Microsoft SMB Community Blog

Excellent blog!

Very good ilustration about the licenses. Just a question:

Windows Vista OEM + Windows 7 Upgrade = ?

Windows Vista OEM + Windows 7 OEM = ?

Thanks beforehand.

The reason people want to do a clean install of the operating system with an upgrade disk is because the cost of the full product is too expensive, especially in this economy, and this is the way people show it.

Consider this:  I have an XP full license.  I have a Vista business upgrade License.  I bought an anytime upgrade to Vista Ultimate.  

Vista business refuses to install unless it finds an operating system to upgrade if I enter my upgrade key.  If I do not enter my upgrade key it will install as a time limited trial. Which then has to be upgraded to Vista business then the anytime upgrade to ultimate can be performed.  Just how much time do you think this process takes?

Another case:  User bought a pc from hp or gateway. no cd/dvd supplied for the operating system- he read the book and burned himself a recovery disk.  His hard drive dies.  His recovery disk will not work (does anyone test these) - He hires me to install a new hard drive and make his pc functional, and has previously purchased an upograde to Vista or 7. I am not going to make more than one trip over this - will just use the hack as that is why I believe it works in the first place.  But it is a disservice to your customers to make them pay me to do two installs of one operating system.

This subject seems to get repeated so often that it is annoying to I.T. professionals, and continues to be ignored by those who feel justified in stealing whatever software they can.  There is one variation that I have never seen adequately addressed.  When taking over new customers, I frequently find that they are using various “home” versions of XP or Vista.  Since Microsoft has discontinued the Home version as a valid license for the volume license upgrade, there is no clean path to cleanup these customers licenses.   Retail licenses are too cumbersome and customers will lose their documentation of ownership.  The software desk of one or my distributors recently recommended purchasing OEM licenses and “Re-purposing” the computers. While this is technically feasible, I have never seen this mentioned in any Microsoft communication, maybe it is buried somewhere in the license agreement, but I haven’t seen it.

Eric, I had no question, just a complaint about no way to avoid doing multiple installs, fyi as far as "clean installs" go during the anytime upgrade to ultimate, it offers the option to format the disk which results in a "clean install" (Clean refering to non in-place upgrade).  Prior to Vista one could satisfy the install program by supplying the older product media - it did not need an installed operating system, hence one did not need to do multiple installs.

I am still confused about the Windows 7 licenses (10 Pro and 1 Ultimate) included in the Microsoft Action Pack.  As I understand it, these are Volume Licenses, and as such they can only be used like an upgrade, meaning they still require a qualifying OEM license.  Is this true?  Also, and most importantly, if my previous statement is correct, I realize that home OEM versions are not eligible, such as XP Home or Vista Home Premium.  I have found *nothing* on whether or not XP Media Center Edition is a "qualifying" OEM license that can be upgraded to Windows 7 Pro.  Can you please answer these questions?  I can't find the answers ANYWHERE.  A blog post specifically about the Windows 7 action pack licenses and possible upgrade paths would be ever so helpful.

I very much appreciate the "hack" to enable a clean install of the upgrade media.  This is because I don't want to have to keep dragging my obsolete Vista installation media around for the next 5 years!

Yes, some people will abuse this to get a cheaper Windows 7... but the number of people out there who do not already own a previous copy of windows must be an incredibly small portion of the user base to begin with.  Is this really an issue?!

I used the hacky registry, rearm trick for my upgrade install since I replaced the hard drive in my laptop before doing the install. So yes I have a license but nothing installed on the drive. So hacking the install is the only way to use my legal upgrade media and license key. The fact that we have to go through the workaround process just points out how broken the upgrade install process is. What happens when a hard drive, that previously had XP or Vista installed, dies and someone needs to do a fresh install and they put the dvd in and expect it to work?

Microsoft will not answer this question even after many attempts.  The first sales doctrine states that I have the right to sell my OEM version of software.  The person that repurchases the OEM software is entitled to full use as the original purchaser.  However, Microsoft denies that persons use of the software by forbidding updates and reducing functionality.  Example; I sell an OEM version of XP pro to Jack and then he purchases a Windows 7 pro upgrade.  Jack installs Windows 7, is this legal or illegal?  I wager you will ignore this post just as Microsoft has in my many attempts.

Eric,

Thanks for all the info.  I just want to make sure I'm legally "in the clear" before I jump into Windows 7.

I had a fully licensed retail version of Windows 98.

I bought Upgrade media to get XP.

I bought Upgrade media to get Vista.

Obviously, I've completely upgraded my PC in this time, but have only ever applied these licenses to one PC at a time, sometimes with a call to Microsoft to 'release' my product key to install it on my upgraded PC.

With Vista specifically, I had to perform the double-install hack, which I assume is legit in my case.

I no longer have my old Windows 98 and XP discs, or for that matter, any "proof" of these licenses (stickers, product keys, etc.)

Am I licensed to install Upgrade media of Windows 7?

I know you said that as long as I have a FULL Windows license, then I'm safe... but my only FULL license is from Windows 98, and I can no longer provide proof of that license.

Thanks!

The reason this 'hack' is popular in the first place, is that it saves people some $80-$100 Depending on the version you buy) from the cost of the full retail version of Windows 7.

and since we're in a recession, why wouldn't Microsoft make a gesture of good faith, by rewarding savvy computer users who can pull off the hack, with this $80-$100 discount.

Its sounds like good PR to me, but i am just a savvy computer user, not a PR guy.

Have a good day

Actually, in Germany I wonder whether anyone will buy an upgrade. OEM licenses can be bought at a fraction of the cost at Amazon (like 75 Euro compared to 120 Euro for an upgrade).

PS: I also commented about OEM licenses you can buy in Germany at Amazon yesterday on the post about transfer rights of OEM. Could you please aprove of that comment and also answer the question I posed there? Or are you trying to keep discussion of OEM licenses that are sold to end consumers of the blog?!? Let me tell ya, that would be silly and these kinds of things normally backfire :)

Solution would be to be asked for two productkeys.

The Windows 7 upgrade key AND the key of the original qualifying Version !

I recently bought vista with free upgrade to win7 and now I want to change harddisk.

So I want a clean install WITHOUT preinstalling vista.

I think the upgrade setup phase should be in this way:

1) Ask the Windows 7 ProductKey

2) If it's an Upgrade Key, ask for an XP / Vista ProductKey

3) If it's a valid Vista / XP ProductKey (not in a blacklist), proceed to setup also if there is nothing in the hard drive.

What do you think?

Why does Microsoft treat everyone like criminals and intentionally make everyone jump through hoops to install/upgrade their software? Come on.

Paul Thurrott is correct in his October 29 post on WinSuperSite.com by calling out Microsoft's lack of attention to a huge problem in upgrade media installation. There's no reason not to include this "hack" in your documentation.

Microsoft has a hit with Windows 7 no matter how you look at it, but if you want to keep hitting home runs, you need to give your customers the benefit of your doubts.

I have to say, requiring the previous version of Windows to be installed on the hard drive before being allowed to install Windows 7 Upgrade was a horrible idea. If I have a need to reinstall Windows 7, perhaps because of a new hard drive or hard drive problem, I don't want to sit through an install of Vista first.

I pretty much agree with Licantrop0's recommendation.

I'd rather see Microsoft posting about when they are going to FIX the activation bug, that will truly allow people to avoid need for any "hacks".

My scenario is simple, I have fully licensed Vista on my computer which I have been using for several years. I purchased upgrade license, but prefer a clean install. So I also purchased SECOND hard-drive, and clean-installed on it.

Vista is still there on the other disk, and in fact works just as good as before, via dual boot.

YET when I went to activate my Win 7, it Failed because I "clean installed and not upgraded".

WHAT GIVES?! If not for hack, we would be Stuck with nothing, even after spending the big bucks to properly purchase both Vista and Win 7!!!

Where the confusion is arising, and where people are getting burned, requiring them to perform this hack is when they have a new hard drive, or a catastrophic failure and require a new hard drive.  In those cases, they can either do the hack, or go through the laborious process of installing XP or Vista first, then upgrade to 7.  This is especially troublesome when they have an OEM install and they are installing on the same computer, just different hard drive.  Most OEM's don't supply restore disks, and certainly most users don't create them.

Get over it, there are only 3 people on the whole planet who will want to install 7 on a machine without previously owning a prior version of windows for that machine. And, even if someone were building a new machine, the OEM version is the same price so what's the problem? You should have found something more productive to do with your time because anyone smart enough to install windows would know all of the legalities involved.

If Microsoft had provided a clean way to do a "clean" install (like it used to do in the past - requiring an original CD) then this hack wouldn't be needed. Some people actually find doing a clean install preferable to an in place upgrade. This isn't about cheating Microsoft, it's about setting up your system in the most optimum means possible; many ARE NOT convinced that an in-place upgrade will achive this means.

Give me a break. Nearly everyone who owns a computer has a valid previous-version Windows license (it's difficult to get a PC without Windows on it). This is about getting a clean new installation, doing a true wipe/reinstall, which many of us prefer to do every time we upgrade to a new operating system. This is about the fact that you intentionally crippled the upgrade media to disallow the way that a huge number of people prefer to install their upgrades. This hack/workaround has nothing to do with pirating Windows. To the contrary, once again, you have made things harder on your real customers than it is for the pirates, who can just torrent full installation media in the first place.

Also, you say: “The ability to do a clean install was included back in the Vista days to allow consultants and IT pros to do clean installs from that media.” This sounds more like the 95-to-XP days. With Vista and 7, you have intentionally made it difficult to do a clean install. Hence, the hacks.

Give me a break, how many people really don't have any qualifying verion of windows to upgrade? Really? Wouldn't you want to give those people a deal anyway since they are the tiny minority moving from Mac or Linux?

The stupid part is that they have different prices. Just make it the same price - upgrade or not - and avoid the hassle. This kind of bad PR will cost MS far more money than will ever be recovered trying to charge people more $ with some silly scheme.

Just to add to Robert Teague's post, I'm still on XP, which is a valid Windows version for an "upgrade", and yet I can't do an in-place upgrade (nor would I). On top of that, I want to be able to boot to the Upgrade disc, select "Custom Install", *format* my drive and install Win7, completely wiping out my current XP install *and* have Win7 activate properly (as it should). This is a true "clean" install, and should not require the use of any "hacks", but unfortunately it sounds like for some this is exactly what they have to do. I'd love to hear a definitive answer to the contrary (that my method above would work, 100%), but I haven't seen it.

I recently brought an HP computer that has Vista Home Premium pre-installed, I want to replace the current hard drive with a large drive I purchased and do a clean install of Windows 7 with the windows 7 upgrade CD I recieved from Microsoft. Would this be ok to do? or Do I need to first reinstall Vista on the new drive then upgrade to Windows 7 using the upgrade cd?

The disservice here is that Microsoft screws the unfortunate sole whose drive crashes after they've installed Windows 7 upgrade.  So now they must install the prior version they legally owned so they can install the legally purchased upgrade on the new drive.  Let's hope they're technical; otherwise, they'll be paying nearly full retail prices just to have an OS they already own reinstalled.

I upgraded my kids' PC with Home Premium upgrade.  I started the install in Vista and did a clean install by choosing the option to replace rather than upgrade (produces windows.old).  Let's supposed the drive crashes.  Will I be able to activate a second time, in a situation like this, without having to install the prior version?  MS should already have a record that the product key has been authenticated/activated.  If it passed the first time and is being installed on the same machine (I believe drive isn't the only hardware used to determine same machine), shouldn't it activate without all this work?

For what it's worth, as a Vista Ultimate user on my primary machine, I still feel pretty burned by the useless Ultimate version.  DreamScene and a poker game don't quite make the premium investment worth it.  Then I get virtually no discount to upgrade to Windows 7 Ultimate.

Hello,

I ordered my Upgrade-Kit already in August. I had problems with my pre-installed Vista OS and formated my computer.Am I allowed to do a clean install of Windows 7? I don't have a recovery-disk (it was empty...) but I have a Vista license.

Thanks,

Timmy

The currant upgrade media allows for a clean install. No hack is involved use the Custom Install>Advanced>select partition>format C drive> do clean install.

I assume you can do a backup if your reading this blog.

Was my copy altered?

Did I just get lucky?

Am I the only person who was able to do this.

I have a qualifying full license and purchase an upgrade.  I wipe the disk, and install.  The install fails because it never asks for proof of a full license.

I am not doing anything outside the scope of the license agreement, yet I am locked out.

This is what people are having trouble with.

You do not address this scenario.

@Eric

A question I got was a "what if" and I think its an important one.

What happens if your computer has a hard drive failure and although legally and ethically you are entitled to use the upgrade version, you will need yo do a clean install on a blank drive with the upgrade media.

Does Microsoft have a way of knowing your computer has had a legal copy of the previous version of Windows on it to at least allow activation via a phone call or is that person "stuck" buying a full copy of 7?

This I believe was a large part of the motivation behind the "hack" that was published. I for one pay for my software and don't condone piracy but fair is fair. If you had a legal copy of Windows on that computer you are entitled to the upgrade pricing.

Thanks for your post,its a hot button topic right now. More input from Microsoft up front would be a service to its loyal customers.

Right after I did the clean install over my vista using Windows 7 Premium upgrade, I did full image backup of my harddisk using the backup feature included in Windows 7 and burned it to a single double-layer DVD. So, there is my clean install for future. I can just restore my harddisk to initial state anytime I want with the backup disk now. Well, it won't do any good if you buy a new computer and you want to install your copy of Windows 7 on that but how many computer would you change in that period anyway?

I perfectly understand the article, and what is and is not legal.  However, I am quite confused by the actual procedure.  Here is my scenario:  I have OEM Vista Ultimate.  I ordered Home Premium 7 Upgrade and a new hard drive.  I plan to remove my C drive, put in the new one, install Windows 7, and after it's happy, format the old drive (and of course if it is not happy, fall back to it).

So what process would I use to install Windows 7 without having to perform two O/S installs?  My assumption was that it would at some point prompt for my Vista OEM disk, but based on comments here, it doesn't seem like that is the case.  So now I'm confused.  Do I need to search the web for a "hack"?  I would hope not.

I really don't think any of the posts I've seen about the Windows 7 upgrade clean install hack have encouraged people to unlawfully buy the upgrade version rather than the full. They simply have provided necessary instruction on how to save time and effort while installing 7. I simply wish Microsoft had done the right thing here and provided a rational way to clean install 7 using upgrade media. Maybe they will do so in "8" but I doubt it.

And this is one of those times.  Clearly Microsoft is legally correct, but loses so much goodwill by pressing the issue.  

They should take a look at Apple's OS upgrade policies and pricing - built on more trust of the customer.

Almost every PC sold comes with a Windows license and thus are entitled to upgrades.  Forcing the loyal XP user to go thru hoops to do a clean install is silly.

With an easier upgrade process, Microsoft would likely see increased revenues from additional sales, even as a few customers may cheat them.  

The juice isn't worth the squeeze!

If theres a problem with upgrade licenses, you shouldn't sell upgrades. Once someone pays thier hard earn cash for a product, they own it and can do whatever they want. I know you're gonna disagree, but thats my opinion.  Windows 7 full version is too dam expensive. And since you're so smart and telling us what the EULA says,  what does the EULA say about MS selling us that POS Vista? Don't you owe us a refund?  Anywho, thank you're lucky stars people are buying the upgrade version at all, after that mess Vista.  I mean come on, it could be worst, people could get the cracked version from one of the file sharing sites for free. (name of site ommitted)

It's technically possible to clean install Windows 7 using the upgrade media. It's illegal to install Windows 7 by using Windows 7 upgrade media if you have the license of previous version of Windows such as Windows XP. I got it. What if I do have the license of the previous version of Windows? If my desktop PC was shipped with the preinstalled (OEM) Windows Vista, yet I choose to do the custom (clean) install? Is my action considered illegal? Am I still licensed to nothing? I wonder if the EULA really forbids me to do the custom install even if I do own the license of previous version of Windows?

I don't care whether its legal or illegal . If I can install it and it works ? Thats all that matter to me . You can call me a thief or whatever . The way I see it so is MS with their high prices . They steal from us , we steal back ... Plain and simple

Let me get this straight: you condemn the people who post these "fixes", yet you create a TOTALLY unrealistic means of doing an "upgrade".  While I've gotten by with Vista, I wanted to be able to go to a 64bit OS, and decided to do so with Windows 7.  Since my Dell came with only a 500GB hard drive, I thought it would also be a good time to upgrade to a 1TB drive.  

So... how exactly am I to do this... care to offer a reasonable procedure?????

Eric,

I think you are dodging the issue that various posters have brought up in this thread. Microsoft has not provided a simple documented mechanism for installing an "upgrade" *with a valid license* on a clean hard disk. Simply saying that it is alright to use the "clean install" method if you own a valid license does nothing to solve that issue. People are still forced to use a dodgy hack to circumvent the problem that Microsoft has created by not providing a properly documented and approved mechanism. In doing so, your company has put users, and in may cases paying customers, at increased risk, since this has now become a trending topic and is as such a perfect target for malware authors and shady website operators.

Do your customers, especially the countless technicians that work with your software on a daily basis, a huge favor and provide a proper solution. Coming out and making statements about "licensing rights" simply overlooks the larger problem and makes you seem inconsiderate.

There's be no need for this if upgrade meant just that in the software sense instead of just the licensing sense. The unit is basically doing a clean install from XP anyhow, might as well make it official.

Should have just been an app to put a hash on a USB key to validate your upgrade from XP for a clean media install to seven (or whatever technical miracle works)

Jeebus, you may be right on this, but could you sound any more self-righteous? How about some understanding that a big segment of these problem installs seems not to be piracy, but a result of the brain-numbingly arcane morass of W7 versions, rules, user hardware, and bum MS documentation.

Don't ask your customers to be conscientious if you can't be that yourself.

You guys at Microsoft just don't get it.  These complicated licensing and product activation schemes are doing nothing to help your customers.  You're basically punishing people that are willing to pay for your product, while the pirates you're trying to keep out ALWAYS find a work-around for any anti-piracy method you come up with.

The fact is, the upgrade system should be just as simple as what Licantrop0 stated above:

1) Ask for the Windows 7 Product Key

2) If it's an upgrade Key, ask for an XP / Vista Product Key

3) If it's a valid Vista / XP Product Key (not in a blacklist), proceed to setup no matter what's on the hard-drive.

Thankfully, when I upgraded to Windows 7, I had a licensed copy of Vista already installed, and I had not problems doing a fresh install using the Custom (advanced) installation routine.  But what happens if later down the line my hard-drive crashes, and I have to reinstall from scratch?  (A recent interview with the Data Doctor on CNN said that 1 in 20 people will experience a catastrophic hard-drive crash this year.)

So when those 5% of us have a catastrophic hard-drive failure, and we have to reinstall Windows 7, do we have to install Windows Vista or XP first?  What about all of your customers who aren't computer savvy enough to know that, and they throw out their Windows Vista / XP installation discs because they figure they now have the latest and greatest in Windows 7?

If these upgrade, licensing, and activation systems weren't so convoluted, it wouldn't be so easy for Apple to make fun of them in their commercials.  It's almost enough to make someone switch.

Just a quick question: Isn't the hack made possible because people are allowed to format their partition by booting from the Upgrade media? Why not just disable this option in the Upgrade media? Of course you will then need to make it very clear on the packaging and product advertising that the Upgrade media needs to have a "running and activated qualifying OS" so that people don't buy it by mistake. Isn't that a much simpler solution?

Then WHY make it so difficult?

I mean, there could be a technical very very easy way to avoid the hassle, that current customers have to go through:

Instead of having a fully activated copy of XP or Vista installed, why not have users enter their old XP or Vista Serial during the activation process of Windows 7?

Instead you require users to first install XP which is a hassle.

I mean I am typing this from a fresh Win7 upgrade install. Fortunately I had XP installed and activated before. But there is no rescue partition anymore and I also don't have backup disks. If I ever want to reinstall Win7, I'll run into trouble.

A valid XP-key however is still printed on the bottom of the case.

Why let users run through this stupid process of installing an old version first????

Vista-OEM + Win7 Retail Upgrade Disk = what?

Win7 Retail, OR Win7 OEM?

BruceG

Nice work. Treating your customers like potential thieves is a sure way of winning them over to Win7. Who doesn't have a full version of Windows? This could only conceivably apply to someone who built there own computer, or is installing Windows on Mac. I would say both of those cases combined represent an infinitesimal portion of the market. Quit picking at nits and give kudos to the bloggers out there who are doing what MS should have done in the first place: make quick and transparent procedures for the clean install of Win7 using upgrade media.

I'm not a computer illiterate person, but this upgrade stuff is really confusing.

In June I ordered W7 home premium upgrade from Amazon,for one of my WinXP PRO upgrades. In the system requirements I did not see any specifics about version of XP.

I forgot about this order until last week when I was sent a notice that my W7 was mailed.

Then I decided to read about people's experiences.

On one techie web site (which I don't remeber now) I read a warning to people like me. Since I own winXP, I need to upgrade to W7-pro, I cannot upgrade to W7 home premium!! Is that right? Surprisingly, I could not find a definitive answer on this.

When I ordered, there was no information (at least to me) that xp-compatibility would not be available for w7 home premium---BUMMER

Also, I recently learned using NAS for backup is not supported in w7-HP another BUMMER.

Just because of these 3 concerns, I'm seriously considering to return the W7HP upgrade I've received.

Why do MS marketing guys has no clue about the chaos they create? Why make it so complicated just to milk corporates. Have two versions, personal and business. Do not cripple the personal ones, we also need XP compatibility, but we do not enjoy spending 200$ on an OS while twice that money can buy us a decent computer.

Really annoying, confusing and hard to figure out why this is happening the way it is.

Is it really that hard to come up with clear specs and licensing information?

BR

I think MinMe and Licantrop0 are on to something. Very simple solution; enter both product keys. For the love of God make it easier for people to do clean installs on newly purchased HDDs.  We're the people reason you make BILLIONS. Show a little appreciation. If you'd just make it easier to do then tricks wouldn't have to be posted on websites.

Hi Eric, you have the patience of a Saint! I bought my Laptop and Desktop new with XP Professional so I can purchase the Upgrade and be fully licensed, correct? Thanks….John

@ Mark Schneider - If I understand it correctly, you can do a clean install without a hack as long as you have a qualifying, activated product installed already.  Where the hack is needed is in situations like where your hard drive fails and you don't want to have to restore your entire backup to the replacement drive first, or if you are upgrading your hard drive at the same time and don't want to have to clone your old drive to the new one first.

I am failing to remember the last time a home user went through a license audit. Legalities dont matter much to most home users. Cant remember the last time I paid my microsoft tax. Thanks for the F-up, pirates everywhere love it.

Thanks for the 3rd-grade level post on software licensing. The 'hack' as you call should not even be required to do a clean install. If I currently own a PC that has Windows XP on it and I buy the upgrade, then I want to do a clean install of Windows 7. Period. Your software should allow a clean install from the upgrade media, the fact that it doesn't is ridiculous! Why don't you ask for a valid Windows XP or Vista CD product key during install and be done with it? Or some other well thought out validation scheme? Instead of harping on those that provide a work-around for you? Microsoft has 85% market share on the desktop, yet you continue to do a huge disservice to your customers in the way you market and manage your products. You have too many Windows 7 SKUs, your upgrade prices are prohibitivly high, your clean upgrade methods for regular users are non-existent, bit locker encryption and whole disk backups not available in all editions. Believe me, I like Windows 7, but sometimes I feel like Microsoft just doesn't get it, and never will. It leaves me scratching my head wondering which committee at Microsoft comes up with these things.

I don't no anyone that don't own a copy of Windows.I live in a house with 2 people and we own 5 or 6 licenses. The only way we knew how to do a clean install with upgrade media was with the hack.

You guys make the simplest things difficult and treat everyone like crooks.

Your more worried about the few that steal then the tens of Millions that buy your crap.

Who whats to do a in place upgrade? We've been asking how to do a clean install with the upgrade media for months. No freaking answers.

It would be easier if everyone could buy Family Pack. But there are some countries without that option. Why?? Thanks.

Hi Eric

I 'think' I am understanding you correctly.

What you are saying is that as long as you 'own' a license for a qualifying, previous version of Windows, that you can install an upgrade version of Windows 7, doing 'whatever' it takes to get it installed.

Is this correct?

Regards, Ron

Ed Bott and Paul Thurrott are not hacks, and it seems really clear that you are trying to call them ones.

They answered a popular question, namely "How do I upgrade my PC from Win2k, WinXP, or Windows Vista cleanly." With the new migration wizard that comes with Win7, there's no reason to upgrade from within an existing installation. By doing a clean install and migrating settings, you get a better, faster OS.  Microsoft dropped the ball by failing to explaining this, and Bott and Thurrott bailed you out.

You owe them an apology.

geesh people, do any of you read before you post?  if you own a valid full copy of windows xp, vista or 2000 you can use your upgrade version and perform a "custom install" without using any hack. The custom option allows you to competely format your HDD if your so inclined, or leave it intact an thereby save your files to windows.old folder so you can copy and paste them over to your new install documents, pictures ect... before deleting the windows.old folder to reclaim HD space. This is the same as a clean install.

I give you an example, My wifes Acer Aspier 1410 came with Vista 32bit , we upgraded to Win7 from the Acer free upgrade. We found the upgrade did not seem to have worked properly. We reinstalled Win 7 by formating the drive. but now the windows key does not work. How do we get this fix. Why is it that the consumer who is a MS Customer suffers.

Over the past several days there have been various posts, etc .......

Why not call it by its name? Paul Thurrot posted an article on how to circumvent upgrade media installation measures and abuse the upgrade media to install a clean copy.

His excuses? 'He helps millions of users'. And the fact that there is no upgrade from other releases than Vista.

Of course, those make it alright to post such information.

The guy is no longer any different from any other person deliberately hacking a product.

Pretty bad move Paul.

@BruceG

If you have purchased a Windows 7 Retail upgrade then you have a Retail version of Windows 7 period.

As far as I know there is no such beast as an OEM Upgrade. The Retail part means to have an entitlement to direct support from Microsoft and can move the licence to another PC if you wish to.

Frankly this whole Upgrade saga confirms that MS still has no clue when it comes to customer service or how to market OS upgrades to the public.

The assumption seems to be that customers are going to cheat the system rather than simply not understand the baroque licensing terms than MS imposes for upgrade installs.

Someone in MS should stand up and say "How about treating customers as if they are not all criminals for a change!"

Regards

Simon

Eric, you referenced back to your pretty pictures many times but have failed to address the major problem that "Joe the User" faces with a clean install with a wiped or new drive.

You say the hack cannot be used, so "Joe the User" has to spend an extra $100 to have someone install an old fully licensed copy first prior to installing windows 7 upgrade version.

You would have been better off by saying nothing. You are just giving MAC more for a new commercial.

Microsoft seems to be punishing some legitimate purchasers of its software by forcing them to use these hacks in order to clean install using upgrade media - even when the customers are legally entitled to use the upgrade media (e.g. they already have properly licences XP or Vista).

Microsoft, all you are doing here is creating bad feeling from your genuine customers. Maybe it's easier for you to scr*w over your genuine customers than it is for you to go after real softwaree pirates.

OK, I haven't read all the comments (I have more to do), but please have a look at this Microsoft page: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/get/upgrade-considerations.aspx

Under "Do I buy an Upgrade or Full license of Windows 7?"

It says: "All editions of Windows XP and Windows Vista qualify you to upgrade. So, if you're running either on your PC today, buy a package labeled "Upgrade".

Note **ALL**... not 'only full editions'!

& like others have said... who doesn't already have a license?

Microsoft's usual knee-jerk reaction: "You are presumed guilty, unless you can prove you are innocent!"

Arie Slob,

Microsoft MVP

Haha, how funy :D

Quote: "And please remember, No, OEM Microsoft Windows licenses cannot be transferred to another PC, in case you were wondering if an old OEM Windows license you have laying around or on another PC could qualify for the Windows 7 upgrade on a different PC."

That is quite wrong - in Germany you are LEGALLY (Decision of the German Bundesgerichtshof in 2000) allowed to transfer OEM licences to new PCs (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebraucht-Software)

:P

Nice job Microsoft. Take one of your biggest cheerleaders (Paul T.) and throw him under the bus for publishing technical information that we are all desperate for (how to perform a clean install from upgrade media) that Microsoft itself WILL NOT PROVIDE.

What's next?  Going to hunt down the 1 or 2 Windows Mobile fans out there and send a cease-and-desist letter to them?  

so, does a vista business licence qualify for an upgrade to windows 7 professional?

Microsoft, without this 'hack' how are people with a FULL legal license supposed to do a clean bare-metal installation? Please provide step-by-step instructions, as I have never seen them. If they don't exist, then what the heck is MS thinking ?!??

I had no problem doing a clean install with the HP upgrade, I dual boot with XP Pro and installed 'clean' to the partition where the W7 RC was. My question is: do I now have to delete my copy of XP?

Please indulge me with a specific question. I have a Dell PC with an OEM version of Windows XP Professional. Can I legally upgrade this PC with the Windows 7 Professional Upgrade SKU? Thanks.

Just about every PC ever made came with an OEM Windows install.  Therefore we all qualify for upgrade media.

I used a new drive to do my install using upgrade media. I was expecting to be prompted for my old XP disks to validate the upgrade media. I wasted quite a bit of time trying to get the upgrade to work until I discovered the workaround.  Let's not call this a hack. Let's  call it what it is a huge screw-up by Microsoft. Who the heck releases upgrade software that doesn't support installation to a new drive?

@Eric. You have very clearly explained the criteria to be ALLOWED to do a clean install.

I understand this, however you are yet to explain - OTHER THAN USING "HACK" - what is the official procedure to get the upgrade media to do a clean install on a bare drive.

You seem to be conveniently ignoring requests for this information.

I have a full vista licence so as you have stated am fully legal, yet want to install the upgrade on a new bigger hard drive bought especially for the occasion.

Paul T is a hero for publishing this information, I didn't enter the product key at the time of install and would have not have done so until just before the 30 days expiry period.

By then I would have wiped my old drive with my legal copy of vista on as I would have WRONGLY assumed by then everything had installed correctly.

What would I have done then? Bought the full version of Windows 7 so I could install all over? Maybe that's what Microsoft if hoping for!!

ERIC I ASK YOU AGAIN TO PUBLISH THE OFFICIAL WAY TO DO A LEGAL CLEAN INSTALL ON A NEW HARD DRIVE

No wonder Apple can have a laugh at us.....

Eric the trouble is MS have deliberately made licensing confusing, and they won't be sorting it anytime soon.