chaoticsoul

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Page #1 Discusses:

[Q1A] 2v2: Shaman/Warrior

[Q2A] 2v2: Paladin/Warrior

[Q3A] 2v2: Paladin/Warlock

[Q4A] 2v2: Disc Priest/Rogue

[Q1B] Which rogue spec do you feel complements a shadow priest best in 2v2?

[Q2B] How do you and your rogue generally start fights off in 2v2? Do you rush, etc.?

[Q1C] If you had access to any PvE gear, would you use it?

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Q1A: How do we deal with Warrior/Shaman as Shadow Priest/Rogue?

Like other warrior/healer combos, being Undead makes this fight a whole lot easier. A GOOD Shaman/Warrior should do really well against Shadow Priest/Rogue, and could potentially be considered a counter, if put into the hands of extremely good players.

What we do is similar to all other warrior/healer fights: split dps. Devouring Plague helps ease up a lot of the damage the warrior is putting out. Just have to make sure you use it at a good time, when the shaman can’t waste a GCD on dispelling it, or when the shaman is stunned.

As the priest, you should be assisting with dispels on the shaman for your rogue partner (Bloodlust + Earth Shield).

You can also, if you want, attempt to burst down the shaman but I don’t think that’s very viable unless your rogue has Vile Poisons for the dispel resistances. I’m not sure if there’s much else to say, we play it almost exactly like druid/warrior, except the warrior does a lot more damage in this set up, and purges are a bitch to deal with. Something to keep in mind is, you’re PROBABLY not going to be using SW:D for damage, since you’ll be pressured on HP, so I generally use it on Windfury or Poison Cleansing Totems from range. Of course, use it for damage if you’re able to.

A couple of things that we’ve wanted to try on live, but we haven’t (we did these on the TTR/PTR):
*Disclaimer*: I have NO idea if these would work in a real arena environment. We were just messing around with new stuff.
- When your rogue gets off a full duration Kidney Shot and he’s not being attacked, he can vanish sap after the Kidney Shot to get a full dura sap off, as long as he doesn’t attack during the Kidney Shot (this is useful in case the priest can’t dispel the Earth Shield, so a lot of the damage the rogue would be putting out on the shaman would be negated anyway, and CC would be a much better option).
- Try to force the shaman to trinket, then switch to him like Lock/Druid. This is done through the opener mainly; you have to have your rogue ready to kill the Tremor Totem (Cheap Shot warrior -> kill tremor totem with either an auto attack or throwing weapon) and mount -> fear the shaman as his totem goes down. Then double DPS the warrior. If he trinkets the fear, zerg the shaman down. If he doesn’t trinket, then either Blind or Sap after the fear (ideally you want to sap of course). He will have to trinket either one of those, so get ready to switch to the shaman, unless the warrior is very low and killable, then you can always just silence and both keep dpsing the warrior.

Basic things to remember are, try to kite the warrior away from the totems. Fear isn’t exactly a #1 priority unless you’re 100% positive you can get the fear off without a tremor or damage breaking it. Shield every time it’s up, Rank 1 Fade at the beginning if the shaman is chain-purging you. If you get pummeled more than once, you’ll probably lose, so FAKE THEM (watch the warrior’s GCD’s, it’s a lot easier than you think, and it makes it 10 times easier to fake pummels). Mana is rarely important in this fight, meaning use shadowfiend for damage, just make sure it gives SOME mana back.

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Q2A: How do we deal with Paladin/Warrior as Shadow Priest/Rogue?

Split dps! This is a strat that relies on the shadow priest to be able to solo warriors very easily. If the paladin is wearing PvE gear, he is a very viable target and you can probably blow him up. I just don’t like assisting down the paladin because of how easy it is to control him, and you get a mass dispel resist it could mean a loss. As always, be kiting the warrior away from the paladin.

If the warrior gets on your rogue, it’ll make it a lot easier to kill him since you (shadow priest) will be free to chain cast. If your rogue can’t get on the paladin, at least have him try to take the fight near him, so he can Kick a heal when needed and DPS the warrior the rest of the time.

If the warrior gets you, DPS is less of a priority for your rogue, and control is #1. Have him use all of his CD’s and abilities to prevent the paladin from healing as long as possible (including Gouge). He should know when the paladin is about to bubble, so he should call that out and get ready to mass dispel / silence.

This team can be a real pain, but they usually cap out at a certain point so you won’t see them over 2k that often.

It’s very important, if you execute this strat, that the paladin doesn’t get any heals off. He can get maybe one off during his bubble, but he shouldn’t get any more than that. You need to be Kicking, Gouging, Silencing, etc. at the END of casts for this to go smoothly.

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Q3A: How do we deal with Paladin/Warlock as Shadow Priest/Rogue?

This can be considered one of the hardest counters to all 2 DPS teams, and we’ve yet to find an “easy” way to beat them. What we’ve done up to this point, which has always resulted in close games, is to stick on the warlock, not the paladin.

The problem with getting on the paladin in this set up is that it leaves the warlock completely open to fear, silence, and DPS at will. All it takes is a Deathcoil or Spell Lock on the priest when the paladin bubbles to turn the game around in their favor. It’s already hard enough killing a paladin cleanse spamming, kiting around your rogue with a warlock fearing both of you.

So, the only strategy that I think it’s viable against a good team is to stick on the warlock. You can possibly switch targets to the paladin after he bubbles, though.

Self dispels are important in this fight, because if you have to shift out at ALL during this fight, you’re probably going to lose. Keep yourself up with shields and self dispels at all times, but still keep applying pressure on the warlock. Always be near the paladin to fear and silence at the end of his Holy Light casts. It’s also important for your rogue to get at least one drive-by kick on the paladin, in addition to a Blind.

ALL Blessings have to be off on the warlock at all times, especially Sacrifice and Freedom as quick as possible.

That’s the jist of it, it is not an easy fight, and easily the most annoying fight for me to play in. Getting 3+ dispel resists in a row on a Sacrifice or Freedom will probably mean you lose.

Another strategy I’ve heard work is for the shadow priest to play almost exactly like a Disc priest. Support damage through Mind Blast / Flay, maybe Death and constantly be mana burning the paladin while the rogue sticks on the warlock. I have never used this strategy, so I don’t know how well it works, however a different 2250+ Shadow Priest/Rogue told me about this, and I thought it could work, so I’m throwing it out there for anyone who wants to try it.

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Q4A: How do you deal with Discipline Priest/Rogue as Shadow Priest/Rogue?

Since my rogue is AR/Prep we get on the rogue every time against this set up. To unstealth him, we have my rogue sap their priest, then I run in, dispel once (to get in combat) and Mana Burn. Then I keep him in combat, try to fear + Mana Burn more to get him to break the fears with trinket or WotF. I’d almost suggest to just gib the Disc Priest if he uses trinket on a fear, since it opens him to a full stunlock rotation leading into a Silence.

However, if you do get on the rogue, it’s very important that your shadow priest uses his/her trinket at the right time. Never, ever, ever trinket against this team unless you’re 100% positive that it’s going to let you get away out of range and LOS of the rogue (LOS to prevent Shadowstep). Dwarves might have an excuse because they have Stoneform.

This is the #1 team that your rogue being AR/Prep will help a ton against. One or two Mace Stuns in a row (+ Kidney Shot or Vanish Cheap Shot) and you can potentially get away with Crippling dropping off without using your PvP trinket.

If your rogue is Shadowstep, I’m going to be honest, I have no idea what I would do. I know that Shadowstep isn’t nearly as good at locking down other rogues as AR/Prep is due to having no lolRnG mace stuns, so one would think getting on the Disc priest is a better solution and hoping you can kill the Disc Priest before their rogue kills your shadow priest (long shot there though), unless you’re undead and they aren’t. No straight answer here, sorry.

CC is not a big deal here; you can easily DPS through the other priest’s heals. He shouldn’t have GCD’s to be dispelling (especially if you Silence early, which you should, before you start kiting away from him to avoid Mana Burns/dispel spam) if you’re doing enough damage to the rogue. It’s rare that I ever fear or silence the priest, past the initial silence ever since every rogue is Shadowstep.

When you (the priest) do get out of LOS of the rogue, stay there. The other rogue will not be able to get on you with Crippling Poison locked on him, being mace stunned, and a rogue putting out DPS on him while he wastes his energy away. It doesn’t matter how long you stay out of LOS and waste your own GCD’s at this point, it’s just important that you’re preventing being hit and forcing their rogue to start attacking your rogue.

Once you see him switch targets, that’s when you can start popping out and back in to cast instants (redotting basically). Make sure that you’re ready to be Shadowstepped to and attacked again when you start to come out to pump out your damage, meaning top yourself off with bandages, reshield, etc.

In summary, since I know some of this wasn’t very clear, this is what we do:

1. Sap priest, Mana burn to get the rogue out. Don’t let him drink, try to fear and get him to burn his WotF/trinket.
2. When rogue opens, have your rogue open on their rogue and stay on him.
3. Only trinket when you’re 100% sure you can get away, or if you’re dying.
4. LOS Shadowstep until their rogue starts attacking your rogue after seeing he can’t get to you.
5. Top yourself off when you get away from the rogue.

As always, the basic rogue vs. rogue things apply. Make sure your rogue keeps a Rupture up, use Vanish -> Cheap Shot effectively, use evasion as soon as he switches to you, use blind relatively early, etc. etc. It’s up to your rogue to keep their rogue off you. If he lets Crippling fall off for more than 2 seconds, there’s a serious problem. It’s VERY important that he knows that keeping the rogue off you is the #1 priority. I cannot stress how important Crippling Poison and the timing of Vanish Cheap Shots are. I’m going to be blunt: If you’re repeatedly losing to Disc Priest/Rogue as Shadow Priest/Rogue, and you aren’t vastly outgeared/outracialed, then chances are it’s your rogue’s fault, not yours (unless, of course, you use trinket at a bad time. Then there’s nothing your rogue can do about it, unless he saves Kidney Shot for when their rogue Kidney Shots, but then he’ll probably just trinket that and be able to catch up to you again.)

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Q1B: Which rogue spec do you feel complements a shadow priest best in 2v2?

Contrary to what I’ve said in the past, I think most rogues would have more success as Shadowstep than AR/Prep. For a long time, I’ve told people that AR/Prep is best for shadow priest/rogue, but I’m not sure anymore. I think a lot of the rogue’s spec depends on the playstyle of the shadow priest. Besides, both specs have their pros and cons. I’ll list them, so this answer isn’t completely pointless.

AR/Prep Pros/Cons
Pros
- Mace Stuns. Amazing for rogue vs. rogue, and can definitely be the deciding factor of who wins.
- Imp Sprint. Great for druid teams; saves the priest some GCD’s where they don’t have to dispel the roots. Also can be game-breaking for warrior teams, to break Hamstring.
- Adrenaline Rush. Controlled burst, very important to be able to do damage on demand in SP/Rogue.
- Blade Flurry. 2 minute cooldown that adds up to a lot more damage and pushback.

Cons
- Less survivability. No Cheat Death QQ.
- Being kited. It can be really easy to kite an AR Prep rogue in long games against druids.
- Dispel resistance. No poison dispel resistance.

Shadowstep Pros/Cons
Pros
- Dispel resistance. Speaks for itself. Vile poisons is amazing.
- Survivability. Cheat Death!
- Stats. More dodge and crit %.
- Kitable. Not kitable at all, compared to an AR/Prep rogue.
- CP Generation. Generates combo points faster than a non-AR buffed rogue.

Cons
- Loss of Mace Stuns. Probably the #1 reason why I do NOT want my partner to go Shadowstep. We already have enough trouble with rogue teams as it is, and I don’t want any more.
- Loss of Imp Sprint. The shadow priest is already hard-pressed for GCD’s. Factoring in Subtlety (30% dispel resistance on druid spells), roots can be an extremely annoying spell to dispel, and you can find yourself dispelling it 3+ times without it breaking.
- Loss of controlled burst. Losing AR and Blade Flurry means losing a lot of damage when you’re trying to burst someone down.

Also, a lot of people say that AR/Prep lost its effectiveness when AR was taken off prepration. Most SP/Rogue games for us never lasted long enough for the second AR anyway, so we didn’t notice much of a difference when they changed it. The second AR is NOT needed for the spec to be effective.

In short, I don’t think there is a single “best” spec for the rogue to be in Shadow Priest/Rogue. It all depends on your playstyles and how well you play together. So try both of them if you can, and see which works best for you guys.

Note: I didn’t include Mutilate because I don’t consider Mutilate good at ALL for shadow priest/rogue. Try it if you want, but I doubt anyone would have more success with Mutilate compared to the other two specs.

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Q2B: What is your general strategy for starting the arena fight in 2v2? Do you run out and rush, stay back, etc.?

In Nagrand, I always stay behind a pole on our side, and get ready to move to a pole on the other side for when my rogue is ready to sap / engage.

In Blade’s Edge, I run up to my side of the bridge and stay behind one of the thin pillars for LOS. If they run up before we’re ready to start, I jump down to the bottom floor and use the pillars for LOS. And I get ready to go back up in case my rogue gets sapped or gets a sap off and is ready to start.

In Ruins, I stay in the room until we figure out what the other team consists of, and I decide from there. If it’s Mage/Rogue, I don’t want to be in the room, so I move out towards the middle. If it’s double stealth (applies to invis mage + rogue) I run out as well, and stay ~20 yards away from my rogue at all times. If it’s Warrior/Healer I move slightly out, but not that far; I try to get into a position where if he attacks me, I can easily go back into the starting zone to kite him away from his healer. If it’s Warlock/Rogue, I come out but I stay back and let my rogue open up on him and 1v1 for awhile. If it’s Warlock/Druid, I come out but stay out of range until my rogue opens up on him (Same for Hunter/Druid).

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Q1C: If you had access to any PvE gear, would you use it?

Nethervoid Cloak — http://wowhead.com/?item=32590 — I definitely would use this for 2v2/3v3 when my survivability is almost never an issue. Spell damage > all else (over 400 resilience) in the lower brackets. I would not use this in 5v5 when survivability is important.

Skull of Guldan — http://wowhead.com/?item=32483 — I can’t say for sure whether or not I would use this, since I’ve never had experience with spell haste before. I would say yes, though. But probably not over…

Timbal’s Focusing Crystal — http://wowhead.com/?item=34470 — Oh god yes, easily the best shadow priest trinket for PvP (I think it’s one of the best if not the best for PvE too?). There is no reason why you SHOULDN’T try to get this, it has comparable Equip +dmg with the Icon, Hex, and other trinkets along with a 10% chance to shoot out a cool little shadowbolt for over 500 dmg. It makes people stand up, it puts them in combat again, it only has a 15 second cooldown, it procs while YOU are sitting, mounted, stunned, AFK, whatever. I can’t even tell you how amazing this trinket is in a brief summary, it’s that amazing. Use it if you have access to it! (And it’s relatively easy to get anyway).

Post more PvE item questions if you have them; I’ll keep updating this section.

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