More children's drawings displayed in the subway., The second time is just like the first.

http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=274

Had the school done an art project like this, I would have paid good money to attend.

I really should start doing that project again.



That's what I'm talking about.

I've already stop dreaming to become the Koreans friend any more, rather I'd really like to ask their favour to leave us alone forever. So, I do not expect much on today's prime minister Koizumi is visiting Korea to discuss with korean's lovely facelift maniac President Roh Moo-Hyun.

No doubts that he'll only keep saying "Dokdo is ours! Even Tsushima Island is ours too!" "Don't go to Yasukuni Shrine" "Change history textbook" blah blah blah. Tired :(

They should have known that Japan is one of the democratic entity where the freedom of religion is guaranteed. Yasukuni Shrine is a private religious corporation, so anybody who wants to go there can go.

Gord, do you know the story of "Subway Incident" in Korea? It's completely disgraceful ... http://www.areastudies.org/usinkorea/subway/

Hi Gord, I'm an average Japanese guy studying biology at a University.
First of all, thanks for the massive effort you put in to this subject.

I showed the pics to my friends and teachers, and everybody was just shocked and amazed that this kind of thing could actually happen.
Had this occurred in Japan, there would be mass dismissals and the media would make coverage for days. Truly amazing.

It’s also amazing that there are people who bring up “history” to justify this.
These people need to take a crowbar and pry their heads out of their ass already. This has nothing to do with history any more. No, I do think the Japanese government sucks when it comes to “facing up to their own history” but that doesn’t mean you can do THIS to your children. No way.

It’s also frightening because the Japanese people are starting to develop strong antipathies towards the Koreans.
The Japanese rightist are gaining power everyday under the presence of these extreme anti-Japan sentiments, and the unreasonable accusations often made by the Koreans are used by them to discredit all those who argue that atrocities did take place.

----------------------------------------
P.S.
Gord, do you have any idea what organization organized this project?
Or could you post a larger pic of the text shown in the first pic (Posters advertising the…)?
Maybe we’ll get a clue who’s behind of this, if someone could translate that text.
Any information appreciated, for I want to know in what extent we can interpret this, and for I want to send them an E-mail and tell them how much they suck…

http://file1.schooline.net/gyeyang/File/ma...ject_66_A_69586



And in striking a blow for common sense, Nolan reports that the display has been removed.

I wouldn't be surprised if these pictures were displayed in somewhere in North Korea, where a mighty dictator decides everything and nobody dares to argue.

What frightens me the most is, this happened in South Korea where election, congress, and justice system seems to exist, and the freedom of speech supposed to exist.

Maybe they could beat up Japanese, Americans, or whoever they dislike and use the "history issue" to justify it. I am almost sure it will happen soon.

What is the difference between North Korea and South Korea?

I'm not sure any more.

North Koreans are way less anti-Japanese. At least the girls are.

Here's the school that put them up:
http://www.gyeyang.ms.kr/

They still have it displayed on their page but maybe they're just slow in taking it down.

What once was has now ceased to be.

This and the other thread have become very popular on 2channel, one of the world's largest internet forums (almost exclusively used by Japanese).

Here's a watchlist of the newest threads on 2channel that keep popping up all over the place over this incident: http://urapera.sakura.ne.jp/korea/001/0616_korean_edu.htm

This post has been edited by Anonymous on Jun 20 2005, 03:41 PM

The posts have gone off-topic. I’ll move them in another section.

This coming from someone who has made several personal attacks and has yet to provide anything in his own defense? You haven't once backed up anything that you've said to be the absolute truth. And no I'm not Korean, and frankly the only way I know that you're Korean is by your poor grasp of the english language. You need to stop flapping your gums and start producing some credible info to back your stance.
Please Note: Propoganda/Rhetoric does not count as credible info.

Here's something in my defense.

When you are done insulting the site you believe the pictures are on, I am curious how you plan to insult the pictures.

You'll find pictures of Korean postage stamps from the Imperial Korean Post (with a K) and passports from the Imperial Korean Foreign Office (with a K), for example. And when the place became a colony of Japan, you'll note that in official documentation the place was called Chosen (with the very C that is often claimed they wanted to avoid using).

As well as other links to sites containing evidence that the use of K was preferred in the spelling of Korea over C.

If you have any actual evidence that Japan was behind everyone spelling Korea with a K instead of a C other than the empty claims of others, now would be a good time to show them to us in the general forum rather than tossing out grade-school insults in this thread in a language where you aren't well versed in. I would welcome the introduction of actual evidence behind the claims you are making. Though I suspect that you don't actually have any evidence or have seen any evidence and are simply using poorly worded insults to distract from the conversation.

Hello, I felt the need to register after viewing these pictures (this and original topic).
I am Korean and I will admit at first I thought it was funny in a joking kind of way (even author comments are viewed as fun). But I quickly felt disgust and shame for those students and teachers to do such awful act.
Ironic I am an art student, and as one, much of the style I enjoy originates from Japanese. I really enjoy and appreciate their culture, even many of my own Korean friends laugh say, "you wish you were born Japanese!" I know some Japanese people and they're all very kind to me, even at Mitsuwa (Japanese store). The people even mistake me for Japanese and greet me in their language (of course I don't understand much).
Many Koreans who have deep resentment towards Japan, even some of my own friends. I ask them "why?" and reason because their parents. It is the elderly generation that pass down hate to kids. But please don't think "every Korean is fuck Japan". At same time, many Koreans feel no apprehension towards.. "what is past is past". My mother has a Japanese coworker and they have been good friends for 15+ years. My sister works at a Japanese restaurant and they are all very nice (Japanese sushi chef always make something nice dinner for her after job). Even my Korean friend his aunt married Japanese man, they are very loving couple.
I guess my point is, I hope all the Japanese people who sees this forum pictures will not change their feelings because of some foolish children. Many Koreans have peace. Please hope for happy future between us!! Thank you ^^

Korea has asked Koizumi to stop visiting a pagan shrine that houses 14 Class-A war criminals, including Hideki Tojo who ordered the murders of over 4 million people across Asia. His response was no. Korea then asked him to compromise and just remove the war criminals so that there would be no controversy. Again his answer was no. Now German Chancellor Schroeder makes annual visits to Auschwitz and expresses remorse over the atrocities that occurred there. Now imagine if Germany made a church that sainted and housed the bodies of Hitler, Goethe, Goebbels, etc. and Schroeder then made annual visits to pay hommage to them. I guess it must truly be "amazing" that history could bring out such disgust against the nipponese.

watoro writes, "The Japanese rightist are gaining power everyday under the presence of these extreme anti-Japan sentiments, and the unreasonable accusations often made by the Koreans are used by them to discredit all those who argue that atrocities did take place."

Now what is so unreasonable about asking them to remove war criminals? Oh, I see. You are an ignorant nipponese nationalist. If you want peace, pull your head out of your own ass.

Now I love how the nipponese are calling the subway art propaganda. Nigga please. It's called freedom of expression. I believe propaganda is when a government ratifies history textbooks with distorted and false accounts of history (ie. the Pearl Harbor bombing was justified) and uses them to teach their children so that they will grow up believing those lies (see nippon). nippon is teaching their kids lies, Koreans are teaching their children about these lies. Nuff said.

Yet paying respects to Kim Il Sung whose actions lead to the deaths of more than two million people has been done by South Korean representatives.

And would you like to know how many people who are guilty of horrible things are buried at Arlington Cemetery?

You may not wish to insult others when you forgive others for doing the same thing you are casting insults over.

Such as Korea's history books teaching that Japan invaded, that Korea in the 19th century was an advanced nation, that Korean "freedom fighters" liberated Korea from Japan in 1945, skipping completely over how more than a hundred Koreans were convicted as war criminals in WW2, claiming that Japan never apologized nor paid for harming Korean citizens, the "Dokdo" is Korea's despite the claims being unlikely to be upheld, claiming that Corea with a K is Japan's idea, etc., etc. As noted already, Korean history books are viewed as being far more incorrect than the single book that the Korean government is upset about.

South Korean representatives? Who would these people be? If you are going to put up bogus facts, please try to back them up. The rest of your arguments can be categorized as tu quoque. You are saying that because Americans have people "guilty of horrible things", nippon can too. And once again, who are these people and are they Class-A war criminals. Your last section has me speechless (almost).

gord- "Such as Korea's history books teaching that Japan invaded, that Korea in the 19th century was an advanced nation, that Korean "freedom fighters" liberated Korea from Japan in 1945, skipping completely over how more than a hundred Koreans were convicted as war criminals in WW2, claiming that Japan never apologized nor paid for harming Korean citizens, the "Dokdo" is Korea's despite the claims being unlikely to be upheld, claiming that Corea with a K is Japan's idea, etc., etc. As noted already, Korean history books are viewed as being far more incorrect than the single book that the Korean government is upset about. "

japan invaded...what? Are you saying that Korea attacked nippon? When would this be? During the meiji restoration?...I can only take it from your post that since you believe that Korea supposedly "attacked" and they were not an "advanced nation", this gave nippon justification to attack Korea and the rest of the Asian continent for that matter. I see now... Freedom fighters liberating them from japan? They have never said that. They have said that liberation groups were organizing and revolts had started (This is backed by Korean and American history texts and I'm pretty sure even nipponese texts acknowledge this, although you never know). I know all about the class B and C "war criminals". Are you talking about the guys that were conscripted to be heads of the nippon POW camps? Let me tell you, I didn't learn about these facts in the U.S. This is besides the point though. THERE ARE NO SHRINES FOR THESE MEN! These men did nothing to the nipponese people nor are they being worshipped by the Korean President. Stick to the argument.

As to your response that Korean history is "viewed as being far more incorrect", American Historians Bill Taylor and Frank Gibney both say that nippon's history is "openly skewed", mostly because of the deal MacArthur and the U.S. cut with nippon, allowing them not to prosecute Hirohito and not admitting to their war atrocities. These facts are not from Korean texts, but American texts (see The Pacific Century). So much for Korean inaccuracies.

And lastly, who am I forgiving? Are you're saying that I am not allowed voice an opinion. Wow. Like I said, you are a nipponese nationalist that can't stand to hear anything negative about nippon. Defend nippon at all costs!! Live in your little dream world Gordo. I guess your next post will be "Japan-The origins of mankind"

[TWILIGHT ZONE MUSIC]

Imagine if you will a thread on an internet forum. A thread like any other except for a terrible curse. This thread was cursed to have numerous poor-english-speaking posters making unfounded claims despite having those same claims refuted numerous times by facts and evidence. The curse placed upon this thread forced these posters to continue their stances even in the face of superior logic and evidence. A thread destined to drive its moderators insane. A thread only found...[DUNDUNDUN]...in the Twilight Zone...

[/TWILIGHT ZONE MUSIC]

Do Koreans think they are improving relations between the two countries by focusing on nothing but bad things about Japan? If Korean press can find a news about anything negative about Japan, they will happily print it.
It always keeps reminding and reminding.... "I am good, you are bad! Look what you did to me! Look what you made me do now! .... etc. etc." It's basically the act of a three year old child, which tells you something of the mentality that they are allowed to develop in their society.
I also have to agree that Korea has distorted alot of its own history to mislead its people as well. And why don't Korean government fuss about comfort women during Korean war or thousands of people who have been kidnapped by North Korea? How Noh can lambaste Koizumi is absolutely hilarious and ironic.

My argument is not "they did it, so others can do it to" and would please ask you to not suggest that is what I am saying. Rather, I am saying that one should be consistent in what they choose to damn. Arguing that a privately run institution in one country is horrid while silently accepting other government run memorials along the same subject is hypocritical.

Again, please do not credit me with false arguments and then insult the said position. The Korean Empire was a failed country and it was turned over by the government to Japan. While it was later claimed by some that the turnover was forced, almost everyone of nobility thought it was a good deal (70 out of 76). As was already covered in the threads, Japan was invited into Korea many years before to deal both with external and internal threats to the King and his family after much of his own military turned against him and joined in the popular uprising against him.

Older history books and the War Museum in Seoul made it very clear that Korean "Freedom Fighters" defeated Japan. Crazily enough, I've seen them. My experience working in an academic high schools (and lower levels too) in Korea allows me to discover many wonderful texts which are horribly inaccurate. A vegetable indeed...

As for supporting texts, most of the texts run dry after 1930. For example: http://www.prkorea.com/english/history/his8-02.htm And that's one of the finer examples I was able to come across (though it does not mention the active targetting of civilians by "Freedom Fighters" both in Korea and Japan during the 1920s).

By the end of WW2, More than 100,000 Koreans were fighting against the Allies while less than 100 were on the side of Team America.

And those are sources are from sides that are Korea cheerleaders.

Leintenant General Hong Sa Ik commanded an army division in China to name an example. While many Koreans were executed because of their POW camp escapades, volunteers into the military were quite common. Double plus irony in that a general kept his Korean name despite assurances from Korean history books that Japanese names were mandatory.

A shrine and a memorial are pretty much the exact same thing in terms of reflective value. And calls for statues to memorialize claimed freedom fighters who did no wrong are quite common. Maybe they could put it where the General MacArthur statue is as many are calling for it to be removed because a foreigner's statue simply should not be tolerated in this Korea.

Again, please do not credit me with statements I did not make. While it is in very poor form to attempt such a stunt, it does certainly call into question the value of everything else you claim others have said. If you can't even remember what I said in the time it takes you to reply to me, are we to put much faith in your many unsupported claims?

As for opinions, everyone has them. Though what I do ask for is for information on what leads people to form their opinions. That's pretty much how things are done here and it is substantially more valuable than empty opinions. Especially since opinions need not be informed.

If you feel my stated position and cited facts (along with other posted facts in the threads which correct a number of false claims made in Korea which are quite popular), feel free to address them in the correct thread.

I would suggest not trying to use insults to win any sort of debate or serve as a distraction I assure you that I am far better at penning such messages than you. A debate where you are forced to rely entirely on such postings will not end well for you.

I made one.
How about this? teacher

This post has been edited by kusony on Jul 21 2005, 06:50 PM

Attached Image

Bleh? Who's damning? First of all, READ my responses before jumping to your rhetoric. I said children had a right to voice their opinions (sigh). Let me make it easier for you. Everytime I have an argument, I will place an asterisk by it. I will make the argument as clear as possible. This should make it less confusing for you. Then it will be up to you to either dance around the questions, or actually answer them.

Koizumi has clearly insulted the Korean people by visiting the shrine? Yes? Some criminals in this shrine did horrific things to Koreans. Yes? Now the debate was not whether Arlington Cemetery houses war criminals (which you still haven't answered) nor was it about whether enshrining war criminals is improper (which I take it we can agree on, although I wouldn't want to "suggest"). *The argument was about Koreans having the right to voice their displeasure. That is all. Now, if I am not to "suggest" what you were saying on why you would talk about Arlington Cemetery when the topic was the yakusuni shrine, why did you bring it up at all? Arlington Cemetery is for Americans, right? Not for Koreans, right? You are trying to say that Americans against yakusuni vists are hypocritical, therefore do not have a say on this topic, right? (false dichotomy and ad hominem). You are making a comparison, right? *So are you "suggesting" that because you are actively (not silently) supporting the housing of war criminals in both Arlington Cemetery and yakusuni shrine (being that "silently supporting" is hypocritical and that "one must be consistent"), it does not make you a hypocrit, therefore making your's and nippon's stance right? I'd like to hear your response.

I read your link on the freedom fighters and it states this:

"The United States and the Soviet Union, whose roles were decisive in defeating the Japanese forces as members of the Allied Forces, separately occupied the territories south and north of the 38th parallel in Korea for the purpose of disarming the Japanese Army."

Now where does it say Korean freedom fighters liberated Korea? All it states is that there were underground movements disrupting the nipponese occupation. These facts are supported, not by Korean texts, but by U.S. texts (see Frank Gibney and/or Robert T. Oliver's "A History of Korean People in Modern Times"). *Tell me, where are these purported history books you have "seen". How are they "horribly inaccurate"? Please, cite your sources.

Gord- Leintenant General Hong Sa Ik commanded an army division in China to name an example. While many Koreans were executed because of their POW camp escapades, volunteers into the military were quite common. Double plus irony in that a general kept his Korean name despite assurances from Korean history books that Japanese names were mandatory.

Did you just have a nipponese nationalism fart? I said I did know about them. *Learned about it in Korea, which was the point of the argument (Yonsei University if you need sources). Oh...you just wanted to throw that fact out. Good for you.

Gord- A shrine and a memorial are pretty much the exact same thing in terms of reflective value. And calls for statues to memorialize claimed freedom fighters who did no wrong are quite common. Maybe they could put it where the General MacArthur statue is as many are calling for it to be removed because a foreigner's statue simply should not be tolerated in this Korea.

Again, what was the reason for this response? First let me spell the argument out for you:

a)The Korean war criminals did nothing against the nipponese people.
b)There are no shrines for these war criminals.
c)There are no Korean Presidents visiting possible shrines for these war criminals.

can you follow....

Nice to know you know the difference between a shrine and a memorial, though.

"Call for statues for claimed freedom fighters who did no wrong"....what?....do you mean "no right"? *Are you "suggesting" that Hideki Tojo is one of these claimed freedom fighters? I wouldn't want to "suggest" so please respond.

"Maybe they could put it where General MacArthur's statue is...."
Is this something that you yourself want? Oh, I see... trying to throw out things to confuse the reader (red herring).

Gord- I would suggest not trying to use insults to win any sort of debate or serve as a distraction I assure you that I am far better at penning such messages than you. A debate where you are forced to rely entirely on such postings will not end well for you."

ooo, a threat. Pen away then. It's all you've been doing.

Remember, stay with the arguments little one.