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karatecatman
Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 5851
Location: Chennai -- INDIA
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 Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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www.indiaprwire.com/businessnews/20080305/28205.htm
Jet Airways to fly to Berlin, Barcelona and Lyon
Jet Airways Wednesday announced expansion of its code share agreement with Brussels Airlines to include Berlin, Lyon and Barcelona as its new destinations.
New Delhi, Delhi, India, 2008-03-05 21:45:05
Jet Airways Wednesday announced expansion of its code share agreement with Brussels Airlines to include Berlin, Lyon and Barcelona as its new destinations.
Jet Airways in its press statement Wednesday said from March 30 its passengers travelling from Delhi, Mumbai and Chennai to Berlin, Lyon and Barcelona will be able to avail of code share travel through check-in and other benefits as well as interline e-ticketing.
According to the Jet Airways CEO, Wolfgang Prock-Schauer its code share agreement with Brussels Airlines will further help the growing ties between India and Europe, especially in the business and tourism sectors.
Wasn't Wolfgang supposed to defect to Kingfisher?
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Airlinertech
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Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 92
Location: Mumbai
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe he saw the light...... no point jumping onto a sinking ship LOL
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If it isn't broke - then dont try to fix it! |
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texdravid
Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 683
Location: GREAT STATE OF TEXAS
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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"With this partnership, Jet Airways and American Airlines will offer their passengers enhanced connectivity and seamless travel from key Indian cities to Baltimore, Boston, Cleveland, Dallas (Fort Worth), Raleigh-Durham and Washington and vice-versa," Jet Airways CEO Wolfgang Prock-Schauer said.
Does Jet really want access to people like myself, TEXDRAVID?  LOL.
Look at this bit of news regarding Jet and Africa.
http://www.theindianstar.com/index.php?uan=3836
I agree with Jet's decision. They never seem to make a bad move, and they they seem to make the right decision ALL the time. Wow, I love Jet!
See, AI fans, look what happens when you let a private company make private decisions based on their interests, not the interest of some fat babus.
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Proud Conservative in exile, soon to reawaken...
Charter member, Indians against Obama |
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avbuff
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1717
Location: FL,USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure 9W has done the right thing. And with seamless connections through AA to various American cities, they have established a strong foothold in the American market. Just waiting to see when they reach the US west coast.
I think no other airline in India has a better marketing strategy than Jet. |
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15a
Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 99
Location: Bangalore
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Front page ad in todays DNA announcing a daily Bom-HKG flight from April 14. From the sound of the ad (Only talks of lie-flat Premiere, no first), it will be on an A332. No schedules given on the ad, but from Amadeus
9W 42 - Bom 01:05 Hkg 9:15 AM
9W 41 - HKG 19:05 Bom 23:15
Also, from the 9W website, from March 26, they are moving to Changi terminal 3. |
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avbuff
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1717
Location: FL,USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Good news for 9W, but it seems it is a terminator flight to HKG, I was thinking maybe this flight may continue to SFO. |
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Amitabh S
Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| 15a wrote: |
Front page ad in todays DNA announcing a daily Bom-HKG flight from April 14. From the sound of the ad (Only talks of lie-flat Premiere, no first), it will be on an A332. No schedules given on the ad, but from Amadeus
9W 42 - Bom 01:05 Hkg 9:15 AM
9W 41 - HKG 19:05 Bom 23:15
Also, from the 9W website, from March 26, they are moving to Changi terminal 3. |
Wow, so 9W gets to use the spanking new T3 at Changi  Any idea how this allocation was made? I was under the impression only SQ was gonna use T3 atleast for the time being. Good show 9W.
The 9W BOM-HKG should also be an interesting sojourn. Cathay watch out!!!
I just hop someone in AI is reading this. NOt that it would make any sense to them but still...! |
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karatecatman
Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 5851
Location: Chennai -- INDIA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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www.business-standard.com/common/news_article.php?leftnm=1&subLeft=1&chklogin=N&autono=316824&tab=r
Jet eyes 2nd European hub
BS Reporter / New Delhi March 14, 2008
Quotes
Jet Airways is looking at a second European hub for its flights to the US. Paris, Munich and Milan have been identified so far.
The carrier is also planning to set up a hub in Shanghai for which discussions are expected to be held with the Chinese authorities next week.
The advantage, of course, is that flights from India going via Shanghai to the West Coast would save two to three hours of flying time compared with flights via Singapore and Hong Kong.
Datta also pointed out that international business would constitute over 50 per cent of its business in the next two to three years. Currently, international business contributes 37 per cent to the business. He also said that it took 12-18 months to break even on international routes, though it was quicker for West Asia.
Sources in the company said Jet had already broken even on various key routes, including Delhi-Singapore, Delhi-Kuala Lumpur, Delhi-London, among others. However, the West Asian and the US routes were still to pick up volumes.
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justbala
Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 318
Location: Bangalore
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 15a wrote: |
Front page ad in todays DNA announcing a daily Bom-HKG flight from April 14. From the sound of the ad (Only talks of lie-flat Premiere, no first), it will be on an A332. No schedules given on the ad, but from Amadeus
9W 42 - Bom 01:05 Hkg 9:15 AM
9W 41 - HKG 19:05 Bom 23:15
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Are they planning to keep the a/c on ground at HKG for 10 hrs?! |
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Nimish
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3593
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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I can only guess this 10 hour layover is to do with the 14+ hours each way flying time on HKG-SFO-HKG. So from the time the flight arrives at HKG from BOM it needs the following time to return:
2 hours HKG layover
14 hours HKG-SFO
2 hours SFO layover
14 hours SFO-HKG
2 hours HKG layover
--------
34 hours - which is basically 1 day + 10 hours!!! So the flight arriving the first day at HKG at 0915, will fly to SFO and return in time for the next evenings 1905 departure back to BOM!
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Nimish
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3593
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| karatecatman wrote: |
Jet Airways is looking at a second European hub for its flights to the US. Paris, Munich and Milan have been identified so far. |
WHY???
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justbala
Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 318
Location: Bangalore
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Does Jet fly DEL-KUL?! I thot they only did MAA-KUL. Am planning to fly to KUL next month, however cannot use 9W as MAA-KUL will require me to get a prior visa  |
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justbala
Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 318
Location: Bangalore
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Nimish wrote: |
I can only guess this 10 hour layover is to do with the 14+ hours each way flying time on HKG-SFO-HKG. So from the time the flight arrives at HKG from BOM it needs the following time to return:
2 hours HKG layover
14 hours HKG-SFO
2 hours SFO layover
14 hours SFO-HKG
2 hours HKG layover
--------
34 hours - which is basically 1 day + 10 hours!!! So the flight arriving the first day at HKG at 0915, will fly to SFO and return in time for the next evenings 1905 departure back to BOM! |
Thats some foresight!! Wish others had smthing similar!! So are they ditching PVG for HKG or would they have flights to the West Coast via both destinations?! |
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Nimish
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3593
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| justbala wrote: |
| So are they ditching PVG for HKG or would they have flights to the West Coast via both destinations?! |
PVG has not given 9W permission to start the flight, and there are indications that the permission might not come too soon (this is from what I've read in the media). Hence 9W is looking at HKG as a (less desirable) alternative to PVG for the BOM-SFO routing.
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scheduler
Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Location: HKG
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:56 am Post subject: |
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It would be a pleasure for us to see 9W's 77W serving HKG-SFO and even LAX if they ever set up a hub in Hong Kong. We might see more direct India services, such as BLR and MAA-HKG, to be operated by the Indian carriers. In this case not letting CX/KA to be the monopolies.
As for the long layover time of the new 9W BOM flights to HKG, I think they"ll launch DEL-HKG daily flight soon to shorten the idling time when 9W receives more A332s in the coming months. I bet that the current schedule has nothing to do with the SFO flights. The new schedule won't be released until the Chinese authority has totally backed down their previous promise of granting 9W for the US extension. Though I have to agree that Nimish's proposed SFO schedule has the best connection time. Then I'd wonder how 9W can connect the DEL flights with SFO via HKG in the future. |
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avbuff
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1717
Location: FL,USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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After nearly 2 months of operations in Doha , 9W had the first ever delay reported here.
The good thing is that this delay was handled very very meticulously. The aircraft was on schedule , and did the BOM - DOH - CCJ legs on time. Some issues with the aircraft forced a delay upon them of nearly 5hrs from CCJ. I have no idea how things at CCJ were, but as soon as the delay was announced , the passengers traveling on DOH - BOM route ( a/c operates BOM-DOH-CCJ-DOH-BOM), were informed about it right away. The flight which was supposed to leave at 2315 hrs yesterday DOH time left today early morning 0400 hrs. All the passengers were thereby called at 0200 hrs at the airport. And things were pretty smooth. Few people had issues with the connections from BOM to various destinations in India, but it was solved without much problems.
I must say even QR aren't this professional, and hats off to the 9W staff in DOH , BOM for handling the situation well. this reminds us that it is not delays which is a problem to an airline , but how an airline handles it. |
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justbala
Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 318
Location: Bangalore
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| 9W handles delays very efficiently, from wht I have experienced. In Nov, last I was travelling from LHR to BOM on 9W and we had a medical emergency on board, which forced us to make an emergency landing at Ankara, Turkey. The flight was delayed by more than 3 hrs due to this detour. When we landed in BOM, 9W staff were on the spot to assist all pax who had missed their connections. I missed my connection to BLR and a 9W staff was there with a boarding pass to BLR on the next available flight. All GOI pax were re-booked on a Spicejet flight and 9W personnel escorted them all the way to the spicejet counters in the domestic terminal. Wish certain other airlines could learn a thing or two from 9W in this regard!! |
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Nimish
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3593
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: |
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From: http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=14625908
| Quote: |
Civil aviation officials from China and India will meet here later Wednesday to resolve issues related to the air agreement between the two countries.
The two-day talks could prove crucial for India's Jet Airways, which plans to develop Shanghai as its Asia-Pacific hub to fly to San Francisco or Los Angeles in the US.
After Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's visit to Beijing in January, Jet expected to get flying rights to China. But even as India cleared China's Great Wall Airlines to fly to Mumbai, New Delhi and Chennai, Beijing hasn't responded to the Jet. |
Hopefully we'll see a resolution to 9W's quandary around setting up a hub in PVG vs. HKG.
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avbuff
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1717
Location: FL,USA
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scheduler
Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Location: HKG
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:08 am Post subject: |
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This gotta be a distress moment for all of the HK spotters!!! Thanks for the news and I doubt any Indian carrier will make use of HKG as their stopover point beyond their US or even Canada service.  |
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avbuff
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1717
Location: FL,USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Schedules are up,
Jet airways to start San Francisco via Shanghai.
From May 5
9W 210
BOM - PVG 1115 1945 6Hrs
PVG - SFO 2145 1815 11hrs 30 mins
9W 209
SFO - PVG 2045 0130 +2 13hrs 45 mins
PVG - BOM 0330 +2 0820 +2 7Hrs 20 mins
Flights to be operated daily by a B777-300ER. |
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Nimish
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3593
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| scheduler wrote: |
| This gotta be a distress moment for all of the HK spotters!!! Thanks for the news and I doubt any Indian carrier will make use of HKG as their stopover point beyond their US or even Canada service. |
I still think there's hope
China has allowed only 14 frequencies via points in China - so if 9W uses up all of those 14, anyone else (say AI) would be likely to go via HKG if they plan a trans-pacific route.
Besides, I hope that 9W's planned BOM-HKG service continues anyway.
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avbuff
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1717
Location: FL,USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Jet Airways Start a host of sectors and destinations.
Shanghai , San Francisco and Abu Dhabi are the immediate new destinations for Jet Airways. Also Sectors like DOH-COK, BOM-MCT have been added.
So the new destinations are:
BOM-PVG-SFO
COK - DOH
BOM - MCT
BOM - AUH
DEL - AUH
Check out the schedules for the gulf destinations.
http://airlinersindia.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=2834 |
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VT-NYC
Member
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| still no BLR-BRU-ORD? |
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Nimish
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3593
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| avbuff wrote: |
Schedules are up,
Jet airways to start San Francisco via Shanghai.
Flights to be operated daily by a B777-300ER. |
SWEET!!!
Congratulations to 9W for finally getting the clearance to start this route - and I hope it does very well for them!
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COUGAR
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Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 986
Location: Pune
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Nimish
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3593
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Wow - the timing is just right for Indian connections - as it leaves well after the first arriving bank at BOM, and it reaches back in BOM at a time that will provide connections to virtually any point in India that 9W operates from BOM!!!
The fares have been uploaded as well and they are much higher than some the deep discount fares on LH/SQ/BA etc. It seems like 9W feels it can do away with all the discounted fares on this sector and I hope (for their sake) that they're right!
(All fares here are return fares in INR without taxes):
| Code: |
Carrier From To Fare Cur Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
9W BOM SFO 50000 INR S2RTAS
9W BOM SFO 55000 INR Q2RTAS
9W BOM SFO 58000 INR L2RTAS
9W BOM SFO 67000 INR N2RTAS
9W BOM SFO 77000 INR U2RTAS
9W BOM SFO 85000 INR T2RTAS
9W BOM SFO 95000 INR M2RTAS
9W BOM SFO 120000 INR Y2RTAS |
Compared to SQ:
| Code: |
Carrier From To Fare Cur Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
SQ BOM SFO 35000 INR NRT1
SQ BOM SFO 42000 INR NRTI
SQ BOM SFO 50000 INR QRTI
SQ BOM SFO 55800 INR WRTI
SQ BOM SFO 62900 INR MRTI
SQ BOM SFO 66200 INR BRTI
SQ BOM SFO 126820 INR Y2R |
Compared to LH:
| Code: |
Carrier From To Fare Cur Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
LH BOM SFO 35000 INR WSPECAAW
LH BOM SFO 59010 INR VNRAAW
LH BOM SFO 71552 INR QNRAAW
LH BOM SFO 86048 INR HNRAAW
LH BOM SFO 108801 INR MRFAA1YW
LH BOM SFO 136175 INR BFFAA1YW
LH BOM SFO 270501 INR YRT02
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Compared to BA:
| Code: |
Carrier From To Fare Cur Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
BA BOM SFO 35000 INR NRCAS
BA BOM SFO 43000 INR SLRCAS
BA BOM SFO 48000 INR LLRCAS
BA BOM SFO 54000 INR TRCAS1
BA BOM SFO 55000 INR MLRCAS
BA BOM SFO 67000 INR KLRCAS
BA BOM SFO 71000 INR TLRCAS
BA BOM SFO 78000 INR HLRCAS
BA BOM SFO 95000 INR BLFFAS
BA BOM SFO 97000 INR ELRCAS
BA BOM SFO 123000 INR YFFAS
BA BOM SFO 162000 INR WFFAS
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Compared to AF:
| Code: |
Carrier From To Fare Cur Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
AF BOM SFO 64790 INR LIPIAUS
AF BOM SFO 71710 INR VIPIAUS
AF BOM SFO 90130 INR TIPIAUS
AF BOM SFO 94990 INR HSXIAUS
AF BOM SFO 131790 INR KEEIA
AF BOM SFO 197990 INR BEEIA
AF BOM SFO 254470 INR YRT1
AF BOM SFO 254470 INR YRT
|
Compared to CO:
| Code: |
Carrier From To Fare Cur Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
CO BOM SFO 55620 INR W1PX18
CO BOM SFO 60620 INR I2PX18
CO BOM SFO 68970 INR U3PX18
CO BOM SFO 71725 INR IH1PX18
CO BOM SFO 80725 INR UH2PX18
CO BOM SFO 85620 INR O4PX18
CO BOM SFO 89725 INR UH3PX18
CO BOM SFO 98725 INR OH4PX18
CO BOM SFO 109725 INR NH5PX18
CO BOM SFO 121420 INR N5PX18
CO BOM SFO 121421 INR HRT18
CO BOM SFO 148795 INR K6PX18
CO BOM SFO 210140 INR H18
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COUGAR
Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 986
Location: Pune
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:15 am Post subject: |
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15k higher at the cheapest end?
Theres no way the accountants in our company are going to approve travel at these fares!!
So until 9W reduces its fares, i thik we stick to LH only!
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avbuff
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1717
Location: FL,USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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@COUGAR
LAX will be connected through BRU from BLR mostly. I'm not sure whether they are planning any trans pacific LAX operations.
@ Nimish,
What are the fares on the PVG-SFO route? Will they be able to compete with UA? |
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Illiana
Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:48 am Post subject: i think they should prephone by 3 hrs |
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| avbuff wrote: |
Schedules are up,
Jet airways to start San Francisco via Shanghai.
From May 5
9W 210
BOM - PVG 1115 1945 6Hrs
PVG - SFO 2145 1815 11hrs 30 mins
9W 209
SFO - PVG 2045 0130 +2 13hrs 45 mins
PVG - BOM 0330 +2 0820 +2 7Hrs 20 mins
Flights to be operated daily by a B777-300ER. |
.
If they prephone by 3 hrs each way , they will make a killing on pvg-sfo-pvg and indian times will be marvellous too... |
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Nimish
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3593
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Illiana - if they prepone departure ex-BOM by 3 hours - it will be too early for connecting traffic from other Indian cities. That would be a recipe for disaster IMO.
Avbuff - 9W has not yet uploaded fares for PVG-SFO return!!! The UA fares are:
| Code: |
PVG Shanghai Pu Dong CN [ZSPD]
SFO [KSFO]
FRI 30 May 2008 / FRI 06 Jun 2008 / RT
Carrier From To Fare Cur Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
UA PVG SFO 33145 INR TKWCN
UA PVG SFO 67210 INR VKWCN
UA PVG SFO 70945 INR QKWCN
UA PVG SFO 71230 INR VKCNO
UA PVG SFO 74210 INR MKCNO
UA PVG SFO 77205 INR HKWCN
UA PVG SFO 78130 INR QKCNO
UA PVG SFO 82150 INR HKCNO
UA PVG SFO 83755 INR MKWCN
UA PVG SFO 88230 INR BKCNO
UA PVG SFO 95355 INR BKWCN
UA PVG SFO 140375 INR Y2R
UA PVG SFO 154050 INR Y2
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9W has uploaded BOM-PVG fares, and they are:
| Code: |
BOM Mumbai Chhatrapati Shivaji IN [VABB]
PVG Shanghai Pu Dong CN [ZSPD]
FRI 30 May 2008 / FRI 06 Jun 2008 / RT
Carrier From To Fare Cur Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
9W BOM PVG 24350 INR V2E3MAS
9W BOM PVG 26850 INR H2E3MAS
9W BOM PVG 27000 INR K2E3MAS
9W BOM PVG 29500 INR S2E3MAS
9W BOM PVG 32850 INR S2RTAS
9W BOM PVG 33000 INR Q2RTAS
9W BOM PVG 36500 INR L2RTAS
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Which is still higher than SQ (though I don't know about both airline's taxes):
| Code: |
Carrier From To Fare Cur Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
SQ BOM PVG 22000 INR NRT1
SQ BOM PVG 27100 INR NRT
SQ BOM PVG 30800 INR QRT
SQ BOM PVG 33700 INR WRT
SQ BOM PVG 42000 INR MRT
SQ BOM PVG 50000 INR BRT
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blrsea
Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I still don't get the PVG route by 9W. Their current operations to US via BRU is concentrated to east coast destinations of north america. Having connections to US west coast from BRU would have made more sense, as the flights to BRU would have been full with people travelling to both coasts of US rather than having flights via PVG being 60-70% full. Going by numbers someone had posted( ConcordeUK?), the flights to BRU from various Indian ports were in 55-75% range. Having connections to SFO/LAX would have filled up all these empty seats. |
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Nimish
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3593
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| blrsea wrote: |
| I still don't get the PVG route by 9W. Their current operations to US via BRU is concentrated to east coast destinations of north america. Having connections to US west coast from BRU would have made more sense, as the flights to BRU would have been full with people travelling to both coasts of US rather than having flights via PVG being 60-70% full. Going by numbers someone had posted( ConcordeUK?), the flights to BRU from various Indian ports were in 55-75% range. Having connections to SFO/LAX would have filled up all these empty seats. |
I had the exact same thoughts as you did. But someone (was it Jaysit?) pointed out that the challenge with doing a scissors hub via BRU to the west coast was that the flight times on BRU-SFO or BRU-LAX & return were too long to comfortably fit into the bank at BRU. Ultimately the scissors hub strategy would probably expect that all connections would be made at least 95% (or more) of the time, otherwise it gets too expensive to have to re-route passengers on other carriers or put them up in hotels and so on.
LH can manage via their FRA hub in part as they have numerous other flights going to/from the west coast - i.e. the UA flights (and even the AI ones to LAX and BOM/BLR/DEL). So if a connection is missed for any reason, they have the option to provide for a plan B. Plus they probably have spare a/c at FRA in case another a/c goes tech. 9W does not have any of these options.
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avbuff
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1717
Location: FL,USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Nimish, what you say maybe an important reason. But more important is the fact, that there is literally no competition on any of the split sectors of this Jet airways flight.
BOM - PVG. Forget the timings, but when one has the option of a direct flight, who would take a CX flight. And one thing is to be noticed, CX has a list of assorted timings ex-BOM to HKG. And besides, is there any competition on BOM-PVG? Please don't tell me AI, which is neither direct nor is it daily. So the question arises, with an excellent daily 9W B77W, who would consider other options?
PVG - SFO. I have very little idea about the working of this sector. But AFAIK, United Airlines is not an airline that is liked by many people. And Jet with its excellent advertising skills , can surely attract a lot of passengers on this sector. And as far as timings go , it is just that SFO - PVG arrives a bit late in China. the departure from SFO, and the timings of PVG - SFO look pretty good.
But then as pointed out, Jet is worried more about the BOM - SFO O&D. So it is an all win case for Jet IMO. |
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Caliguy
Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 1
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| I actually think the timings are very good. The rt SFO-India timings are very good for the reasons stated above. On the rt PVG-SFO timings, I agree that a 1:30am arrival in PVG is not ideal. That said, I actually think 9W made a great call by having evening departures from both SFO and PVG. UA flies the route with early afternoon departures from both sides (as the one stops seem to as well). 9W is banking on the fact that "some" people will pay a premium to be on the only late evening departure. All I know if I was done with my meetings at 5pm, I would want to be flying home that night and not waiting until the next morning. 9W is very smart -its using the fact that it really cares about SFO-India (thus it does not need to have the perfect "mass" appeal timings on the SFO-PVG route) to possibly grab pax willing to pay a premium for a different departure time. Hopefully AA will all FF mile accrual on this flight and/or code share. |
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Illiana
Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| Caliguy wrote: |
| I actually think the timings are very good. The rt SFO-India timings are very good for the reasons stated above. On the rt PVG-SFO timings, I agree that a 1:30am arrival in PVG is not ideal. That said, I actually think 9W made a great call by having evening departures from both SFO and PVG. UA flies the route with early afternoon departures from both sides (as the one stops seem to as well). 9W is banking on the fact that "some" people will pay a premium to be on the only late evening departure. All I know if I was done with my meetings at 5pm, I would want to be flying home that night and not waiting until the next morning. 9W is very smart -its using the fact that it really cares about SFO-India (thus it does not need to have the perfect "mass" appeal timings on the SFO-PVG route) to possibly grab pax willing to pay a premium for a different departure time. Hopefully AA will all FF mile accrual on this flight and/or code share. |
I dont agree to your logic of timings are perfect . Its pain in the back for passengers coming from SFO to INDIA to get down at 1.30 am in PVG ( Lot of kids and adults will be sleepy) spend 2 hrs in the waiting area and reboard at 330 AM . It will be perfect if they make it to PVG by 9.30 pm . ( in this case premium segment between sfo-PVG will be skyrocketing) and start the bombay leg at 11.30 pm so that reaching bombay at 530 am will be awesome .( business travelleres between PVG and BOM ill relish) and finally its perfect connecting time in INdia.
".[/quote]Nimish - if they prepone departure ex-BOM by 3 hours - it will be too early for connecting traffic from other Indian cities. That would be a recipe for disaster IMO. ".[/quote]
When jet is targeting BOM_PVG & SFO, why should they worry about connecting traffic so starting at 8am time is better than 11 am. Anyhow they have few night flights from del,blr,hyd to compensate feeder traffic. Also, why people from Del,MAA,BLR,HYD shoudl come to BOM to PVG or SFO since CX ,dragon,SQ,has excellent 1 stop connections than coming to Mumbai to board jet.
Indians whose final point is not Mumbai will not prefer Jet with those timings. See CX timings, nothing beats them . FROM YVR?LAX?SFO all flights leave around 1pm and arrive in HKG by 7 pm. Then connections leave at 9 pm and reach DEL?MAA?BLR?BOM by Midnight. People dont mind midnight at the end of their journey as that will lead to less traffic congestion,reach their home with less hassle. The onward flights are also awesome from CX. all their flights leave at Midnight and arrive HKG by 10 am..and leave for above 3 west coast city's by 2 pm .
Its best for JET to twaek the timings . Its my 2 cents. |
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Nimish
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3593
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| Illiana wrote: |
| dont agree to your logic of timings are perfect . Its pain in the back for passengers coming from SFO to INDIA to get down at 1.30 am in PVG ( Lot of kids and adults will be sleepy) spend 2 hrs in the waiting area and reboard at 330 AM . It will be perfect if they make it to PVG by 9.30 pm. |
Illiana - after 12 hours on board - you're already very disoriented, and it does not really matter whether you land at 7 pm to 1 am. Dark or light - that's about the only thing that matters beyond a point.
When taking the SQ1/2 or SQ15/16 on the way back from SFO - you can land in HKG at 6 in the morning, or land in ICN at approx 6 in the evening. The time of landing does not matter in either case - both seem the same after 12-14 hours in a 17" wide seat!!!
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avbuff
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1717
Location: FL,USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Illiana wrote: |
I dont agree to your logic of timings are perfect . Its pain in the back for passengers coming from SFO to INDIA to get down at 1.30 am in PVG ( Lot of kids and adults will be sleepy) spend 2 hrs in the waiting area and reboard at 330 AM . It will be perfect if they make it to PVG by 9.30 pm . ( in this case premium segment between sfo-PVG will be skyrocketing) and start the bombay leg at 11.30 pm so that reaching bombay at 530 am will be awesome .( business travelleres between PVG and BOM ill relish) and finally its perfect connecting time in INdia. |
Well I hope you realise that when it is 0130 am in Shanghai, it is a nice fresh morning in San Francisco. So according to your logic, 0130 hrs is not an ungodly time. You do know that the passengers have boarded from SFO assuming all their body clocks to be adjusted to the West coast time.
However they may all be worn out , because 13 hrs in a flight is long , and one would definitely like a break. And either ways kids and adults would be sleepy irrespective of the time. And come on , its not that these passengers are traveling BOM - DXB/KWI for that matter , that they have options to choose timings of their convinient flights. It's a long travel to a city nearly globally opposite. So people are going to get tired irrespective of the timings, people are going to get worn out , no matter how comfortable the flight maybe.
FYI, Jet had a very hard time in finding the right slots together in PVG and SFO, so targeting jet for choosing the wrong time is not correct. Jet has selected the most suitable slots available to them
| Illiana wrote: |
When jet is targeting BOM_PVG & SFO, why should they worry about connecting traffic so starting at 8am time is better than 11 am. Anyhow they have few night flights from del,blr,hyd to compensate feeder traffic. Also, why people from Del,MAA,BLR,HYD shoudl come to BOM to PVG or SFO since CX ,dragon,SQ,has excellent 1 stop connections than coming to Mumbai to board jet.
Indians whose final point is not Mumbai will not prefer Jet with those timings. See CX timings, nothing beats them . FROM YVR?LAX?SFO all flights leave around 1pm and arrive in HKG by 7 pm. Then connections leave at 9 pm and reach DEL?MAA?BLR?BOM by Midnight. People dont mind midnight at the end of their journey as that will lead to less traffic congestion,reach their home with less hassle. The onward flights are also awesome from CX. all their flights leave at Midnight and arrive HKG by 10 am..and leave for above 3 west coast city's by 2 pm .
Its best for JET to twaek the timings . Its my 2 cents. |
CX may put a competition on the SFO sector, but what beats a non stop to PVG? As I mentioned above, it's not that Jet had all the slots available to them. There were a lot of problems in finding slots at PVG. |
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scheduler
Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Location: HKG
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I am afraid that 9W doesn't have much choices of the flights. Most of the "ideal" slots have been allocated to the Mainland Chinese carriers. Not even Cathay could grab a nice morning arrival and night departure from PVG until very recently. I can assure you that PVG slots are like "take it or don't ask for it"! Thus, I think the current SFO-PVG schedule may not be completely desired by 9W management. |
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blrsea
Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Nimish and avbuff, you do make good arguments.
avbuff, while I agree that BOM-PVG route has no competition, I was looking more at increasing load factors on current flights. As per various trip reports and load reports, 9W flights aren't going out with 80+ % load factors. Would the BOM-PVG-SFO serve the same fate too? Other major cities like BLR/MAA/DEL/HYD have one stop connections to SFO/LAX thru NW/KLM/LH/BA/SQ/CX etc. Why would someone fly to BOM and from there to SFO? Would having 4 flights through BRU and 1 through PVG with 60% load factor make more money than 5 flights through BRU with 70% load factors? |
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