Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Group-rape of girl cover up in Holland - an update
NRC Handelsblad ^

Posted on 12/03/2001 10:30:30 AM PST by knighthawk

Look here for original article

After the uncovering of the group-rape, it became evident that the girl was repeatedly raped by the group.
Here are two more articles on that subject. The articles were translated directly.

From the NRC Handelsblad, by Margriet Oosterveen (1 dec)

Sexual assaults covered up more often

AMSTERDAM - The Amsterdam citydistrict Westerpark has not only tried to cover up the repeated group-rape, but also two group-sexual assault cases of other victims in de Spaarndammerbuurt.

Recently it became publicly known how a 13-year old girl was (as it now seems) repeatedly raped by a group consiting mostly of Moroccan boys, about two years ago, and how the district tried to keep these events hidden from the public. Only some "key-persons" from the district were informed with a "carefully directed communication-stream". As it turns out the district choose to completely hide two group-sexual assaults in the same period from the public.

This is stated in the "Eindevaluatierapport zedenzaak Westerpark" (Final evaluationrapport sexual misconduct Westerpark) that the disctrict counsil had ordered to be made. This rapport made apparent that in the same period as the group-rape two more sexual assaults and public violence were comitted, supposedly by two groups of four boys (mostly Moroccan). citydistrictchairman M. Voster (PvdA) confirmed yesterday that there was more going on. "That's right. Just like there are other incidents were the inhabitants of the district have not been informed about. Because these sort of things happen a lot more often".

After the district discovered that the youths involed were others than the ones who comitted the group-rape of the 13 year old (mentally chanllenged) girl, the sexual assaults were "put aside", according to Voster. "Well, they (the perpetrators) were young, early-teenagers." According to Voster it is "policy" not to inform the neigborhood about group-rapes comitted by childeren with mostly a Moroccan backgrounds. "Because it happens a lot recently. That is the reality." The police was not available for comment yesterday.

Abused Girl Tessa Forced Into Psychatric Care

(from 23 nov, www.nu.nl)

ROTTERDAM - The mentally challenged girl Tessa (15), who was (repeatedly) raped by a group of 14 boys, aging 9 to 16 years, in the Amsterdam citydistrict Westerpark in the final months of 1999, has been ordered to be taken into a closed mental institution by the court.

According to the mental institution that holds parenthood of the girl, the William Schrikkersstichting (Schrikkerfoundation) in Diemen, Tessa has been taken into a so called "crisisplace". She was being hold there because of a suicide attempt the girl has comitted on 18 oktober 2001 and the fact that she keeps wounding herself with pieces of glass.

A week ago it became public, thanks to "de Telegraaf", that the citydistrict Westerpark knowingly tried to cover up the group-rape "not to cause public unrest". And while the citydistrict made sure that the "convicted" rapists were being helped by professionals, the girl and her fosterparents were "sort of" neglected.

According to a spokesman from the Schikkersstichting is Tessa still "displaying suicidal tendencies". She has had agressive moods before, but never that serious that she had to be treated in psychatric hospital. "But in the last few months her behaviour has become worse. Tessa has gone thru horrible things; now her behaviour indicates that a volcano is finally about to explode".

The fosterpartent of Tessa, Peggy Termonen the mother), is frusteratedabout the forced placement of Tessa in the mental institution, location Noorderzand van Rijksinrichting (Federal institution) in Heerhugowaard. "It's like a jail there, she isn't allowed to go outside, and I'm not allowed to call her."

Noorderzand is a former woman's prison that is now in use as a "crisisplace" for 30 girls, who "seem to be going down mentally", as it is stated on the website of the foundation. "During her stay she is being observed and she is exposed to a psychologic evaluation to find out what kind of treatment the girl needs."

According to the fosterparent Peggy Termonen that is the problem right now" "They are only observing Tessa, instead of treating her." Termonen also stated that earlier observation has revealed that if Tessa was to be placed in an "othopedic careinstitution", she would progress much better, because they use a "reward orientated treatment" were she will gain from fysically and mentally. "She is beautiful and sweet, but she's being wrecked by all this." There currently is no room in any othopedic instutution for her.

The Schrikkerstichting says Tessa is being treated, but not to help her recover mentally from the group-rape. "To do this, she has to be mentally stable, and that she isn't". Also the Schrikkerstichting admits there "is too little caretaking" for Tessa. Peggy Termonen accused the Schrikkerstichting of total failure in this matter. The Schrikkerstichting denies the accusations, although it admits that there will be an internal investigation about the situation.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: islamicviolence
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-81 next last
The situation in the Netherlands has gotten worse. The lefties are forcing their PC idea of the multicultural society upon us. They do it by covering up all the crime done by the people the lefties try to protect. Seems to me that the rapists have got all sorts of rights and support, while the victims of their crimes and ordinary citizens only rights seem to be raped or mugged! A friend of mine, who is living near the Westerpark, and confirmed me that no girls are seens here after dark on the streets alone. The lefties probebly think that the rape-victims ask to be raped just by walking the streets, otherwise they would order the police to do something about this situation.
1 posted on 12/03/2001 10:30:30 AM PST by knighthawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
The situation in the Netherlands has gotten worse

Don't even mention the Netherlands or I might have to clean my keyboard for puke. When I told a Netherlander, years ago, that I had a handgun he told me I must be mad - what would I want with a GUN? When I told him I had eight, he backed carefully away... geez. And they euthanize their own when they become too bothersome. Grrr.

2 posted on 12/03/2001 10:40:21 AM PST by Cachelot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
What is the punishment for rape under Islamic law? Apply it.
3 posted on 12/03/2001 10:45:00 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
My blood boils as I read this. Netherlands is where they put the hoods in spa 'prisons' and the victims in REAL prisons. This is evil. I want to see the Dutch locals stage a riot over this. And boot the Moroccan scum from their shores or better yet, just kill them.
4 posted on 12/03/2001 10:46:08 AM PST by The Kitten
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
Of course they cover up the fruits of their debased society. How many times have I heard how enlightened that place is? Thousands! Well, guess what, for all the excess they can participate in, they have their problems too. Who would have thunk it? I'd venture to say that they have many more problems than we hear about.
5 posted on 12/03/2001 10:50:33 AM PST by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
I've been to Amsterdam several times. It is full of Arab men lurking and learing around looking for victims.
6 posted on 12/03/2001 10:50:54 AM PST by mxbluto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sheik yerbouty
What is the punishment for rape under Islamic law? Apply it.

This may be the problem. I'm not sure there is much of a penalty for raping non-Muslims, under Islamic law.

7 posted on 12/03/2001 10:51:31 AM PST by lady lawyer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: The Kitten
scum from their shores or better yet, just kill them.

Their hands are somewhat tied. If you think the English gun laws are draconian, you should see the Netherlands stuff. These folks are property.

8 posted on 12/03/2001 10:52:04 AM PST by Cachelot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: lady lawyer
I'm not sure there is much of a penalty for raping non-Muslims, under Islamic law.

Probably not, since rape of non-muslims seems to have been one of the "prophet"'s great hobbies.

9 posted on 12/03/2001 11:00:18 AM PST by Cachelot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
Rise up ye men of Holland!

Defend Dutch womanhood.

Smite the enemy where he lurks.

10 posted on 12/03/2001 11:10:30 AM PST by BenR2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
The lefties probebly think that the rape-victims ask to be raped just by walking the streets, otherwise they would order the police to do something about this situation.

No - the leftists tie our hands as our women are gang raped. Then they do nothing, which further suppresses those the leftists wish to oppress. Thus we whine with impotent rage and do nothing; except, perhaps, dose ourselves with such opiates as computer screens, televisions, and so forth.

I will leave it to you, gentle reader, to decide who the leftists most wish to step upon.

11 posted on 12/03/2001 11:19:50 AM PST by neutrino
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lady lawyer
What is the punishment for rape under Islamic law? Apply it.

This may be the problem. I'm not sure there is much of a penalty for raping non-Muslims, under Islamic law.

Rape of non-muslim women by muslims is not a crime but a duty especially if the non-muslim women are pagans.

12 posted on 12/03/2001 11:22:57 AM PST by Paleo Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
And just where's that femimist superhero - Hildebeast on all this?
13 posted on 12/03/2001 11:26:11 AM PST by camle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
Why can an intelligent person guess the ethnicity of certain crime perpetrators at a much higher rate than would be expected by demographics?
14 posted on 12/03/2001 11:27:43 AM PST by AshleyMontagu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
Here are three stories in Danish.

If anyone knows an on-line translation page, please translate and post.

Thank-you

Aanranden vaker verzwegen

Misbruikt meisje Tessa gedwongen in rijksinrichting

Amsterdams Stadsdeel verzweeg groepsverkrachting voor de pers

15 posted on 12/03/2001 11:28:01 AM PST by SocialMeltdown
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne
Indeed! For eight years my husband and I were the directors of "The Ark" in Amsterdam, a Christian half-way house. I could talk to you for days on the horrible social conditions that lurk beneath the surface in the Netherlands "utopia."
16 posted on 12/03/2001 11:30:20 AM PST by wjeanw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
Here are a couple related stories:

Muslim rape concern

Copenhagen Post, Sept. 11, 2001

Alarmed at last week’s police statistics, which revealed that in 68% of all rapes committed this year the perpetrator was from an ethnic minority, leading Muslim organisations have now formed an alliance to fight the ever-growing problem of young second and third-generation immigrants involved in rape cases against young Danish girls. Promising demonstrations and an information campaign, Babar Baig from Minhaj ul Quran said that Islam totally condemns rape and the violation of women.

“We feel very strongly that as a Muslim youth organisation, we have a responsibility to speak out about this problem,” said Baig, whose organisation, alongside the Union of Muslim Students (FASM) and the Organisation of Pakistani Students and Academics (OPSA) announced demonstrations in Copenhagen, Odense and Århus.

END

The link for this second story has long since expired but I have the text:

Danish Girls Are Not Sluts

By Erling Andersen

(Translated directly from the Original Article in the Danish Newspaper B.T. Online.)

"Under no circumstances will we accept the Islamic view that brandishes Danish women as sluts."

So says Dr Aase Clausen Bjergen from Copenhagen who will be one of the front runners in a large protest march to be held in Odense, Denmark this Sunday, April 29, 2001.

She wants to ensure that the impression that muslims have of Danish women, apparently as whores, which in the eyes of muslims seems to justify and legitimize violence against them is something the Danish women shall not accept without major resistance.

The protest march takes place in Odense because four young muslim immigrants are in custody there on suspicion of having gang-raped a 13-year old girl in that city several weeks ago.

" We count on the participation of several hundred people, both men and women in this protest march. We met each other via the Internet. We are non-political but everybody agrees that the time has arrived for some serious action. " says Aasen Clausen Bjergen. The Baccalaureate from Copenhagen studied Religious History and her work has moved her within the realm of the ever-increasing problems with violent muslim men. She helped muslim women - victims of violence - with living quarters, new names, etc.

" Already there are numerous examples of violent mayhem and murder committed by moslims and people justifyably fear that acts like the throwing of acid in someone's face are becoming "everyday" occurrences as can be seen in some islamic countries but in Denmark this is unacceptable" says Aase Clausen Bjerg.

There will be several ex-leftwing partisans amonst the protesters but emphasis has been placed on the non-political aspect of this march on Sunday.

"Danish females aren't sluts just because they show parts of their bodies, but that's how muslim males view them.

This opinion is far removed and in direct contrast with the perception that the Danes have of their women. I am convinced that we can build a large network to nip the development of this unpleasant and tragic situation in the bud," Aase Clausen Bjerg said

Published on www.bt.dk Friday April 27, 2001, 03:13 am.

Society No Kay (Not Okay!) E-mail Aase Clausen Bjerg

17 posted on 12/03/2001 11:36:54 AM PST by SocialMeltdown
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wjeanw
Thanks for your comments.
18 posted on 12/03/2001 11:47:51 AM PST by DoughtyOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: The Kitten
My blood boils as I read this. Netherlands is where they put the hoods in spa 'prisons' and the victims in REAL prisons. This is evil. I want to see the Dutch locals stage a riot over this. And boot the Moroccan scum from their shores or better yet, just kill them.

Never will happen they are very happy with their superior attitude..enlightened you know..they have made their bed..in 20 years it will be an Islamic country.All the free sex and drugs will be gone burccas will be the rule of the day..they have made their bed

19 posted on 12/03/2001 11:48:19 AM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SocialMeltdown
In Dutch you mean ;o)

For the record, IMHO Holland/The Netherlands has reached the point of no return. The socialists have damaged the country beyond repair, only an armed revolt would turn things around. Since private gun ownership is near impossible.....

Next year it's US Citizenship for me.

JP

20 posted on 12/03/2001 11:55:03 AM PST by EscapedDutch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: AshleyMontagu
guess the ethnicity of certain crime perpetrators at a much higher rate than would be expected by demographics?

Ehhh... evidence? Police investigation? Ever heard of these advanced things, or are they reserved for the more intelligent?

This rapport made apparent that in the same period as the group-rape two more sexual assaults and public violence were comitted, supposedly by two groups of four boys (mostly Moroccan).

And of course, there exists a good deal of statistical material dealing with the distribution of various kinds of crime.

21 posted on 12/03/2001 11:55:31 AM PST by Cachelot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: SocialMeltdown
In Dutch you mean ;o)

For the record, IMHO Holland/The Netherlands has reached the point of no return. The socialists have damaged the country beyond repair, only an armed revolt would turn things around. Since private gun ownership is near impossible.....

Next year it's US Citizenship for me.

JP

22 posted on 12/03/2001 11:56:16 AM PST by EscapedDutch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: AshleyMontagu
guess the ethnicity of certain crime perpetrators at a much higher rate than would be expected by demographics?

Ehhh... evidence? Police investigation? Ever heard of these advanced things, or are they reserved for the more intelligent?

This rapport made apparent that in the same period as the group-rape two more sexual assaults and public violence were comitted, supposedly by two groups of four boys (mostly Moroccan).

And of course, there exists a good deal of statistical material dealing with the distribution of various kinds of crime.

23 posted on 12/03/2001 11:56:45 AM PST by Cachelot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Cachelot
Double post. Seems FR wanted this one doubled. I musta said something significant :).
24 posted on 12/03/2001 12:03:34 PM PST by Cachelot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: sheik yerbouty
What is the punishment for rape under Islamic law?

The punishment for the rape of a Muslim woman under Islamic law is death - to the woman. Sentence is executed, usually, by the woman's relatives.

In order to accuse the assailant, she must secure the testimony of (I think) four men. After which, she will probably be stoned to death anyway.

There are no punishments for the rape of a non Muslim woman, as this is considered perfectly acceptable behavior.

The lines at rape crisis centers in Islamic countries are not long.

25 posted on 12/03/2001 12:42:38 PM PST by ahariail
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ahariail
"A week ago it became public, thanks to "de Telegraaf", that the citydistrict Westerpark knowingly tried to cover up the group-rape "not to cause public unrest". And while the citydistrict made sure that the "convicted" rapists were being helped by professionals, the girl and her fosterparents were "sort of" neglected. "

The rapists were being "helped." Sheesh. There are no words.....

26 posted on 12/03/2001 12:51:02 PM PST by Zorobabel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Zorobabel
The rapists were being "helped." Sheesh. There are no words.....

Two come to mind: "Let's Roll"

27 posted on 12/03/2001 12:55:33 PM PST by ahariail
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: wjeanw
"For eight years my husband and I were the directors of "The Ark" in Amsterdam, a Christian half-way house. I could talk to you for days on the horrible social conditions that lurk beneath the surface in the Netherlands "utopia."

Please do. People need to know this stuff.

28 posted on 12/03/2001 1:05:24 PM PST by Looking4Truth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
because of a suicide attempt the girl has comitted on 18 oktober 2001 and the fact that she keeps wounding herself with pieces of glass

This pains me. I know a young girl who used to be a cutter...it nearly makes me weep when I think long about the young lady--she needed pain to "steady herself," she tells me, "to keep her from doing something worse." She was so caught up in self-despite that she thought she deserved to hurt herself. Pray for these young girls, and remember them.

29 posted on 12/03/2001 1:10:23 PM PST by Pistias
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
I read your profile. Glad to see that not all Europeans are Bolsheviks. I hope you decide to come live in the United States....we need good folks like you.
30 posted on 12/03/2001 1:26:32 PM PST by Godebert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
Didn't Holland change the age of consent to 14? Not that it would justify rape, but I know they want access to younger "women".
31 posted on 12/03/2001 1:29:16 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SocialMeltdown
Well, these stories are in Dutch, not Danish. Dutch people live in the Netherlands (Holland) and Danish people in Denmark. It's a thing that many people outside of Europe often get mixed up. I live in the Netherlands, but I'd rather live in Denemarken, for they just choose a right winged governement instead of the lefties. These three articles you mentioned I translated myself (yes, I'm Dutch) here:

"Aanranden vaker verzwegen" (Sexual assaults covered up more often) and "Misbruikt meisje Tessa gedwongen in rijksinrichting" (Abused Girl Tessa Forced Into Psychatric Care) are translated right here above. The other article "Amsterdams Stadsdeel verzweeg groepsverkrachting voor de pers" I already posted a while ago, here.

32 posted on 12/03/2001 1:35:12 PM PST by knighthawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: lady lawyer
I stand corrected. "Let the punishment fit the crime".
33 posted on 12/03/2001 1:41:18 PM PST by sheik yerbouty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Cachelot
With the first post you mean "Group-rape of girl cover up attempt uncovered in Holland"? It's the first article, this one is the follow up to inform you all of how events are developing.
34 posted on 12/03/2001 1:47:20 PM PST by knighthawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
With the first post you mean

It's a comment on the general situation in the Netherlands, sort of - which that outrage is only a result of.

It's as someone else here commented, the criminals are getting plush "prisons" and the victims are getting the real prison stuff. Example: private ownership of guns is to all intents and purposes banned there, and if you should harm an assailant you will likely go to jail. That is, in fact, not uncommon in Europe, but most of Europe has somewhat less insane laws on gun ownership. Their laws tend to be fairly bizarre, though - such as odd pistol calibers because civilians may not be allowed to own calibers also in use by the military or police.

I have discussed gun laws with a few Netherlanders. They tend to get me upset. They also seem to think that being sheep is the most desirable state in the world..

35 posted on 12/03/2001 1:58:18 PM PST by Cachelot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Cachelot; AshleyMontagu
Well, glad you people asked. In the first article (link on top of page) the Moroccan youths were arrested by the police and "conicted". And recently there was a lefties cover up of crime facts in Antwerpen (a large city in Belgium, the southern neigbors of the Netherlands). There the regional section of "Het Vlaamse Blok" (the Belgium Nationalists Party) confronted the citycounsil with the crime figures of ethnic people that according to the socialist citycousil were not available. The lefties kept on lying even when the Vlaams Blok were able to get the files from the central police computer. The lefties denied that these data enven excisted or was recorded. After a police official admitted the lefties had to confirm the facts. Why were they covered up? Read and shiver:

Although there are much less ethnics against locals in Antwerpen, the ethnics accounted for a total of 43% of the total crimes. Especialy Moroccan youths (what a coincedence) could be largely accounted for this.
In some categories the percentages are even higher:
Amred robbery (with or without violence) 68%
Grand theft auto: 52%
Quickthefts: 94% (!)
Pickpocketing: 47%

36 posted on 12/03/2001 2:04:12 PM PST by knighthawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
very interesting story. It seems quite a phenomenon that we've read about that north african and arab men in europe and australia like to get together in groups and gang rape young white women. It speaks very negatively about the north african and arab immigrants who do this.

Also, I read that in the US the FBI stopped reporting the racial breakdown of rape statistics because the volume of white women raped by black men every year is so high in comparison to the volume of black women raped by white men. They didn't want to report the stat because people with a racial agenda could make hay out of it.

37 posted on 12/03/2001 2:06:36 PM PST by Red Jones
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EscapedDutch
You already got away? I am planning my escape from Holland too. I'm leaving while it's still somewhat a nice counrty to remember.
38 posted on 12/03/2001 2:07:15 PM PST by knighthawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
The situation has gotten worse. Soon they'll be electing a rapist President and then covering up for his crimes.

BTW, for all the Holland bashers who take such comfort in loudly declaring how black and thick the sin is over there, guess which nation has a crime rate and a history of criminal excesses which make Holland's pale by comparison. That's right. America. We're number 1!!!

39 posted on 12/03/2001 2:08:55 PM PST by Melinator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
Although there are much less ethnics against locals in Antwerpen, the ethnics accounted for a total of 43% of the total crimes

Looks like the same sort of distribution we're seeing in a number of countries. And the same sort of unwillingness to talk about it, even though mostly, the data exists for the taking.

40 posted on 12/03/2001 2:10:31 PM PST by Cachelot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: mxbluto
Be very careful when traveling from Schiphol Airport to Amsterdam. A lot of people (tourists mostly) are being robbed by Moroccans. They work in pairs, one grabs your bag just when the train or metro is beginning to leave from the station and the other one ensures that the doors stay open when the thug jumps out of the train. Just about two weeks ago, one jumped out and landed against a large iron pole next to the rails, he was dead instanly! Good riddance!
41 posted on 12/03/2001 2:11:32 PM PST by knighthawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Melinator
BTW, for all the Holland bashers

The Netherlands isn't unique. But the sort of progression in crime you're seeing in Europe can be mapped to a number of things, and two of those things are minority groups and restrictive laws on guns and self-defense. All in all, EU has a rising crime rate and a tightening of "free self defense", if I remember.

I also seem to remember seeing stats that the US crime rate is actually going down. And of course, it can be demonstrated that a high level of gun ownership linked to freedom to use guns for self defense actually reduces crime. One example which is frequently used in the social sciences is teh case of Kennesaw, where crime dropped by between 80-90 % when it became mandatory that each home have a gun.

42 posted on 12/03/2001 2:18:48 PM PST by Cachelot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Melinator
Well, I live in Holland and I don not wish to brag, but I heard from a friend of mine, who nows a police-chief. This police-chief told him the crime rate in Holland was globaly compareble with to US! Hard to believe, but a lot of crime is withheld from the public and fraud is almost legal here. There is only a 15% chance that the police catches a killer after a murder. Amsterdam has become the crime-capital of the EU, taking over from London. There are 4 to 5 times as many muders (per 100.000 citizens) in Amsterdam than in Rome. Every year 1.3 million crimes are reported to the police, 1 million of them are filed without even being looked at! In 40 years time, the crime rate grew 10 times, while in the same period the police only were able to solve 3 times as many crimes than 40 years ago.
43 posted on 12/03/2001 2:24:55 PM PST by knighthawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Cachelot
It sounds to me that what is plaguing the Netherlands (and Denmark) is a group of religious nutcases who think it acceptable to gang-rape young infidels and to prey on non-muslims generally. It's just that the press is too P.C. to point that little fact out. Perhaps the I-Hate-Holland freepers would point it out, but they seem to have a larger axe to grind with the Dutch.

BTW, here's an interesting aarticle that appeared in the Globe & Mail over the weekend:

Keep on the grass.

The Globe and Mail

Despite, or maybe because of, coffee shops where marijuana consumption is both safe and legal, Amsterdam remains a clean, attractive and cultured city. Vancouver sci-fi novelist SPIDER ROBINSON discovers a future that works.

I've just had a glimpse of the future . . . in a city that was old long before Europeans settled in North America. At the 2001 Cannabis Cup in Amsterdam last week, I acquired some sense of what decriminalization of pot might one day mean for us here in Canada. And was reassured.

Signs and portents suggest this may be marijuana's magic millennium. Bill C-344, sponsored by Canadian Alliance MP Keith Martin (a most interesting man, a former corrections officer and emergency room physician) would replace criminal penalties for personal use with civil fines. More than 200 MPs have expressed support, as have the Canadian Association of Police Chiefs, the Canadian Medical Association, the Canadian Council of Churches and, depending on who's doing the polling, anywhere from 47 to 74 percent of the Canadian public. The federal government is currently growing its own stone in a Manitoba mineshaft; a Ministry of Medical Marijuana seems inevitable.

It's in the air. Italy and Spain already handle cannabis possession with fines. This summer, Portugal startled Europe by decriminalizing personal amounts of any drug. A month later, Britain declared its intention to decriminalize pot, and is currently going forward despite some resistance.

Eleven states have already legalized medical marijuana in defiance of the U.S. government. And there's Holland, where as everyone knows, the weed is perfectly legal, smoked openly -- Wrong.

Whatever you've heard, smoking grass in public is not legal or polite in Amsterdam, or anywhere in the Netherlands. If you light a joint on a crowded street (all Amsterdam streets are crowded), you may not do time . . . but passersby will probably glare, may berate you, and the police might haul you before a magistrate for a stern lecture and a stinging fine.

But anywhere in the city, you're within walking distance of one or more of the famous coffee shops, within which you may legally and safely consume as much as you like of the world's very finest marijuana or hashish.

And you are allowed to purchase up to five grams to go, if you're discreet about where you smoke it. Or you can avoid smoking altogether: I saw dozens of edible pot products, including (thoughtfully) throat lozenges.

Twenty-two coffee shops participated in the 14th annual Cannabis Cup, sponsored by High Times magazine (http://www.hightimes.com) and 420Tours (http://www.420tours.com). So did more than a dozen "seed companies," competing to do with cannabis what Bill Gates did with computers, gain control of the basic software: the DNA of the best possible pot. Many firms exhibited pot-related products (grinders, pipes, growing gear), and countless purveyors of non-intoxicating items (hemp products, posters, music) also participated.

So did hundreds of potheads from all around the world. Some came by day to the Pax Party House (Ferdinand Bolstraat 194) to see and hear charismatic counterculture icons of the millennium past -- Paul Krassner, breathtakingly-audacious editor of The Realist in the sixties, and editor of the new book Pot Stories for the Soul; Stephen Gaskin, merry founder of the most successful spiritual community in North American history, the Farm, now in its fourth decade in Tennessee; his wife, Ina May Gaskin, president of the International Midwives Association, who literally wrote the book on home birth, Spiritual Midwifery.

At least as many people came to the huge Melkweg hall (Lijnbaansgracht 234a) each night for the music. Singers, rappers, musicians and DJs from everywhere were headlined by well-known "stoner band" 311 and backstopped by the tireless house group, the Five Points Band. Easily a dozen people came to hear the British Columbia science fiction writer/folksinger the festival had apparently invited on the theory that this was 2001, and he was cheaper than an astronaut.

And, of course, nearly everyone came for the weed. Attendees were given a "passport" and invited to have it stamped in each of the 22 participating coffee shops -- most of which had a house strain entered in competition.

Celebrity judges got 11 different samples, identified only by number -- indica for gentlemen; sativa for ladies -- and spent the week ranking them in five categories (appearance, smell, taste, burn, strength). The Vancouver outfit, Amsterdam Seed Co., came in second for best indica.

There were so many events and exhibits, I managed to visit only a few coffee shops; I particularly enjoyed De Rokerij (Lange Leidsedwarsstraat 41), Barney's Breakfast Bar (Haarlemmerstraat 102), and the dreamy undersea motif of the Greenhouse Centrum (Oudezijds Voorburgwal 191), but for all I know others are even better.

But I hadn't come for the coffee shops . . . or the music, or the notorious Red Light District, or even the ganja. I live in B.C. I came to see Amsterdam.

I wanted to know what a city that tolerates pot and prostitution and considers junkies treatable sick people is like. I had heard conflicting propaganda -- it's paradise/it's seedy -- and wanted to see for myself.

There seems reason to believe Vancouver might adopt something like the Amsterdam model: Both the mayor and the province are considering safe-injection sites, the police have recently begun to feel murdering prostitutes is a crime, and the BC Compassion Club Society (http://www.thecompassionclub.org) provides medical marijuana to the sick with little harassment.

But what happens when a city goes that one step further, and tolerates marijuana clubs? Do the sidewalks fill with smiling tie-dyed zombies with the munchies? Does the quality of tourists you attract change, and if so, for better or worse? Do lenient laws encourage them to think "anything goes," and behave even more obnoxiously than Spring Breakers in the French Quarter of New Orleans?

Do stoners start flooding in from neighbouring countries -- bringing along users or sellers of harder drugs perhaps? Does the city's drug/crime problem get better or worse, net? Beyond that, what happens to its overall look, flavour, sensibility?

Amsterdam first stunned, then awed and finally shamed me. I was born and raised in New York, and have visited every large city in the United States and Canada: We have nothing on this continent that can touch it. Several centuries' head start is no excuse. I have never seen -- rarely even imagined -- a city so consistently beautiful and aesthetically aware, so proud of its public places and supportive of its arts.

The dominant architectural landmarks are vast museums, opera houses and theatres -- all in active, vibrant use. One of our happiest afternoons was spent in the heavily attended Van Gogh Museum (Paulus Potterstraat 7, http://www.vangoghmuseum.nl), gaping at more than 200 of his paintings, plus an extensive collection of other excellent 19th-century art for context.

Another memorable afternoon was an utterly fascinating canal-boat tour of that city of 2,500 houseboats, and a leisurely stroll through the pristine Vondelpaark.

Nor have I ever seen a city so clean and well-maintained, outside Disneyland. Brick buildings that were standing (below sea level!) when Henry Hudson sailed from Amsterdam are, today, in better average condition than most of the buildings in New York. Every streetlight works.

I saw zero potholes, broken windows, spilled garbage, vandalism, graffiti, or abandoned cars.

On the third evening, leaving our charming and comfortable canal-side Quentin Hotel (Leidesekade 89; phone 3120-626-2187; around the corner from the lovely Leideseplein or "Plaza of Lights"), I spotted two grape-sized dog turds on the sidewalk.

"Thank God! A flaw," I cried, pointing, and my American companions grinned. Returning later, we found someone had drawn chalk circles around the offending items, and what I presume was a stern admonition in Dutch.

I had been told that everyone in Amsterdam spoke English. I was pleasantly surprised to learn they enjoy doing so.

What confused me most, though, was what I couldn't find. In a seaport renowned for brothels and bongs, I could not seem to detect one person who scared me. If there are bad neighbourhoods, I missed them. I'm from the Bronx; I have pretty good street sense.I did not spot one jonesing junkie.

Not one pusher or dealer. No muggers, beggars, thugs, dips, crackheads, posturing gangbangers, child hookers, dumpster divers, squeegee kids, winos, abandoned mental patients -- no street people. I take that back: In a week of wandering, I noticed one bag lady, camped inside the archway of the Opera House.

As I followed giggling crowds in and out of public places reeking of THC, I also watched to see what ordinary Amsterdammers thought of their coffee shops -- and of us. Were they appalled by this annual swarm of beaming foreign dopers, ashamed of the thriving soft-drug industry that attracted us? Not that I could see.

Wearing a goofy grin and a large laminated badge identifying me as a Cannabis Cup participant, I never drew so much as a frown. Amsterdam didn't seem to notice us. We drew less attention than a comparable crowd of tourists leaving a wine-tasting festival, because none of us was staggering or acting belligerently. They simply threaded their nimble way through us, by foot, bike, tram or car; if we smiled, they smiled back. And we always smiled . . .

I'll never forget the well-cherished beauty of Amsterdam, the universal civility, kindness and tolerance of its people, or the good sense of its city council.

Back home again, as I drove past the edge of the horrid open sore that is Vancouver's Downtown Eastside, I decided that any way at all in which this city becomes more like Amsterdam will be a long overdue improvement.

44 posted on 12/03/2001 2:35:27 PM PST by Melinator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Cachelot
First post: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/573603/posts

Yes, in Holland it is illigal to defend oneself effectively. But it is legal (after you got a weapon-permit) to own military weapons, but not automatic ones. You can buy AR-15's (XM-15 Bushmasters), H&K Mk-23's (SOCOM USP) and Steyer AUG's over here. 9x19 mm para, .45 APC, .223, and .30 nato/.303 winchester are all allowed in the Netherlands, but .50 BMG is not (except when you are able to get a special permit, for testing armored cars)

Well, after talking to these guys you know why Holland is in military aspect laughable! Our police is armed with Walther P5's, but many officers never use them (you almost have to get written permission from the governement to shoot back in a firefight), they almost got no gun training and don't care for their P5's (dropping them or never cleaning them) so many of the P5's simply don't work.

45 posted on 12/03/2001 2:37:22 PM PST by knighthawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
That's interesting anecdotal evidence. Published statistics tell a different story. If you have a credible source (other than your friend's conversation with a "police chief") I'd be interested in viewing it.
46 posted on 12/03/2001 2:38:43 PM PST by Melinator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk; Lent; patent; rebdov; dennisw; harpseal; Squantos; onyx; Victoria Delsoul
bttt
47 posted on 12/03/2001 2:38:59 PM PST by Travis McGee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk; EscapedDutch
Move to Arizona, you can buy acres of land and do what you want with it.

Shoot rifles or ride motocross all day if that's what you like.

48 posted on 12/03/2001 2:48:14 PM PST by Travis McGee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee
Got me some nice mountain property in New Mexico :o) but thanks for the invite!

JP

49 posted on 12/03/2001 2:58:24 PM PST by EscapedDutch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: knighthawk
Yup, came to go to school, fell in love, long story short ;o)

JP

50 posted on 12/03/2001 2:59:12 PM PST by EscapedDutch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-81 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson