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October 28, 2008 9:00 AM PDT

Windows 7: A better Vista?

LOS ANGELES--Microsoft on Tuesday offered up far more details on Windows 7, successor to the company's oft-maligned Windows Vista.

In particular, Microsoft is focused on improving the time it takes for Windows to start up and shut down. In addition to its own work, Microsoft has been working directly with computer makers to address all of the factors that affect system performance.

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As far as other features, Windows 7 features support for multitouch input and a new taskbar that makes it easier to manage multiple open Windows.

"The focus is on making sure the things you do (today) are easier and that the things you always wanted to do are possible," Corporate Vice President Mike Nash said in an interview Monday. "There's a lot of work we've done to just make things easier and faster.

The early, prebeta version being handed out to developers at the Professional Developer Conference here has all of the programming interfaces that will be in the final version but only some of the planned features.

Several enthusiasts who have been checking out the new code for the past couple of days praised the stability of the release, particularly for an operating system, at this early stage.

With Windows 7, Microsoft has changed the way it approaches building early releases. In the past, Microsoft included features at various stages of development. With Windows 7, features are included in the main Windows build, only after they are fully baked.

Microsoft is clearly looking to leave a far different first impression than it did with Windows Vista, which made major changes under the hood and led to considerable incompatibilities. With Windows 7, Microsoft is not introducing any major changes to the Windows kernel and is keeping much of the other plumbing substantially similar to that of Vista.

The software maker has also tried to reduce some of Vista's other annoyances, such as the frequently criticized User Account Control feature, which some complained led to too many annoying dialog boxes. With Windows 7, users will be able to choose for themselves how often the system warns them of changes being made to their computer.

The next external release of Windows 7, a feature-complete public beta, is slated for early next year.

Nash wouldn't say whether the company plans more than one beta version before its final release. "We'll see how the first one goes," he said.

The company has said it will have the release out within three years of Vista's January 2007 mainstream release, however, CEO Steve Ballmer has said he wants Windows 7 out next year.

During her years at CNET News, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley. These days, most of her attention is focused on Microsoft. E-mail Ina.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) 60 comments (Showing first 20 comments)
by ppgreat October 28, 2008 9:06 AM PDT
Vista SP3.
Reply to this comment
by Kev_Orng October 28, 2008 10:25 AM PDT
I think you mean Windows ME SP4
by slickuser October 28, 2008 1:09 PM PDT
yes, ofcourse!
by DarkHawke October 28, 2008 9:21 AM PDT
Hey, if the Lord Jobs gets to tack cat names on point versions of OS X, ain't you be rankin' on ol' balmy Ballmer! ;)
Reply to this comment
by Kev_Orng October 28, 2008 9:26 AM PDT
I'm impressed that Windows 7 gets sticky notes. Sheesh, Apple didn't get sticky notes till Mac OS 7.5
Take that, Steve Jobs!
Reply to this comment
by compudoc318 October 28, 2008 12:51 PM PDT
you should be impressed that osx gets boot camp with vista to do all the real work that osx cant do....
by marcwickens October 28, 2008 1:38 PM PDT
Only Mac OS didn't get pre-emptive multitasking until version 10 in 2001. Yes, that's right - a program would stop all processing while you held down the mouse. How pathetic, Windows was better than this back in 1994.
I switched to Mac in 2001. I switched back to Windows in 2005 :)
by thurston24 October 28, 2008 9:43 AM PDT
I have a PC. I run XP on it. I love XP. It is the best OS ever built. When support for XP goes away; I will prolly get a mac.
Reply to this comment
by brianwolters October 28, 2008 10:59 AM PDT
people...get off this XP is great bandwagon. Vista is stable, a joy to use and miles better than XP...XP is so outdated.
by slickuser October 28, 2008 1:10 PM PDT
you should probably get mac now. you will hate xp...
by RainCaster October 28, 2008 9:52 AM PDT
I switch daily between XP, Vista and Win7 machines as one of the priveleged few outside Microsoft. XP feels clunky in comparison. It takes so many more clicks to get anything done on my XP machines that it feels awkward and frustrating to me.
Reply to this comment
by ggordonliddy October 28, 2008 3:49 PM PDT
Name one thing you can do faster on Vista than XP. And don't say search, because Winkey+f gets you search on XP (though on any version of Windows you need to get to a command prompt to do a filename-based search that will actually return all relevant files).

There are many things that are faster on XP. And it has less bugs. If you like Vista, you might as well get a Mac because Vista (like OS X) is just designed to wow you with flashy UI (which in reality is nauseating if you are not a Mac or MS fanboi), rather than actually being an invisible engine upon which your real apps run.
by jessiethe3rd October 28, 2008 5:02 PM PDT
This is very true. Getting to the tasking menu - right click on bar - there. Most recently used applications - dynamic versus static. Moving back and forth in touch flow - pleasureable and useful. Sidebar... SWEET - news and information at my finger tips without poking around in XP. This is one of the many things... the interface in Vista is just "better".
by bgnm October 28, 2008 9:54 AM PDT
Last week, MS issued a major security patch for the pre-beta version. This does not seem to portend well
Reply to this comment
by Vegaman_Dan October 28, 2008 11:23 AM PDT
Considering the hard drives with this release were burned weeks previously to when this vulnerabiilty came out, then having the patch come out *before* those same drives are used to install from is pretty darn proactive.

This does seem to portend well, in direct counterpoint to your comment.
by Penguinisto October 28, 2008 11:38 AM PDT
In that case, tell us Dan: Why does an allegedly revolutionary OS still carry bugs in it from eight years ago?

/P
by timber2005 October 28, 2008 11:46 AM PDT
Because it is nearly IDENTICAL to the Vista/Server 2008 kernal, but if you paid attention to the information on that, XP got a 'critical' rating to install that, Vista 'important/recommended' and Win7? recommended.
by rapier1 October 28, 2008 12:24 PM PDT
Penguinisto,

Your growing level of shrillness is astounding to behold. Its like the unfolding of a flower.
by compudoc318 October 28, 2008 12:43 PM PDT
penguinisto....., any post on here about ms, he'll chime in with some garbage....wake up if apple is so great, how come no one uses it??? oh wait after all their advertising, still at what 8-9 percent share.....after 20 some years.....wow! and i always love to point out that apple said in a conference about boot camp " i hate seeing windows on our computers" .....lol. all this talk from apple fan boys saying to fix vista when it works fine, should turn that hate to apple to have them build an os that doesnt need windows in it to get the job done.........
by Vegaman_Dan October 28, 2008 2:49 PM PDT
Penguinisto wrote:

"In that case, tell us Dan: Why does an allegedly revolutionary OS still carry bugs in it from eight years ago? "

I'm not sure, perhaps you should ask Apple that question for the multitude of iTunes bugs, OS X bugs, and more?

Really now, you can do better than that if your'e just here to troll. Come back when you have something useful to say.
by celticbrewer October 28, 2008 10:01 AM PDT
Of course it'll be a better Vista. If it were a worse Vista, we could just call it XP. My family, friends, and myself are 10 times happier with Vista than XP.
Reply to this comment
by spacydog October 28, 2008 10:27 AM PDT
Like many people using Vista have found, most of the negative publicity over Vista has been overly hyped. The OS works fine. For those still sticking with XP, it'll still be your choice until you realize you are generations behind new and better technology.
Reply to this comment
by Kev_Orng October 28, 2008 10:34 AM PDT
That's basically the reason why I won't go backwards to either Vista or XP, it feels old-school compared to OSX. Windows just seems to be still trying to live the "Look what we can do!" philosophy of the 90s rather than enabling the user with a thoughtfully designed UI.

I am, however, willing to give Win7 a chance, because I'm always open to the latest tech, and I'm okay with being coaxed back if I think it's worth it. So far, though, I'm still seeing a lot of transparent windows, and man, I got sick of those in 2003.
by rick47591 October 28, 2008 10:38 AM PDT
Ho hum...another Win-Me. Which is it this time? A 2nd or a 3rd edition? Or better yet...the 7th edition of Windows-Me.


Vista and Windows 7 are about money. Nothing else. XP will be supported till 2014. Why change? Why fix something that isn't broken?
Reply to this comment
by Vegaman_Dan October 28, 2008 11:25 AM PDT
Because you don't drive a Model T anymore. It wasn't broken either. The world moves on- don't get left behind.
by compudoc318 October 28, 2008 12:37 PM PDT
enjoy your beta max movies and 8 tracks caveman
by jessiethe3rd October 28, 2008 5:08 PM PDT
Because it's all about perception - that's how stock price is changed and that my friend is how business is run. If you are running Linux fiddling with your kernal and tinkering with your bin/ and prompts yippy ki yeah. Back on planet earth Apples insistance of "PC versus Mac" lead to fluff which further leads to... "Vista sucks" which of course means better,newer, smarter designed product. I guarantee you a lot of the feature functionality that was in Office 2007 (which does kick butt) will make it's way into Vista (hence there has been a migration/move of intellect around in Microsoft - just poke around and you'll see.)

W7 will be better... thanks for the fluff Apple - now we get o reap the benefits versus the over price - overhyped OSX now with so many finger gestures you'll be lucky to use/understand how they work for ages (thank goodness it's on "silky smooth glass" YIPPY!!!)
by Understarsidream October 28, 2008 5:30 PM PDT
I agree. Our culture puts entirely too much emphasis on the "bigger better faster more" - part of which is why we are having this massive financial crisis. People cannot tell between what they want and what they need. People don't "need" Vista if XP is working fine for them. The same goes for Office, for 95% of people they haven't added any "OMG" features in years.
by wde62 October 28, 2008 10:53 AM PDT
Vista's primary problem has been Apple's amazing advertising. They have successfully convinced the masses that Vista has problems. I've been running Vista at home since it came out. I've had no viruses, no trojans, no problems at all - with 3 teenagers constantly downloading who knows what. I don't even run anti virus software. Under XP, I was cleaning up (mostly ad-ware, but some viruses) weekly - even though I ran Semantic anti virus.
Vista runs fast (turn off AERO), and has yet to slow down like XP always did after a few months. Sticking with XP is like sticking with a rotary phone.
UAC is annoying when you first set things up, but after that it doesn't pop up that often.
Regarding Windows 7, MS took a lot of flack for taking so long to release Vista and vowed to ship a replacement within 3 years... by 2010.
Reply to this comment
by Olu070 October 28, 2008 11:30 AM PDT
Don't blame Apple for Vista's poor adoption. I think the universally bad reviews from most tech sectors had more to do with that. Apple just grabbed the ball and ran with it.
by wolivere October 28, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
But the thing is Vista Adoption has not been bad. Its actually being adopted at a faster rate then the Win98 to XP conversion.

As for the reviews, was it not strange when a lot of those reviewers got p tin a room with VISTA named something different. Then they all suddenly liked it?

As for Ran for it? In 2008 was good for mac they got up to 2.6 million Macs shipped. In comparison for the same Q4 sales HP 11,900,000, Dell 9,666.000, Other 32,180,000 Total PC sales 65,587,000.

Microsoft Q4, 2008 shows 180,000,000 Vista Licenses shipped to date. Up from 80-90 million mark of Q4-2007. So yes Vista is doing pretty good despite, urban legend.
by sanenazok October 28, 2008 12:49 PM PDT
The "masses" don't care about Apple advertising. They want doo-dads and a laptop for $500 at Best Buy. The masses don't know the difference between Vista. My boss basically uses "Office 2008" and Vista to mean the same thing. It's the computer enthusiast world that makes a big deal out of pretty pointless things, like which OS is better. The masses don't notice, understand or don't care.
by ronan001 October 28, 2008 1:37 PM PDT
people tend to forget that the majority of windows users are business users. the real problem is xp is fine. if you ran a business, would you spend thousands on a new version, if the one you have works perfectly for your needs. It doesnt make business sense. Only people like us who love new technology see it as a worth while investment. Talk to anyone who just wants to run office and one or two other apps. There is no financial reason to upgrade.
by jessiethe3rd October 28, 2008 5:13 PM PDT
Reasons to update to Vista Enteprise from XP:

MUI - multi-language support
4 OS Virtualization out of the box (yes run four OS's for the price of one...)
Bitlocker for hard drive encryption
Better management tools for deployment

Those are four good reasons to upgrade not including the productivity gains. Same up-take (Windows 2000 to Windows XP Pro)... business does it especially when your support for hotfixes goes bye bye and all the application vendors finally get on board.
by i_made_this October 28, 2008 5:41 PM PDT
wde62 nice one - agreed. No one stops to consider (1) how many hundreds of millions of dollars that APPL ad series has cost APPL shareholders thru year over year 9/30/07 to 9/30/08 - and the ad's aren't nearly finished! (2) how severely APPL's just-announced new product line has infuriated old fans of Apple (like my 30-yr old daughter who's a 3D animated graphics designer and LOVES Vista - she just pulled the trigger on $2.7 million that'd normally go to APPL once every two years and has had it with their "decision to donate the graphics industries to Windows" - when I asked her why she had had it, she responded "because at least there was some hardware quality control for J&J Q Public, but now John & Jane are completely on their own" (3) how brilliant the Vista security & stability advancements have been - all of this got dismissed in the press by people dissing something MSFT has already acknowledged was wrong & dumb of themselves - UAC.

Yes, there remain problems with Vista this first two years, but nowhere near the problems that remained within the second year of XP's release. They put out XP SP1 eventually etc. This time, they've made the SP''s once every 6 months and the new o/s releases once every 30 months.

To those who argue they're just small businessmen who want something that works and only want an o/s and two or three pieces of software - I don't understand why you just don't buy an Ubuntu workstation to run your co's dozen stations - if that's how you define your firm's tech competitiveness, baby, you got all you need with Ubuntu which comes equipped with Firefox and OpenOffice and is one damn fine system. You really do not belong making serious capital decisions this century about Intel / AMD / Nvidia et al hardware, let alone Microsoft / Apple / Google et al software - you don't need all that fancy stuff. Whatever you do, don't forget the fanciest stuff of all - buying your pre-builds through either of the three OEM's who are supplying you. Those three outfits, Mr. Small Businessman, understand you better than you understand yourself and have been taking you to the cleaners daily for years. Yes, those three. Just saying.
by sparrowhyperion October 28, 2008 10:57 AM PDT
From the screen shots and other info I have seen on Windows 7, it seems that it is basically Windows Vista with some small changes. Kind of like what Windows 98 and Millennium were to Windows 95. I see no reason to upgrade since Vista works perfectly on my system. I think W7 is probably just another attempt to pry more cash out of the poor users by selling what is basically just an update as if it were a whole new OS.
Reply to this comment
by compudoc318 October 28, 2008 12:46 PM PDT
all that on looks???? it could look the same and be drastically different, try and see, dont be like all these idiot vista haters whove never even tried vista
by sparrowhyperion October 28, 2008 11:02 AM PDT
From the screen shots and other info I have seen on Windows 7, it seems that it is basically Windows Vista with some small changes. Kind of like what Windows 98 and Millennium were to Windows 95. I see no reason to upgrade since Vista works perfectly on my system. I think W7 is probably just another attempt to pry more cash out of the poor users by selling what is basically just an update as if it were a whole new OS.
Reply to this comment
by shinelikeitdoes October 28, 2008 11:07 AM PDT
wow. with windows 7 you can *choose* how many annoying popup messages you get! another unnecessary interaction. again. ms completely misses the plot.
Reply to this comment
by Vegaman_Dan October 28, 2008 11:27 AM PDT
You would rather have no choice in the matter at all? I fail to see how giving the end user a choice in how the operating system alerts them is a bad thing.
by mattumanu October 28, 2008 4:01 PM PDT
Listen Dan, Microsoft for all their zeal in protecting their users, set up Vista to do exactly what the malware they are protecting their users from, namely throw popups at you every few minutes. That was a serious mistep, and over all a very BAD thing.
by trd1282 October 28, 2008 4:25 PM PDT
Dan is only partially right, because we all know microsoft will never ship a product with that option OFF by default...
by jessiethe3rd October 28, 2008 5:15 PM PDT
UAC is on Apple as well... it's no different. It may come up a bit less and therefore they will give you control. Funny thing is people were complaining on how Microsoft is so unsecure... they put UAC on and now everyone is complaining about how irritating UAC is... get a clue.
by ferretboy88 October 28, 2008 12:34 PM PDT
Why do the Apple Cult elites feel the need to always comment on every non apple product thread like little babies. Of course windows 7 will be better.
Reply to this comment
by kwhsy82 October 28, 2008 12:45 PM PDT
Windows 7 seems solid ergonomic improvements on Vista, whose kernel and device driver support give it a head start. For those who care: I use Vista, XP and a Mac.
I'm just curious: in say early 2010 when it ships (my guess) -- will everyone be talking about anything from Android version 3 to some $149 netbook with linux to ??
In other words, as MSFT tactically improves the product, are they missing the next thing? (And yes, I know someday Azure will ship too).
It just seems a lot of years/dollars for stuff that seems pretty pragmatic.
Reply to this comment
by bayshmoe October 28, 2008 1:06 PM PDT
What about WinFS?
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by Vegaman_Dan October 28, 2008 2:52 PM PDT
WinFS isn't in this version of Windows. That was announced nearly a year ago and is old news.
by jessiethe3rd October 28, 2008 5:17 PM PDT
Actually I do not believe WinFS was confirmed or uncomfirmed. I think they need it in there. IT's beta 2 on Vista if memory serves me correct.
by Stormspace October 28, 2008 1:13 PM PDT
I'll be happy if they get it to work halfway decent on hardware that was supposed to be Vista capable. Otherwise my Laptop will be getting Ubuntu instead of the next incarnation of Microslow.
Reply to this comment
by rnaoncfixd October 28, 2008 1:29 PM PDT
So no one is excited about MS Paint... possibly one of Microsoft's greatest creations?
Reply to this comment
by kevdrez October 28, 2008 1:31 PM PDT
I only hope that Microsoft gets it right.

To me, Vista feels like XP all dolled up and shiny. What I hope is that Windows 7 is not a revision or an adaptation of Vista, but that it's literally like a whole new operating system. Please, Microsoft, don't rush it... start from the ground up, pour ridiculous amounts of time and money into research and development, and give us an operating system we can count on.
Reply to this comment
by rapier1 October 28, 2008 1:55 PM PDT
There were a lot of changes under the hood from XP to Vista. A whole lot. That it works very much like XP was intentional though. They simply aren't in a position to radically change the way users interact with the operating system without requiring a complete tear down of the existing environment. Apple was in a position to do this with OS X, an advantage of their market position and customer enthusiasm. MS really isn't. The only way they can make a complete and fundamental change to the OS is incrementally and through the use of near transparent virtualization. I expect that to happen in the next few years but its not going to happen with 7. Its going to be an incremental advance as opposed to a revolution. Which is what MS has been saying for some time.
by robbzerr October 28, 2008 2:07 PM PDT
Wow - that's a really great Mac interface. And Sticky Notes -- what a concept?
Reply to this comment
by DrtyDogg October 28, 2008 3:47 PM PDT
http://www.download.com/1770-2001_4-0.html?query=sticky+notes&tag=srch&searchtype=downloads If you want sticky notes for Windows, about 250 choices on the software.
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During her years at CNET News, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley. These days, most of her attention is focused on Microsoft.


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