect a hint of silliness may have been intended.

This is classic.

[vivaibmspacesaver84]

I wish to express my gratitude for "user majestouch" answer.

It is good that "user majestouch" does an additional test to "majestouch keyboard".

"user majestouch" defends his customers. This is very good.

Doing "user majestouch" might change the posture of FILCO and DIATEC.

however,

>> "Chattering" aka "contact bouncing" is a common problem with ALL mechanical switches.

This was a longtime cliche of FILCO and DIATEC.

There is no smoke without fire.

FILCO and DIATEC have evaded the effort to raise the quality of product.

I warn that the attention of "Majestouch keyboard" should not be neglected.

[majestouch]

So much for the noise, now on to the toys! ...err, tools I meant!

I will be offering a limited quantity of Tenkeyless FILCO boards using Blue Cherry switches next month around this time. If you're a member of my mailing list I will send an update to you FIRST when I start accepting orders (Probably a day in advance to give you fair warning.)

This is an EliteKeyboards Exclusive, these are not available anywhere else! Add yourself to the mailing list at elitekeyboards.com (http://elitekeyboards.com).

[ozar]

Thanks for the alert... I'm sure it will generate some interest! :cool:

[Viett]

So much for the noise, now on to the toys! ...err, tools I meant!

I will be offering a limited quantity of Tenkeyless FILCO boards using Blue Cherry switches next month around this time. If you're a member of my mailing list I will send an update to you FIRST when I start accepting orders (Probably a day in advance to give you fair warning.)

This is an EliteKeyboards Exclusive, these are not available anywhere else! Add yourself to the mailing list at elitekeyboards.com (http://elitekeyboards.com).

That is great! I look forward to ordering one. I added my email to the list when your site first went up, I hope it's still there (I never got an email about the wrist wrests / WASD keys).

Will these be the NKRO models (FKBN87EC/EB)?

[FKSSR]

I will be offering a limited quantity of Tenkeyless FILCO boards using Blue Cherry switches next month around this time.

Sweet. I think I'm going to have to order one to see how I like the blue cherries in a Filco board, compared to the G80-3000 I didn't particularly care for. I guess that if I don't like it I can sell it for pretty much the same amount, since it will be a limited quantity order. :P

[itlnstln]

Majestouch is the man.


That's all.