The FARANG Speaks 2 Much

77 Responses to “The Truth About the Japanese in Bangkok by BigBabyKenny”

1. 1 Jack Jul 28th, 2007 at 5:17 pm

   Thanks again BBK for delving into an interesting subject and providing a different perspective on a topic many tend to gloss over.

   That said, I can’t say I agree wholeheartedly. I studied Japanese at university, visited several times, eventually lived/worked in Tokyo for a year and got to know more than a few Japanese people rather well. I can speak passable Japanese, although it’s not an easy language. Here’s a few of my observations.

   Japan is highly, HIGHLY xenophobic. Most Japanese (like most Americans), do not own passports and do not leave the country. Most that do go on overseas trips go on tours where they never leave the safety of an organized agenda. So the sample of free-spirited travelers/Bangkok-residents are quite different from your “average” Japanese, who are genuinely more predictable and downright-robotic than most other nationalities IMHO.

   The last number I was quoted was 30,000 Japanese expats living in BKK. I don’t know if that’s still accurate, but here are a few anecdotes: if you go to Kunokuniya Bookstore in the Emporium, you’ll find a magazine called “G-Diary” and another mag on Thai boxing written in Japanese. These are published in Bangkok, primarily for J-expats. Even if you can’t read a word of Japanese, buy a copy of G-Diary and check out the ads, see how the BKK establishments are pitched to Japanese punters.

   I also think you’re romanticizing the Japanese by comparing them to wine experts. I’ve met some really smart, funny and switched-on Japanese people, but I’ve also encountered a greater number of flat-out idiots from that same country. There’s a saying: “Japanese people are polite with their shoes on,” meaning that in public they will behave differently. There’s a measure of truth in this. They’re literate, but their literature is controlled. They’re polite, but their politeness is enforced. Remember that any Japanese man who decides to take up residence (except for work-assignment by a large Japanese firm) outside of Japan is making a bold statement by turning his back on the Japanese norm. Decades ago this was very rare, but now, it is common.

   Even with fluent language skills, it would be difficult to get any sense of the J-expat community in BKK. But years ago, I read a long post, in English, by a J-expat who’d been in town awhile. He says that they refer to the Patpong soi Thaniya as Thaniya University. As in, you arrive in town and it takes you years before you “graduate” and realize that the fake Japanese-hostess environment the Thais have created is a ripoff, and you can do much better elsewhere. This epiphany is your “graduation.” But of course a typical Japanese guy will feel at home at Thaniya, will appreciate the J-fluency of the Thai gals and the just-like-home atmosphere, esp the lack of any foreigners (other than, of course, Thais who’ve learned to act Japanese).

   A few notes:
   I knew a guy in Pattaya who translated J-to-E professionally and he translated a couple of the G-Diary stories, they were hilarious. I can read enough of the ads to get the girls’ names and pertinent info.

   I have met Thai working girls who speak FLUENT Japanese. They always have Japanese nicknames and can make their voices go up an octave on cue.

   The most authentic Japanese food I’ve found outside Japan is in Bangkok. Ramentei (there’s a branch on Thaniya and another one across from Emporium on Suk 33/1) is eerie: you could be in Chiba or Osaka, except that no one is smoking. I’m particular about Japanese food and even in Hong Kong, where I live, there’s no place like Ramentei (it’s what Japanese would call a “Chinese” restaurant). They have an English menu but the main menus are all in Japanese and Thai.

   There’s some symbiosis between Thai and Japanese cultures: both have royal families, emphasis on polite speech and different verbs for the same action, depending on status-level, specific gestures to be performed in a specific style (bowing in Japan, wai-ing in Thailand). And the soapy body massage (like the department store and many other things) is a Japanese invention.

   I could go on but I hope that other readers will chime in with their opinions. Thanks again BBK.

   J
   View all comments by Jack

2. 2 rick Jul 28th, 2007 at 6:13 pm

   I think Big Baby Kenny likes to hear himself talk. Words, words, words - too many of them to get the point across.

   I do appreciate that you want to put a different perspective on things. Kudos for that.

   But your view on the Japanese is romanticized, IMHO. I have talked to working girls I know fairly well, and while they agreed that they like to get the extra money from the Japanese, they were also worried of going with them, because apparently quite a number of them are into very kinky stuff.
   View all comments by rick

3. 3 Peter4 Jul 28th, 2007 at 6:38 pm

   I think Big Baby Kenny has a sharply honed ability to observe and report on what he observes. His words do an excellent job of making his points. I wish he’d write even more.

   I live in the main Japanese area of Bangkok. From everything I see in this part of town, Kenney’s observations are right on target.

   In my building are many Japanese. Sometimes I strike up a conversation with them at the pool or in the restaurant. Some can speak English, but mostly we speak Thai with each other. The Japanese I’ve met here are amazingly fluent in Thai, and have a wide understanding of Thai culture.

   I patronize several massage businesses that cater primarily to Japanese, but where they make me feel welcome.
   The girls working there are nice to me, and always treat me well, but from years of observations, it is clear they prefer the Japanese men over any white men who happen to wander in.

   I value Kenney’s analyses along these lines, and am looking forward to reading more.
   View all comments by Peter4

4. 4 Jack Dawson Jul 28th, 2007 at 6:56 pm

   Ah yes, the wine connoisseurs who brought you bukkake.

   And the thought of finding “something special” at Rainbow IV. I like that. That’s funny. How long have you been here BBK, a day and a half?
   View all comments by Jack Dawson

5. 5 BigBabyKenny Jul 28th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

   I think the fact the Japanese invented Bukkake makes my point pretty well.

   Who else but a banging aficionado would think of getting a football team to do that on a girls face and film it in HDTV?

   And realize that there are millions of people out there who enjoy it and pay money to see it——over and over and over and over again and again and again.

   A guy with that kind of imagination that applies his gift to porn deserves the title of BANGING CONNOISSEUR in my humble opinion. :))
   View all comments by BigBabyKenny

6. 6 Bangkok Bad Boy Jul 28th, 2007 at 7:30 pm

   Cool. Blog meetup and bukkake party at the Mango next weekend, ok? I’ll bring the towels…
   View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy

7. 7 deeper Jul 29th, 2007 at 12:01 am

   Hmmm, BibBabyKenny certainly likes to write but I’m afraid his piece on the Japanese is nowhere close to the truth. I’ve lived in Soi 4 Nana for a solid 8+ years and, to my shame and delight, I go out 7 nights a week. I don’t always get laid, I don’t always want to get laid, but I have to be in the know. I yield to the correspondants who have lived in Japan about culture, but I doubt that anyone has seen the Japanese in action more than I have outside their culture in Nana and the Thermae.

   This is the story on these guys. They are not connoisseurs of anything except their own culture and when abroad they travel in groups (like a lot of Englishmen do on their first fearful trips to the LOS-I can write about those similarities later)for protection from the unknown and because they like to make decisions on a group basis. The lone Japanese man is a rarity on the hunt. Because Japanese culture is so highly ritualized and the sexes basically do not mix much at all as they grow up, the Japanese man who arrives in Thailand is, especially if young and it’s his first vacation, a sexual neophyte. If he has shagged anyone, it’s been a hit and run, and if he’s married, he has made love to one woman after an exhausting day as a salaryman that saw his day finish with a piss up with his mates. So forget that BS about fine wine. These guys are scared to death. God, I’ve seen young guys pay the bar fine for a beauty I have already been with stay on and on in the bar sipping on a coke because his mates have gone off and he has no one to consult about his big evening.

   Now, don’t get me wrong about these guys. I actually really feel sorry for them because they know nothing about women and the Thai women, once they get the Jap bit in their teeth, take them to the cleaners for as much as they can. A naieve girl in from Isaan who works in a Japanese dominated bar soon gets the picture about these helpless blokes who know they have to perform in front of their mates, but who don’t know what to do when they are on their own. The wax works figures you see sitting in R 2 (which, by the way,does not contain the best looking girls in Nana-that award goes to R 1 and 4 and Erotica) are mostly there on the recommendations of the group. They are not surveying the scene with a deeper knowledge and sophistication than their beer swilling farang buddies. They have just never seen anything like this back home. They wait until the girls present themselves or the mamasan presents the girl. Everyone gets a drink, including the mamasan or even the escort guy who showed the customer to his seat. Sometimes there are hundred baht tips at the end, all to save face. Hell the Bar has changed phenomenally over the last few years but the group recommendation has not been updated. This recommendation thing travels and because it is group info, the Japanese stick with it. This group info is so tight that Japanese customer after Japanese customer will show up to go with the same number. The girls know this and reject all others until the guy who knows the menu arrives.

   Well, you can say I’m just like BigBabyKenny, all talk. Let me give you some anecdotes in support of what I say. Oh, and you should know that until I understood the Japanese scene, they used to really piss me off and sometimes make me jealous by scooping the babe I wanted. And keep in mind that racist farang conceit of 3,3 and 3 or 4, 4 and 4 is complete bullshit. You should also know that I have kept a daily journal for the last fourteen years and know exactly where I was and what I was doing every day since 1 Jan 1994. I know whereof I speak.

   I like girls who are fresh to the scene and not tainted or made hard by the business. The lovely Meuy came to work in my favorite bar for a brief summer a couple of years ago and I went home with her three or four times, unusual for me. I only ever paid her 1500 baht for short time. On our last encounter, I asked her (I can speak Thai) if she had ever been with a Japanese man. She said she had been with five-4,000 baht each time and no sex. They didn’t want it. They wanted a dinner companion and someone to cuddle.

   I met a lovely girl in R 1 one night, a bit plump, but I just liked her face. I was her first customer and she was great because she was experimenting with some stuff she had never tried before (like a BJ). I never went with her again but she got a taste of the Japanese traffic, then became some guys mia noi. But she is back at work now in R 4. Her customers are always Japanese, always, sure for the money but more for the less hassle-I’ll bet more than half her engagements involve dinner and shopping. She’s older now, not in the least the looker she was, but she is on somebody’s recommendation list. I’ll bet it’s at least 4 grand for dinner, maybe more. The lovely Nok (I’ve followed her big breasted career all around Nana and provided her with some of her new skills-she asked me because she trusts me) was a mia noi for a bit and when I asked her if she liked Japanese she said they are very shy. See, the Thai girl leads the dance. They may affect some Japanese mannerisms, but they are fully in control of most of their hapless customers-I actually admire them for it (and, by the way, farangs might keep this in mind-Thais can spot an emotionally vulnerable guy with his romantic heart out of control in the blink of an eye, so don’t get arrogant).

   I was in Thermae before the Japanese invasion occurred and these two young Japanese guys came in and sat with their cokes. A coupls of very pretty girls came over to talk to them and asked them if they wanted to go with them. Their reaction was to look at each other and have a conversation about what was going on. Another guy, with the worst combover I have ever seen in my life, puffing out cloude of smoke to disguise, or display, his nervousness, went out the door with the prettiest girl in the palce afyer she looked at him long enough with her baleful eyes and welcoming grin.

   This is getting too long but let me get in a couple of other things. Japanese porno is largely about more than one man making love to a woman, or fetish behavoiur, or what looks to be like painful intercourse. All of this crap come out of a culture that keeps men and women apart for most of their lives and has ritualized roles for both sexes. Some girls have complained about Japanese men getting violent with them, slapping them, pinching them, or humiliating them. A friend of mine told me the guy she was staying with didn’t want her to take a shower for days or change her underwear-so much for cleanliness.

   Let me close by saying that after I got clued in with the behaviour of Japanese men, I get a popup in my mind when I see one of my faves go with a Japanese guy. Even if they sleep together, no one has made love to her tonight.

   Sorry if some readers think I sound like a know it all, but everything I know comes from experience and I am, by nature, a keen observer of human behaviour.

   Cheers
   View all comments by deeper

8. 8 smitty Jul 29th, 2007 at 12:37 am

   I have to admit. I don’t agree with much of the premise presented here. But I love how the writing gets people commenting - good and bad. I love Tokyo. I love the design, the organization, the people, the style and so on. I used to help manage a Tokyo team and I found them to be great workers, trustworthy and hardworking but sometimes they had a hard time thinking outside the box. I could write reams on this but give me a Japanese team over a Chinese one any day.

   For some reason thought I don’t like the places that cater to the Japanese in Bangkok. They get ruined in some weird way. What I do like though is they somehow attract hotter women but I have always found the pulls from the places like Rainbow to be horrible. The girls are cute but stonebang in my opinion. I also get tired of when they ask for tips when they sit with u and the way they demand to know if they are getting barfined. If u don’t barfine they leave. This attitude is from the Japanese who come in, make a decision, barfine and leave.

   I also hear that a part from the money the girls don’t like the Japanese very much at all. Why? They treat them the way they treat their own ladies. Like second class citizens. One of the things I hated about working in Japan was the way the men treat their women. I think the Thai girls love the Farang sometimes cause we tend to treat them like normal girls and enjoy what they are offering.

   This is a touchy subject but it brings out some good discussion either way.
   View all comments by smitty

9. 9 daywalker Jul 29th, 2007 at 1:01 am

   Deeper:

   Excellent read.
   View all comments by daywalker

10. 10 Peter4 Jul 29th, 2007 at 2:18 am

    “Deeper’s” long ramble above is fundamentally flawed.
    He bases his comments on what he’s seen around Nana and The Thermae.
    But, lower Sukhumvit is very far from the Japanese venues in Bangkok.
    Although a few Japanese do go exploring in that area, the vast numbers of them go elsewhere.
    “Deeper” gives no hint that he even knows where most Japanese go for fun here.

    There are actually three distinct areas in central Bangkok which cater to Japanese customers.
    I live in one of these areas.
    In my building most of the residents are middle-age Japanese men.
    They are mid-level and senior management at various Japanese companies here.
    Some stay years at a time, while others rotate in on temporary assignments for a few weeks or a few months before returning to Japan.
    In the mornings their cars and drivers are lined up at the front door to take them to work.
    How many of the regulars at Nana and the Thermae can we describe that way.

    At night and on weekends, when these men go out for fun, they are invariably freshly showered, dressed neatly with clean shirts, pressed trousers, and suitable shoes.
    Their wallets are suitable, too.
    I don’t speak any Japanese, but I doubt there is a word in their language for “Cheap Charlie”.
    Among Japanese men, I never see the sort of low-life slobs that abound at Nana.

    I’m sure the girls noticed that long ago.
    That’s why the prettiest Thai ladies serve the Japanese trade.
    And they get the best rates for doing so.

    Living among expat Japanese, I have learned that they seek out quality in everything: service, cleanliness, food, honesty of staff, attention to details, etc.
    A business that caters to Japanese will almost always offer the best value for the price, compared to other businesses here.
    That includes the Thai ladies.
    BigBabyKenny got it exactly right.
    View all comments by Peter4

11. 11 Bangkok Bad Boy Jul 29th, 2007 at 2:30 am

    @BBK: Nonsense

    @deeper: Was with you until you namechecked Erotica as a bar with good-looking girls. I’m guessing you haven’t been there recently - it’s died a death. Other than that, spot-on.

    @Smitty: “Japanese over Chinese”: amen.

    @Peter4: I guess you live on Thong Lo? I know it well. It’s not where the Japs go whoring though, is it? I’d be careful when denouncing the “low-life slobs that abound at Nana” if I were you…
    View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy

12. 12 Old Asia Hand Jul 29th, 2007 at 2:47 am

    I’m with Jack and Deeper here. Incidentally, if you overlooked Jack’s comments (the first reply in this thread), I sincerely suggest you go back and read them again. They’re a thoroughly thoughtful, genuinely intelligent contribution to this topic.

    BigBabyKenny may be fun to read, sometimes, but his professed impressions of Bangkok are generally so far off the mark, so naive and superficial, that I wonder if he’s not really just having us all on. Surely he’s out there somewhere, kicked back with a beer in his hand, getting a huge laugh out of all these folks who jump in to say how much they agree with whatever gibberish he’s decided to fling at us this time.
    View all comments by Old Asia Hand

13. 13 NotAnyBangkokRelatedWebsite.com Jul 29th, 2007 at 7:20 am

    If you’ll allow me to put on my pedantry hat… the US$10 cup of coffee in Tokyo is about as popular in Tokyo as it is in Bangkok and is up there with the fabled $100 melons. Unless you’re in some ridiculously expensive place, a normal cup of coffee will set you back between 200 and 300 yen, which IIRC is 60 - 90 Baht.

    Anyway, I have this weeks copy of Stern in my hands, which has finally got to the Thailand part of the series, and for better or worse it doesn’t feature any current or former Mango girls. Or anything much about the farang scene, except a paragraph or two which give the impression the typical bargirl keeps a whole toyshop’s worth of pingpong balls and other paraphernalia up her private parts. There is a photo of an 80 year old woman though.
    View all comments by NotAnyBangkokRelatedWebsite.com

14. 14 Jack Jul 29th, 2007 at 8:43 am

    Thanks to everyone for reading and commenting.

    Also thanks to Old Asia Hand for referencing my post. It seems to have been a bit lost in the shuffle, but that indicates that people seem to have strong opinions on this and got stuck into the discussion, which is at is should be.

    Much of what’s been written rings true with me, because Japan is damned enigmatic when you get down to it. Yes, the guys in Thong Lo (I’m guessing that’s where Peter4 lives) or another professional enclave will dress well and have cars/drivers, and likely go to hostess-bars at Thaniya, often to entertain biz clients. Japan is very, VERY much a group-culture, it’s indoctrinated and while you may have close friends who are different from others within your Group, you are defined by a series of “Group-Bubbles” if you will: first and foremost you are Japanese, then there’s co-workers, families, and friends. Codified behavior and Group-Identification are what form Japanese society, as Deeper noted (I don’t agree with all his points, but he has done a lot of observation and notation, and hats off to him for that).

    I had a serious conversation with my boss when I worked in Tokyo about the group mentality. I asked, for example, if an individual suffered from asthma or some disease where environmental tobacco smoke was an immediate hazard, could that individual complain on their own behalf, say, in a letter to an editor of a newspaper? There was much discussion, but eventually my boss felt that if that person belonged to a Group that had a purpose, he or she could complain within a Group-statement. But not as an individual. This is about as close as I’ve gotten into the real feelings regarding this whole Group thing. The Western concept of an individual’s rights, even to the point of illness and death, is not a part of Japanese culture. When you tap into J-culture (and as Smitty noted, the design and pop culture, advertising etc, is admirable…and much imitated by Thai designers), you get it all. Some gaijin (same-same farang) fixate on one aspect of J-culture and that’s accepted, as long as it’s something noble and traditional like kendo (the wooden-sword martial art) and not something like porno.

    I started watching Japanese porn in the mid-80s, when I moved to San Francisco and found a shop in Japantown that rented it on VHS cassette. While the “mosaic” censoring was (and is) weird, I just couldn’t believe these lovely Asian women. I did not understand the aggressive, almost-violent nature of the men in these pornos: banging en masse, constantly yammering about how much the girl is enjoying herself (which she affirms, while grimacing in pain with her eyes tightly shut). I didn’t understand it until I worked there and spent time getting to know Japanese men and having the porn-culture jammed in my face every day. I could go on about my take on Japan’s treatment of women, but my overall impression is that within that culture, women are a necessary but inferior sub-species. I’m no feminist, but that’s the vibe. After awhile (especially given what “mama’s boys” these guys are), it turned my stomach. It still does.

    These guys are pampered and spoiled rotten by their mommies, perhaps because the business culture they’re expected to participate in is so god-damned ruthless. I’ve had Thai working girls tell me about clients who would just want to talk and be reassured, rather than have sex. This is the “Mama’s Boy” complex. As for the kinky guys, I’ve heard about them too. Japan is the Kink Capital of Asia. Thais don’t really understand the lust for latex, BDSM, and all that stuff but boy do you see a lot of it in Japanese porn: bukkake is the proverbial iceberg tip. I’ll bet there are Thai women raking it in from providing such services and once they get on “the circuit” they will not need to advertise. One place where the cultures dovetail is with the understanding for discretion. The neon, blaring rock and bar-culture is the environment us Westerners relate to—Thais have figured that out, thus Patpong for the US GIs on R&R from Vietnam, then Soi Cowboy and NEP. There are Japanese punters making the trek to Rainbow 4 nowadays, but they are in general younger and not as trad as the middle-aged guys with the cars/drivers, who are almost certainly working for Japanese zaibatsu (huge corporate congloms like Mitsui, Mitsubishi or Kao).

    I’ll stop here, but I must also mention that if you go to Fuji supermarket further down Soi 33/1 you will find Thai-made imitations of Japanese food products, not just Kewpie Mayonnaise but obscure items like pickled ginger, bean curd, etc. Thais have learned to cater to Japanese tastes, and have profited thereby, across the spectrum.

    j
    View all comments by Jack

15. 15 deeper Jul 29th, 2007 at 11:09 am

    Sorry there Peter 4 but I think you’re off topic. BBK was writing to explain to us Japanese behaviour in the context of Bangkok nightlife, not the life of Japanese middle class people in Thailand living near Emporium. That’s what I was responding to, not how they dress, or where they shop, or how fastidious they are. The Japanese, like all of us, are entitled to live their lives anyway they please, but you won’t find many people who will say they are extremely adaptable outside their own culture. A great piece was written in the now defunct Stickman column several years ago by a Japanese who explained how the hostess bars in Patpong that denied access to farangs worked. In essence he said to us, you aren’t missing anything-it’s a highly ritualized scene with overpriced drinks but ‘we’ feel comfortable there because it is within our realm of experience. And he went on to say that taking someone home for the night was rare.
    But maybe you could write and tell us what you have seen of the Japanese middle class men’s behaviour in the places they go to (outside Nana, Cowboy, Patpong). It would be very interesting because I don’t know anyone who has ever written on that aspect of life in Bangkok.
    Cheers
    View all comments by deeper

16. 16 deeper Jul 29th, 2007 at 11:28 am

    Bangkok Bad Boy, I yield to anyone’s choice of women and their beauty. I am partial to Erotica because I have been going there since it opened and I have taken loads of them home. I was there two nights ago But my selection criteria are likely different from most men. When I came to Bangkok in ‘99 there were sweet natural girls available everywhere in Bangkok-on the streets, in Thermae (you could hardly move at midight), the Beer Garden, Nana Disco, the parking lot, and all the main entertainment areas. There were no tattoos in those days, no slicon noses or tits apart from the ladyboys, and no control by the authorities. I never had a set of physical specs and I became imprinted with the simple shopgirls and university students freshness and attitude. That has pretty well gone now. I never go with girls who have tattoos, who smoke, who look like they’re on something, who’ve had a child, who have blond hair, who have silicon, and who look like they have been on the game for too long. I’m not that fussy about how beautiful their faces are and I don’t care if they have that willowy look. Anyway, my friends tell me I have the longest list of exclusionary characteristics of anyone they know, but they have served me well over the years. Using these criteria has meant that I have only paid two barfines in R 4, both sweethearts from Buriram who left the bar about two weeks after they started-that’s why I go out so often. Men like what they like, what can one say.

    Cheers
    View all comments by deeper

17. 17 Peter4 Jul 29th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    Kenny is correct, the Japanese don’t go for their fun in Thonglor.
    (And I don’t live anywhere near Thonglor, either.)

    As for “denouncing” the low-life slobs in Nana, I was there this week.
    (Half dozen chicken wings in The Big Mango is still 100 baht, and the dress color of the night was red.)
    But my point still stands: the farang flotsam and jetsam that washes up there is disgusting.

    Deeper, mate, thanks for your personal opinion that my comments are off topic.
    I didn’t know that you were the forum mommy here.
    And, Deeper, please bring your observations up to date:
    The Stickman column is not defunct.
    It is back to being published every week, just as for many years before.
    (Although just who is writing it now is not clear.)

    What Deeper missed in his critique of the OP, is that there are really two “worlds” in Bangkok for Japanese.
    The first is when farangs see a few of them who wander in to farang areas, such as Nana or Cowboy.
    Or when they go into the mixed area of Suk 33.
    But those Japanese are merely a few outliers exploring for some new adventures.

    The second “world” in Bangkok for Japanese we don’t see.
    What is fascinating is that Deeper didn’t even mention the main Japanese areas in his critique of BBK’s original post.
    I don’t wish to beat up on Deeper, but his thinking is obviously limited to what he sees around Nana.
    BBK, in his original post, looked farther afield.

    The reason I agree with the concepts that BBK presented, is that the Japanese men have us white men beat on so many levels:

    First, they do what is most important to the Thai ladies: they pay generously.
    As a group, Japanese will consistently pay more than farangs.
    I don’t need to explain to anyone here the crucial importance of that to the Thais.

    Second, Japanese go in groups.
    Thais generally go for fun in groups, too, rather than as just one couple.
    Thai girls prefer that, because then they can go with their friends.
    And the TGs feel safe that way.

    I don’t mean group sex.
    What I see is groups of 3-5 Japanese men walking along the street, or into my lobby, with 3-5 Thai ladies in tow.
    Sometimes, then, I ride up in the lift along with them.
    Each pair gets off at the appropriate floor and goes to separate apartments, but the men went out at a group and returned as a group.

    Finally, and I’ll repeat this:
    We all know how obsessed the Thais are with cleanliness and appearance.
    The Japanese men who frequent Bangkok are consistently clean and well-turned out.
    Thai ladies notice that instantly.
    There will be some exceptions, of course, among the 20-something Japanese boys who come here on cheap tours.
    Those exceptions wear baggy pants, baseball caps turned 90-degrees, and sullen faces.
    But those boys are not the main customers for TG services.
    The Japanese men who are regular visitors or expat residents in Bangkok, present themselves very well.
    That’s why the best of the Thai ladies prefer Japanese customers.

    On the other hand, the vast majority of farangs here — but not all, of course — look like, act like, and smell like, low-life scum.
    So its no surprise that farangs generally get the leftovers.

    I challenge anyone here to simply walk the sois in the Japanese areas.
    You won’t be allowed inside most “Japanese clubs”, but just look at the girls seated on the stools waiting out front.
    You will see an amazing selection of young, Thai women: every one of them very pretty, and many are stunners.
    But when a white man walks past, they look right past him as if he doesn’t exist.
    We don’t belong in that world, and they are letting us know.

    Personally, I’m delighted to see the Japanese influence here in Bangkok, that BBK described in his original post.
    They are just all around more decent in most every way, on average, than the average farang who washes up in Bangkok.
    In Japanese restaurants, I never, ever, am bombarded with that American-Negro rap music.
    Among Japanese men who frequent the pool and the gym, I never see dirty, ragged, clothes, dread-locks hair, and I can’t remember ever seeing any tattoos.
    Even when they are drunk, they are polite and some can even be friendly.
    I have never, not so far, encountered an angry, abusive, berserk, Japanese drunk.

    No wonder that the top ranks of TGs prefer Japanese to us.
    View all comments by Peter4

18. 18 BigBabyKenny Jul 29th, 2007 at 4:59 pm

    Quit teasing us.

    I know one of the Japanese areas is Soi Thaniya in Silom. Where are the other 2?

    And can you throw in a little 411 (american slang for information. Can’
    t tell where you are from by they way you write) on the different formats of the girl venues?

    I think it would be fun to get a haircut, put on a coat and tie, splash on some cologne, take 10,000 THB and sample some fun—Japanese style.

    BigBabyKenny
    View all comments by BigBabyKenny

19. 19 Peter4 Jul 29th, 2007 at 4:59 pm

    For those wanting additional reading on this topic, here is Stickman’s personal experience — at one level in the Japanese world of Bangkok.

    http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Weekly2006/weekly266.htm
    View all comments by Peter4

20. 20 Peter4 Jul 29th, 2007 at 5:46 pm

    Kenny -

    I’m not trying to tease.
    I’m using this information to see who among posters here has the knowledge, and who does not.

    You are correct, Soi Thaniya in Silom is certainly one of the three.
    Thaniya would be the Japanese equivalent of Patpong: old, filthy, down-market, pushy, crowded, and very well-known.
    Stickman wrote about it last year, and I’ve just posted the direct link above.

    That area around Emporium is another.
    It is probably the most expensive of the three, but also the most accessible to farangs wanting Japanese quality entertainment.

    (Of course, there is also Ratchada — where Orientals of all varieties are welcomed — but you didn’t need me to tell you about that.)

    But the largest of the Japanese areas is no secret — it is in plain sight — but white men simply don’t come over here.
    Before I got to be recognized, I was pointedly ignored.
    And, at some, got a wide-eyed look as if to say,
    “Oh, nooooo, Khun Farang, please don’t approach this door. Pleeeese don’t make us lose face by turning you away.”

    If you are eager to know where, find a way to contact me privately by email, because I don’t care to mention it on a public web forum.
    The Internet is not the nice place it used to be, so I am being very careful.
    However, even if you knew, about all you could do — and I, too, for that matter — is walk past and keep walking.

    —

    Now, another point and another source of my information.
    My point is the vast difference between the quality of girls available to the Japanese, and that we see in the farang areas.

    A few years ago, one of the staff in my building (a Thai man), asked me if I could help his younger sister to practice her English.
    Now I am not now, and never have been, an English teacher, but, of course, I was happy to help.
    When Thai staff ask for small favours for family members, one does everything possible, right?

    Previously, I’d never met the younger sister.
    She turned out to be a “pretty”.
    She is one of those young women you see doing product presentations at Paragon, or fondling expensive, new, cars in photos in The Bangkok Post.
    She works “in marketing” at a company that caters to Japanese doing business in Thailand.

    Do you know what a job “in marketing” involves for a Thai “pretty”?
    I didn’t, so I asked.
    With a few blinks of her eyelids she replied, “Oh, I contact the customers.”
    “Doing what?,” I pressed.
    More eyelid blinking, “Oh, I do customer service.”
    I did not press further.
    But she did show me the company web site: a legitimate business doing something or other in real estate.

    She always had two cell phones at all times.
    When one rang, she would relax, laugh, and talk in rapid Thai.
    When the other rang, she would look serious, never laugh, speak in a soft voice, and mix in a few words of Japanese.
    Your imagination can take it from there.

    One time she apologized that next week she would be away traveling with the customers of her employer.
    On her return, she brought me back a very fancy bottle of rice whisky, from Vietnam!
    Thai girls don’t just up and go to Vietnam for lunch.
    Another week, off to Hong Kong, for more “marketing” with Japanese customers.

    In Nana plaza, this girl would never even make it to the bottom of the escalator.
    She would be besieged with offers before she even passed thru the entrance.

    And I met a few of her friends during this experience.
    Even when wearing their “Saturday jeans” and lacking makeup, they were stunners, with petite, willowy figures, huge eyes, and long, silky, dark brown hair.
    You will see a few of this caliber over on Suk 33, at premium rates, but they are impossibly rare in Nana or Cowboy.
    Top shelf girls like these simply don’t bother with the farang market.
    They _can_ land Japanese customers, so that’s where they are eager to do their “marketing”.
    View all comments by Peter4

21. 21 BigBabyKenny Jul 29th, 2007 at 8:18 pm

    Peter4.

    OK. I am a sucker and fell for your cheesy parlour trick.

    Congratulations. I’ll give credit where credit is due. You suckered me.

    Like all good scams, I fell for the bait–that there is a secret place only Japanese guys know plastered in hot chics despite what my common sense told me—-that a business selling something wants to be found by potential customers and wouldn’t hide itself so that people who might want to buy from them couldn’t find them.

    I’m not buying that a 3rd area exists. Fool me once ……

    Sukhumvit Soi 22 is nothing special. Some massage parlours and karaoke clubs that cater to Japanese. I have been in a fair number of them and they are fun and worth a visit.

    The Japanese places on Soi 33 are more of the same.

    BigBabyKenny
    View all comments by BigBabyKenny

22. 22 deeper Jul 29th, 2007 at 11:19 pm

    Peter4: My God, I certainly hit some hot buttons there, didn’t I? Well, if you knew me better you would know that I am not interested in being the person who comes out on top, but on the other hand I do not shrink from saying what I believe to be true. Anyone can challenge that and I accept the challenge and if I am wrong I will yield.

    First, Paul4, Stickman is defunct. The new column is not being written by the same guy. I used to contribute regularly to Stickman (original) and I even tried to carry that over to Fakeman II-I sent him a story about the elephants and ladyboys in Soi 4 (look it up in the archives) but he changed some fundamentals and the style wasn’t there and I have never written to him again. The real Stickman wasn’t like that. Maybe you write Fakeman II, or maybe someone else, but the original ended an era. If you think the new column has the same integrity, then I am happy for you, but nobody I know in Bangkok bothers. Well, be that at is it may.

    The thing the readership of this blog are looking for is not your passionate defence of male Japanese and their culture, but where they go to play and what they do. I accept you say the ones you know don’t go to the places where ’scum’ like me hang out. But where do they go and what do they do?

    You know, I have to tell you something you may not know. I have been writing for thirty five years and more. Writing, because it is work and requires precision of expression, can reveal a lot about the writer. I see from your writing that you talk a lot about fashion, personal fastidiousness and hygiene, about how farangs (you count yourself as one) are rather slovenly and unhygienic, and how you are not subjected to American-Negro rap in Japanese restaurants (now that is a pretty old-fashione word, I mean Negro, that no native speaker would use these days). You also never include a single anecdote about yourself and the nightlife in Bangkok-even BBK is suspicious about you. As a person dares to write they reveal themselves-interesting, isn’t it?Well, let’s move on.

    Peter4, tell me what you think of the Japanese romantic tradition. Westerners easily fall in love with Thai women and many marry and take them back to their home countries to become citizens and part of the community. Thai women, who want the money and support as you point out, would seem at first glance to prefer this possibility. After all, they can’t sit outside a Japanese club for the rest of theor lives, can they? How many Japanese men marry Thai women?

    Cheers
    View all comments by deeper

23. 23 smitty Jul 29th, 2007 at 11:31 pm

    Hey all. I am going to repeat the warning once more. We don’t want rants berating each other on this blog. I don’t like Mangosauce. It sucked ass in my opinion due to the out of control non contributory commenting. We will just start deleting the comments if we have to but I hate wasting my time like that.

    So try to keep things from getting personal and keep it above the belt.

    We want a busy blog and we want the interaction but we don’t want rants.

    Thanks ever so much!
    View all comments by smitty

24. 24 Peter4 Jul 31st, 2007 at 2:29 am

    On any forum, some of the posts are not worth reading beyond the first paragraph, but BBK’s recent comments are — as always — worth careful consideration.

    First, BBK, I had no intention to “sucker” you or anybody else.
    Sorry, mate, but you took a wrong turn there on the “sucker” idea, one I certainly didn’t intend.
    I hope you will reconsider your opinion.

    My purpose, as always, is to uncover who knows what, and then proceed with a rational discussion from there.
    On the Internet, there are so many who write so much, but know so little.
    Finding someone who observes carefully, and thinks carefully before he writes, is an uncommon pleasure.
    BBK, you are one who does that, and I said as much in several previous posts above.
    I still hold to my high opinion of your ideas and your writing.
    And I will, once again, encourage you to write more on topics such as this one.

    I never suggested “secret” or hidden places.
    That concept appeared from nowhere.
    What I specified were places in Bangkok that are largely unknown to Caucasians; places certainly unknown to those whose world ends at the end of Soi Nana.
    These are areas where I rarely ever see another white face, where the only non-Thais are mainly Japanese, with some Koreans and a few Taiwan Chinese.

    Deeper’s first post made a big deal of the Japanese he sees in Nana and Thermae, but that is not even close to Japanese territory in Bangkok.
    Any Japanese that wander in there are just outliers.

    The way the Japanese operate here is the reason so many TGs prefer their business to ours.
    And it is the reason so many Thai businesses are painting Japanese words onto their shop windows, spending money for new neon in Japanese, adding Japanese language to their menus, adding Japanese food, and stocking Japanese products.
    Those TG and those Thai-owned businesses clearly prefer Japanese customers.

    But Japanese-run nightlife places do not want to attract any and all potential customers.
    If they attract a lot of Caucasian customers, their Japanese regulars will start going elsewhere.

    We Westerners profess to be “anti-racist” but the Japanese haven’t caught on to that concept yet.
    They don’t want to mix with us, and they _really_ don’t want us mixing with their women.
    I observe that every day, in ways big and small.
    It is one of the “truths” about the Japanese in Bangkok.
    Here’s a fresh example:

    Tonight I was eating in a nearby Thai restaurant.
    This restaurant advertises in several Japanese-language guidebooks, and many of the customers — but not all — are Japanese.
    A TG from one of the neighborhood massage shops arrived with a Japanese “date”.
    He was taking her out for a nice diner at a nice place.
    I have been into the massage shop where this girl works at least 50 times over about 5 years.
    She always smiles and greets me warmly, as do the other girls.
    She knows my name, where I come from, what kind of work I do, and the building where I live.
    I have availed myself of her services several times.
    BUT … in the restaurant a few hours ago, suddenly I was a total stranger to her.
    She looked right thru me, walked directly in front of my table to sit at a table only 3 meters from mine.
    Zero acknowledgment of me.
    Not a hint of a smile.
    Nothing.
    Of course not.
    She was in the company of a Japanese customer.
    She is smart enough to know that her Japanese date would not be pleased if she would greet a Caucasian man.

    I don’t take it personally.
    Over the years, many similar incidents.
    The TGs already know the truth about the Japanese, the truth that we white men are just starting to glimpse.

    BBK wrote, “The typical Japanese guy is more discerning, observant, and sophisticated than the typical farang gogo or beer bar customer who can’t figure out why …”
    BBK got that exactly right.
    Some of the other postings on this thread confirm his conclusion.
    View all comments by Peter4

25. 25 Jack Jul 31st, 2007 at 10:29 am

    I realize that topics like this, like many on Bangkok, can result in “flame-wars”…all contributors seem to have strong opinions, that can be a good thing.

    But please read Smitty’s post above: Smitty’s advice IMVHO is always good.

    Let me intro a topic related to this issue: have you guys bought a copy of G-Diary and checked it out? As it is written in Japanese, by Japanese journos living in BKK, for Japanese tourists/residents, it has information even if you can’t read the language. I can read a little, and next time I’m in BKK can pick a copy and try to give an overview. But I’m curious if any of you gents have checked out a copy.

    Thanks again and jai yen-yen, amigos.

    J
    View all comments by Jack

26. 26 smitty Jul 31st, 2007 at 12:20 pm

    Appreciate everyone trying to take the high road here. I think it will make for a better quality site over time.

    Jack - I have picked up G-Diary a few times and there is another new mag out that I have checked out from a new Japanese editor that is selling in Thailand and Japan.

    I guess not reading Japanese, these magazines provide little value to me other than the pics and the locations of some places I did not know about. The detail is amazing compared to similar Farang style magazines.
    View all comments by smitty

27. 27 Jack Jul 31st, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    Cool beans, Smitty, bring it along next time we meet up and I’ll try to glean what I can.

    When I worked in BKK I kept trying to interest freelance journos in befriending Japanese residents or better yet, the publishers of G-D and the boxing mag and doing a feature. Never cd get anyone to make the connection, but it wd be a good read, methinks.

    Yr so right about the detail. Japanese customers, as pointed out elsewhere, expect high quality/cleanliness/detail. Just standard-operating-procedure for the most part.

    I’ll try to find the translations done years back, or contact the original maniac, see if he’d be up for more translations. Of course, since he does it for a living, it’s like asking any professional to work for free just to amuse u…not always best-practice!

    BTW, the Thai-made Kewpie mayo is a dead-ringer for the original J-version…then again, so’s the Korean version, and now, the Chinese version, which I buy at my local supermarket in Hong Kong.

    J
    View all comments by Jack

28. 28 Jack Jul 31st, 2007 at 1:33 pm

    G-Diary descrips in English (found a couple). NOTE that Family Mart is a Japanese-owned chain:

    Thai cathouses coming to a convenience store near you
    February 20, 2004
    http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/archive/news/2004/02/20040220p2g00m0dm998000c.html

    Japanese sex tours have long helped prop up the cathouses of Southeast Asia, so it should come as little surprise that from next month guys will need look no further than their local convenience store to catch up on the goings on of Bangkok’s brothels and bordellos, according to Shukan Shincho (2/26). G-Diary, the “G” standing for “gentlemen’s” is a glossy Japanese language monthly published in Thailand and devoted to that country’s netherworld.

    G-Diary will go on sale for 680 yen an issue at Family Mart convenience stores in Tokyo, Kanagawa, Chiba and Saitama prefectures starting March 15.

    “Its contents are basically adventure travel stories,” publisher Hidetoshi Usui tells Shukan Shincho. “We cover information on the mainstream and underground of all Southeast Asian countries. We’d like people to see it as travel stories for something out of the ordinary or a virtual experience of a different dimension.”

    Since first hitting shelves in Thailand five years ago, G-Diary has grown to a circulation of about 8,000.

    “One of the other top features of this magazine is its deep coverage of nighttime entertainment. It’s packed with ads from Bangkok bordellos and could also be used as a guidebook for sex joints in the Thai capital.

    It was originally intended to be only a travel magazine, but more than half our readers now buy for the information on the flesh trade,” Usui tells Shukan Shincho.

    Thailand is an enormously popular destination for Japanese tourists and long-term dwellers. Only the United States and Singapore have more overseas Japanese residents than Thailand. About 1.2 million Japanese head to the Land of Smiles every year.

    “We’re already selling G-Diary in about 500 bookstores in Japan, mostly in Tokyo, and we decided to sell it in (2,500) Family Mart outlets to increase people’s awareness of it,” Usui tells Shukan Shincho. “If sales go well, we’ll start offering it at convenience stores throughout the whole country.”
    +++++++++++++++++++
    It’s all about prostitutes & gogo-bars!
    http://www.maxasia.net/2007/07/07/its-all-about-prostitutes-gogo-bars/

    I always knew it was useful to be able to read Japanese! Last day I came across this incredible magazine: Gdiary! You know, I already tried to list some sort of Bangkok “hot zones”, but what’s better than complete maps, reviews and even discount coupons???

    Yeah, Japanese truly are professionals: they have a dedicated (”entertainment”) road plus thousands of other “japanese-only” massages… but still, they have a magazine for them in which they list every single establishment (Massage Parlours, Go-go Bars, Salons, SM shows and the like), put them all on maps (Bangkok: Soi Taniya, Patpong, Ratchadapisek, Soi Cowboy, … but also Pattaya) and give instructions in thai for the taxi drivers!

    Priceless.
    View all comments by Jack

29. 29 Peter4 Jul 31st, 2007 at 3:11 pm

    Thanks, Jack, for that excellent information.
    (Obviously another man who knows his way around.)

    One of Jack’s links above has a further link to the treasure map.
    Not a perfect map — and somewhat outdated — but better than nothing.

    As you look over the map, several things to notice immediately:

    Nana is rather small compared to the other areas.
    Cowboy and Suk 23 are merely a dim blur, and I don’t think that is accurate.
    But what this map shows is that Nana is merely a rather modest area, compared to so much else that is available in Bangkok.
    That is why I stated that the expertise of the Nana experts ends at the end of Soi 4.

    The map must be rather old, because it shows nothing for the huge and busy area to the East and to the North of Emporium: Suk 24, 26, 33, 39 and Prommitr.

    The Petchaburi area is certainly much more extensive than shown.

    The area around Huai-Kwang (centered on Emerald Hotel, and stretching South to Rama 9 station) is massive, but the map doesn’t show much there.

    I was surprised to see any activity at all in middle Eckamai.
    That area is such a low-level slum that I would be surprised if many Japanese spend much time there.
    Do the Japanese have their Cheap-Charlies, too?
    I don’t know.

    But BBK’s original post was not about “where” the Japanese go; it was about how they operate when they do go out.
    And that is the heart of the matter.
    In one post above, Kenny suggested, “I think it would be fun to get a haircut, put on a coat and tie, splash on some cologne, take 10,000 THB and sample some fun—Japanese style.”
    I shall offer a counter-point to that:
    A Japanese man will already have the haircut, not need to get one.
    Cologne will be irrelevant to him, because he never thinks about impressing a girl:
    He is renting the girl.
    He is the customer.
    The girl does everything she can to impress him.

    The essential factor is not how they dress, it’s about their way of doing things.
    TG in those places are trained and attuned to the Japanese way.
    Your white face won’t counter-balance the best haircut or the most expensive cologne.
    10,000 baht in your wallet won’t make too much of an impression either.
    You are not Japanese.
    You don’t fit in that world.
    And neither do I.

    I’ve discovered a few places in my neighborhood where the staff is polite and friendly when I arrive.
    And the service is almost always to a high standard.
    But when a group of Japanese men arrives at the door, that’s when the staffs go into high-gear.
    It’s easy to observe: The TG really want the Japanese business.
    They politely tolerate ours, or, in some cases, turn us away at the door.
    BBK’s original post provided an excellent start on explaining why.

    Okay, lads, here is the map:

    http://tinyurl.com/2a8ukx
    View all comments by Peter4

30. 30 Σ(゜ー゜;) Aug 1st, 2007 at 11:14 am

    ですね・・ｗ

    ほんとですか？
    View all comments by Σ(゜ー゜;)

31. 31 Jack Aug 2nd, 2007 at 9:31 am

    For those confused by the Japanese entry, he basically said:
    “hmm…is that so…really?”

    I can’t read the name of this gentleman, but if he can read/write Japanese, perhaps he would care to share his views with the rest of the contributors.

    Thanks, or in other words:
    Hajimemashite, dozo yoroshiku. Watashi no namae wa Jakku desu. Anata wa?

    Romaji to Eigo ga ii…gambarimasu! Dozo, onegaishimasu.

    J
    View all comments by Jack

32. 32 anon Aug 3rd, 2007 at 10:05 am

    has it occured to you that some TGs just prefer asian clientele?
    View all comments by anon

33. 33 Tokyo Joe Aug 3rd, 2007 at 11:45 pm

    That’s exactly right Anon. When I was in high school I wouldn’t even take a second look at a girl if she wasn’t a blue eyed blonde. Asian girls didn’t register at all at that time. I’m sure it’s true for many of us farangs.
    It’s the same for Asians. It’s natural to be attracted to people that look similar to you. We (farangs chasing Asian skirts) are the exceptions, I think a lot of us forget that sometimes.
    Watch Thai TV and you’ll see a huge amount of Japanese, Korean and Chinese TV series that have been dubbed into Thai.
    Next time you’re in a Nana gogo watch the reaction of the girls as different types of customers walk in the door. By far the biggest reaction comes when young, good looking Japanese boys walk in.
    I would guess that a large chunk of the Thai female population don’t think we’re the “handsome men” that we’re sometimes lead to believe we are, and would much rather be with a fellow Asian.

    Another point that most of you seem to miss here is that if things are so peachy-pie in the Japanese end of the market, why did the Japanese start moving into the traditionally farang areas. 10-15 years ago there were no Japanese in Nana and Soi Cowboy. Now both areas have bars catering predominately for Japanese customers, and Thermae sounds like it’s also become a Japanese venue.
    I would guess that there was a realisation some time ago that we farangs were getting a better deal in our areas then they were in their’s. Word got around and more and more a turning up.
    I’m not about to complain however, because I think they also brought with them a large number of girls that we wouldn’t otherwise get to see.
    View all comments by Tokyo Joe

34. 34 smitty Aug 4th, 2007 at 1:59 pm

    TJ - 2 great points. I do however think that if your Thai is decent enough to talk to these girls who go with the Japanese they like them for what they are as customers. Very few Thai girls like them as boyfriends. But the Thais do think the good looking Japanese and Korean men are superstars. I think you will find that sure they like the Asian men but the Thai girls will mention they like how Farangs in general, not always, tend to not treat women the way a lot of the Asian men do where women are basically considered a second class.

    Let me give u an example:

    I used to sell software to large Korean companies in Seoul. I was out one night with your typical middle to upper class Korean men having a night out on the booze. Almost all were married. None of them called their wives to say they would be late. Over drinks they told me a story of what it means to be a good Korean wife. They said the worst Korean wife would expect that if their baby cried in the middle of the night the husband would take turns to deal with it. An okay Korean wife might let the husband wake up but would not expect her husband to actually do anything. The best Korean wife would make sure her husband never heard the baby cry.

    This may be an extreme example but I think the analogy is pretty much how Korean men think.

    Most Farang men do not have that view of women and I think the Asian girls who know the difference actually prefer Farang men due to this.

    Let’s face it though in the bar scene it is mostly all about economics except where the girls are using the bar scene as a means to find a husband.

    On the Japanese moving to the Farang venues that is something I was always curious about. How, why and when that happened is intriguing.
    View all comments by smitty

35. 35 Jack Aug 5th, 2007 at 1:21 pm

    thanks for the observations, Smitty: from what i know of Korean and Japanese men, not an extreme example. very, very male-dominant societies. while this may sound positive in some respects, after you spend some time there it becomes nauseating. i could go on about this at length, but won’t.

    as for why Japanese/Koreans are moving into traditionally farang areas, i think it’s natural evolution. the younger generation aren’t into the whole hostess-bar thing found on Soi Thaniya. younger Japanese are after all, guys, and they like Thai women and sex with Thai women just like we farangs do. some Thai women have learned that if they can learn a bit of the language and learn what these guys like, they can capture them in either Short Ball or Long Ball scenarios (kinda like those terms).

    there are exceptions. there are Thai women who learn to speak Japanese very, very well and work that end of the market (a couple i’ve spoken with have traveled to Japan and worked there). and there are Japanese guys who are into BDSM, sometimes to an extreme degree. when i lived in Japan and saw some of the publications and flyers shoved under my door i got an idea of just how kinky *some* Japanese can be. i’ve get nothing against kink as long as it’s between consulting adults under whatever arrangement they choose to make. but i’ve had more than a few Thai women tell me they have had requests from Japanese guys they considered repulsive, and were clearly put off.

    j
    View all comments by Jack

36. 36 BigBabyKenny Aug 5th, 2007 at 6:38 pm

    I think you sell the Bangkok bar scene short including GoGo’s and Beerbars but especially FL TG’s.

    It is not all about the economics if what you mean by economics is sex for money.

    IMHO there is no hard line between women who are banging for money and those who are “doing it for love”. In The World, the women are banging for money just as much as the Biergarten FL.

    In The World, Long Balling is for some reason considered more moral than Short Balling and admitting that your are Long Balling or Short Balling is met with two faced gasps of horror.

    In the World as well as the Biergarten the women are looking for a BBD (that’s L.A. speak for Bigger Better Deal). The only differences are that the women in Thailand are a lot sexier than the women in The World and have had the misfortune to have been born into a worse socio-economics situation—neither of which they had any control over. Thai women start their lives in a worse situation but they are just looking for a better life using the same methods as the women in The World who IMHO falsely consider themselves morally superior the TG’s.
    View all comments by BigBabyKenny

37. 37 Tokyo Joe Aug 5th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

    The whole “Asian treatment of women” issue might be a big factor for many intelligent, thoughtful and slightly older girls looking for husbands, but somehow I suspect that your average 18-20 year-old bar-girl is still thinking at a much more superficial level.
    When a guy who looks a bit like ‘Bi Rain’ walks into the bar, I can guarantee that non of them are thinking “will he get up in the middle of the night to feed the baby?”. - They’re thinking “if I walk out of the bar on this guy’s arm I’m going to be the envy of almost every girl on the street.

    Relatively few people in the West have the courage to go against the cultural pressures to conform placed upon them by their family and peers. I would have thought that this is even more true in the East.
    View all comments by Tokyo Joe

38. 38 Jack Aug 5th, 2007 at 11:16 pm

    BBK: i think we’re largely in agreement, in any case, agree with yr latest post. but of course, as those American car ads used to say: “your mileage may vary”…i’m a big fan of TG FLs and when i found one i liked (when i was living in BKK) i wd stay in touch with her. mostly it was: come over, let’s have fun, and after a few hours you’ll go one with yr life and i with mine. it was a great arrangement that i miss (there’s a lot about living in Thailand i DON’T miss, but no place is perfect). one FL i befriended seemed to have no inhibitions in private, so i once suggested we have sex on the balcony during a typical Bangkok thundershower. you couldn’t see the building across the trok (small soi) but she still balked, so i guess…well, that wasn’t regarded as “private” now was it?

    one thing i wd caution everyone against is generalizing about Asian culture, and any blanket East vs West concepts. from my experience, there’s a great deal of diff depending on the locale. i live in Hong Kong where women are often in positions of power: in government, private enterprise, the police force, whatever. there’s more males in biz and more females dealing with kids, but other than that, not much fuss is made about gender-equality. very, very different from Japan. but city-states like Hong Kong and Singapore are islands of functionality and competence in their respective regions. u expect a more international level of standards, and u get it. these places are also value-added which means u pay more for just about everything.

    but. Cambodian culture has a lot in common with Thai culture but don’t confuse the two: the recent histories of these countries has led them down different paths. Vietnam is another story. although i do feel it’s dangerous to generalize, in general, Asian cultures are more conservative and group-oriented than the west, and less hung up on political correctness and sexual correctness. not trying to yank anyone’s chain here, just stating what i’ve observed and read. that said, i think it’s a mistake to lump Asian cultures together. there’s a lot of territory, a lot of history and an awful lot of people.

    and don’t underestimate Thai women, no matter what their socioeconomic level. they learn fast.

    j
    View all comments by Jack

39. 39 hanuman Aug 7th, 2007 at 6:26 pm

    Since 1996 I used to go the thermae for a late drink and female companionship. Great was my surprise when I went there last year. The place was packed with Japanese men and the women didn’t even pay attention to me nor to my friend. They were all focused on the Japanese customers. So we left after one drink. I understand it is mostly about the money but I think that the Japanese spoiled it for us with the prices they pay for LT or ST.
    View all comments by hanuman

40. 40 smitty Aug 8th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

    I find thermae to be pretty good right now and it is the best hanging outside right after they close. Buyers market.
    View all comments by smitty

41. 41 Bangkok Bad Boy Aug 8th, 2007 at 3:19 pm

    Thermae’s unofficially segregated now, or so it seems to me.

    Front-half (towards the bar) for farangs, back half for Japanese. But yes, what a transformation over the past year or so.
    View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy

42. 42 Young Royal Aug 9th, 2007 at 3:42 am

    Wow…..I haven’t read the blog for about two months and its taking a long long time to catch up. I made it out of the LOS’s and it wasn’t easy. I loved this blog because it always made me laugh and it had none of the bickering of MS. While i’m catching up I have noticed a lot of bickering creeping in. I guess thats as the blogs popularity has grown it’s kind of inevitable. Anyway just read Jacks comment about not grouping the Asian cultures togther. It’s a good one but I have never liked the way the Western cultures are grouped together under Farang. Coming from the UK I don’t even really think of us as European as where completely different than anywhere on the mainland and there all completely different too.

    Smitty - had tears of laughter reading about your ping pong ball scam.

    I usually go out with a very mixed group and find this always throws the girls off. A mix of Westerners (UK/USA), Japanese, Burmese and Thais’. The looks going into R4 are great. Where all smartly dressed young guys (mid 20’s). They are all so interested in what and why where together. Gets loads of attention. Then off to a club and the girls are driven in new cars as opposed to Taxi’s. I miss it but will be back soon.

    Peace
    View all comments by Young Royal

43. 43 ฝรั่งเศส Aug 9th, 2007 at 4:27 am

    “I have never liked the way the Western cultures are grouped together under Farang” -> have never liked it either. Thais even put Russians in the category ‘farang’. Nothing against Russians but we definitely cannot say that Americans, for example, have much in common with them…
    But actually, if you ask a middle-class Texan who has never been anywhere else “what is the capital city of Africa?”, my guess is he won’t see any problem except that he does not know the answer…
    View all comments by ฝรั่งเศส

44. 44 bkk22 Aug 9th, 2007 at 11:08 am

    I to don’t like the grouping of “Farang”…Americans, British, Aussies, everyone is different however to be fair many foreigners, at least Americans, tend to group Asians as one. We know for sure there is a big difference between Japanese, Thai, Chinese, Singaporean, etc…so I think it goes both ways.

    (I’m American and my less traveled friends do this all the time)
    View all comments by bkk22

45. 45 Jack B Aug 12th, 2007 at 9:18 pm

    Yeah, generalization can go a long way. Earlier this year I had the chance to visit eastern Europe for the first time: Prague, and a short trip to Poland (Warsaw/Krakow). This is former Soviet-bloc territory that’s just now become part of the EU and is realizing that becoming like Western Europe is where the future lies. Fascinating, and I’d love a return visit, maybe next year.

    BUT. Even though my phenotype (I’m American and my father’s from eastern Europe) was unexceptional, I was struck by how different phenotypes were in that part of the world. A lot of homogeneity (95% Caucasian) but not Anglo-American. Hard to explain until you travel there, but these were people from a culture foreign to me *and* Thais. Yet if they saw me and a Czech or Pole walking down the street, it would just be a couple of “farang.”

    My favorite thing to do is to hang out with my friend Deputy Dawg in Bangkok. He’s from San Francisco and ethnic Chinese, but looks very, very Thai. He’s studied the language and can speak reasonably well, so when we hang out, it’s a lotta fun. When chatting up girls, first I tell him he’s “my brother” (why not?), then after he speaks a bit of Thai I say, we’re American, so that makes us brothers! It’s absurd but it really is a lot of fun–would be even more fun to go out with a big group, then I could have “cousins”!

    JtB
    View all comments by Jack B

46. 46 Jack B Aug 19th, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    I found the translations from G-Diary. These two items are about the G-D staff going to Phnom Penh in 2001, via Poipet. They ran into some…trouble, and our fearless translator is quick with some commentary.

    Note that our friend here translates into colloquial North American English which is how G-Diary ought to be interpreted, IMHO. Anyway, off we go, with a bunch of young Bangkok-based Japanese lads getting waaaaay outta their comfort-zone, heh heh heh:
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    EXCLUSIVE: Unauthorized translation from G Diary special edition on Cambodia

    Posted By: NAME AND EMAIL DELETED Date: 11/12/01 16:05

    This is the first of a series (I hope) of unauthorized translations from the most recent issue of G Diary, a Japanese-language magazine on pussy published in Bangkok. The first story isn’t about pussy, it’s about a misadventure at the border. I’m picking out vignettes that I think are funny or interesting or seem to shed light on the way the Japanese whoremongers see things.

    Out of One Country, Into the Next

    We left Bangkok at 7 am and arrived at Hat Lek, on the border with Cambodia, at 2 in the afternoon.

    So far, so good. In just a little while, we can relax. I want a beer, I thought, and soon!

    How little we knew. We didn’t reckon on the consequences of having a certain Keitaro Sathorn in our crew. We had completely forgotten something about this guy. (Why this guy has a Japanese first name and a Thai last name I don’t know. Maybe it’s a pseudonym.—TRANSLATOR)

    The fact is, Keitaro Sathorn had previously gone to Poi Pet in Cambodia on a visa run and had completely ignored Cambodian immigration on his way back to Thailand. In other words, he had gotten his passport stamped out of Thailand and into Cambodia, but hadn’t gotten a stamp from Cambodia on his way back into Thailand.

    What an asshole. And the Thai immigration authorities gave him an entry stamp without bothering to check whether he’d cleared Cambodian immigration or not! That’s the other piss-off about this story. “Well, it’s not exactly, regulations,” the Thai authorities figured, “but on the other hand what’s the difference?” What you have to remember is that the Thais have zero respect for the Cambodians and take the piss out of them every chance they get. They don’t think of Cambodia as a proper country at all. If you want to visit a place like Cambodia, fine, up to you – they couldn’t give a shit whether you get their little stamp in your passport or not.

    And so it was that the rest of us got caught up in Keitaro Sathorn’s tragedy (or should I say farce?). Officially, Keitaro Sathorn had never left Cambodia. And yet here he was again, applying for permission to enter a country which presumably he had never left! This was the situation we were faced with.

    Look, I figured, it’s Cambodia, right? They’re not going to bother to check. He can just slip in and nobody will be the wiser. But no such luck. These immigration guys were professionals. They didn’t miss a trick.

    “Apparently you never left Cambodia. How come you’re standing here asking to enter?”

    A fair question. Who the fuck did this guy think he was?

    Under the immigration cops’ withering glare, Keitaro Sathorn’s face turned pale. Naturally, he was escorted to a separate room. To extract a bribe, of course. The only question was what figure they would arrive at. Keitaro Sathorn sat at the desk with a mystified look on his face. Across from him sat two stern-faced immigration officers. From time to time during the interrogation, the officers would stand up and call somebody on their cell phones. An hour passed with no visible progress.

    I was starting to wonder how long this charade was going to take. He’s told you all there is to know, just tell us how much you want. It’s all about the money, after all.

    While I was thinking these thoughts, one of the immigration officers took Keitaro Sathorn’s passport and buggered off on his motorcycle, supposedly to make a photocopy. An immigration office without a single photocopier? Probably they’ve taken it to make a fake duplicate of his passport, I mused. I’d place more trust in a monkey than these Cambodian civil service guys. If I’m going to trust these characters, I might as well not sweat about giving the parking lot attendants in Bangkok the keys to my car! Takahashi (another member of their sorry crew – TRANSLATOR) started getting nervous, and kept going in and out of the interrogation room to translate.

    Well, it’s a learning experience I suppose. I’ll admit I didn’t do anything to help. On the other hand, we had now been here an hour and a half and I was getting pissed.

    Finally the officer who had left to photocopy Keitaro Sathorn’s passport returned. No doubt they had finished forging the duplicate passport. A while later, we saw Keitaro Sathorn making an impression of his thumb on some kind of document, in effect to fingerprint him. Then he was made to sign it. The immigration officers eyeballed his handwriting closely for several seconds, probably so he could memorize the way he writes. Now that they had all his personal information, some Cambodian guy would probably be traveling the world soon carrying a facsimile of Keitaro Sathorn’s passport. Two hours had now passed…

    Suddenly the immigration officers released Keitaro Sathorn – without demanding so much as a penny!

    Huh? What’s going on? They handed him a leaflet, which explained how he mustn’t cross the border without being duly processed and what trouble it could cause. Now I was deeply puzzled. This was the last thing I expected to happen at a Cambodian border crossing, where extortion of bribes on trumped-up charges and arbitrary “visa fees” are a matter of course. Maybe the Cambodians had woken up and wanted to join the community of modern nations. I decided that it was time to raise my estimation of the Cambodian people.

    Next: Our home boys get mugged in Phnom Penh

    Part 2 of the unauthorized translation: The G Diary boyz get mugged (PIC)

    Posted By: NAME AND EMAIL DELETED Date: 11/16/01 18:11

    Money! Money! Money!

    After we’d been in Martini’s for about two hours, (This section follows a description of Martini’s. Unfortunately I didn’t see any interesting observations, and none of them seems to have taken any girls. In fact, G Diary seems remarkably reticent about describing “the main event.” –TRANSLATOR) we decided it was time to bail. We exited the bar and returned to Monivhon St. It was just past midnight—the most dangerous time of all to be walking around Phnom Penh. But there were five of us, so we weren’t worried in the least. The Kaigun massage parlor and the brothels of 63rd Street were all open and plying their trade. We’d already been up and down this street many times. “I wouldn’t want to walk this street alone,” we kept saying to each other, “anybody walking around here alone at this time of night would be sure to get mugged,” and so on.

    Cassy and I (This is a guy. Where does he get a stupid name like Cassy?—TRANSLATOR) were at the front of the group, looking at each other, chatting and laughing. We weren’t looking ahead of us at all. Even though the street was absolutely pitch black, our state of alertness was zero. And then–!

    Suddenly two men appeared in front of us.

    “Hey, stop!”

    At first we didn’t understand what was happening. These two men were confronting us, each holding a pistol in one hand. The guns glinted a cold silver in the utterly black night. For a moment I fondly hoped that somehow this was a joke. No, it was for real. We were being mugged.

    Only a few moments ago we two idiots, Cassy and I, had been strolling along, laughing like jackals and trading jokes. Next thing I knew, I had the business end of a pistol thrust into my gut. I was completely caught unawares.

    “They’re going to shoot us!” I thought for a moment.

    The two of us at the front of the group were caught. But the three at the back of the pack were a little separated from us two and our assailants, so they screamed and ran off with all their might. I would have run too, if I could, but there was no way. Not that I can’t run fast, but the gun was stuck right in my stomach. At the slightest movement, I was sure he would have pulled the trigger.

    Without thinking, I started to twist and squirm, but the gun stayed planted firmly in my gut. This is seriously dangerous, I thought. He could easily pull the trigger by accident. I started to shake uncontrollably. I wished he would take that gun out of my stomach, but even if he did I wouldn’t really have been any better off. At this point-blank range, there was no chance of escape. “Money, money, money!” my assailants screamed.

    Just then I recalled that I had heard of an American tourist getting killed at this very spot. (In the magazine a map is provided. It’s a side street off Monivhon Rd, between Monivhon and 63rd Street, between a store called Big A and the Kaigun massage parlor mentioned earlier. “Kaigun” is Japanese for “Navy,” so it may be a Japanese-only place. First one to find out for sure earns a beer from me.—TRANSLATOR) Ooooh, shit.

    As they listened to the yelps of my retreating friends, my attackers started to think about their own situation. Three guys had run away and would no doubt be calling for help. They probably wanted to get out of here almost as fast as I did. They might shoot me just to make a quicker getaway. I meekly handed over my camera and money. First, I gave them my camera kit (one SLR camera, exchangeable lenses and a flash. A loss of about eight hundred bucks US). Then the robber started frisking me, which is when I took out my wallet and handed it to him. I didn’t want him to find my money belt, which contained my passport. As soon as he had my wallet in his hands, he backed away a few paces to examine the contents. My chance to escape! I thought. But I didn’t move. Instead, I asked him to please let me keep just my credit card.

    He came right back. My wallet held only twenty dollars US and 500 baht. If that wasn’t enough to satisfy him, he might stick the gun in my stomach again.

    What was I thinking? What’s more important, my credit card or my life?

    As he continued to count my money, I turned and ran like a motherfucker. (When I checked later, I found that my credit cards were all in the money belt anyway.

    Needless to say I had no idea where Cassy and the rest had gone, since there was no opportunity to look behind me.

    I found out later that Cassy had also handed over his cash and camera real peaceable-like, but unfortunately for him, his passport had been in his camera bag. He begged the muggers to just let him have his passport back, and got pistol-whipped across the head for his trouble.

    Naturally, my own life is more valuable to me than Cassy’s, so I hauled ass out to Monivhon St. with all the strength I had. Next thing I noticed, as I ran along Monivhon, was a motorbike drawing up alongside me. I was sure it was one of the muggers, so I floored it. In the best days of my youth I could run the 100-meter dash in less than 12 seconds. That day I think I outdid my personal best. Then I heard footsteps running after me. I grunted and poured on the power. Later I realized that it was Cassy running after me, not the muggers, but there was no way to tell at the time. Finally I realized that I was now on a busy street and there was no way the attackers were going to come after me here.

    I crossed the street and entered our hotel. Cassy and I at last set eyes on each other and realized we were both OK, but Cassy lamented that he had been robbed of his company camera, (That is, the camera belongs to the publishers of G Diary. These guys are organized just like the New York Times!—TRANSLATOR) his entire net worth (about 7,000 baht) and his hotel key.

    Somehow, though, Cassy managed to hang onto his passport. Typical Kyushu guy, he’s got to get his own back somehow, even if it’s just a little bit. On the other hand, his head hurt like a bitch, as he continually reminded me for the next several days.

    Later, the other three guys who had run off returned to the hotel on the backs of motorbikes, accompanied by a policeman brandishing a shotgun. “Thank God you’re OK!”

    We all let out a breath of relief. Now Cassy and I learned what had transpired after these three had fled.

    They ran into the closest port in a storm, the Kaigun massage parlor (to call for help, I presume!—TRANSLATOR)As luck would have it, a policeman pulled up on his motorcycle at the same time, to help himself to a soapy. When the three boyz asked for his help, the cop shrugged and said, “So you got mugged, eh? That’s a drag. But I came here to get a massage and that’s just what I’m going to do. Buh-bye.”

    “What about us?” they cried, following the cop into the body-rub joint to press their case. But after all I’d seen of Cambodian cops, I was not in the least surprised. Well do I remember an incident some time ago in which I was surrounded by five policemen in Phnom Penh, who told me, “We haven’t had a proper meal yet today. You’re Japanese, you’re loaded. Give us five or ten dollars so we can get a meal.”

    A Frenchman I once met explained to me, “When I got held up, I visited the police station the next day to file a report. Guess who was sitting at the reception desk? The same fucker who’d mugged me the night before!” In Cambodia, the cops wear uniforms during the day, then take them off and go robbing people at night. As far as I was concerned these guys could plead all they wanted, the cops here are worse than useless.

    This cop with the shotgun was no different. He showed up when the staff of the Kaigun called for help on our behalf, but he didn’t seem to be listening to our complaints at all. In fact he was so gapped out that he looked like he was about to drool all over his police uniform. He looked like he was waiting for some kind of thanks or tip for going to the trouble of coming all the way out here just for our lucky selves. But there was obviously no point in telling him that he was a policeman and this was his job. We might as well just treat these Cambodian cops as ordinary citizens with a uniform fetish.

    All I can say is we learned a lesson: NO WALKING AROUND PHNOM PENH AFTER EIGHT PM! I’d been told this so many times, and heard so many stories of foreigners being robbed, beaten and murdered. Muggers operate with impunity, it’s as natural as catching a bus here, and if you get rolled it’s your own fault and your own business.

    These guys should be congratulated for calling themselves foreigners. Most Japanese talk like Americans did in the ‘50s, referring to locals as “foreigners” when they go overseas.—TRANSLATOR

    I guess I was just too used to life in Thailand. I can’t deny that living in Thailand for so long caused me to drop my guard when visiting other countries. A travel destination should be thought of as a war zone. I need to leave Thailand from time to time to keep my wits sharp.
    View all comments by Jack B

47. 47 myspace.com/penfold_xxx Aug 19th, 2007 at 5:58 pm

    to the japs credit, they are usually very well presented (unlike some of the fat ferang freaks busting out of there polo shirts, chinos and sandals) and i am yet to see 1 manhandle and molest the girls like a piece of meat which is more then i can say for an albeit small but in my view still too big percentage of the embarrassing ferangs that should be shot on sight
    View all comments by myspace.com/penfold_xxx

48. 48 Daddy Aug 22nd, 2007 at 6:41 am

    LOL with reading this thread and these posts.

    I am a White American.

    I shower twice a day (when I wake and before I bed).
    Also, quite often I shower after a swim and afternoon delights.

    I have been to Thailand many times. I have also been all over Europe, Asia, Mexico, Central America, South America, North America, and Canada.

    Never have I ever paid for a piece of ass ever, and I hook-up everywhere I go.

    I am too good looking and have too much to give to a girl to ever pay for ass.

    Girls may get money from some boys, but when it comes to honey they always come to give it to Daddy.

    Let me put it this way -

    Thai girls collect money from Japanese guys, but they are not wanting to leave Thailand to run off with them elsewhere.

    I have never paid for ass anywhere, but many a girl has wanted to me to stay with them and/or come back with me.

    Now - back to the real question ‘are Japanese guys driving up the price?’

    Probably so, but only ugly guys and whimps who pay for it care about that.
    View all comments by Daddy

49. 49 Combover Aug 22nd, 2007 at 8:54 am

    I think the last post was written by a woman.
    View all comments by Combover

50. 50 Bangkok Bad Boy Aug 22nd, 2007 at 8:58 am

    Or a retard.
    View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy

51. 51 Combover Aug 22nd, 2007 at 9:00 am

    Or that femgirl blogger bloke.
    View all comments by Combover

52. 52 Anderson Cooper Aug 22nd, 2007 at 10:32 am

    In Thailand we do not pay to be with women, we pay them to leave.
    View all comments by Anderson Cooper

53. 53 Daddy Aug 22nd, 2007 at 10:50 am

    LOL

    But you still pay them, and the price is negotiated up front along with a bar fine in most cases.
    View all comments by Daddy

54. 54 Daddy Aug 23rd, 2007 at 12:11 am

    anyway, let’s get this rolling in the right direction

    supply and demand is always the name of the game anywhere

    since the onslaught of Japanese and Chinese guys in Thailand the he/she popolution has grown out of control

    supply and demand is in play

    the Japanese and Chinese guys have had to live with the ‘man is the sky’ stigma under repressive conditions for far too long, so when let loose from it………….

    and here lies the true reason why they are ‘more secretive’ (back room and exclusive clubs), and why they keep searching ’selectively’ until they get the right one - a he/she
    View all comments by Daddy

55. 55 Daddy Aug 24th, 2007 at 5:22 am

    LOL

    but I don’t think it matters if it is Anderson Cooper - considering, it was an ok comback, and lent food for thought
    though, it was easy to affect with just a little realism
    View all comments by Daddy

56. 56 Khun Leigh Aug 24th, 2007 at 12:01 pm

    Really enjoyed the info and opinion on Japanese in Bangkok. Like many westerners I am often guilty of assuming that all Japanese men act in the same way. Its good to know that there are some discerning Japanese men who enjoy chatting up the gals and choose based on quality. I must disagree with the author’s depiction of the Rainbow bars in Nana Plaza. The Mamasan carries a flashlight in Rainbow and shines it in the face of any gal selected by a Japanese man(and ONLY for a Japanese customer)and she is forced to come down off the stage and sit with the man. Many gals in Rainbow tell me that they very much appreciate the fact thet the Japanese men dont want to talk-they just want to do the business and then she’s gone. A guy in my building lives with a gal he met in Rainbow 4 and she often tells me about her 1 1/2 years there. She says that most Japanese guys dont even ask her for her name. Its 100% business. This is great for the gals and many like the fast and easy money. All this only goes to prove that there are many different kinds of Japanese guys the same as there are many different kinds of Western guys. Some guys want to party, chat, discover something about the gal etc. Some guys just want to get down to business. Again, many thanks to the author for a thoughtful presentation.
    View all comments by Khun Leigh

57. 57 Combover Aug 24th, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    Younger Japanese are not the stereotypical waxworks that their parents were, and party like anyone else.
    View all comments by Combover

58. 58 the sandman Aug 29th, 2007 at 12:53 am

    I think that although the Japanese may push prices up they may also push up standards of service and beauty. At MPs you can always tell which girls have been trained by japanese men. I have also found this to be true of Chinese whores in the Middle East. Also- The Thai and Japanese men like finer features, lighter skin, sharper noses, better figures etc…………I always try to get hold of that Japanese G mag for addresses of interesting establishment such as the Cos Play club around Silom and the the After/Playschool around Soi 66. But when i go there i will put my beautiful suit on and behave in a non farang way. I may even try and find a a japanese looking girl to go with. I understand why the Thai girls prefer Thai and Japanese men. We only get them cos of our money most of the time………..IMHO if you want classy young TGs find out where the Japs go. The points made about the hygene standards of Farang men and their awful dress sense is valid. But If the Japanese are pushing up the prices in Thailand so do the farangs in Cambodia….Fool farangs from thailand have pushed the price of a a khymer girl up from one dollar to twenty………A few years ago you got them for free ..just a bowl of noodles and and a safe place to sleep in…………..But what i could not find on this thread was the most important issue of all………….Where to get your hands on Japanese girls in Thailand…………? Anybody any ideas? Anybody know about the Cos Play G clubs around BK?
    View all comments by the sandman

59. 59 the sandman Aug 29th, 2007 at 12:57 am

    Oh………..and regarding safety in cambodia….If you wish to go anywhere interesting you must have a bodyguard……otherwise you end up on the hacknied/backpacker travel guide trail and dont see anything really…. but the best places definitely are too dangerous to go without a Bodyguard………………I have booked mine for my trip in two weeks time…………..the same guy for nine years……
    View all comments by the sandman

60. 60 the sandman Aug 29th, 2007 at 1:11 am

    Oh and I don’t think it is a good idea to negotiate her tip up front……It’s a Tip and a Tip depends on the quality of service. If a BG wants to know how much I will pay her in advance I always grill her about her skills, how many shots will get, does she do Anal…Is her pussy really tight…….etc etc. Then and only then would i agree to fixed fee……But would not pay it if she was crap in bed…….I just dump their clothes outside the door and call security………..Always remember how the Thai Guys treat their women and how thai women have a tendency to try to exploit Western men……..That being said I am very generous to a girl who looks after me well and pay more than most so i get them again if i want them…………I have found the Chinese whores out here in the ME who give the best service don’t demand a fixed fee but work for their tip and so get more………..
    View all comments by the sandman

61. 61 Daddy Aug 29th, 2007 at 3:54 am

    Sandflea, get a grip on reality!

    The Japanese guys NEED to grrrrrrrooooooooooooooooooooom and manicure themselves like ladies, and then pay more to get those Thai girls to even take their money.

    Those Thai girls don’t mind all too much because they get paid more for playing with little ones - I’d say it’s kind of like doing a little kid a favor while getting paid premium for it.

    I am just stating reality, and I am not out to put japanese guys down. If that is what they need to get some, more power to them, but don’t sidestep reality and put down White guys in the process.

    But just think that if those guys didn’t do all that extra grooming and paying……….

    Loving is another issue - when Thai girls want a real man, and some real loving, they come to see nice, big, handsome boys like Daddy.

    Guys like me don’t have to groom ourselves like a little pimp wannabe wuss, only to then pay premium just to get some.

    Sandflea, I know it’s probably too small, but do try to GET A GRIP on it anyway.
    View all comments by Daddy

62. 62 Jase Aug 29th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

    I have to say Daddy, never paying for a woman is not something to boast about - if you’ve taken a few minutes to talk with the girls about their circumstances, you’d see why it is important to at least give some money to them. I shower twice a day and have played representative sport for over 5 years and have many girls offer themselves to me for free, but I always give them some money.

    The Japanese are definitely changing, last week in Cowboy a big group of Japanese came in with flashlights and preceded to chase the girls around the bar trying to shine the lights on the clothes see-through clothing to much merriment. I’ve never seen anything like that. In the past, the Japanese that have braved the journey into Cowboy and into the gauntlet usually sit back in their seats and stare at the girls and quite silent.

    Don’t worry about the Japanese only clubs - I went to one in Soi Thaniya (I have some good friends that are Japanese and I had a TGF who had lived in Japan for a few years and had many Japanese contacts), and it was pretty ordinary. It is far more fun to get drunk with the farangs and Japanese in Soi Cowboy IMO. As to your question, Sandman, about where to find Japanese girls, there are a few around Soi Thaniya, but the club I was in was mostly middleaged businessmen and a couple of Yakuza types (at least that was what I was told they were)
    View all comments by Jase

63. 63 Daddy Aug 29th, 2007 at 11:04 pm

    “last week in Cowboy a big group of Japanese came in with flashlights and preceded to chase the girls around the bar trying to shine the lights on the clothes see-through clothing to much merriment.”

    LOL - which is why I wrote that they are like little kids, and in more ways than one

    anyway - I wrote that I don’t pay for sex - I never wrote that I am not charitable - I do ok in life, so I give to a few charities, as well as to individuals - girls who ball for money aren’t the only people in need of money to help them survive
    View all comments by Daddy

64. 64 BigBabyKenny Aug 30th, 2007 at 2:15 am

    This is from another post on the Big Mango Blog.

    http://www.tfs2m.com/?p=382

    “A lot of these Japanese guys are into some funky shit. If you visit Thermae take a close look at the Japanese guys walking around and you will invariably see full backpacks or curiously large obviously full fanny packs. These frequently contain what a friend and I refer to as the Arsenal—a collection of sex toys, costumes and other paraphernalia that get hauled out during banging sessions. Befriend some of the Thermae TG regulars and ask them about banging Japanese guys if you want some good amusement.”

    I guess we can add flashlights to THE ARSENAL Japanese guys are hauling around in the those “full backpacks and curiously large obviously full fanny packs.”

    It is inevitable, given the Japanese love affair with all things electronic, that the crappy flashlights you buy on the street in Bangkok will eventually be replaced by more powerful versions with more features specially designed for penetrating and rendering transparent girls clothing.

    I guess the next evolutionary step is some 100,000 candlelight monster adapted from a 747 landing light that has a special filter fitted so that it produces the right color light, given the color of the girls clothing, so that everything covered becomes visible.

    I love the Japanese Guys in Thailand. They are a never ending source of amusement.
    View all comments by BigBabyKenny

65. 65 Daddy Aug 31st, 2007 at 10:52 pm

    “I guess we can add flashlights to THE ARSENAL Japanese guys are hauling around”

    LOL

    Initially we laugh about this, but we should try to realize that it may turn out to be that they are progressing - instead of them spending money and taking their time during their selection process, the flashlights are a more swift and sure way of detecting a pre-op.

    White guys should probably learn from this and use it to help them bag a real girl.
    View all comments by Daddy

66. 66 Bob C. Cock. (the C stands for Cock) Sep 7th, 2007 at 11:22 am

    Banging Thai girls for free is no big deal. I’ve done it and I’ve also paid for it.
    I prefer the transaction.
    The old cliche you pay them to leave comes to mind.

    But Daddy you told us once you don’t pay, so you don’t need to tell us countless times.
    It’s no big deal, and I wonder why you seem to be boasting about it?
    View all comments by Bob C. Cock. (the C stands for Cock)

67. 67 Daddy Sep 7th, 2007 at 12:13 pm

    LOL

    Bob C. Cock. (the C stands for Cock), you have too much “cock” on your mind, boy

    we are trying to talk pussy here, so get with the program or get to a gay site, and I really don’t care if you pay for it or not
    View all comments by Daddy

68. 68 smartyanimal Dec 4th, 2007 at 9:20 am

    So, how is sex with a girl that likes Sinatra different from one that likes hip-hop? What about girls that like brass band music - boom! boom! boom!
    View all comments by smartyanimal

69. 69 Gratefulhead Jan 31st, 2008 at 3:33 am

    I’m returning back to the Philippines soon & then on to Thailand. I have not been to Thailand since 1982. I was stationed in Yokosuka in 1977-1079, & got to understand the Japanese culture first hand. I rarly went out to the bars just outside the base. I traveled to the Universitys & the shopping districts & bar districts of Tokyo, & Yokohama when I went on liberty. I have watched the japanese in the bars in Cebu & Manila alot. The women go for them because they pay bigger pesos for a night with them. Most of the girls I talked to laughed about the Japanese because of their small dicks & the amout of money they shell out to hear them sing. Many said they do not like going with the Jap’s because they are into some strange kinky stuff. The favorite thing one girl told me she liked to do was to get the Jap drinking lots of wine & buying her drinks at the premium price then excusing herself & splitting with a white caucasian dude with a big hard one for the night. The thing about Thai girls is that most of them are either married or have boyfriends using them for income for themselves throuth the girlfriend. I do not like supporting a guy to lazy to work himself & depends on & exploits women for his own income (pimps) They are low lifes in my mind. To me who does not drink alcohol it is fun & meaningful to watch the girls get the cash from the Japs & wait a while drinking fruit nectar & slipping out the back with a fine looking TG who has just filled her posckets with the Jap’s cash, & left him stroking his budda belly wondering where his girl went. Face it guys women liks big cock, even if they say they don’t or it doesn’t matter what size a guy is packing, thry all love the big cocks better. Thai Girls, Filippinas, & Japanese girls are all fasinated with a big cock. Most of the Jap’s understand English. I was with several guys once in the train in Japan. they were on a ship visiting from Pearl Harbor. They were drunk & talking ill of the jap’s. I would tell them they were wrong & defend the Japanese culture & I noticed a cute Japanese girl looking at me with one of those sneeky little grins. I went over to her & started speaking a little bit of Japanese to her, & explained I could not speak to much really, & when the train stopped at her stop she asked me to come with her. I said good by to my drunk buddies told them where to get off at & I took off with the girl. She was alright, kinda kinky, but not all that great between the sheets really. She did buy a few drinks & the hotel room for the night. We were woke up by some guy I saw standing near her on the train & when he saw me with her he started crying. She just giggled & told me where to meet her that night. Kind of a trip really. I did not go back as I felt that the dude crying would be a problem. later I found out another guy on my ship ran into her & he said he saw a dude who would come around & cry when ever he saw her with him. The other dude on my ship had a cock longer than mine & she loved it. I found it cute when we got out of the tub & she laid down on the bed butt side up & asked “You like bottom sex” slapping her ass. I agreed to give her what she wanted & was amazed hown her ass sucked it in. My frien who got with her later said she loved his too. I have lissened to Thai girls tell me they don’t like big cocks, but they do. Not huge fat ones, but bigger than the 3 inch Jap’s I know that for sure! They don’t have a thing for drunk swetty whites, but if you present yourselves respectfuly & clean, be patient you be suprised with the beauties you can net Good Luck Good Hunting
    View all comments by Gratefulhead

70. 70 Traveler Mar 31st, 2008 at 6:13 am

    I am so impressed by all of the know it alls. The fact is, Asian men and specifically Japanese men are no different than their counterparts elsewhere around the globe. I have lived both in Japan and in the States, have spent time with Westerners and Asian hobbyists in Thailand, HK, Philipines, Japan, China, Korea, and on and on. The only difference you see are perceived differences NOT real differences. I see the same 3,000 to 4,000 baht overpaying behavior by both Westerners and Asians alike. The thing they have in common are they are either newbies or not very emotionally strong. They come equally in all colors/races.

    The Japanese are neophytes in love making or relationships? Shit, they are fucking their brains out every day. They have as many girls and venues as Thailand has. It’s just become more practical to do it in Thailand now, since the bubble has burst and also because more Japanese business are investing in Thailand and are sending their people there.

    Most of the comments above are simply uninformed views of caucasians, who somehow believe there’s a difference between races and have a need to put down Asians whenever they get a chance.
    View all comments by Traveler

71. 71 Pants Elk Apr 1st, 2008 at 9:27 am

    Briefly staying on the Cambodian off-topic thing; I’m staying here (there) indefinitely, because it’s cheap, like me. I’ve only had the most correct and polite treatment from immigration. I bought my year-long multiple-entry indefinitely-extendable visa from a travel agent; such a relief after the insulting crap the Thais throw at you. I’ve “done” Phnom Penh, which could get a little tricky if you were stupid or drunk, but the idea of a bodyguard is HILARIOUS. I didn’t get a place in Phnom Penh because there are nicer, more liveable, towns. Although the average Cambodian girl is an adorable and very correct creature (unlike the average Thai, who is an adorable slut), P4P is pretty much everywhere. Going street rates can be as low as five bucks, ten to fifteen normal. Twenty gets you a room and a girl in a hostess club. It’s not Bangkok, and I don’t find the girls as sexy as Thais, but I’m not menstruating cash like I would be in the City of Whores, which is only an hour away if I can afford some premium R&R from time to time.
    View all comments by Pants Elk

72. 72 smitty Apr 1st, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    pe - i sure hope we get reader submissions from time to time about your moving to cambodia. I think it would be entertaining stuff.
    View all comments by smitty

73. 73 BigBabyKenny Apr 1st, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Pants Elk,

    I wrote this a while ago.

    http://www.tfs2m.com/?p=553

    “The primary reason Thailand, specifically Bangkok and Pattaya, are the world’s premier Girl Zones is that the dating/girl market is well organized with a large and correspondingly expensive supporting infrastructure.

    Bangkok has specialized venues for each specialized market segment reducing transaction costs, making it easy and economical for both farangs and TG’s to find each other. In Thailand, you don’t have to burn time and money searching for or approaching TG’s who have no interest in you or who do not share your particular interests. Amenable and compatible TG’s congregate or work at well established well known easily found locations that are safe, clean, and affordable.”

    I think this point is still valid when you compare Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand.

    If you are interested in a plain vanilla girl and plain vanilla banging, the banging in Cambodia and Laos might be cheaper.

    But if your tastes are more specialized, Cambodia and Laos aren’t a viable alternative to the variety available in Bangkok.

    http://www.tfs2m.com/reader-submissions/2008/02/28/yabaa-daba-do-or-yabaa-daba-don%E2%80%99t-y-ways-tri-ways-and-some-help-about-quickly-and-efficiently-finding-nymphomaniacs-bisexuals-and-threeways-by-bigbabykenny/

    It sort of like going out to eat at a restaurant.

    If you live in Iowa and want a steak, it is cheaper and probably just as good as the steak available in Los Angeles, New York, and Chicago.

    If you are tired of eating steak everynight and wants some Sushi, pasta, foi gras, or ramen, it just isn’t available in the boonies.

    BigBabyKenny
    View all comments by BigBabyKenny

74. 74 Pants Elk Apr 1st, 2008 at 10:01 pm

    Gee, thanks, BBK. One of the reasons I’m staying here is precisely the fact that it ain’t the City Of Whores, and the girls ain’t as pretty, therefore I’m not out on the street every night waving my diminishing wad in the breeze and spiraling the ELT hell drain before my time, which is what I’m biding right now, as much as anything. I’ve also “done” Laos and Myanmar, thank you, incredibly without any handholding or authoritative opinion from anybody.

    A few nights back I was in a palmleaf shack down a dirt track way out of town, a jungle road, watching a gecko as long as my forearm crawl down the wall toward my whore’s head. Longtime was out of the question, and the hour-long random trek back to town was memorable for the pack of dogs which followed me in their own cloud of dust, and hearing the thud of the X Club through the trees as the sun came up.

    As to a “piece,” that’ll have to wait until I’m tooled up, my laptop having imploded im sympathy with the rest of my life.
    View all comments by Pants Elk

75. 75 Pants Elk Apr 2nd, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    But I have to say your analogy of a bunch of Japanese treating whoring like a so-phis-tee-cated winetasting is spot on. Back in the day, when I used to partake of such tomfoolery in the drawing-rooms of many of Europe’s bustling capital cities, my fancy friends would often stare meditatively at the pert little Montrachet they were about to rinse their bridgework with and say - “know what, Pants? This winetasting business, as agreeably elegant and civilised as it is, brings to mind nothing so much as hunkering down in the fetid darkness of a Bangkok go-go club and pulling a couple of crack whores off the track.”
    View all comments by Pants Elk

1. 1 The St. Moritz G-Club and Some Help Understanding G-Clubs by BigBabyKenny at The FARANG Speaks 2 Much Pingback on Jan 25th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
2. 2 In Defense of Thai Women—and the Men Who Date Them, Part 2 by BigBabyKenny at The FARANG Speaks 2 Much Pingback on Aug 4th, 2008 at 6:56 pm

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