1) The local channel 7 news story on 10/12/09 was titled, "Over 200 evacuated after Maryland Buddhist temple fire." It briefly stated that, "Fire officials say the blaze was reported shortly after noon, Sunday, by a member at the Nichiren Shoshu Myosen-ji Buddhist temple on University Blvd West."
2) The Washington Post had two news stories & photos about the incident on 10/12/09: "Montgomery Buddhist Temple catches fire during service", and "Firefighters remove debris at Nichiren Shoshu Temple".
3) The NST-Myosen-ji website has a statement posted on it: "Temple is temporarily closed." "During the Oeshiki ceremony on Sunday, Oct 11, 2009, we experienced a fire that has caused extensive damage to the temple. We had more than 220 members in attendance, but all were safely evacuated with no injuries. The Joju Gohonzon was also safely evacuated. But the smoke, water and fire damage to the building requires that the temple be closed for some time. We have no more details at this point."
In article <12521-4AD6AD8E-5...@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>, JudithSco...@webtv.net (Judy Scobee) wrote:
> Could it have been arson (deliberatly set)??
> = Judy =
No, there had been a private memorial service held earlier. The incense burner had not been completely extinguished when it was put away in the storage area.
Re: Myosen-ji Oeshiki Fire, 10/11/09 Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren Date: Thu, Oct 15, 2009, 1:40pm (PDT+9) From: M <m...@nospam.com>
Judy Scobee wrote:
Could it have been arson (deliberately set)?? = Judy = ---------------------------------------------------
M wrote:
No, it was carelessness. The bullshit the SGI is spreading about it is disgusting. M --------------------------------------------------- RC comments: Well, I have to disagree with you on both statements -- 1) it really was NOT "carelessness"; it was conscientiousness that caused an accident; and 2) the SGI officially is really NOT spreading anything about the fire - I saw two SGI leaders who are involved with the "Soka Spirit" campaign last Wednesday, 10/14/09, and they said not a word about it to me. So, what you have apparently read on the "SGI Unofficial" website is just the facts about the fire and a few rather mild personal comments made by some people re. ceremonies & "barbeques". So far, none of the comments made have been directly critical of the NST priests or laity or placed any blame on anyone for the fire as I was inclined to do myself when I first found out about the fire. Anyway, I think that the focus of this should be about the members of the temple and not what anybody else thinks about the incident. Think about the members who have been involved with & supporting the temple for 20 to 30 years and all of their gokuyo & volunteer work at the temple. Then, they drive to the temple from all over the southeast part of the USA, some bringing shakubukus, and arrive there on the day of the Oeshiki ceremony to see it catch on fire during the ceremony when the "Rissho Ankokuron" is being read and it's almost nearly totally destroyed. Now, that's what's really "disgusting." "How pitiful, how pitiful!" - Nichiren Daishonin. WorldPeace! }:<{0
Re: Myosen-ji Oeshiki Fire, 10/11/09 Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren Date: Thu, Oct 15, 2009, 1:42pm (PDT+9) From: M <m...@nospam.com>
Judy Scobee wrote:
Any idea how the fire started??? = Judy = ---------------------------------------------------
M wrote:
Incense ashes that weren't completely extinguished were placed in a closet behind the Butsudan and caught fire. M --------------------------------------------------- RC comments: Well, that's probably something that they have been doing there for years - putting & storing the side altar incense burner inside that closet - but, apparently this time, it accidentally got knocked over and set the floor carpet and other combustible material in the closet on fire. Incense burns at a very high temperature and all it takes is a spark to start a fire. No-thing [Zen] & Nobody is exempt from the law of cause/ effect. WorldPeace! }:<{0
Could it have been arson (deliberately set)?? = Judy = ---------------------------------------------------
Kurt wrote:
No, there had been a private memorial service held earlier. The incense burner had not been completely extinguished when it was put away in the storage area. --------------------------------------------------- RC comments: What you're really trying NOT to say is that incense was still burning in the incense burner after the memorial service when it was put away in the closet/ storage area to clear the side altar for the Oeshiki ceremony when that incense burner was NOT going to be used. Well, that explains how the fire got started to me: that kind of incense burner for the memorial incense gets very hot and was meant to hold heat a long time. It's made of earthenware, NOT metal, and is like a little round pot w/ legs, and it's supposed to be placed on a hard surface/ table to burn the incense. It should have been removed & placed on another hard surface if incense was still burning in it. They had probably been doing that for almost 29 years, putting it on the old carpet floor in the closet and 999 times out of a 1,000, No-thing [Zen] ever happened, but this one time it did, setting the old carpet floor and other combustible material on fire in the closet. Although it was an unfortunate accident, No-thing [Zen] & Nobody is exempt from the law of cause/ effect. WorldPeace! }:<{0
> Could it have been arson (deliberately set)?? > = Judy = > --------------------------------------------------- > M wrote:
> No, it was carelessness. The bullshit the SGI is spreading about it is > disgusting. > M > --------------------------------------------------- > RC comments: Well, I have to disagree with you on both statements -- 1) > it really was NOT "carelessness"; it was conscientiousness that caused > an accident; and 2) the SGI officially is really NOT spreading anything > about the fire - I saw two SGI leaders who are involved with the "Soka > Spirit" campaign last Wednesday, 10/14/09, and they said not a word > about it to me. So, what you have apparently read on the "SGI > Unofficial" website is just the facts about the fire and a few rather > mild personal comments made by some people re. ceremonies & "barbeques". > So far, none of the comments made have been directly critical of the NST > priests or laity or placed any blame on anyone for the fire as I was > inclined to do myself when I first found out about the fire. Anyway, I > think that the focus of this should be about the members of the temple > and not what anybody else thinks about the incident. Think about the > members who have been involved with & supporting the temple for 20 to 30 > years and all of their gokuyo & volunteer work at the temple. Then, > they drive to the temple from all over the southeast part of the USA, > some bringing shakubukus, and arrive there on the day of the Oeshiki > ceremony to see it catch on fire during the ceremony when the "Rissho > Ankokuron" is being read and it's almost nearly totally destroyed. > Now, that's what's really "disgusting." "How pitiful, how pitiful!" - > Nichiren Daishonin. WorldPeace! }:<{0
The good thing is that the temple is insured and a building is simply a building - it can be rebuilt - and most likely, even better than it was before. It's all good.
In article <2583-4ADE82E3-1...@baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com>, chiefstoneea...@msn.com (Reginald Carpenter) wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------- > Kurt wrote:
> No, there had been a private memorial service held earlier. The incense > burner had not been completely extinguished when it was put away in the > storage area. > --------------------------------------------------- > RC comments: What you're really trying NOT to say is that incense was > still burning in the incense burner after the memorial service when it
Re: Myosen-ji Oeshiki Fire, 10/11/09 Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren Date: Thu, Oct 15, 2009, 1:40pm (PDT+9) From: M <m...@nospam.com>
Judy Scobee wrote:
Could it have been arson (deliberately set)?? = Judy = ---------------------------------------------------
M wrote:
No, it was carelessness. The bullshit the SGI is spreading about it is disgusting. M --------------------------------------------------- RC comments: Well, I have to disagree with you on both statements -- 1) it really was NOT "carelessness"; it was conscientiousness that caused an accident; and 2) the SGI officially is really NOT spreading anything about the fire - I saw two SGI leaders who are involved with the "Soka Spirit" campaign last Wednesday, 10/14/09, and they said not a word about it to me. So, what you have apparently read on the "SGI Unofficial" website is just the facts about the fire and a few rather mild personal comments made by some people re. ceremonies & "barbeques". So far, none of the comments made have been directly critical of the NST priests or laity or placed any blame on anyone for the fire as I was inclined to do myself when I first found out about the fire. Anyway, I think that the focus of this should be about the members of the temple and not what anybody else thinks about the incident. Think about the members who have been involved with & supporting the temple for 20 to 30 years and all of their gokuyo & volunteer work at the temple. Then, they drive to the temple from all over the southeastern part of the USA, some bringing shakubukus, and arrive there on the day of the Oeshiki ceremony to see it catch on fire during the ceremony when the "Rissho Ankokuron" is being read and it's almost nearly totally destroyed. Now, that's what's really "disgusting." "How pitiful, how pitiful!" - Nichiren Daishonin. WorldPeace! }:<{0 ---------------------------------------------------
Kurt wrote:
The good thing is that the temple is insured and a building is simply a building - it can be rebuilt - and most likely, even better than it was before. It's all good. --------------------------------------------------- RC replies: The best thing is that No one was injured in the fire. The "good thing" is that they can take the insurance money & build a new temple in another location. I'm not sure that it should be rebuilt - the 1980 design of the temple is old and its NOT as safe as it should be in the year 2009. For example, there was only one exit door in the Joju Gohonzon hall/ room near the closet where the fire started, and there was No automatic sprinkler system or smoke detectors inside room or main hallway. So, the safest way for the members to exit was back thru the double doors at the entrance to the Joju Gohonzon room and thru the hallway and out through the front doors with the fire following behind them. Its a good thing that Nobody panicked and trampled on anybody else exiting the room. Aside from the decision about rebuilding or relocating the temple, the NS Head Temple should decide to replace the current chief priest & assistant priest with Somebody who's got good common sense and is more concerned with the members lives & safety than with just performing the ceremonies. That's what would be "all good" for the members and eventual new temple. WorldPeace! }:<{0
No, there had been a private memorial service held earlier. The incense burner had not been completely extinguished when it was put away in the storage area. --------------------------------------------------- RC comments: What you're really trying NOT to say is that incense was still burning in the incense burner after the memorial service when it ---------------------------------------------------
Kurt wrote:
Of course the incense was still burning. LOL --------------------------------------------------- RC replies: Well, that's the real truth of the matter, not the bullsh*t lie that you're telling, saying that "the incense burner had not been completely extinguished", because there was No attempt made to extinguish it - there never is; the incense burner is always just left somewhere to burn itself out. Nice try though, trying to cover Up the priests' mistake & their STUPIDITY! LOL. WorldPeace! }:<{0
> Re: Myosen-ji Oeshiki Fire, 10/11/09 > Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren > Date: Wed, Oct 21, 2009, 8:55am > From: Kurt <labol...@spacegmail.com>
> In article <2583-4ADE82E3-1...@baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com>, > chiefstoneea...@msn.com (Reginald Carpenter) wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------- > Kurt wrote: > No, there had been a private memorial service held earlier. The incense > burner had not been completely extinguished when it was put away in the > storage area. > --------------------------------------------------- > RC comments: What you're really trying NOT to say is that incense was > still burning in the incense burner after the memorial service when it > --------------------------------------------------- > Kurt wrote:
> Of course the incense was still burning. LOL > --------------------------------------------------- > RC replies: Well, that's the real truth of the matter, not the bullsh*t > lie that you're telling, saying that "the incense burner had not been > completely extinguished", because there was No attempt made to > extinguish it - there never is; the incense burner is always just left > somewhere to burn itself out. Nice try though, trying to cover Up the > priests' mistake & their STUPIDITY! LOL. WorldPeace! }:<{0
Always assuming something that isn't. Love you anyway.
> It's all good. > --------------------------------------------------- > RC replies: The best thing is that No one was injured in the fire. The > "good thing" is that they can take the insurance money & build a new > temple in another location. I'm not sure that it should be rebuilt - > the 1980 design of the temple is old and its NOT as safe as it should be > in the year 2009. For example, there was only one exit door in the Joju > Gohonzon hall/ room near the closet where the fire started, and there > was No automatic sprinkler system or smoke detectors inside room or main > hallway. So, the safest way for the members to exit was back thru the > double doors at the entrance to the Joju Gohonzon room and thru the > hallway and out through the front doors with the fire following behind > them. Its a good thing that Nobody panicked and trampled on anybody > else exiting the room. Aside from the decision about rebuilding or > relocating the temple, the NS Head Temple should decide to replace the > current chief priest & assistant priest with Somebody who's got good > common sense and is more concerned with the members lives & safety than > with just performing the ceremonies. That's what would be "all good" > for the members and eventual new temple. > WorldPeace! }:<{0
No, there had been a private memorial service held earlier. The incense burner had not been completely extinguished when it was put away in the storage area. --------------------------------------------------- RC comments: What you're really trying NOT to say is that incense was still burning in the incense burner after the memorial service when it ---------------------------------------------------
Kurt wrote:
Of course the incense was still burning. LOL --------------------------------------------------- RC replies: Well, that's the real truth of the matter, not the bullsh*t lie that you're telling, saying that "the incense burner had not been completely extinguished", because there was No attempt made to extinguish it - there never is; the incense burner is always just left somewhere to burn itself out. Nice try though, trying to cover Up the priests' mistake & their STUPIDITY! LOL. WorldPeace! }:<{0 ---------------------------------------------------
Kurt wrote:
Always assuming something that isn't. Love you anyway. --------------------------------------------------- RC replies: "What's Love Got To Do With It?" - Tina Turner. There's No "assuming" anything; it's just the truth. Never have I ever seen or heard of an incense burner being put into the closet while it was still burning by anyone at my local NSTemple, Myogyo-ji, from 1981 to 2002. If I had, I would have told the FooL just how dangerous dong that could be and NOT to do it. Straight Up! But, Y2002 was the year that Chief Priest Murata was assigned there and I Stopped going to the temple, so I don't know if he ever started doing that there or not. Thank goodness he got transferred to NST - Myosen-ji before anything like that happened at Myogyo-ji. Chanting works - I chanted for him to leave, and am glad that I did. So, try to cover Up for those FooLs as much as you can, but the truth will always be revealed about the priest-hoods, Mister Kurt! LOL. WorldPeace! }:<{0
It's all good. --------------------------------------------------- RC replies: The best thing is that No one was injured in the fire. The "good thing" is that they can take the insurance money & build a new temple in another location. I'm not sure that it should be rebuilt - the 1980 design of the temple is old and its NOT as safe as it should be in the year 2009. For example, there was only one exit door in the Joju Gohonzon hall/ room near the closet where the fire started, and there was No automatic sprinkler system or smoke detectors inside room or main hallway. So, the safest way for the members to exit was back thru the double doors at the entrance to the Joju Gohonzon room and thru the hallway and out through the front doors with the fire following behind them. Its a good thing that Nobody panicked and trampled on anybody else exiting the room. Aside from the decision about rebuilding or relocating the temple, the NS Head Temple should decide to replace the current chief priest & assistant priest with Somebody who's got good common sense and is more concerned with the members lives & safety than with just performing the ceremonies. That's what would be "all good" for the members and eventual new temple. WorldPeace! }:<{0 ---------------------------------------------------
Kurt wrote:
How about replacing the whiner. LOL --------------------------------------------------- RC replies: Surely you jest, Mister Kurt! And, you certainly have never been inside a building on fire as many times as old Stoney (me) in my life, that is, if you've ever been in one. It ain't no joke. Innocent lives could easily have been lost or critically injured in that Myosen-ji fire, and the priests & Head Temple should take responsibility for that. You got a negligent chief priest Murata who's own son drowned at Myogyo-ji temple in May 2003, and he LIED about it to avoid taking responsibility for that; and now on Oct 12th, 2009, over 200 members' lives are put in jeopardy in a fire at his temple, Myosen-ji, by his practice of putting a burning, hot incense burner in a closet - a practice heretofore unheard of at any other NSTemple, and he won't take responsibility for that either. I knew that he was going to f*ck Up again when he was transferred away from Myogyo-ji, just as I chanted for him to be, but I never imagined that he would cause something like the nearly total destruction of the temple! My opinion is that his arrogant & ignorant, very low life conditioned, sorry Dumb-ass should have been replaced and sent back to Japan over five (5) years ago. And, you can tell Rev. "TT" and the so called 68th high priest that I said so. Kurt. WorldPeace! }:<{0
No, there had been a private memorial service held earlier. The incense burner had not been completely extinguished when it was put away in the storage area. ---------------------------------------------- RC comments: What you're really trying NOT to say is that incense was still burning in the incense burner after the memorial service when it ----------------------------------------------
Kurt wrote:
Of course the incense was still burning. LOL ---------------------------------------------- RC replies: Well, that's the real truth of the matter, not the bullsh*t lie that you're telling, saying that "the incense burner had not been completely extinguished", because there was No attempt made to extinguish it - there never is; the incense burner is always just left somewhere to burn itself out. Nice try though, trying to cover Up the priests' mistake & their STUPIDITY! LOL. WorldPeace! }:<{0 ----------------------------------------------
Kurt wrote:
Always assuming something that isn't. Love you anyway. ---------------------------------------------- RC replies: "What's Love Got To Do With It?" - Tina Turner. There's No "assuming" anything; it's just the truth. Never have I ever seen or heard of an incense burner being put into the closet while it was still burning by anyone at my local NSTemple, Myogyo-ji, from 1981 to 2002. If I had, I would have told the FooL just how dangerous doing that could be and NOT to do it. Straight Up! But, Y2002 was the year that Chief Priest Murata was assigned there and I Stopped going to the temple, so I don't know if he ever started doing that there or not. Thank goodness he got transferred to NST - Myosen-ji before anything like that happened at Myogyo-ji. Chanting works - I chanted for him to leave, and am glad that I did. So, try to cover Up for those FooLs as much as you can, but the truth will always be revealed about the NaSTy priest-hoods, Mister Kurt! LOL. WorldPeace! }:<{0
Re: Myosen-ji Oeshiki Fire, 10/11/09 Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren Date: Thu, Oct 15, 2009, 1:40pm (PDT+9) From: M <m...@nospam.com>
Judy Scobee wrote:
Could it have been arson (deliberately set)?? = Judy = ----------------------------------------------
M wrote:
No, it was carelessness. The bullshit the SGI is spreading about it is disgusting. M ---------------------------------------------- RC comments: Well, I have to disagree with you on both statements -- 1) it really was NOT "carelessness"; it was conscientiousness that caused an accident; and 2) the SGI officially is really NOT spreading anything about the fire - I saw two SGI leaders who are involved with the "Soka Spirit" campaign last Wednesday, 10/14/09, and they said not a word about it to me. So, what you have apparently read on the "SGI Unofficial" website is just the facts about the fire and a few rather mild personal comments made by some people re. ceremonies & "barbeques". So far, none of the comments made have been directly critical of the NST priests or laity or placed any blame on anyone for the fire as I was inclined to do myself when I first found out about the fire. Anyway, I think that the focus of this should be about the members of the temple and not what anybody else thinks about the incident. Think about the members who have been involved with & supporting the temple for 20 to 30 years and all of their gokuyo & volunteer work at the temple. Then, they drive to the temple from all over the southeast part of the USA, some bringing shakubukus, and arrive there on the day of the Oeshiki ceremony to see it catch on fire during the ceremony when the "Rissho Ankokuron" is being read and it's almost nearly totally destroyed. Now, that's what's really "disgusting." "How pitiful, how pitiful!" - Nichiren Daishonin. WorldPeace! }:<{0 ---------------------------------------------------
Kurt wrote:
The good thing is that the temple is insured and a building is simply a building - it can be rebuilt - and most likely, even better than it was before. It's all good. --------------------------------------------------- RC replies: Well, I already wrote a previous message to you about that "good thing" and "all good" view of yours, Kurt. But, today I have some new info about that. 1). Re. the temple being insured, it is/ was probably NOT insured enough to cover what was reported in the Washington Post as $800,000.00 in damages from the fire. The temple building & property did NOT cost that much in 1980 when it was built & opened and first insured. Unless the property insurance was increased over the past 29 years, the temple can NOT be rebuilt as it was for that amount of insurance money in Y2009. 2). The building & fire codes in that locality, Montgomery County & Silver Spring, MD have been changed and there are wooden structures of the old temple that can NOT be replaced and that have to be reconstructed with metal parts to comply with the new codes; and, that will add at least an estimated $200,000.00 to the rebuilding & repair costs. And, I already told you that the old temple did NOT have a modern water sprinkler system or fire & smoke detection system in it which costs even more to install in old building than in a new one. So, now the rebuilding & repair cost involved is over one million to 1.5 million dollars in Y2009. I seriously doubt that the temple carried insurance on it for that amount. 3). FYI - the SGI "Soka Spirit" group is strong down there and they've been doing an investigation of the fire & temple since the day it happened - the above info in #2 came indirectly from one of their members/ leaders. They don't like what they've heard about some temple members trying to blame the design of the temple building on the old NSA/ Soka Gakkai as the reason for the severity of the fire, instead of acknowledging how the fire got started & who was responsible for it and the fact that the temple was very largely made of wood that had gotten very old & dry, of course.
4). Meanwhile, the temple has taken down the brief info about the fire that it had on its website, and No priest has taken any responsibility for causing it or even apologized for it, 12 days after the fire. So, I'm betting that they/ NSTemple is just going to take the insurance money & run and say "bye, bye" to the Myosen-ji temple members who have mixed emotions & various opinions about whether or not to rebuild the temple, especially there! LOL. WorldPeace! }:<{0
In article <2583-4AE35992-2...@baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com>, chiefstoneea...@msn.com (Reginald Carpenter) wrote:
> RC replies: Well, I already wrote a previous message to you about that > "good thing" and "all good" view of yours, Kurt. But, today I have some > new info about that.
You don't have "new" info. You only project your own anger you have for the temple. The SGI has "investigated?" LOL Speculation and innuendo. Sour grapes.
All building fires either start accidentally or from arson.
Kurt wrote: > In article <2583-4AE35992-2...@baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com>, > chiefstoneea...@msn.com (Reginald Carpenter) wrote:
>> RC replies: Well, I already wrote a previous message to you about that >> "good thing" and "all good" view of yours, Kurt. But, today I have some >> new info about that.
> You don't have "new" info. You only project your own anger you have for > the temple. The SGI has "investigated?" LOL > Speculation and innuendo. > Sour grapes.
> All building fires either start accidentally or from arson.
M <m...@nojunk.com.invalid> wrote: > Kurt wrote: > > In article <2583-4AE35992-2...@baytvnwsxa002.msntv.msn.com>, > > chiefstoneea...@msn.com (Reginald Carpenter) wrote:
> >> RC replies: Well, I already wrote a previous message to you about that > >> "good thing" and "all good" view of yours, Kurt. But, today I have some > >> new info about that.
> > You don't have "new" info. You only project your own anger you have for > > the temple. The SGI has "investigated?" LOL > > Speculation and innuendo. > > Sour grapes.
> > All building fires either start accidentally or from arson.