Scott 氏からのメール
6月20日から21日にかけて、Scott氏から個人宛メールをもらいました。
Localization Server スレッドに関することだと思われます。
http://groups.drupal.org/node/23165
が、私はその内容に驚き、大変ショックを受けています。
このままでは今週末の東京Meetupへ行くことが不安でなりません。
このような脅かしまがいのメールに電話番号を教えたり、返事をするつもりはありません。
私信ですが、非常時だと判断し公開します。
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From:Scott
Jun 20, 2009 at 12:49 PM
090-XXXX-XXXX電話お願いします。もしくは電話番号教えて。
スコット
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From:qchan
Jun 21, 2009 at 12:31 AMScott、こんにちは。
qchanです。今日、書いたコメントは僕なりに礼儀正しく書いたつもり。
個人宛のメッセージのつもりはないから、g.d.oに書いたので
返事が有ればそちらに書いてください。せっかく来週会えるのだから、そのときに話せたらと思っています。
qchan
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From:Scott
Jun 21, 2009 at 10:16 AM凄く礼儀正しくないし、まだ反省してないようだから話がしたいから連絡して来い。
それか電話番号教えろ。Scott
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From:Scott
Jun 21, 2009 at 10:26 AMお前あれだけの事書いといてみんなでこの事話すとか考えてたら甘いぞ。
とりあえず、他の人に迷惑だから絶対別の場所で話せるよう都合しろ。だいたいそれだけ考えが妄想の域まで膨張してるって事は他の人とも話してるだろ、全員連れて来い。Scott
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Is this threatening him?
So, in having had this translated to me. Scott, are you threatening him? This is hard for me because it is Japanese, but I have been told, that if I were Japanese and I received this kind of a message, it would be to start a fight or intimidate me. And that it is threatening.
Maybe others can tell me if I am wrong here?
I really hope this kind of drama does not come about in this group any more. Scott you have sent me an email before and it came off to me as a threat too:
"Don't make me come out and treat you guys like boys, as you and your buddy there are doing unto me, and stick to computers, thats what you guys are good at."
I just brushed it off as I don't really have the time to deal with this kind of stuff, but looking at this and seeing that you have said this kind of thing to me, who else are you doing this to?
Who are you to do this to people in this group? People have jobs and businesses to run, you don't need to be sending personal emails to the members of this group doing this kind of thing.
Anyways, I don't need this kind of drama in my life, nor do others here.
Shaun
Scott once told me Shaun is
Scott once told me Shaun is an A-class programmer.
He thinks highly of you.
Scott spend his younger days in Japan and America, and a guy like him is twice good in some points but half as good in some points.
I don't think he is picking a fight.
He just doesn't know how to express his emotions.
I've seen a guy like him who has the same background as his.
So am I wrong?
So is my translation wrong on this?
Not me
Also, the point is not me here at all.
It's actually correct.
Translation is actually correct.
I'm interested in
the fact that you appears only at the situation you speak up for him.
...yeah, really long time no see !
Just in the fact, not in you :-P
And just the personal thought.
Shin
//I totally agree with him that Shaun is an A-class programmer.
//There's always something having in common with anybody :-p
Shaun
that email text you quoted on me was because you had to come out at a thread that was buried, and had to get all father figure on me. I told you that.
You've been in Japan too long sticking your nose in other peoples business,
Shaun
I haven't been threatened like that by him so far, and I suppose he won't be able to do it to me forever.
(That is because .... :-p)
Anyways this happening is, in a sense, and in fact, the good thing to the group, I really think.
The reason why I think so will be revealed in the next meaning, if you and others want to know it.
Oh, of course, it's a pity for qchan who was threatened by him in that way.
See ya,
Shin
//Is there the expression like "Kataru ni ochiru" in English?
//Dictionaries say "inadvertently reveal 《one's secret, that…》; let slip [let it out] 《that…》" Is that correct?
I have no intention
ミーティングで話すつもりは一切ないので、話したいのであれば午前11時にどこかで集合しましょう。忘れてましたが、Shinさんとはそういう風に考えていましたので、普段の僕の活動で「また暴走してる」とか簡単になぜ掲示できるのかお聞きして見たかったので。
And who else you asked, I've been pestering Kyoko to have Kino call me as I view Kino and Kyoko as partners in crime. I thought I had enough of a relationship with Kyoko to ask her since we both have each others phone numbers and were ready to talk about these issue, but got ignored and I got a little rude and made a typo mistake too. The result was this thread.
btw, I think this thread was started as an attack on me, rather than a plea for help as Kino expressed, reason is mainly from where he's from, he's not intimidated. The Kansai Group thread must have really pissed Kino off.
ちなみにこのスレッドは堂々と私に対する嫌がらせだと思ってます。紀野君がちょっときつく話したいと言ったぐらいで驚くような玉ではないと思うので。
これについてだけ
あなたに返事します。
次の月例ミーティングでは会わざるを得ないので、そこではなんらかの話をせざるをえないと思っていました。
しかし、ここ（掲示板）ではいっさい直接反応するまいと思っていましたので（それは個人的な思いとして、あなたがコミュニケーションがとれないかつコミュニケーションに値しない人物であると判断したからです）。ですから、Wikiへのお誘い、デザインがらみの話への反応、すべて無視させていただきました（と書くのもイヤなのですが仕方ない）。
いずれにしろ、グループのことはグループ内で話し合うべきで、それが当人に心地よいかどうかに限らず、話し合うべきことは話し合うべきです。
自分に不都合だからと言って話さないというのは、大人の取るべき態度ではなく、また、なにが話し合われるべきなのかは、当日の出席者で決めることであって、だれかひとりの決断によるべきものでもありません。
もちろん、出席された上でその話題にいっさいノーコメントを貫かれるのもあなたの自由です。その話題のときだけ席を立たれるのも結構ですが、そのときはあとで「欠席裁判された」などとここやいろんなところで書いたり話したりされないことをあらかじめお願いしたいものです。
そういう意味で、前にも書きましたが、あなたが特にグループ外でグループに直接関係ないことをなにをされようとも自由ですが、同様に僕もそうであり、グループのことをそういう形で個人的に外で会って話をするということは、僕はいっさいしないと（あるいは誰といつどこで会うか）決める自由がありますので、悪しからずご了承下さい。
もちろん、個人的に友人となった（なれるであろう）人とは別ですし、そもそも、27日は午前中は忙しくてダメです。
僕にはこれらのことを含めて、このグループに関する確固たる意見があり、それを月例では少し話す機会があれば話したいと考えていました。
僕の考えが聞きたいのであれば、次のミーティングでどうぞ。皆がいる前で堂々と話します。もちろんあなたの話も聞きます。
言うまでもありませんが、それを押し付けるつもりはありません。来るも来ないも、聞くも聞かないも、あなたにゆだねられています。
I replys to you only about this comment of yours.
I think, even if I don't want it, I will meet you at the next monthly meeting so I have to (maybe should) talk someting to you and others.
On the other hand I have had made up my mind not responding to you at this board here any more because I think (just as my thought) you are a kind of not-communicable-and-not-commuincatingworthy person FOR ME). That is because I said nothing to your comments that said "Write something at Wiki" and those about some Design related things.
In the first place, the group related things must be discussed in the group, even if some items that will be discussed here are uncomfortable to a/some person. Things those are thought to be discussed should be discussed.
The attitude that someone won't speak about something that is unpleasant and/or troublesome for the person is very childish, and what should be discussed at the meeting should be decided by the attendees there not by you only (and of course, not by me only).
Of course, you will be free not to talk about certain topic there and you can go out of the room during discussion that kind of topic you won't want to hear/talk about is going on. I wish you, in advance, not to write/say about the meeting that everything about you is forced to be decided in your absence or something like that (Kesseki-saiban in Japanese!) when you are out of your own will.
Needless to say, you have the right and freedom doing anything you want to do outside this group, the same as you, I have the same right and freedom deciding not to meet you personally and discuss about things related to this group outside the group meeting as your proposal. Of course, I may and want to meet someone I think is a friend of mine or I want him/her to be a friend. And also I am busy in the morning that day.
Including this thing (conflict between you and I :-P), I have concrete thought, opininon, and idea about this group, and if a chance will be there, I want to talk to everybody at the next meeting.
If you have someting to want to talk to me and/or hear my thought, you should be there at the meeting. I will talk to you and, of course, here your opinion.
Of course again, I won't compel you to come, hear and talk. That is left to your choice and decision. It's up to you, Scott.
Reagrds,
Shin
//I'm tired writing that many English texts, and this kind of not-so-positive context :-p
there you go again..
Your views in how I communicate are your views and maybe a couple others here. Actually years ago I've met with similar happenings in the past when I first came back from Japan and took over a company, and believe me business interests were very much at the core of that. I was trying to startup YouTube clone in Japan inside a printing company that my associates owned. My surprise was that the employees chose to bring down the company rather than just mind their business which would have been fine for them, they just didn't like the idea that I was gonna start another division. And they in essence tried to take the company hostage in attempts to kick me out, but did not succeed. All in all they incurred more than $200k loss along with a lot of my time which I thought was very selfish and disappointing. So you ain't the first one to come across, dude.
Those people, I know have a very similar background as you. And by all means you seem more like a stubborn Japanese than being American-like, just so that you can stop fantasizing. I hope you're not up to attempt a second number on me, because it won't work. I don't see your kind of tricks to be exact.
人の足引っ張るのにずいぶんたいそうなやり方ですね。典型的な日本のやり方です。
残念です
Drupalに関してレベルの浅い私が何か発言するのもどうかと思い静観しておりましたが
一人の大人の人間として発言いたします。
qchanさんの発言は冷静且つ、公正で、言葉を選びながらの礼儀正しい発言だったと思います。
今回のこのメールに関しての内容は、第三者からみても非常にショックで
（純粋に「怖い」とも感じましたが、同じ仲間が仲間に対して、どうしてそういう思いになるのだろうと非常に悲しく感じます。）
Scottさんが、Drupalをいかにして日本に広めていくか、それに対する情熱が強いことは理解しておりますし、
それは素晴らしい志だと敬服しております。
が、必要なメンバーを具体的に名前を挙げる、上級者だけで何かを進めたいと発言する辺り、
では、そうではない私のようなメンバーは必要ないのね、と理解するしかありません（ま、確かに必要ではないのですが…笑）。
正直申し上げて、まるで企業の人事部のようだと辟易しておりました。
しかも不思議に思っていたのは、
上級者の方が上級者だけでコミュニティーを作りたいと考えるのは確かにごもっともで、理解できるのですが
Scottさんは上級者レベルなのですか？もちろん、私などよりは格段に上だとしてもDrupal上級者というわけではないですよね。
ご自身は上級者ではないけれど、他の低レベルの人間は要らなくて、自分は上級者のグループに属したいということですよね。
もし、そういうつもりでなかったのでしたら、すみません。ただ、私の目にはそう写ってしまいました。
qchanさんは、
「そう感じてしまうメンバーもいるから、発言すること自体は全くかまわないけれど、もう少し言葉を選んで、配慮して発言してください。」ということをおっしゃっていたのではないですか？
私からすれば、私が言えなかったことを代弁してくださったと思っています。
（と言いましても、コソコソと相談したことは一度もありませんよ。もちろん他のメンバーにも。）
もし私がScottさんの考えに同意している立場だとしても、
丁寧に真摯に言葉を選びながら発言してくださったqchanさんに対して逆切れしてしまうのは、どう考えても間違っています。
心が熱いのはとても良いことですが、頭に熱を上げてはよろしくないですよ。
どんなにカチンとくることがあっても、頭は常に冷静に、クールダウンさせるのが大人というものです。
キレてる理由
前回はあなたを社長にした覚えはないというような事をいきなり言われて何だ？と思ってましたがとりあえずオーガナイザ辞めました。今回オーガナイザ辞めたのにオーガナイザ気取ってんじゃないと丁寧に礼儀正しく言われても、それって回りくどく「黙れ」と言われてるのといっしょだから、しかもそれを誰でも見れるフォーラムで堂々と正義のように言われて凄く怒ってます。理由（logic）が見えないからです。このスレッド立てられたのも嫌がらせか防御、もしくはとりあえずわけ解りませんがはっきり言ってあきれてます。みんなの来やすい楽しいグループを作ろうと説教してたのに、何？
僕はDrupal初心者です。だからもうとう上級者だけで話を進めてるなんで思ってません。会話に参加は参加すれば良いのでは、参加したいのであれば。人が多ければ多いほど進むのが早いことはたくさんあるでしょうし良い事だと思います。
それにしてもみんなを代表して思い切って私に対してコメントしたと紀野は言っていましたがそのみんなって誰なのでしょう？
This is pathetic. I thought Kino wanted clean threads.
First, if I was making a threat it would be very obvious. Believe me you won't be wondering.
Second I don't really make threats, but you guys don't know me well.
I've been trying to get Kino to talk to me on the phone since he posted a long comment that continues on from the previous disgraceful thread that were merely cheap shots directed at me and I was defending myself, thus I quit trying to organize for the group, and now I just organize group information for myself.
At the previous thread I was accused of acting like a designated CEO by Kino (which really means to f**k off in Japanese put in this context) which really leaves me wondering why? we've only had 3 meetings and some discussions. I didn't deserve that, and Kino later appologized and I believe he said he was gonna write to me with regards to this which I still await an apology. But again, now apparently my activity itself at this group seems to be a problem, as Kino and according to him many members in this group feel that I'm acting like an organizer which seems to be a major problem which leaves me to wonder again. Basically that's a nice way to tell me to shut up. Look, this is an open source group and I don't recall members telling other members to shut up when it's about Drupal, is within acceptable behavior.
I really wanted to deal with this outside the group as it's over the top and I made it really clear to Kino that that's how I'm gonna deal with it. The response was this.
If you want all the filth to come out let me say, what's up with Kyoko talking shit about Gim about how they pride themselves about being the first Drupal book publishers in Japan? It's only our fourth meeting. And I'm thinking with regards to Kino, where the heck does he come off telling me I'm acting like a boss in a open source group when my intentions were far from that?
My conclusion is that there's a lot of gossiping, behind the back talking that goes on with Kino and some others, thus views of other members are distorted within that mini-group who ever they are (Shaun are you in there too? as you also insisted that all discussions take place here yet you talk to others through Skype), and for some reason that actually comes out and is expressed here at a public forum. Now it's pathetic that people would bluntly rant out their ego's here, maybe it's a Japanese forum thing? Or a Kino phenomena, but again he lost me there, and has only accomplished something very negative.
紀野、
見苦しいからグループの外で話そうとあれだけ言ったのにこれが返事ですか。関西で他の人の事ウダウダ話してるうちに話が膨らんで変な錯覚してるだろ、あいつは社長面し過ぎとか、他のメンバーの事もほとんど知らないのに話してるんだろ。だからいきなり、お前を社長にした覚えはないとか、ワケ解んない事を言ってきたんだろ。
後さ、文句言われながらオーガナイザする必要がないからオーガナイザやめたけど、今やってる事は自分のためだよ。それをお前に辞めた後にオーガナイザ気取ってんじゃなえよとか言われたら文句言われるの当たり前だろ。それをグループのフォーラムに持ち込むのも幼稚だと思うけど来月関西向かうと思うからその時話そう。後さ俺の足だけ引っ張ってる傾向見えるけど、他のメンバーが俺が挙げた事あるアイディアとか既に実行しちゃってたら文句言わないくせして、俺の提案とかにやたらと文句ない？俺、自分のアイディア提案したり時々みんなのアイディアまとめてるだけだよ。自分で提案しないくせしてその上、いきなり俺の性格、グループを代表してとかいいながら攻撃してくるのにどこに礼儀正しさと俺だけのことを話してるんじゃないとよく言えたもんだ。
基本的に俺に文句があるからこういう事が浮き出ると思うんだけど、回りくどいあたかも正義らしい、やり方しないではっきり言ってきたら、何が気に食わないのか。ケンカ売ってんの？コンプレックスとひねくれてる何かから俺に発言してるんだったら黙ってろ、もしくはグループの外で話せ。関西人は大抵東京に変なコンプレックス持ってんの知ってるよ。何か俺達の知らない Agenda あるでしょ。
では来月関西で、もうグループで話す域とっくに過ぎてる。
藤川
p.s. Shaun again you've proved to be somewhat a brawler, when I already told to you stay out, and I thought we agreed on that after we talked and left the conversation on a good note.
Do you know what you are saying?
Scott,
I am going to take a step back, and ask you how well is your English and maybe your Japanese (Japanese, I depend on others for the most part, I can read and write, but I don't trust my knowledge enough to display that in a public forum), and do you know what you are saying?
Do you know what it means to call someone a boy in context like that? Now your calling me a brawler in a public forum.
You are not close to me, you never have been. You come to me and email me with words like that that are aggressive, the only reason I didn't respond back to it was because it was not worth my time and I didn't want to see my inbox full of emails from you. As you can probably tell, I have not been on the forums that much lately, I have been looking in on the group. I get the emails just like everyone else, but I am really busy right now with many other things. But when I see a post with your name it, about an email and I am sitting here with on of my Japanese business partners and he reads it and is shocked. What should I do, just sit by and not say anything?
Anyways, I can see you are angry, and I guess that is understandable. But the fact is you sent the emails out, I believe that they were afraid, annoyed and scared all at the same time. Your email to me seemed like you wanted to argue at the least of things ( I have been trying to help out anytime someone has asked me). I don't know your back ground, but where I come from, if you address someone in ways like that, you are not going to be on good terms with them in the future.
I just have to wonder, if you really understand the power of your words, as words are a powerful thing, and in emails and forums, they can stay forever.
My words are not personal to you, if I saw this by anyone, I would say something. I don't want the core members of this group sending personal emails to other members of this group that are attacking and I don't think anyone else wants to join a group where that happens. I am sure others don't want this too. There is an IM system on this group, you can use that.
So I step back, and ask, do you know what you are saying, and how strong you are saying it?
Anyways, back to work for me.
Shaun
Dude,
I generally agree with everything you just said, then why aren't you taking this discussion outside the group?
I meant exactly what I wrote to you, knowing very well what it means. From where I come from when another guy comes out and talks to you like you're a boy, relations can get sour very fast. You might be getting used to talking to Japanese fellas like grand pa, but really, why don't you sit back and imagine yourself doing that from where your from because I'm sure what I'm saying is a value that exists there.
You know maybe we don't exactly click, but the fact that you're commenting here like that, is pretty much asking for it dude. But don't worry, you're just getting mixed up in something you shouldn't get mixed up in. It's not like I hate you, but you are brawling with the rest of the crowd aren't you.
OK, what if this whole incident is an attempt to shut me up, especially about the localization server. And for some reason it's OK if the proposition was not coming out of my mouth (I have my reasons to accelerate things, I may have little time, but I have much to give in terms of translating). I intend to find out if this is discrimination, I really don't expect you to get mixed up in this, you seem to have a busy schedule.
Since you know what it means
Well, since you know what it means, then I know where I stand with you.
These are the simple facts:
-You sent emails, that put someone in an uncomfortable position.
-He responded by posting them here, because he didn't know what to do, was threatened and unconformable.
A comment to if it was right to post it here or not. I think he had every right, you can't send mails like this and expect nothing to happen.
I will hold my thoughts on this issue any more than that, as all I see this thread doing is digressing from this point on. It would have been nice if you would have calmed down, and apologized.
Regards,
Shaun
Dude,
The simple fact is I wanted a phone conversation with a person who politely told me to shut up twice on a public forum, and this was what I got, fyi.
All I wanted from you was to stay out of it quickly, and I think I did it nicely through emails, you had no part in the reasons for these discussions. I thought you might understand but you seem not. You will eventually, your Japanese friends are treating you good. Ask your Japanese associates about the Japanese expression about pulling one's leg and what it is and how often it is done in Japan. It happens all the time.
This thread was meant to digress from the start, and was meant to taint my character, you can at least understand that, and that is what I believe is at the source of these tensions. I'm about positive activity until I'm met with temporary set backs. If I suck too much at Drupal to express an opinion and make suggestions about activity, then someone could at least point out that this group is about those kinds of values.
And you're welcome to join in on any of my efforts at any time if you bump into a wall so that you know.
Scott
このスレッドはグループと関係ないと思いますが．．．
このスレッドはグループと関係ないと思います。今までの Scott と他のメンバーとの議論なら、たとえばサイトを作るべきかどうかとか、スポンサーを集めるこの是非とか、グループの運営に関連していたと思いますが。
なお、Scott のことをまったく知らない僕が言うのもなんですが、僕は http://groups.drupal.org/node/22824#comment-81076 で Scott のことを見直しました（表現が不適切かも）。それまでは、いくつかのスレッドを元にして、Scott のことをちょっと反対意見を言われるとすぐ喧嘩腰になる人だと感じていましたが、先ほどリンクした発言や OSW 向けハンドアウトのデザインの件などで、一度喧嘩していた（と僕には感じられた）Shin さんに優しい言葉をかけているんですよね。Scott はもしかしたら言葉で（とくに日本語で？）表現すると誤解を招く表現を使ってしまうだけなんじゃないでしょうか。まして直接顔を合わせているわけではなく、掲示板を通して会話をすると、ほかの手がかりが無いために、どうしても誤解が生じやすくなってしまいますし。
そして、Scott に限らず、誰かを仲間はずれにしたりするのって、なんだかおかしくないですか？ そもそもここで話し合っている Drupal Japan グループって、今生まれそうになっているあやふやなもので、きちんとは存在していないんですし。だって、誰がメンバーか明確じゃないし、どうやって運営するかも決まっていないでしょう？
もう誰か特定の人について話すのはやめましょうよ。そのかわり、どうやったら Drupal に関することをもっと面白くできるのか、どうやったら Drupal をもっとポピュラーにできるのか、どうやったら Drupal を役立てることができるのか、などについて話しましょう。
==========
This thread has nothing to do with Japan group. Although, other arguments/discussions between Scott and other members about such topics as whether we have to build a group website separate from here and whether we are going to find sponsors now, are in fact group topics.
As for Scott, I may not be an appropriate person because I don't know Scott well, but I have a better opinion about him now after reading his comment at http://groups.drupal.org/node/22824#comment-81076. Until then, I was thinking he easily gets ready for a fight by just receiving opposite opinions. But he in fact speaks a kind word to Shin who, to my eyes, was fighting with Scott. Now I think he may be not good at Japanese expressions. Moreover, we are communicating over text which easily cause miscommunications because of lack of other clues such as facial expressions, pitch, and intonation.
Additionally, I think it is funny to turn someone out. This "Drupal Japan Group" thing is about to be born, but hasn't exist yet, I think. Who are the members? How are we managing the group?
Let's stop talking about a particular person. Instead, let's talk about how we can make things about Drupal more fun, how we can increase the presence of Drupal in Japan, how we can benefit from Drupal, and so on.
それはそうですが
「このスレッドはグループと関係ないと思いますが」と言われれば確かにそうですが、
数日後に定例ミーティングがあり、皆が顔をあわせます。
このままだと、どんなミーティングになるか計り知れないということから
qchanさんは、悩んだ末、公開したのだと思います。
Scottさんが、脅していたわけではないということで、それは安心しましたが。
ただ、ミーティングが大荒れになった場合、女の私には止める力がありません。男性陣よろしくお願いします。（←これは冗談です）
大丈夫
僕がいますから（爆）
・・・あ、これも冗談ですけど(^^ゞ
まあ、気楽に、またお会いしませう♪
Shin
//しかし、“問うに落ちず、語るに落ちる”とはよく言ったものだなぁ（謎）
//あと、すっごく英語の勉強になる、ここ・・・・・PG-15, R-18 ? クラスの（爆）
//いや、それ以上の、見たことない、聞いたことのない f-word な単語の羅列でちょっとビックリ(^^ゞ
そうですね、また気楽に合いましょう。
昨日からの一連のメールを見ていて、驚きましたが。
今週末 楽しくやりましょう。
このご時世、多分皆さんも職場などで大変な思いをしていると思うので、せめてここでは気楽に行きたいですね。
でもそれが”脳にいいこと”になっていい仕事ができるようになると思います。
aiwata55さん
まず、最初は茶々だと思って聞いてくださいね（笑）
＃ホント、にやにやしながら書いてますから(^^ゞ
ちょっと二ヶ所引用させていただきますけど。
とその英語の部分。
日本語の方はいいんですけど、英語の方は僕“が”喧嘩をふっかけたかのように感じられるなぁ（爆＆滝汗
冗談はさておき、あなたの英語はなんてこなれた英語なんでしょう。・・・と、ネイティブでもない僕が評価させていただくのも僭越の極みなんですけど、僕は素直にそうとても強く感じるのですが。リズムとフレーズにすごくイイ流れを感じる、っていうか。
僕も英語の勉強はよく出来た方（笑）なんですが、いまはかなりさびついてて、特に、自制や仮定法（could、would、云々）みたいな類いのものになると、全然自信がなくなってしまって。最初に書かれたものから、ずっと読んでて感動してるんですよね。
まあ、脱線ぽい話はこのくらいにしてちょっと本題について書くと、
そうそう、まさにこれが重要なポイントなんですよ。
だからこそどうするべきかっていう考えを僕は明確に持っているのですが、それは次のミーティングに行けたら話したいものです(^_^)v
aiwata55さんもいらっしゃるんですよね？
お会いできたらうれしいです。
Shin
//iPhone、買うことは買うけど、AppleStoreで買おうかと思案中♪
ちょっと二ヶ所引用
たしかに言われる通りかも。笑
グループについてのお話もしたいですが、個人的に Shin さんにはお会いしたいですね〜。とくに、iPhone 3Gs がどれぐらい速くなっているかに興味が．．．B-)
なんだー
僕じゃなくて iPhone 3GS 目当てかー（あ、冗談ですよっ）
実は、26日（or 27日）には手に入らないかもしれないんですよ。
ちょっと思うことがありまして、いまの予約は取りやめて違う店から買おうかと。
27日に、途中のヨドバシか AppleStore Ginza で買えれば（しかも午前中に！）持っていけるのですが、出て2日目でしょう、無理そうだなぁ。
Shin
//と言いつつ結構余ってたりして（淡い期待）
I found a bug here.
There's a bug in the commenting system with regards to time display.
どうでもいいけど、
Drupalの事はここで。個人的な事はグループの外でって常識じゃないのかな。
ひとつだけ言えるのはグループでどうしても俺に恥をかかせたいメンバーがいる事。超オフスレで思うけど、localizationサーバそっちのけで俺個人攻撃専門のスレ立ててるけど、それが大人のやる事か？
結論として俺だけに対してはlocalizationサーバの事でミーティングで発言するのはしにくくなった事だけは確かだな。それが目的なら結構いい線行ってるんじゃない？
Isn't it common sense to discuss Drupal here, and bring personal issues outside the group?
I really don't see maturity in creating a dedicated thread that is meant to bash my character, knowing very well that things could get ugly if you do things like that to a person.
Well I am starting to see a pattern here, and if this is about trying to shut me up with regards to the localization server issues, I think a pretty good job has been accomplished. I feel very uncomfortable talking about that now.
英語のわかる人はどうぞ：
I have my reasons to accelerate things that I'm interested in, as I'm in a research period unlike most of you all. I generally expect all of you to respect those intents as you all too have priorities. Suggestions are merely suggestions and I don't expect to be met with negative behavior, disagreeing is fine as long as you can explain the reasons why, because if you can't explain the real reasons for objecting, that's just plain destructive behavior. At the root of this ugly discussion is that I was starting to sound like a dictator when volunteering to organize group information, my general take on those views is distorted views due to twisted envying (for maybe not having as much time?), along with false accusations or something along those lines which is why we are here now. Alright. If you got a problem with me why don't you be an adult and take it somewhere else. But don't expect me to respond to you maturely. If this were business, I'd already be insisting to have a closed-room discussion with each one of you, if that's what you want.
It's true that Scott's email
It's true that Scott's email was threatening and not quite appropriate mail to send to this grope member, but if so, then is it OK to show a personal email in a public space and stone someone publicly?
Please think.
Which is meaner?
The reason I speak for him is because Japanese people have tendency to be mean or pushy in quiet manner, and I felt that in previous conversation in this forum, and if Scott is kicked out of this group, then I think I will be the next victim.
What can you expect?
http://groups.drupal.org/node/23451#comment-81257
I just think this is mean
I just think this is mean enough to keep people stay away from this group and Drupal.
mean
とは思わないけど、まあ、基本的には手放しで褒められることではない、とは思いますけどね。止むに止まれずだったとしても。
その点は、qchanにも反省していただければと思うし、彼は彼でわかっているとも思ってますが。
ただし、結果的にはいいことだと僕は感じてもいますけどね。これは“個人的なことではない”から（後述）。
まあ、この際、前に進むためにはここで膿を出しておくのもいいことだと思ってたりするわけで。
＃注：膿を出すの意味を取り違えないでくださいねぇ〜（汗
ところで、日本語わかる人にはできたら日本語で（も）書いてほしいと思ったりするけど。
kicking someone out ってあなたも彼も書かれてますけど、そんな意図はないですよ。そもそも、できないでしょ？ 実際、あのあともしつこく書いてる（笑）。
たとえば会社勤めだと、気に入らない人、自分と馬が合わない人なんていっぱいいて、そのたびに“そいつを追い落とす、追い出す”なんて考えてたら仕事になりません。ある意味、そういう人と仕事をすると自分を鍛えることができますし。上司だとたいへんだけどねぇ。
実際、気が合うヤツばかりとつきあってると、甘えが出るし精神がなまることもある（笑）。
いずれにしろ、その人が根本的に悪いとか言ってるのではなく、単純に自分と馬が合わない人がいるってだけのことです。
あと、「Japanese people have tendency ...」って書かれてますけど、今回のことは人種も関係ないでしょ。単純に、個人の資質の問題ですよ（キッパリ）。そういうのを人種がらみで書いちゃうと、論を張るのは楽でしょうけど、あまりに安易でなんの解決にもなりません。
僕はウン十年生きてきて、正直言ってこれほど自我が脆弱な人間に会ったことがなくて驚いてますけど、それは日本人だとかアメリカ人だとかカナダ人とか、フィンランド人だとか、イギリスに住んでる日本人だとか・・・・(^^;;、ぜんぜん関係ないです。その人自身の“人となり”や“生き方”の問題。
なにかにつけて「自分は攻撃されてる」って書きまくってますが、あのような信じられないほどキタナイ英語の言葉をこういう誰でも見られる場に書くことで、自分自身を自分で攻撃しているということに早く気づくべきです。
まさに“天に唾する”ってやつです。まあ、僕にかかってくるわけじゃないからいいけど。そう、自分にふりかかってくるだけなのだ。お天道さまは見てるのだ（笑）。
ともかく「しつこく（ほかの人があまり気が乗らない）提案をし続けて、反対意見があると必要以上に感情的に反論し、うまくいかないと最後にはいつも自分への“人格攻撃”“人種的差別”と話をすりかえる」というやり方で（ある意味、じつに首尾一貫してるけど／笑）、だから結局、この問題を（最後の部分で）“個人的な（うらみつらみの）問題”としか捉えられず、月例ミーティングでは話せない、話す内容ではない、と考えてしまうわけです。
それ、違うでしょ。あくまでも「ここでのそういう話の進め方がおかしい、強引すぎるんじゃないの？・・・云々」って話（だけじゃないけど）。それに皆・・・というと語弊があるかｗ、辟易している人が少なからずいるってことです。
そこを自分自身の問題として真摯に反省しないと、もうぜんぜん成長できないですね。他人のせいにするのはとても簡単だからね。
で、ほとぼり冷めたら（冷めないっぽいけど）また同じことの繰り返し。だから、膿を出すべきと書いたんですけどね。さっきも書いたけど、“膿を出す”っていうのは“誰かを排除する”って意味じゃないですよー（笑）。
話しづらいテーマかもしれませんが、ここらでこのことについて方針を真剣に話し合おう、ってことです。あきらかな代表もいない、実質的に活動を始めたばかりのグループだからなおさらね。またねじ曲げて取られるとかなわないので、ちゃんと書いておきます。
え、そういうおまえはどうなの？って？(^^;;
僕は前回、十分反省しましたよ〜。
だから、いまも極力冷静に建設的に、前向きに書けてるつもりですし、デザインなど自分のできることで貢献するという態度を、“具体的な形として”行動で示して、貫いているつもりです。わかってくれてる人はわかってくれてると信じています。
とりあえず、常軌を逸したあまりのヒドイ書き込みに、たまらず書いているわけですけどね。
Shin
//It reminds me of an Aesop's Fables “The Bat, the Birds, and the Beasts（邦題：卑怯なコウモリ）”(^^ゞ
//どっちつかずの悲哀を感じてしまったり。都合のいいときに日本人になったりアメリカ人になったり、もなぁ（笑）
for the record :
このスレッドの第一コメントが礼儀正しく「黙れ」と二回Kino君に言われてる僕が電話で話したいから連絡取れるようにしてくれと強く言ったらその事をスコットの事みんなどう思う？という感じのスレッドにすり返られて迷惑してるんですけど。真に卑怯で場合によっては陰険なやり方だと思いますが私自身はKino君が電話しろって言われたぐらいで非常事態だと思ってるとは思わないので、どさくさにまぎれてかなり好戦的なやり方してくれたと思っています。もしビビってたんだったら人に「黙れ」とか言わなければいいと思いますが、一番しつこいのはあなたです、若干私よりしつこいと思います言葉では。
その上これは人それぞれ度合いに違いがありますが、私はこれでかなり、上記のKinoに送ったメールで抑えています。５％ぐらいまで。かなり迷惑が掛からず、電話で話せるよう気遣いをしたつもりで、だから皆様が驚かれてるのは、Shaunも含めて、私は驚いています。ここにメールを掲示したことや、フォーラムで遠まわしに黙れと二回も言われた事や礼儀正しく言えばそれが通ると思う人がいるのも驚いています（何度言ってもわからないようなので繰り返し述べておきます）。前にScicilianのような怒り方するねとラテン人に言われたことありますが、それは僕の今までの経験と皆様との経験の違いだと思います。そういう僕もちょっと笑い取るために述べておきますが、外人の女性にずいぶん怖い思いをさせられたこともあります。
日本人はインポテンツだってアメリカのGeneralに公衆の面前で言われたことありますが、そこで黙ってるのも日本人で、言い出したらきりがないですが日本には日本のやり方があるとやたらと言いたがる（そういう人に限って関西でいうヤンキーだったり外人と結婚してたりしますが）人いますが、それと平行して日本人の島国根性はここで出たのか解りませんが、一応疑ってはいます。よって私も協力できるところは協力するというスタンスで今後はやりたい事はこのグループの外でやります。いちいち一つのグループで相談しながら団結して行こうという方針に賛同しようとした私の間違いでした。
では、
Scott
dont take it too seriously
i think the group like this benefit simply by getting together. so just don't take it too seriously. otherwise, we wont accomplish mush.
メールを掲載
人のメールを勝手に掲載すると訴えられてお金取られる事があるそうですね。完全な名誉棄損で、私の書いたメール内容は関西の警察署の人は”家に火付けたるぞ”とかでも言わない限り、脅迫にはならないそうです。最終的に笑ってしまいます、関西人が怒ったらどういう言い方しそうなのか検討付くので。
できたらこの事はもう話したくないので、皆様宜しく。このスレッドが存在するのは問題ですが。
Privilege and confidential agrement
I am no lawyer, but from what I know, under email laws, you need a disclaimer in the footer of your e-mail to protect the contents of an email. Now if your email address or full name and more was posted, phone number and such, then you could do a cease and desist. You might also be able to contact the site maintainer and they can remove this post.
Example:
PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL:
The material in this e-mail is confidential and contains....
I am guessing you didn't have such statements on your emails, but, maybe you should contact the admin and have them remove this thread if you feel it is an issue that you would like resolved in this manner.
Anyways, I think the important issue here is people for the most part in groups like this don't want to get personal emails to their email, business partners emails, phone calls , and text messages repetitively about issues that could be taken care of on this forum, at least I know I don't.
I am also guessing that you take my comments as a personal attack against you. You can interpret them as you see fit, but my meaning was not such. Again, I think this post keeps digressing. Maybe it would be best if it was shut down or removed, but I am no admin here.
Regards,
Shaun
...
fyi, I see you as someone who sometimes gets involved in something you shouldn't care, but besides that there is nothing. I am not going to contact the site maintainers, but if anyone wishes to (maybe contacting Stein first is appropriate) that's fine with me.
also I don't feel like emailing you so I'll comment here but what I wrote in Japanese in email, is very far from a threat in Japanese and in English. It's like "damn it! I wanna talk. call". In Japanese we also say "I'm gonna kill you" when we fight, a lot, but most of the time it doesn't literally mean what it means. Anyways I think you interpreted what I said as something considered a real threat in English, if that is the case it's not. The meaning and weight of the word "threat" are different in the two languages. If I sounded angry in the email, yes that is very true.
FYI
ひとつだけ言っておこうかな。
セクハラが加害者の意図とは関係なく、被害者がハラスメントと感じたらそれはセクハラとみなされるように、この手の恐怖というのは相手がどれだけ感じているかは傍からはわからないものです。たとえ加害者にその意図がなくても、脅迫と感じられたらそれは脅迫だということです（法律的な話ではなく）。
男性の我々は、女性の性的被害者の受けた直接的あるいは間接的な被害、特に心の傷を容易に思い知ることはできないが、聞くところ・読むところによるとそれははかりしれないものらしいですね。
脅迫というのも似たようなものだと思います。
正直に言えば僕自身、27日にあなたがナイフをしのばせてやってくるところを半ば本気で想像して、恐怖を感じているからね。
シシリアン気取るならマシンガンかな（笑）（いったいどこの国の人間なんだ、君は？／爆）
・・・って冗談めかして終わらせてみるけど、結構マジで。
One thing you should know.
It is said that a sexual harassment is EXECUTED when the victim feels it a harassment, same as it, this kind of feeling such as fear, emotion to be threatened can't be imagined by others including the assailant, even if the threatening person didn't intend to do so, the victim feels it threatening, it IS threatening. (Not mentioned about law related thing)
We, men, can't imagine how women who suffered from a sexual abuse or kind of things directly or indirectly, feels, especially how much they are injured emotionally rather than bodily. As I hear from some news and read some books, it is really extraordinary.
Threatening, I think, is the same.
To tell you the truth, I really feels a kind of feeling of fear that I imagine you will carry a knife or something with you at the next meeting.
Oh maybe with a machine gun or an automatic rifle as a Cosa Nostra ! :-p (Which nation on earth are you based on ?)
http://groups.drupal.org/node/23451#comment-81296
Shin
//Am I joking? Nope. Really scared. It's not the appropriate time writing some jokes.
元々 the source of this argument
こういう事をコメントに混ぜて書くから、僕が問題視して、長い話をまとめると結果がこのスレッドにまで達しました。それに対してブツブツ文句言ってたら、Shaunと紀野君が出てきたのが現状で、この状況を俺が誰かのせいにするんだったら考えて見たらShinさんの責任かな？
To cut a long story short, it's specifically these kinds of comments from you that has resulted as this thread. And it's these kinds of comments that I've been complaining time and time again, which resulted in Shaun and Qchan coming out, and I coming out as the bad guy. I suggest a closed-discussion group (you said I tried to start a secret society according to you), you've accused and tainted me with a lot of things I can't remember them all, but even at the comments above you've called me wimp, and now I'm the guy who might show up with knife?.. no wonder you scare. I think you have your reasons.
I don't really remember you at the meeting (which kind of scares me that you comment so much here), but I think I vaguely remember you as the guy who rudely interrupted Shaun when he was talking about some activity for advanced users.
So if anyone is to blame, maybe I should blame you then, huh?!
ここまで来たら笑える、LOL :) 心配無用。
No
--no--
"I don't really remember you at the meeting (which kind of scares me that you comment so much here), but I think I vaguely remember you as the guy who rudely interrupted Shaun when he was talking about some activity for advanced users."
--/no--
and changed the subject
"I don't really remember you at the meeting (which kind of scares me that you comment so much here), but I think I vaguely remember you as the guy who rudely interrupted Shaun and changed the subject when he was starting to talk about some requests for activities for advanced users."
Bold tags in the wrong spot
I think you misplaced your bold tags, the rude part, is the important part.
"I don't really remember you at the meeting (which kind of scares me that you comment so much here), but I think I vaguely remember you as the guy who rudely interrupted Shaun and changed the subject when he was starting to talk about some requests for activities for advanced users."
I would just like to say, that anyone in this group has the right to disagree with me 100% without fear or anything. That is what it means to build a strong community. To be able to come together, and agree and disagree, but have a goal that is united. That is how you make progress. So please I ask that no one is afraid to disagree with any idea that I have or had, I do not take that as being rude.
we really don't click do we..
I do consider someone interrupting and suddenly totally changing the subject of a discussion that others were starting to join in, as rude to an open style group discussion. This happened all out of the blues you don't remember, but I thought that was rude but didn't comment.
Maybe not
Maybe not, I didn't see anything as rude. I do remember the person who talked after me, it was not Shin, but I didn't take it as being rude.
I didn't know
such a disclaimer is needed to protects of an email. Thanks to telling us.
By the way, I think this (and all of the) thread shouldn't be removed because everybody should be responsible to each contents written.
If someone don't want to be ashamed of oneself in public, all he/she has to do is just not to post/send such shameful comments or emails to others.
Anyways I think it may be a good thing to remain these kind of threads in public because you can easily know what kind or way of writing each members did write by these threads and it shows us their personality, what kind of people they are (of course in both good way and bad way). :-p
Needless to say, if someone write the VERY personal information or something like that in public, I think that is a different case. The thread may or should be erased by the admin or someone responsible.
Shin
//自戒を込めて、って英語でなんて言うの？(^^ゞ
//"To caution myself (against ...) "?
このスレードをさくじょした方がいいと思います。
このグループの目的は日本でドルーパルに関わっている人たちがつながりを持てる場を提供する事、知識を共有すること、ドルーパルを広める事ですので、このスレッドの内容はグループの目的とは直接関係ないと思います。また、グループの中の人間関係をさらに悪くするばかりか、ドルーパルに興味がある人（メンバーではない人）が参加したくないと思ってしまう危険性があるのではないかと僕は考えます。このスレッドを削除した方いいと思います。
僕はグループのアドミンですがスレッドやポストを削除する権限はありません。スレードを書いた人しか削除することができません。
I think this thread should be deleted. It's not related to the group's purpose (which is to provide a place for Drupalers in Japan to connect, share knowledge, and get the word out about Drupal), will further damage relations in the group, and will prevent people from joining this community and learning about Drupal.
That said, I cannot delete it even though I am the group admin. Group admins cannot edit or delete content (posts or comments) posted by other users. Only the author can.
Stein
私もsetvikの意見に賛
私もsetvikの意見に賛成です。
ごめんなさい
I want to apologize to qchan and to everyone else in the group. I should have thought through my words more carefully before posting. I realized after several e-mails from other group members that my words put the responsibility for this thread/conflict on qchan and that was not my intention.
What I want to say is that I don't think the group can continue like this. If we want the group to continue and be a place where people feel they can join in the discussion, learn about Drupal, and give back to the community, something needs to change. Perhaps some simple forum rules would help. I'll create a new thread for that discussion to take place. Please reply there.
qchanさんとグループのみなさんに謝らせてください。前のコメントを載せる前にもっとよく考えて言葉を選ぶべきだったと反省しています。何人かの方からメールをいただいて、僕の言葉がこのスレッド／争いの原因と責任がqchanさんにあるととれる文面だったことに気がつきました。それは僕が意図することではありませんでした。ごめんなさい。
僕が言いたい事は、グループがこの状態では続いていかないということです。このグループはディスカッションに自由に参加したり、drupalのことをもっと知ったり、drupalのコミュニティーに貢献したりできる場でありたいと願っています。そのためには何かが変わらないといけないと思います。フォーラム上でのいくつかの簡単なルールを作るのはどうでしょうか。そのことを協議するのに新しいスレッドを立ち上げますので、そこにコメントしてください。
??
I think it was very clear what you said in your first post.
It is solely the responsibility of the starter of a thread in whether a thread ceases to exist or not. The starter of the thread is Kino and therefore it is his responsibility that the thread exists.
It might not help the situation as I'm part of the conflict, but I totally agree that this thread should be deleted. It is the best option for this group, and I wonder who the others are who believe this thread is good for the group, as it seems to me that those that emailed you had that agenda, and convinced you that you commented in a way you had to apologize for. It probably only seemed that way from biased eyes, and with regards to this I doubt they put the group before whatever they're thinking as is evident they'd rather show this thread.
This thread is In fact a disgrace, to this group and this country. And I will hold Kino responsible for this thread existing (don't try to pin this on me as well..).
I think many will see it another way
I think that many will see it another way than what you are saying here.
Really, this thread, and group could have progressed better in many ways by just a couple of simple posts from you.
You know, there are two famous proverbs that fit perfect here:
I hope we can all think about that a little today.
Regards,
Shaun
Again, でまだ終わってない.
Full of surprises now. I don't see how on earth anyone could see this thread as ending up as a progressive thread. Given the nature that it was meant to expose an aggressive action I took, which I have no regrets and guilt. Really, I'm plainly fine with the actions I've taken here, and don't see your point when you say I was at fault. I'm really puzzled at your views and others.
If someone starts tainting your character, the latest one was me showing up with a weapon at the next meeting which is pathetic, you try to counter it.
If someone tells you to shut up at an open source forum twice, well what do you expect?..
And if someone posts a personal email at an online forum, which you wrote in anger, in attempts to have a phone conversation to set things straight, only to get bashed by other group members for being aggressive, this is how its gonna be.
Even if I theoretically set myself apart from the conflict and look at what is being done, I agree with Steins first post.
Shaun, let me know if you agree that this thread should stay up.
In fact I'd like to know how other people in the group feel about the existence of this thread.
皆さんはこのスレッドがあるべきなのか意見を是非聞かせて下さい。僕は自分のやった事に後悔も罪悪感もまったくありません、やられた事に対して対処しただけなんで。理由は十分説明したつもりですし、もうこれ以上書いてもしつこいだけですね。
このスレッドはグループと日本の恥です。僕の恥だと満足な人もいるかもしれませんが、それでは済まない事だと思います。
これを期に、私はできるだけこのスレッドでコメントは避けます。しかし姿勢や考えが変わらないのはお忘れなく。
And Shaun I think we should stop talking to each other with regards to this thread, as I don't see anything progressive coming up now. This is the sort of stuff that goes on in schools to harass individuals, and we're almost embracing this ill practice. You're on the wrong side dude, mark my words.
I see good and bad for both
I see good and bad for both. But its not my place to make that choice.
AntoineLafontaine makes a good post http://groups.drupal.org/node/23451#comment-81674
I will hold my thoughts for now on this.
Regards,
Shaun
I've hold myself from commenting
I've hold myself from commenting on this thread for a long time now and I thought I could avoid it until the conflict subside.
I want people to realize that the existence of this thread, the responsibility and so on is shared equally among everybody who posted here. I now believe I also bear an equal amount of responsibility as all the other poster of this thread. I've decide to voluntarily include myself in so that everyone here would know I care and I am willing to take some of the burden of it.
I'm trying to do this as a neutral gesture, but I'm aware of the risk this might upset some. If this is the case I apologize in advance for my lack of judgment.
I hope in exchange for my involvement everybody will take 5 minutes of their time and reflect a little bit on this and just try to find a way to step back and reflect a bit on the situation and somewhat find some peace (I leave it to you to find a way that suits you). Many people's feelings, ideas and energy have been taxed in this and I find it deplorable.
As everything in this group is open, you could post back, but I ask from everybody to hold their thoughts and not reply to my post.
Maybe this is a bit naive, but I believe we can still show we can resolve this from within the community and grow from it.
I look forward to seeing you on Saturday if you are present at the Tokyo meet-up.
My honest and sincere thought
I'm writing this message after wondering whether I should mention the conflicts these days.
As qchan has made Scott's message in public, you all know what is going on between Scott and us,
now I can get a slightest hope that I will be able to protect myself even if I attend the next meeting
in Tokyo on coming saturday.
I also would like to retrieve our honor from the person who has insisited that we are lacking in common sense
making private messagess in public.
Scott continues to argue that we should meet each other alone, not at our meeting members attend,
but I think that should be done in a police station if we meet each other without other members.
Otherwise, I'm really, really scared.
We feel like we've been threatened by these Scott's email messages shown below both to me and to qchan.
I'm suffering from fear that I can't imagine what he will do to us when we meet us.
You can easily know by reading these messages that what is the purpose of him meeting us.
Those clearly said,
he would do harm to others whose comments and opinions are the kinds of what he dislikes or cannot accept.
Which nation or country approves his totaly insane way of threatening?
Japan? The United States?
Is there a special rule which do not belong to any country, for the bilingual people?
I eager to believe everyone here don't think you can leave the situation unsolved that we are at the critical position
just like driven into the corner thinking that only making his messages in public would solve the situation, protect ourselves.
At this thread, someone has revealed qchan's real name and curse and swear at us, continues to slander us.
Am I to be blamed that say nothing about it and endure the situation desperately?
Is he not so bad to speak ill of us, and am I so bad to endure?
I don't think so at all.
This issue contains both the personal matter and the forum related matters, I think.
To solve the personal matter, we've reported the issue to the police nearby.
On the other hand, as an issue concerning with this group and the forum,
I want everyone of you to think how we act as the group to solve that kind of problem which occurs again.
Isn't there anything we can do instead of enduring that situation desperately again?
No way !
I really want everyone's support, and before anything else, your conscience to solve the problem by arguing
this issue at the meeting from now on.
Thank you for reading this matter.
I really appreciate it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
These are some messages sent by Scott to Kyoko.
(originally written in japanese)
◆From the message on June 5th.
The way Shin-san wrote at the forum, especially to me, I think was the
very critical and would cause some troubles if those was said to me face to face.
That is, how critical is that it causes the trouble situation that an ambulance and a police car
are needed at the group meeting.
(NOTE by kyoko : That means, as you know, somebody will be hurted by Scott, I suppose)
For preventing that kind of situation, I shouldn't attend the meeting for
the other members' sake.
When I read the comments by Kino-kun that "I don't think you are the
president or that kind of person in this group", I am really amazing
and wondered "what the hell it is?". I doubt if he and the members at
Kansai always told that kind of thing about me, so the next day, I
would like to go to his place to inquire of him whether it is true or
not.
Outside Japan, I am NOT the person of peace loving people, but I
pretend here in Japan that I am a pacifist, and also I often am
regarded as a Non-foreigner from my appearance. Because of that, it is
not the special situation seen only in our group forum, and we
actually meet each other off line, you should really pay attention to
me so that you don't say anything to me the way you don't speak to
others usually.
If you know my career and background, you can easily understand what I
really mean, and I act out my belief all around Japan, of course, in
Osaka.
◆June 19th
Got messsage that said "Hurry up, calling me"
◆June 20th
Got message that said "Get in touch with me as soon as possible, you bitch!"
◆June 21st
The phone call from Scott remained in the answering machine that said
Hey Kyoko-san, this is Scott, well ... I wanna talk to Kyoko-san too.
I really want to know whether you know it and are involved in it or
not that Kino-kun sometimes said "You ain't the president, you know,
and don't pretend like an organizer and do quit it"
I have been trying to make a contact with you, I don't know why but in vain.
I've told him before, I don't want to talk about this topic in the
group. Let's talk about it out of the group if you want to say
something to me. So tell him to make a contact with me?
I have made up my mind so that I could talk outside of the group, even
though I use any means to make this talk come true.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
knew this was going to happen
This pretty much confirms my hunch that this thread was geared to kick someone out from this group. You guys are very aggressive.
You should have posted the Japanese email, as things can get lost in translation, my concern
"That is, how critical is that it causes the trouble situation that an ambulance and a police car
are needed at the group meeting." I also added that I would not attend the meeting if it was going to be like that.
And also I did not threaten you, but I wanted to issue warnings and wanted to talk to someone about some practices that were done upon me. I could just as easily called you and Kino up without any notification. Now I'm gonna have to consider calling a lawyer which I really did not want to say, which I think will destroy my relations to this group to a pulp.
I'm gonna have to say, now that you admit that you guys are "we", you guys are selfish and cowards using the group as protection and I'd be delighted to talk to you at a police station if that's what it takes. I don't think what you are trying to do is very positive and peaceful to say the least.
I could say more but will refrain.
Can I ask for a meeting now outside the group?
p.s. the translation pathetic, Kyoko I give you permission to forward all my Japanese emails only if in complete form, to any member of the Drupal Japan group who requests it, including transcripts of the cellular message I left you. I like the part where I typo'd wrote to you referring as "ill one" what is really the only negative term I actually wrote directed at you out of all the messages I sent when you seemed to be ignoring my request to talk (we had a decent relation I think which is evident in our email), what I meant was "coward", but you translated above as me saying the "B*" word which is not part of my vocab. I like that part, that's really gonna get the English speakers blood boiling against me, if I didn't give you permission to send out the Japanese versions in full. You're a liar, maybe a schemer and you suck at translating which I think you got others to do for you taking a lot of time, two words, "NICE TRY" and "ご苦労様".
私が恭子さんに送信したすべてのメールと最後の留守電に残したメッセージのテキストを日本語で、部分々ではなくすべて完全な状態であれば、要請したこのグループのメンバーにメールで送信する事を許可をします。連絡取れず病者と書いたところは誤字で臆病者と書くつもりだったのですが。
This thread is pathetic and should be deleted.
Clearly this is damaging towards OSW efforts, and Kyoko and Kino (your name is public info, you posted it yourself at some other thread). Kino you're probably preparing the final blow right?!
Now I'm the girl bully (while I get bullied by girl, happens a lot, LOL..) which my name will be cleared after anyone views the Japanese messages, my relations with Kyoko was very good until I sent that email which has nothing negative about Kyoko on it although I said I would lose sight of what I'm doing at a group if we can't even show up to an event with Drupal pamphlets, which Kyoko opposed pamphlets if we had to resort to sponsors (not standard Drupal group procedure). I believe this is the first comment Kyoko has made since I sent that email, but frankly I think this was all meant as drama, that Kyoko was so upset she didn't even feel like being in the group, and Kino is gonna come out saying that I'm creating an atmosphere where even nice people like Kyoko can't come out and talk, they're so afraid. It's their guilt that will multiply their paranoia.
Far from the truth, look at what she's doing to me, and compare the translated version and the actual email.
One thing by now I need to say to those unrelated to these conflicts is I appologize that you ever had to see what is going on here. I inisisted that you not have to see this, but that made the situation worse on my behalf due to some members here.
ひとつだけお詫びしたい事が関係のない皆様にありますのでご了承下さい。私自身はこういう醜い物をグループの活動として掲載したくないのが本望で、それを実行に移そうとしたら返って裏目に出て揚げ足取られました。そういう意味でこんな物を見なくてはならなくなった事に対してお詫びします。
This thread should be deleted immediately before things need to escalate further.
この醜いスレッドをグループの活動として勘違いされないために、即削除するべきです。
それがグループ全員と日本Drupalにとって良い事だということは私が保証してもしょうがないですが、保証します。女をイジメてたなんて冗談でしょ？いつも女にイジメられてるのは私なんで... 私の人格を疑うのであれば状況と実際のメールを見て下さい。私は上記のメールを送るまで（話そうとKyokoさんが言ってきたのですが）Kyokoさんはコメントしてました。後はKino君がKyokoさんがスコットにイジメられてかわいそう見たいな感じでフィナーレになるのでしょうか？演出にもほどがありますが、その演出は私の日本語のメールと上記の翻訳を比べれば意図は歴然としてます。
And more and more I think this thread is becoming illegal.
そして、KinoさんとKyokoさんが手を加えれば加えれるほど、ネット虐めの枠内突入と犯罪の域に入って行ってると思います。
具体的に被害者ぶって、攻撃を加えるべく、私の個人宛てメールとその他内容を掲載した事に関して警察署で話しましょう。警察署に先に行ってくれた方が迷惑ではなかったのですが。あなた達のやってる事は犯罪すれすれです。電話で話すよう1-2回短く強要されたぐらいでなぜこうなるのか不思議ですがそれほど、私がグループに居たら（ここまで来たら仕事？）都合悪いのですか？
このスレッドは君達が嫌がっても削除されるでしょう。元々グループの人がいれば、警察署でなくてもいいと考えているということは、警察に行く必要も本当はなかったのではと思います。よって本当の理由は私のイメージを悪くして追い出す事と怒らせる事ですね。あいにく飽きれ過ぎて怒る気も出ません。
closing comments on this thread
Hello,
As a groups.drupal.org admin I am closing comments here.
I don't feel that the site should be used to publicly spread what are typically private matters. It reflects poorly on our community.
This is not censorship. Anyone can start new threads to continue discussing if you like. Before you start a new thread on this topic, pleaseconsider the impact it has on the community and the fact that situations like this often reflect badly on all parties involved.