FDR plans sneak attack before Pearl Harbor

[caster51]

FDR plans sneak attack before Pearl Harbor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1cX_Fr3qyQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uf_3E4pn3U

I think many Japanese konw that.
However ,Why do not other people know?
Flying tiger was voluntary group?

[Ocean Dude]

I think you're confusing FDR with Bush and Pearl Harbor with Iraq.:wary:

[Bucko]

FDR plans sneak attack before Pearl Harbor


Why would this be a surprise? The US, and every army in the world for that matter, has and always have had strategies to invade every country in the world. The cowardice (臆病) Japanese, however, went ahead with their plan.

[Ocean Dude]

Why would this be a surprise? The US, and every army in the world for that matter, has and always have had strategies to invade every country in the world.
Which is why Putin is wise to be wary of the US European missile defense initiative.

[caster51]

Why would this be a surprise? The US, and every army in the world for that matter, has and always have had strategies to invade every country in the world. The cowardice (臆病) Japanese, however, went ahead with their plan.　

iraqi ppl are killed by american more than Hussan's
more than 1000 ppl is dying in a month.....it is worse than even at that time of Sadam's

911 was a strategy as american's own work to invade .....

[SailorJim]

I'm afraid you are misinformed caster51. Since 1979, when Saddam Insane was in power. He killed NO LESS than 1,500,000 of his own people through torture, execution and chemical weapons. Even the most anti-war website counts civilian deaths at 73,210. Check your facts before you speak. You must do some research for yourself and not rely on one source. I have had Japanese people accuse America of being racist because we used the bomb on Japan but not Germany. This is a common problem in Japan.

Also, I would suggest you research what lead up to 9/11 a little more before you make more ignorant accusations. Kobar towers, USS Cole, The embassies in Nairobi and Tanzania, the first Twin Tower bombings.....

[caster51]

Since 1979, when Saddam Insane was in power. He killed NO LESS than 1,500,000 of his own people through torture, execution and chemical weapons.

China did more...................
Because it was only Ameriacan profits

[KirinMan]

This has got to be one of the most ______________ threads that I think I have ever seen on this board.

What's the point here? Anti~Americanism? Anti-war in Iraq, Sadam Hussein and his extermination of his own people? FDR's "sneak" attack plans on Japan?

What?

So what if FDR's administration had plans, let's not forget who attacked first, thus making this all a moot point anyway.

[caster51]

This has got to be one of the most ______________ threads that I think I have ever seen on this board.

What's the point here? Anti~Americanism? Anti-war in Iraq, Sadam Hussein and his extermination of his own people? FDR's "sneak" attack plans on Japan?

What?

So what if FDR's administration had plans, let's not forget who attacked first, thus making this all a moot point anyway.


i saw your true character .:blush::blush:
you can not discuss it ?

[frostyg02uk]

he has a small point sailor jim the civilian death rate since invasion of iraq was 500,000 a few months ago and that doesnt count the first gulf war. Other then that im not too interested in another my dad can drink more then your dad arguement.

[Bucko]

caster51 seems like a bit of a nutcase. I bet he thinks the moon landings were staged too.

In short, I'm sure America had "plans" to attack Japan back before Pearl Harbour, in the same way that the army of every country in the world has "plans" to attack every other country. I bet today Japan has "plans" to attack even Canada. It pure military strategy. Actually executing those plans are something different though, and something that America would never have seriously considered. Just like how Japan would never seriously consider executing their "plans" to invade Canada or Nigeria or Ireland or wherever.

[Sukotto]

Since 1979, when Saddam Insane was in power. He killed NO LESS than 1,500,000 of his own people through torture, execution and chemical weapons.


I'd actually like to know your sources for this.
Nothing personal. It's just that numbers are often thrown up on the internet and of course it is common knowledge that Saddam Hussein was a monster so sometimes these numbers are not questioned.
Did you get them from Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch, probably the two most mainstream human rights organizations?

I'm not worried if your numbers are off by 1,000 (for 1.5 million).
Just that 1.5 million is a big difference from 73,210.



I of doubt that every army or even most have plans to attack every or even any other country. Does East Timor have any plans to invade Australia or Indonesia now or back in 1975?


WW2 was basically a matter of empires bumping up against one another and such a war was bound to happen sooner or later. It's what happens when you try to maintain such dishonorable things as empire.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Caster51, why did you start this thread?
Shouldn't President Roosevelt haven't been worried about what happened in China as from 1937?
There was already a war going on in Asia, long before Pearl Harbour.

[JimmySeal]

Caster51 likes to take potshots at America without usually making any solid argument.

Japan had been doing atrocious things in Asia for decades and there was no end in sight. Germany has never attacked the US, yet we bombed the crap outta them around the same time and nobody seems to be complaining about that.

[Sukotto]

Japan had been doing atrocious things in Asia for decades and there was no end in sight. Germany has never attacked the US, yet we bombed the crap outta them around the same time and nobody seems to be complaining about that.


One could argue that Germany did declare war on the US and vice versa before Germany was bombed.

But there is the matter of the bombing of Dresden which even some US pilots and crews (here is an essay (http://cps-www.bu.edu/~amaral/Personal/zinn.html) written by historian Howard Zinn who was 2nd Lieut. bombardier over Germany) that participated in bombing Germany in general think should not have happened.

[KirinMan]

I bet he thinks the moon landings were staged too.


You mean, you mean.....they werent? I've been believeing a lie all these years, you mean the angle of the shadows are purely an accident?:(

Omygosh.....

Now I get the point, it's a humour thread. Thanks Bucko!

[caster51]

Shouldn't President Roosevelt haven't been worried about what happened in China as from 1937?
There was already a war going on in Asia, long before Pearl Harbour

that was nothing to do with US.
It means Us did a preemptive attack to Japan without proclamation of war.

or Flying tiger was a Just fly in china?

[KirinMan]

that was nothing to do with US.


US meaning Japan or the United States of America?

It means Us did a preemptive attack to Japan without proclamation of war.
or Flying tiger was a Just fly in china

The Tigers were a volunteer group that fought for the freedom of China against Japanese agression. Plain and simple.

Caster please get over it, Japan started the war in the Pacific, the USA ended it, that like it or not is a FACT.

[caster51]

The Tigers were a volunteer group that fought for the freedom of China against Japanese agression. Plain and simple.

Caster please get over it, Japan started the war in the Pacific, the USA ended it, that like it or not is a FACT.

did you watched that.
this doccument is in english
who gaved money to them?

[KirinMan]

did you watched that.

Cripes Caster how old do you think I am? BTW you werent around either so what difference does it make?

American's volunteered to fight both in Britian and China, before the actual declaration of war against Japan and Germany.

What the heck is your point?.....again?

Oh btw the "Official" name was the American Volunteer Group, read this and you might understand somethings better.

The Flying Tigers (http://www.flyingtigersavg.com/)

who gaved money to them?
Who cares? It was to fight against JAPANESE agression, that's all that counted back then.

[caster51]

American's volunteered to fight both in Britian and China, before the actual declaration of war against Japan and Germany.
Volunteered?
I dont think so.
it was pretended, right?
Oh btw the "Official" name was the American Volunteer Group, read this and you might understand somethings better
it was easy to name that US liked

Who cares? It was to fight against JAPANESE agression, that's all that counted back then.

so it was a preemptive attack, right

[Mikawa Ossan]

it was pretended, right?
I think the English that you're looking for is,

"It was a pretense, don't you think?"

[KirinMan]

American's volunteered to fight both in Britian and China, before the actual declaration of war against Japan and Germany.
Volunteered?
I dont think so.
it was pretended, right?

Now you lost it....yeah they volunteered, before the actual declaration of war.

Caster, now if you even attempt to say anything otherwise you have lost 100% of any credibility you had with me and I will be putting you on my ignore list from now on.

That is a fact as well, make your choice.

[Mikawa Ossan]

I haven't been really been following this thread very much, but I think that Caster'S point is that if the U.S. government gave material and moral support to those volunteer efforts, then the U.S.'s official stance of neutrality at the time was what one would call "tatemae" in Japanese, but the "honne" was active hostility towards Japan.

In other words, America's moral high ground is due only to a technicallity.

[KirinMan]

I haven't been really been following this thread very much, but I think that Caster'S point is that if the U.S. government gave material and moral support to those volunteer efforts, then the U.S.'s official stance of neutrality at the time was what one would call "tatemae" in Japanese, but the "honne" was active hostility towards Japan.
In other words, America's moral high ground is due only to a technicallity.
Be that as it may, and I thank you for stepping in here and trying to keep things on an even keel, I still am under the impression that Caster is unwilling to accept the fact that American's under the threat of losing their citizenship, volunteered to fight against the Japanese and Germans prior to the "official" declaration of war against all three Axis countries.

[caster51]

I haven't been really been following this thread very much, but I think that Caster'S point is that if the U.S. government gave material and moral support to those volunteer efforts, then the U.S.'s official stance of neutrality at the time was what one would call "tatemae" in Japanese, but the "honne" was active hostility towards Japan.

In other words, America's moral high ground is due only to a technicallity.

OK thanks...

whether it was voluntary or not is not related with Japan.
indeed , they were organized and suppoted by US government
as for Japan, it was WAR without Declaration of war that US did Preemptive strike

[Mikawa Ossan]

...the fact that American's under the threat of losing their citizenship, volunteered to fight against the Japanese and Germans prior to the "official" declaration of war against all three Axis countries.
indeed , they were organized and suppoted by US governmentIf what Caster says is true (and I don't think it's a stretch, really. Certainly within the realm of possibility), then how real do you think that threat of losing their citizenship really was?

[KirinMan]

whether it was voluntary or not is not related with Japan.
indeed , they were organized and suppoted by US government
as for Japan, it was WAR without Declaration of war that US did Preemptive strike

It was firstly not organized by the US, the AVG group that is, it was organized by Claire Chenault from the request of Madam Chiang Kai -shek.

It is DIRECTLY related towards Japan, why you ask, because Japan was the aggressor in China. If Japan was not, there would have been absolutely no reason for the development and training of a Chinese Air Force at the time.

For you to conveniently forget or overlook this fact makes me believe that you are blind to the facts surrounding Japan's participation in WWII.

Caster as much as I hate to say this, you are the first person that I am putting on my "ignore" list here. From now on I will not be reading nor responding to any of your posts. I wish you well.

[caster51]

because Japan was the aggressor in China.
NOt at all.
in tokyo trial , it was used "advance' for evidence
japan settled in china because of Boxer Rebellion
they welcomed japan
it was like Today's US force in Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion
then Marco Polo Bridge Incident happed...
Japan and KMT fell in the trap of the communist party.

Caster as much as I hate to say this, you are the first person that I am putting on my "ignore" list here. From now on I will not be reading nor responding to any of your posts. I wish you well
:blush::blush: it is my Pleasure.

[KirinMan]

then how real do you think that threat of losing their citizenship really was?
Personally I am not sure, however it took plenty of guts to do what they did. THe AVG force's record in China was outstanding, and they were one of the major reasons that Japan was unable to advance into India.

I believe the government conveniently overlooked their participation. But that doesnt imply either that the US was directly involved in their recruitment, training or anything else like that.

In other words, America's moral high ground is due only to a technicallity.

The US whether or not they were involved in these small but important bits of history during WWII always had the high ground, along with it's allies.

To me Caster seems to forget who started the war in the first place, and comes across as if Japan is guiltless of any and all wrongdoing, and I'm sorry but that to me is just just being stubborn or showing plain ignorance, I dont know which.

[caster51]

then Marco Polo Bridge Incident happed...
Japan and KMT fell in the trap of the communist party.
Japan never started the war in the first place in china
bacause At that time, it had only minimum military power to protect settlement in china.
why did Marco Polo incident happen?
I guess....
我曾经跟日本朋友谈过。他们说，很对不起，日本皇军侵略了中� E 早B我说∶不！没有你们皇军侵略大半个中国，中国人民就不� \ 团结起来对付你们，中国...就夺取不了政权！」【接见日本社会� E }人士佐佐木更三、�K田寿男、细迫兼光等的谈话1964.7.10� E z
Mao said.....
Translation: "I have talked to my Japanese friends. They said, 'We are sorry, the Imperial Japanese army invaded China.' I told them, 'No! If your Imperial army did not occupy half of China, the people of China would not have united against you, and we will not be in power today.'

Nanjing Incident in 1927
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Incident

US army also counterattaked...

[Chidoriashi]

Caster what makes you believe that Japan never started the war? That is totally illogical. Even if it was the Communists and not the Japanese who staged the Marco Polo incendent, it doesn't erase the fact that the Japanese were in Chinese territory and unwanted! The Second Sino-Japanese war is refered to in Chinese as "the War of Resistance Against the Japanese 『抗日戰爭』。
This is straight from Wikipedia in regards to the Second Sino-Japanese war.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
"The war was the result of a decades-long Japanese imperialist policy aiming to dominate China politically and militarily to secure its vast raw material reserves and other resources. "


Japan was the aggressor nation. It is a fact of history. And only revisionists who, in my opinion, just want to "save face" are trying (unsuccessfully) to say otherwise.


In regards to the video I say "so what"? Japan was waging a war of aggression in China. And even if an attack against Japan was planned Japan still struck first! This "preemptive attack" against Japan you keep talking about never happened!

[caster51]

"the War of Resistance Against the Japanese 『抗日戰爭』。

china can call it as they like.
it is not Japanese business.

And only revisionists who, in my opinion, just want to "save face" are trying (unsuccessfully) to say otherwise

it was called " Japanese advance" even in tokyo trial of just after WAR.
revisionist changed it first.

[Chidoriashi]

Ok fine "Japanese advance". it is still a form of aggression.


Yes the Chinese can call it what they like, and the fact that they call it that is a way of showing that Japanese were not welcome there.

I read the whole "Boxer Rebellion" i didn't see anything about Janpanse being welcomed in the article

Ok fine "Japanese advance". it is still a form of aggression.


Yes the Chinese can call it what they like, and the fact that they call it that is a way of showing that Japanese were not welcome there.


I read the whole "Boxer Rebellion" i didn't see anything about Janpanse being welcomed in the article

[caster51]

According to George Lynch, The War of the Civilizations
there are some discription that ...天津落城の際天津市民は、「大日本順民」と書いて� �章旗を掲げて日本軍に感謝の意を表明した。
Tianjin ppl ,they expressed gratitude to Japanese army
japanese military regulations was the severest in the world:cool:


btw it is very intersting to read
http://dspace.nitle.org/bitstream/10090/472/1/au_simon_2007_ba.pdf

[jmasterjermzx]

?? Things in history happend for a reason.
Thats the reason why the world is a better place today

According to George Lynch, The War of the Civilizations
there are some discription that ...天津落城の際天津市民は、「大日本順民」と書いて� �章旗を掲げて日本軍に感謝の意を表明した。
Tianjin ppl ,they expressed gratitude to Japanese army
japanese military regulations was the severest in the world:cool:
btw it is very intersting to read

Umm. Arent the Southern Koreans the severest in the world now?
I heard those ROK Marines dont play around nor take hostages:p

[Chidoriashi]

[QUOTE=caster51;494046]According to George Lynch, The War of the Civilizations
there are some discription that ...天津落城の際天津市民は、「大日本順民」と書いて� �章旗を掲げて日本軍に感謝の意を表明した。
Tianjin ppl ,they expressed gratitude to Japanese army
japanese military regulations was the severest in the world:cool:
btw it is very intersting to read
dspace.nitle.org/bitstream/10090/472/1/au_simon_2007_ba.

First.. I have no idea what you are trying to say by saying "serverest in the world"

I'm sure there were a FEW people that were happy but obviously things didn't work out and Japan became unwanted. Seriously Caster, according to wikipedia 17,530,000 Chinese civilians were killed between 1937-1945 as a result of the war with the Japanese. I don't think it was because the were all partying too hard for rejoice of the Japanese being there.

And what are you trying to say with the link you set? That person's thesis doesn't deny Japanese war crimes or responsibility. Are you trying to say Japanese behavior was excusable because of the circumstances and environment? What point are you trying to make with that article?

And you never answered my rebuttal about Japanese advance/aggression. How is it that the war was not a result of the Japanese pushing their way forcefully through China?

[caster51]

And what are you trying to say with the link you set? That person's thesis doesn't deny Japanese war crimes or responsibility. Are you trying to say Japanese behavior was excusable because of the circumstances and environment? What point are you trying to make with that article?

And you never answered my rebuttal about Japanese advance/aggression. How is it that the war was not a result of the Japanese pushing their way forcefully through China?

Japan never invaded china. it was an incident
if it is called aggression, china also invaded korea, Vietnam....
it is very simple

China should apologize to Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongzhou_Incident

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Glad I am living in a free part of this world where I may think for myself instead off letting a government do the thinking for me.

Coming back to the thread, the American people didn't want to start a war until Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. President Roosevelt could have helped China, but he didn't, he could have helped W.Churchill in Europe but he didn't, and that was because the Americans were not willing to get involved.

And then Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. The Japanese admiral Yamamoto was the archtect of the Pearl Harbour raid.
Japanese spies were all over Asia as from far before World War Two.

But then, there have also been Japanese soldiers fighting side by side with the British and American soldiers in Normany, France against Germany.

Life has many surprises!

[KirinMan]

Japan never invaded china. :smoke::smoke:

If you actually believe it was just an incident, then let me share with you the "real" reasons of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. You may not believe this but it's the real truth.

First off let me tell you that the US never had any intentions to drop the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki it only happened just because of poor navagation, and a faulty bomb bay hatch.

Boths planes were on a test flight over the cities and by mistake the hatches popped open on both planes and the bombs dropped. There was even a world wide recall right after that for all B29 bombers to have their bombbays checked for malfunctions.

Instead of blaming the US for the atomic bombings you should be blaming Boeing for the faulty hatches. And that is the "real" reason for it, kind of hard to believe but, well the US government has been keeping it secret for all these years there isn't any "open" evidence but I have a friend who has a brother who has a friend that works in the Petagon archives and he "swears" there is documentation that proves this. He cant show us the document because that would be selling secrets or something like that. So you are just going to have to take my word for it.

Sorry the bombs were just an accident, no big deal ok. (Yeah right)

[Chidoriashi]

Obeika> Do you think he's actually gonna get it? haha.. Its nice to put things in perspective huh.

[EmperorHirohito]

I read Obeika's last post and its brilliant. I understood it totally. It is satire in one of its best forms!

[caster51]

First off let me tell you that the US never had any intentions to drop the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki it only happened just because of poor navagation, and a faulty bomb bay hatch.

they did twice...:okashii:
at last ,you learnt what war is .

however
the war is such like that..:cool:
that is why you should consider today's war more rather than past
nobody knows it may be dropped in USA:p

[Chidoriashi]

Caster> Oxford English dictionary: invade:1). to enter a country, town, etc. using military force in order to take control of it. 2.) to enter a place in large numbers, especially in a way that causes damage or confusion.

GOOの国語辞典から：侵略：（名）スル
ある国が他国の主権・領土・政治的独立を侵すために武 力を行使すること。
「―者」「他国の領土を―する」

侵入：名）スル
おかし入ること。強圧的にはいること。
「他国に―する」「賊の―を防ぐ」

Key words: Enter, country, military force, take control
Sound familar?

This is from Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukden_Incident
"The Mukden Incident of September 18, 1931, known in Japanese as the Manchurian Incident, occurred in southern Manchuria when a section of railroad, owned by Japan's South Manchuria Railway, near Mukden (today's Shenyang) was blown up by Japanese junior officers.[1]......The aim of Japanese junior officers in Manchuria was to provide a pretext that would justify Japanese military INVASION (wouldn't want you to miss that) and replace the Chinese government in the region with either a Japanese or a puppet one."

Even though the Chinese caused that massacre who was on their land, obviously UNWANTED by the majority, in the first place? Again tell me how Japan did not invade China?

Oh and once again what were you trying to say with that man's thesis? Please don't just post a 63 page thesis for people to read with stating how you want to use it to defend your case.

[caster51]

Again tell me how Japan did not invade China?
事変........警察力では鎮定し得ない程度の擾乱（じょ うらん：「乱れ騒ぐ事」の義）。国際間の宣戦布告なき 戦争」
at that time, in china, the condition was civil War by KMT and CCP.
it means it was not 国際間の宣戦布告なき戦争」there was no Gorvenment that was recognized...
it was as same as 2004 in shanghai, japanese restaurants and embassy were attacked...
that was today's Marco Polo incident ?:cool:

[Chidoriashi]

事変........警察力では鎮定し得ない程度の擾乱（じょ うらん：「乱れ騒ぐ事」の義）。国際間の宣戦布告なき 戦争」
at that time, in china, the condition was civil War by KMT and CCP.
it means it was not 国際間の宣戦布告なき戦争」there was no Gorvenment that was recognized...

Ok so it was a war with no declaration of war. Big deal. How does that make not make it an invasion? I don't see anything about a " declaration of war" being necessary to call something an "invasion". Offically war or not, Japan was invading, being aggressive, going after natural resources etc.. How does this "revelation" counter my point?

oh and in regards to it not being called a war.. an interesting point..

From wikipedia:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
"The word incident (事変, jihen) was used by Japan as neither country declared war on each other. Japan wanted to avoid intervention by other countries such as the United Kingdom and particularly the United States, which had been the biggest steel exporter to Japan.American President Roosevelt would have had to impose an embargo due to the Neutrality Acts had the fighting been named a war.
In Imperial Japanese propaganda however, the invasion of China became a "holy war" (seisen), the first step of the Hakko ichiu (eight corners of the world under one roof). In 1940, prime minister Konoe thus launched the League of Diet Members Believing the Objectives of the Holy War. When both sides formally declared war in December 1941, the name was replaced by Greater East Asia War (大東亜戦争, Dait?a Sens?)."

[caster51]

How does that make not make it an invasion?

it was as same as 2004 in shanghai, japanese restaurants and embassy were attacked...

if the japanese returned to throw the stone...
they never learn?
that was today's Marco Polo incident ?

then the worst incident was happend by chinese
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongzhou_Incident

chinese can not avoid this incident in the history

[Chidoriashi]

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Are you trying to say that calling what Japan did to China in the 1930's and 40's an invasion, is the same as calling the events in Shanghai in 2004 an invasion?

Excuse me, but how are the two even remotley comparable?

[caster51]

Are you trying to say that calling what Japan did to China in the 1930's and 40's an invasion, is the same as calling the events in Shanghai in 2004 an invasion?

off course.
the Japanese army was only in the Japanese settlement

[Chidoriashi]

Caster are you saying "off course"余談する、or "of course" もちろん??
I'm having a hard time trying to follow the points, and counterarguments you are trying to make. (But somehow I think that might be part of your strategy) As far as I can tell you have not sufficently argued anything.
What are you even trying to say with "the Japanese army was only in the Japanese settlement? Are you talking about those lands that Japan INVADED and took over?? "Japan.. invaded.." hmmm.. its hard to get away from that phrase huh? You still have not told me how what Japan did in China cannot be categorized as an invasion.

[caster51]

Are you talking about those lands that Japan INVADED and took over??
nope it was because of Boxer Rebellion
it was permitted to settle....
it is as same as US force in Japan
then
我曾经跟日本朋友谈过。他们说，很对不起，日本皇军侵略了中・ E 早B我说∶不！没有你们皇军侵略大半个中国，中国人民就不・ \ 团结起来对付你们，中国...就夺取不了政权！」【接见日本社会・ E }人士佐佐木更三、黑田寿男、细迫兼光等的谈话1964.7.10・ E z
Mao said.....
Translation: "I have talked to my Japanese friends. They said, 'We are sorry, the Imperial Japanese army invaded China.' I told them, 'No! If your Imperial army did not occupy half of China, the people of China would not have united against you, and we will not be in power today.

I guess Commies might throw the big stone first
then the KMT and Japan were trapped?

[sabro]

I guess people will always try to make excuses for blatant naked agression.

[Chidoriashi]

Ok, so you wanna, SOMEHOW, compare it to the US in Japan now. Ok let's say.. that Japan decided to attack the US bases and started a war (sorry "incident").. so the US just decides to take over Japan (slaughter millions of civilians in the process) and make it the 51st state... that would be ok, by your logic, because that is what Japan did to China.

You are a hard person to understand Caster.

and that quote in Chinese.... "If the IJA ddi not occupy half of China, the people of China would not have united against you" ..
...So if Japan would not have invaded China.. China would not have fought back..
yeah.. EXACTLY!!

[caster51]

Ok, so you wanna, SOMEHOW, compare it to the US in Japan now. Ok let's say.. that Japan decided to attack the US bases and started a war (sorry "incident").. so the US just decides to take over Japan (slaughter millions of civilians in the process) and make it the 51st state... that would be ok, by your logic, because that is what Japan did to China.
Japan never attacks US base with violence in the reality.
Exterm left wing like red army may do in the future:p

and that quote in Chinese.... "If the IJA ddi not occupy half of China, the people of China would not have united against you" ..
...So if Japan would not have invaded China.. China would not have fought back..
yeah.. EXACTLY!!

However it was an incident in muddy water

[sabro]

Invading China was an incident in muddy water?

[caster51]

Invading China was an incident in muddy water?
indeed, it was not an invasion at all:wave:

[sabro]

In what kind of fantasy world do you live in? Is it a translation problem? When one army shows up, univited, into another country... and takes it over by force-- we call that an invasion. Caster, give us a break. It was an invasion that cost millions of Chinese lives.

[caster51]

In what kind of fantasy world do you live in? Is it a translation problem? When one army shows up, univited, into another country... and takes it over by force-- we call that an invasion. Caster, give us a break. It was an invasion that cost millions of Chinese lives.
it was permitted like other foreign militaries in china,
it is as same as today's Iraq

In case of Nanking incident in 1927(another nanking incident)
US also counterattaked agaist china.

[sabro]

Iraq is an invasion.

Other military adventures by foreign powers into China... were also invasions.

[caster51]

Iraq is an invasion.

Other military adventures by foreign powers into China... were also invasions.

tell the american.
Today, invasions is still going on by american.
which is more important?

[sabro]

It is an invasion. That is what you call it. That is what President Bush calls it-- an invasion. Every one calls it an invasion... what else would you call it? The US landing at Normandy- was also an invasion. Besides Europe and North Africa, in the last 100 years, the US invaded Hati, Grenada, The Phillipines, Mexico, Nicaragua, Cuba... even little invasions into Russia and China. Japan also invaded a few countries... like China. it is called an invasion.

As to what is more important... I'm certain a billion people in China will tell you the Japanese invasion is more important... but 20 million Iraqi's will disagree...

[caster51]

That is what President Bush calls it-- an invasion. Every one calls it an invasion...

I wonder why do not quit?
why do not hang Bush?

[Dutch Baka]

I'm closing this thread until further notice.