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From The Times
April 11, 2008

Athletes who take Tibet stand 'face Olympic cut'

San Francisco torch runner Michael Andrew reveals a Free Tibet patch

Ashling O’Connor in Beijing

Athletes who display Tibetan flags at Olympic venues — including in their own rooms — could be expelled from this summer’s Games in Beijing under anti-propaganda rules.

Jacques Rogge, the president of the International Olympic Committee (IOC), said that competitors were free to express their political views but faced sanctions if they indulged in propaganda.

He accompanied those comments with an admission that the Games were in “crisis” after pro-Tibet protests engulfed the Olympic torch relay.

Mr Rogge’s call for Beijing to abide by its promise to address human rights was given short shrift by Beijing, which bluntly told him to keep politics out of the Games.

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The question of what will constitute propaganda when the Games are on in August and what will be considered opinion under IOC rules is one vexing many in the Olympic movement. The Olympic Charter bans any kind of “demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda” in any Olympic venue or area.

This includes the opening and closing ceremonies, the medal podiums and the Athletes’ Village.

Addressing concerns about free speech, Mr Rogge described the scenario of a Spanish athlete doing a lap of honour in the Olympic stadium with Spain’s national flag and his provincial flag as “perfectly legitimate”.

He said: “We have had many examples of mixed flags where the athlete is proud of that. Is there a will to demonstrate propaganda or is it a desire to demonstrate joy in his victory?”

The IOC did not specify whether a Chinese athlete or a foreign competitor of Tibetan origin flying the Tibetan flag would be regarded as patriotic or propagandist. A spokeswoman said that there had been no discussion internally or with the Chinese authorities about use of the Tibetan national flag. Asked whether athletes would be allowed to hang the flag in their rooms, she said: “The village is an Olympic venue so it falls under the same rules and regulations of any venue which would mean that anything in there would be judged on whether it was a provocative propaganda initiative.”

The fact that the IOC has still not qualified the exact interpretation of “propaganda” means that some athletes remain confused about what they can say during the 16-day event without being sent home or stripped of a medal.

Unfurling Free Tibet banners or wearing Save Darfur T-shirts at Olympic venues are acts likely to be regarded as a breach of the charter, which was introduced after the American athletes Tommie Smith and John Carlos gave the Black Power salute on the podium at the 1968 Games in Mexico City. But there are still many grey areas and concerns among human rights campaigners that athletes’ right to free speech will be curtailed to avoid embarrassing their Chinese hosts.

At the Sydney Games in 2000 Olympic chiefs allowed Cathy Freeman to use the Aboriginal flag to highlight the plight of the Stolen Generation after she won a gold medal in the 400 metres.

British athletes — originally told that they could not comment on “politically sensitive issues” before the edict was hastily retracted by British Olympic chiefs accused of gagging free speech — have asked for further clarification.

The British Athletes’ Commission (BAC) is seeking a tighter definition of propaganda under the charter. They would also like more guidance on the writing of personal blogs during the Games.

“There is a difference between propaganda and opinion and I would expect most of our athletes to know it. Wearing a Free Tibet T-shirt is going to be seen as propaganda. But if athletes are asked a direct question, there should be no problem in them answering it,” said Pete Gardner, the BAC’s chief executive. “We want the IOC to clarify that.”

Most athletes will have no interest in anything other than their sporting performance but some want to be free to make political statements.

A group of French athletes, led by the pole-vaulter Romain Mesnil, has asked the IOC to let them wear a badge calling “For a Better World”. He said: “As athletes, we have to display Olympic values and human values. We don’t want to be mere pawns.”

Mr Rogge will write to the 205 national Olympic committees with guidelines to “prevent further politicisation” of the Games.

“Freedom of expression is absolutely a human right but there are small limitations. We are a movement of 205 nations, many of whom are in conflict, and the Games are not the place to take political or religious stances,” he said.

“If athletes genuinely want to express their opinion, that’s fine. The IOC will examine each case on its own merits and will do it with a lot of common sense.” Claudia Bokel, a German former Olympic fencer, said: “It is very important that athletes can prepare quietly and peacefully for the Games. But they are also concerned about what is going on in Tibet and they want to comply with the Olympic Charter.”

Pro-Tibet demonstrations have overshadowed the Olympic torch’s global journey but the IOC said that the tour would continue as planned.

Mr Rogge said yesterday that the torch relay’s progress would continue as planned. “There is no scenario of either interrupting or bringing [it] back directly to Beijing,” he said. A review of future torch relays will be made in September.

Mr Rogge defended the decision to award the Games to Beijing on a day of testy exchanges with the Chinese over human rights that prompted Gerhard Heiburg, Norway’s IOC member, to say that it was proving “more difficult than we originally thought”.

Mr Rogge said: “It is very easy with hindsight to criticise the decision. It’s easy to say now that this was not a wise and a sound decision. “Without any doubt, the bid of Beijing was the best. It offered something that no other country could: bringing sport and Olympism to one fifth of mankind. That was the reasoning behind awarding the Games to Beijing.”

But, in a nod to criticisms that China had failed to live up to promises made at the time of the bid, Mr Rogge called for the country’s leaders to respect their “moral engagement” to improve human rights. “A number of important commitments have been made. Nothing is ever perfect and there is definitely room for improvement,” he said.

In a terse response, China’s foreign ministry spokeswoman said that the IOC’s own charter called for “irrelevant political factors” to be kept separate from the Games.

Using the Games to make a point

— Tommie Smith and John Carlos, gold and bronze medalists in the 200 metres, gave the Black Power salute during the American National Anthem in Mexico, 1968, to demonstrate against racial discrimination in their home country. They were expelled from the Games

— The silver medallist in the 200 metres, Peter Norman of Australia, who was white, wore an “Olympic Project for Human Rights” badge in support of Smith and Carlos’s protest. When he died, in 2006, Smith and Carlos were his lead pallbearers

— Irish athletes boycotted the 1908 Olympic Games in London in protest against Britain’s refusal to give Ireland its independence. The American team also refused to dip its flag to Edward VII during the opening ceremony

— In 1932 Italian gold medallist Luigi Beccali gave a fascist salute on the podium at the Los Angeles Games

— The Nazis’ appropriation of the 1936 Berlin Games for the purposes of propaganda included the introduction of a grand torch relay to the Games – the very same that is causing trouble today. Boycott efforts by Britain and the US were short-lived, but many Jewish athletes refused to participate

— At the Munich Games of 1972, gunmen from the Palestinian Black September group broke into the compound occupied by Israeli athletes and killed 11 of them

— In 1980 62 countries – the biggest number in history – boycotted the Moscow Games in protest against the intervention of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan

— An Eastern bloc boycott was organised in retaliation at the next games in Los Angeles

— Two-time world judo champion Arash Miresmaeili was eliminated from the 2004 Olympics, officially after failing weight criteria. It seems more likely his exit was because he was drawn against an Israeli. Iran’s National Olympic Committee later said it was “general policy” for Iranian athletes to avoid competing against Israelies

Sources: www.tommiesmith.com ; www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org ; Times archives

out of all the great things that happened in the 68 olympics the only thing most people remember is the photo of Tommie Smith and John Carlos on the medal stand.
Athletes if you want to be remembered go ahead and protest on the medal stand.
Can anyone recall the gold medlist of the high jump in 68?

Joe Briggs, Wichita, Ks.

‘historically, it was part of China; hence the belief by the Chinese that they only reclaimed what was rightfully theirs in the first place.'

Despite all the claims that Tibet has been an integral part of China since the Yuan in the 13th century we know the truth is not as straight forward.

The Yuan where Mongols not Han Chinese, they conquered China, Tibet surrendered, should Mongolia then claim China as part of its territory?

I know the issue is complex but at no time until the Chinese invasion was Tibet ruled directly by Beijing but by the Tibetans themselves in Lhasa.

That the majority of Chinese have been brought up to believe Tibet is there's is not in doubt.

Mike, Nottingham, UK

Having attended the Atlanta and Athens games assisting two different nation's teams, it is clear that the IOC members are embarassed that their conversations with the Chinese are not productive- that they are out of touch with the views of the views of the progressive grassroots elements within their own countries. One only has to observe the opulent life style and trappings of majesty of leading IOC officials to see that they games are a venue for their self-congratulation and self-praise. Activities by athletes which could disturb this fascade and cause discomfort to these royals are delt with firmly. I would expect the past to guide the future; and, that pro-Tibet advocates will be disciplined up to expulsion. Like the Chinese leadership, the IOC leadership is not likely to act outside the organizational norms which have perpetuated the continuing of their grip on power and perogatives.

Ricardo D, San Diego, California/USA

At the 1936 Olympics, the athletes either saluted Hitler or did not salute Hitler. So they all made a political statement, but they did not all make the same political statement.

joe, birmingham, uk

Will athletes with anti-China or pro-freedom opinions be expelled from the Olympics? Will those wining medals be stripped of them if their comments stray from Chinese propaganda? What about spectators and tourists? What about the foreign press? Will they have real, unlimited access? Will live events be shown live, or delayed by seconds to prevent non-glorious incidents from being beamed worldwide? To all those Chinese posters who are saying, Come to China to see for yourself, please be reminded that Tibet is out of bounds to tourists and will be so for months and years to come. There is NO freedom of movement in China, and especially during the Olympics expect lots of surveillance and restrictions. That is the real China. Jacques Rogge must be privately cursing that his predecessor J.A. Samaranch (a man the Chinese Government treats like the best VIP ever) ever gave China the right to host the Olympics. I wonder how much Samaranch got "under the tabel". That's politics!

Cindy Wan, Kowloon, Hong Kong

Rogge is ridiculous if he thinks he can call a simple flag propagada. He should look the word up in a dictionary for a start.

Marco, KrakOw, Poland

The Younghusband mission was indeed shameful Imperialism but comparing the damage done to Tibet by Younghusband and the Chinese 'cultural revolution' is rather like comparing Snowdon to Everest

Mike. Maybe, but a significant difference is that Tibet had never been part of Britain whereas, historically, it was part of China, hence the belief by the Chinese that they only reclaimed what was rightfully theirs in the first place.

Roger Barrington, Longkou City, PRC

So you face being cut from the games if you say your piece. Isn't that called a denial of freedom of speech.

This games is turning into a farce before it's even gotten started.

Are our press going to be allowed to comment on any of the chinese athletes who may do something wrong or not reach the final.

Until the Olympic's get back to basics and away from financial designs this sort of thing will be commonplace - Is it purely coincidence that the next games are being held in the fastest growing economy?

Paul Moxon, Birmingham,

as a Christian i boycott israel and amerika and china.

mary, toronto, on

Lim, Johor Bahru

The pace of the rise of China is indeed alarming but the same CCP made bad mistakes for some 30 years since 1949. Hard work other than singing praises to CCP was not appreciated for a long time.

Just imagine in a 10-km race your coach ordered you to stay behind and only start 5 minutes after other runners started. Sure you would race like hell to play catch up for the next 10 minutes from start. Your pace would be alarming and frightening to everyone then.

As an Asian I have been bullied before...Westerners in ex-colonies, Taiwanese officials, and lately Chinese thugs in uniform and otherwise. You can easily guess which of these bullies I hate most.

If you want status for your country, the very first thing is not to bully your own countrymen and give equal opportunity to all. Let most of poor souls continue to be igorant and uneducated can hardly help improve the nations status in the international arena.

Gene Asia, Singapore,

'How can we British criticise the Chinese, after what we did in Tibet in 1904'

The Younghusband mission was indeed shameful Imperialism but comparing the damage done to Tibet by Younghusband and the Chinese 'cultural revolution' is rather like comparing Snowdon to Everest

Its all very well for the Chinese to constantly bring up lists of the wrong doings of western countries mostly in previous centuries, this does not excuse their occupation of Tibet.

Mike, Nottingham, Nottingham

So China can use the Olympics and the athletes as propaganda to advance its national interests, but the athletes cannot freely express their own political viewpoints. It's a shame they put up with this rank hypocrisy.

NB, sf, usa

The Globalist propaganda machine known as the International Olympic Committee has one and only one true objective. That is: an end to all borders, nations, and peoples in order to achieve a "Global Ine World Government.

As a Christian on principle I am boycotting the "thugs" of the IOC!

Walter S. Gee, Copperhill, Tennessee, USA

Gene Asia, Singapore
Thank you. I am wide awake. Yes I beg to differ.

China is a big country. U will need many trips to cover the country. As tourist u do not have much chance to mix with the local people but people's daily lives are the same as anywhere else in the world. Work and live.

However, my daughter, in a youth event, found Chinese students up to date, knowledgeable and of course very friendly. There was nothing negative as Westerners would like to portray China as having.

China has noticeably changed as can be seen by its PROGRESS & STATUS. e.g Development across the country, People free to travel out of the country as tourist and as business people, Automobiles more than bicycles and others. Most importantly you see Chinese PATRIOTISM.

The pace of the rise of China is indeed alarming & frightening to the West. China had been bullied before. Now it must stand up and stand firm never to be bullied again. Long Live China.
Long Live Asia.
120408

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

Tibet has not asked for independence from China.The people simply want to return to their old religious feudal system where the monks and priests owned all the land and the people were serfs.All countries agree that Tibet is a part of China.These demonstrations are similar to what happened in Ireland,the Basques in Spain,or the natives in any New World countries.

Alex, Edmonton, Canada


To FC Fleming, Gosport, UK

"Jin Liu: the Chinese had no right in the first place to invade a sovereign nation! And to compound the invasion have transported 1000s of Chinese into Tibet to out number the indigenous Tibetans. No amount of "improvement" will make up for loss of sovereignity andlnational identity."

How can we British criticise the Chinese, after what we did in Tibet in 1904. Check your history - The Sir Francis Younghusband "Mission" and the atrocities against the Tibetan people carried under the flag of British Imperialism.



Roger Barrington, Longkou City, PRC

Few if any writing here have any wish to offend the ordinary Chinese people. However that is exactly what is happening. We may consider that they are subjected to massive propaganda and are substantially mislead by their government however to many Chinese, who are immensely proud of their achievements as a nation, they simply cannot understand why western people are so determined to destroy their ability to celebrate their achievement. Life in China, as a developing country, is not the dreadful suppressed experience many of you who have never even been there think. Most people have seen their standard of living increase beyond all expectation and lets not forget that this is still a work in progress. Please lets not deny the people of China their moment of glory on the world stage. They have worked hard and deserve it. Does the west really want to alienate 1/6 of the entire world?

Robert, West Sussex, Engalnd

...In 1980 62 countries – the biggest number in history – boycotted the Moscow Games in protest against the intervention of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan...

It is not particular truthful information. There were no teams from those countries only but the best sportsmen except Americans took part in the Games under white flag including Sebastian Coe to win two gold medals. Los Angeles Games in 1984 lost even more TOP SPORTSMEN than Moscow games to make precise the boycott issue.

Alexey, Moscow,

And what is to stop an athlete smuggling in a tibetan flag inside their tracksuit and whisking it out when they recieve their final gold medal? I would like to see the storm if they deported them after THAT.

Phillip, Melbourne , Australia

If you don't know China,Not talking nonsense please!In China,Everyone is equal!

If you want know China,Come here please!You are welcome!

Evan, Changsha, China

I think all the athletes should boycott the Olympics. Let China know where you stand.

Jennifer, Spring Hill,

Why all this talk of China when talking about the Olympics? Lets stop with all this Chinese nationalism. Ban any use of the Chinese flag at the Olympics along with the Tibetan flag, the Stars and Stripes, or the Union Jack.

Just fly the Greek flag and ban ALL the rest, or let them ALL fly.

Bob Spence, San Leandro, CA

@ James Willett, Lancashire,

In 1908 Ireland was indeed still occupied by England. And in the early 1920’s a Group of English criminals named the Black and Tans were terrorizing the Irish countryside. The Irish Free State was born in 1922. All this can be found in your library or Wikipedia.

What you’re referring to is the North of Ireland. That’s another mess altogether.

Anyhow this article isn’t about Ireland, it’s about how the lame brains in the IOC politicized the games by awarding them to China given its’ policies.

“You’re a bad person but by giving you this treasure we hope you’ll change your ways.”

Now they realize maybe they didn’t think it through, but it’s to late. No ones going to win this and the only ones hurt will be the athletes. This will go down as the worst and under watched Olympics in history.

mikmor, east coast, USA

SPJ, London:
If you wear a Free Tibet shirt or wave a Tibetan flag anywhere in mainland China during the Olympics, I bet you will disappear - rather as quickly as they jailed a Chinese citizen Hu Jia for inciting subversion of state power and the socialist system!

Lim, Johor Bahru
Wake up from you One World dream! CCP in China is so good in propaganda! That is how they came to power in the first place.

Mrs Ess, Madrid, Spain
Well said. I spent my last 4 years in southern and eastern China and totally agree with what you observed.
All they wrote about the goodies CCP give to the Tibetans are no more than means to ask Tibetans to drop the belief in the Dalai Lama and follow the modern lives of the ethic Han immigrants who have been polluting some remote places far from the richer Chinese cities.
One child policy to the Hans itself is a gross violation of human rights. And many of these Hans who live in SiChuan have never been to Tibet or made friends with Tibetans in their own life.

Gene Asia, Singapore,

We can see so many people from different countries are looking into Olympics and China. That's good of freedom. Hope somebody could also listen a voice from a normal Chinese peole even they are derided . From my personal feeling, China is growing fast since 1979 open to the world though no perfect. I was born in 1980 in a small village of China and I remember when I was child my parents' salary is much lower (~100RMB per month, equal 10 Euro per month) and we cherished anything from abroad. Until enter college 1998 I first time saw the "foreign" who said with blue eyes and high nose. It's honor that time when someone showed a picture with "Foreign", this explains the communication between east and west are not enough. But everything go ahead and especially in the past decades, we could see there is more difference, many chinese more focus on English and willing to see open world by travel or any opportunity, and the media is much better open than before.

Luan, Hangzhou, China

The Constitution of the United States makes clear that free expression, unless expressly intended to incite violence, is the right of each citizen. Courts have refused to make nonexistent distinctions between "propaganda" and "free expression". Frankly, there is no difference. If I wanted to wear a T shirt that states "Free Tibet" and that is my opinion,what is the difference between that and any other statement of political opinion, such as "Support Human Rights,"vor "Free Nelson Mandela"? Only fools see a distinction.

robin, San Francisco, California

My premonition tells me Bush will attend the opening ceremonies, and the games will go off without a hitch.

It would hypocritical of Bush to protest China's murderous, illegal occupation when he is responsible for one himself. America is not the world's policeman, despite the frequency of the buzzword. More like "corporate thugs", they enforce big business interests and want complicit control of valuable nations. China is no different. For god sakes they called the Dalai Llama a terrorist, I think Bush found himself a new best buddy in Hu Jintao.

I'm waiting for Bush's visit to China, where he can "Look into Hu's eyes, and see his soul" Disgusting tyrant states.

Tim, Collingdale.,

I know everyone's calling for a boycott, but this is one freak show I don't know that I'll be able to stay away from. 1. Who decides on the definition of "propaganda"? The Chinese govt doesn't seem to be able to discern between that and freedom of expression. 2. Bejing has politicized this shamelessly and pointed its finger at the rest of the world for responding to same. The narcissism is overwhelming. 3. If the IOC had exercised a minimal amount of FOREsight, it wouldn't have to defend its naivete and dillusional belief that China would willingly correct or cease its oppressive abuse and exploitation of the citizens it claims to have helped. Hindsight says this was NOT the best choice. When you find yourself in a hole, Mr Rogge, stop digging. 4. "Irrelevant political issues" would be anything the Chinese govt doesn't want to hear. China put itself in the lime light - don't blame the rest of us for our collective unwillingness to tell the emperor what nice clothes he's wearing.

Tiffany, St. Louis, USA

These athletes train their entire lives for a shot at the Olympics. Just because they want to go and show that they are among the best in the world doesn't make them a sellout or mean that they don't oppose the Chinese government. Equally, people that think Tibet should be free don't think that every rice farmer, lawyer, student and programmer in China belives their goverment is always right. The actions of the government very often do not match the will of the people. Look no further then the US for more examples then you can count.

Let the games go on. Ignore the propoganda on both sides. Protest Chinese politics and policy in a more appropriate place. Don't take away what may well be a once in a lifetime chance for the athletes. This is their dream, not your protest.

Doug, Phoenix, USA

FREE CHINA! sure they need to free Tibet and leave Taiwan alone but lets face it, the people of China are oppressed and abused by their own government as much or more than anyone else. lets work to FREE CHINA too!!!!

Eric, Los Angeles, CA

FREE CHINA!! yes they need to free Tibet and leave Taiwan alone but lets face it, the chinese people themselves are oppressed and abused by thier own government as much or more than anyone else. lets get serious and work to FREE CHINA!!!!!!

Eric, Los Angeles, CA

Give me a break, the Olympics has always been political--look at the way they had to change the scoring in ice skating so no one knows that the French judge is low-balling the score for the US skaters.

I would like to see EVERY athlete march in that stadium and put on a Free Tibet armband. What could they do? They'd either have to let it pass or shut down the entire Olympics. China wants this to pass itself off as a reformed country instead of the dictitorial 3rd world one that it still is.

Cheryl, Houston, TX

I agree that a Fan Boycott is the way to go. Empty seats will deliver a message. And the loss of revenue from travel, food and lodging would be a pinch.

Dan Casper, Michigan,

As most of the comments seem to be from US citizens,do they not see the utter hipocracy of their stance? Kidapping people around the world and imprisoning with out charge,and with no legal rights in another country is just about the worst form of human rights abuse that can be imagined plus "waterboarding" them,China is not perfect but I would rather live there than in the US, at least their people don't have the "right to bear arms" and are thus enabled to shoot their schoolmates and workmates in senseless acts of violence whilst proclaiming "jesus is our saviour" and other sickening rubbish! Try to see the other side of the coin once in a while, the US is seen as an oppressor by many thinking people around the world and, no, you're not the worlds policeman whatever you may think!

Colin, Cebu, Philippines

China is not giving up Tibet and thats just the way it is, no amount of rhetoric or chanting will have anything effect. The Olympics should not be boycotted by the athletes but the people who are expected to go there from Western countries and spend billions should simply stay home. Thats right, fans stay home. But the liberals of the West will demand the Pres Bush keep the teams home will still go to China and justify it with the most lame excuses. Tibet needs to learn that the US is moving a little to the left and the left has attention deficit and does nothing very dificult. Free Tibet? Thats toooo hard. And we won't pay attenion for much longer anyhow.

Tom Westfall, Wheeling, WV,USA

Will China lose any medals for the guaranteed propoganda they'll be putting on all around the games?

I think the first step to regaining integrity for the Olympics would be to ban corporate sponsorship. I'd say okay to donations (tax deductible) and self-identifying as "sponsors" but, no Ads at the Olympics, no "official" this-or-thats of the Olympics or other non-sense.

Next, I'd ban any side-show "demonstrations" by the host nation from the official Olympic venue and schedule. Obviously, some sidebar entertainment with "local" flavor is expected and reasonable. But, return the games to the games themselves.

And, in the future, nations must meet their moral commitments BEFORE the games hosts are selected. That one thing would've prevented all this trouble.

Dan'l, Portland, US

James Wilbur : Chinese people are hard working people, our agenda is to look after our families etc. Do we cause riots in other western countries ?. We are not power crazy like the USA who thinks they are the world's police.

Jade, H.K., China

I believe it was the Roman Emperor Theodosius who banned the Olympics because, as he put it, "they have become a public nuisance".

Plus ca change...

Patrick, Toronto, Canada

I for one will not participate in any way voluntarily to see or hear anything that has to do with the Chinese Olympics, they are an oppressive government to their people and will in time attempt to dominate all who are close to them, and will in time make war against the United States.

James Wilbur, Spokane , Washington

The Olympics have become a huge sick joke. The IOC blathers on about the games having nothing to do with politcics and, then, sides with one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet and will ban any athlete for merely expressing the opinion that the Chinese invasion and takeover of Tibet was wrong? That Chinese troops murdering Tibetan people in the streets is a human rights violation? Give me a break! Only similar dictatorships or those country's in hock to China up to the eyeballs will participate in these Olympics.

Mike Brooks, Eugene, Oregon, USA

Many government blamed the human rights issue in China. As Chinese people, we also prefer more fair competition of parties in China. But i think there is relation with China history, and this not impact our normal life which not as some "foreign" international media reported.
Surely the is some gray period in China which is more reviewed by world people though our goverment try to cover it. But there are still many people admires Mao Ze-dong, including my parents, grandma,, This can be understood as political education of their generation. But it's true that 99% Chinese believes Mao Zeng-dong is the leader of release China from invade of western and Japan. We don's think we are blinded on this issue by some lies, as we have chance to saw the ruined architecture and listen to the old story from our gandma about what they suffered before. They are also satisfing the currently life and often said they can't get the so fast change in China.

Luan, Hangzhou, China

To Dan

Whatever happens, the games this summer will take place. The more athletes who refuse to go, the more medals will be won by China. The act of going, competing, winning and protesting (as did Smith & Carlos) is surely a greater use of one’s freedom of expression than simply not turning up.

Not quite sure what you mean by ‘Liberal’ though. I’d have thought supporting the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan people was taking a fairly liberal position.

Mike, Kent, UK

Obviously, anyone who believes in Freedom of Speech must boycott the Olympics, and all its official sponsors!

Thomas Mc, Colorado Springs,

Couldn't we leave Tibet completely out of this and argue that China's apprehension of dissident lawyers, beating them, and holding them without a trial is such an egregious violation of human rights that we should boycott? It seems that there are just so many failures for China, some of which are a direct result of receiving the Olympic bid.

Political gestures must be allowed at the Olympics, unless they are patently offensive (racism, anti-Semitism, etc.)
-Eric Takoma Park
How exactly do you determine what is offensive and what is political? Clearly the Chinese are patently offended by threats to their territorial dominance, and I don't really think that all of the nations participating in the Olympics this year would call anti-Semitism "patently offensive."
The fact is that any time you censor anyone, for any reason, that is a breach of human rights, and you are on a slippery slope of judgement.

John, Towson, MD, USA

theia, Lausanne, did I get this right?

Beijing 2008 Olympic sponsors: Coke, GE, J&J, Kodak, Lenova, Manulife, McDonalds, Omega, Panasonic, Samsung, UPS, Budweiser, Addidas, VolksWagen.

I bought a VW recently, drunk some Coke and had a McDonalds while watching my Panasonic TV.

I promise you, my behaviour will alter dramatically if this is where they invest their money. Perhaps I am not practicing the 'mindfullness' that the good people of Tibet are famous for.

Thankyou for clearing things up for me. There are alternatives to all of these products. (I would like to know Warren Buffet's take on this considering his stake in Coca Cola.)

Free Tibet.

joe, Berwichshire, Scotland

Zhou Feng,

Ireland to my knowledge has been an independent country for at least 15 years, sporting its own government, culture laws and rights as a independent nation from England. If you doubt this then please look at the public smoking ban law, and the law banning sexual orientation discrimnation in business laws in Ireland compared to the similar laws In England. You will see Ireland made those rules ahead of the British government. Please prove me wrong.

Also If Ireland was not an independent country, why would the British and American governments done so much peace talks with the Irish government? I could be wrong on the entire matter. If I am please tell me so.

James Willett, Lancashire,

Consider this. Without the athletes, there are NO games.

Any athlete who would trade their freedom of expression for a chance to win a competition, is a sellout, supports the Chicom regime, and most likely is a liberal.

Dan, austin, tx

I hope the opening ceremony will have many participants like those great displays in N. Korea! If there's one thing they're good at it is putting on a great spectacle. I went to the celebration of the Chinese New Year in London and it was just great. I can't wait for the opening ceremony in Peking and hope there will be lots of fireworks and dragons too. Bring it on!

Robert de Souza, London ,

For Jin Liu
Treating people in the way that the chinese government do IS a none chinese problem! It is to do with the shared concern and compassion for the people of the world.

The way that the chinese, and the IOC, are behaving no one will turn up let alone banning athletes displaying the Tibet flag.
The IOC admitted yesterday that the Games have become police.. China was only given the games on the condition that they improved human rights. They agreed; that means they took ownership of the fact that improvement is necessary. That is political. They renegade on their word. That is police. That being the case demonstrating against it is viable. That being the case all UK entries should boycott these games.
It is inevitable that some, quite apart from Tibetans, will take the opportunity to create devastation. The situation is wide open for it. I don’t watch anything bloodthirsty on TV so I won’t be watching the games. Not only that I will watch very carefully what I buy in future and not include anything that maybe chinese in origin.

Bob, Warrington, Cheshire

In 1968, Tommy Smith and John Carlos, raised their hands in a black power salute from the podium.

A non-violent protest from the podium of equal power would be for winning athletes in Beijing this summer to turn and face towards Lhasa during the national Anthems, hands together in the Buddhist gesture of peace.

The Chinese government will find it very difficult to suppress this from going out to the wider world.

If the athletes are then expelled for making a political gesture, so be it, their medals would already be won and the political point will be made.

Mike, Kent, UK

Dean, Overland Park, KS, U.S.

My friend, if everyone was to think the same way as you, then the whole world would really be a great place. Unfortunately we have evil people out to disrupt the peace we want.

Every country should honour the Olympic spirit, uphold its principles and dutifully ensure that all forms of disruptive politics be kept away from the Games.

Mr.Dean, I agree, protesting can be done somewhere else.
Let the world have the Games and enjoy it, in true Olympic Spirit. One World One Dream.

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

What about spectators?

What will happen if a spectator waves a Tibetan flag?

SPJ, London,

In other words, the Athletes are allowed a very limited freedom of speech!? However, the Chinese, are allowed full freedom of speecht and action!!

francis schutte, Port St-Lucie, Florida

Jin Liu: the Chinese had no right in the first place to invade a sovereign nation! And to compound the invasion have transported 1000s of Chinese into Tibet to out number the indigenous Tibetans. No amount of "improvement" will make up for loss of sovereignity andlnational identity.

FC Fleming, Gosport, UK

Time to put this massive waste of money out to pasture.
I won't be watching a single hormonally-enhanced 'athlete' this year, or any other year.
I'd rather play sports myself, than sit in an armchair, raising my blood pressure watching a Chinese Triumph of Will.

Sarah N., London, UK

Massive boycott, that's what I say! I'd love to see swimmers refusing to jump on the pools, runners standing still at the start line, winners refusing their medals... I'd cry out of happiness!

Let the Chinese authorities drown in shame!

L, P.A.,

I'm sick and tired reading and hearing about this "embarrassment" and "losing face" that the Chinese seem to fear! Which is worse: "losing face", or being violently suppressed, mudered and having your entire country and culture destroyed forever? Maybe the Chinese need to stop worrying about themselves and start to consider how THEY would feel if the situation was reversed! People can survive "embarrassment". They CAN'T survive what the Chinese have already done in Tibet, let alone what they continue to do!

John Bonnington, Covina, California USA

Y'know, China's Politburo really doesn't get it. The Tibet issue is just the tip of the iceberg. Wait until athletes start saying Free Beijing as well as Free Tibet, then the Communist Party might realise what the Olympic Ideal is really about.

These Olympics can be politics free when the Chinese people are free.

A Brown, London, UK

Unless the Chinese government quickly relents, oppression of the athletes' freedom of expression in their dorm rooms should be the straw that broke the camel's back. The televison networks and advertisers already have invested a lot in the Bejing games but it is time to "just say no" to Bejing. The Chinese are trying to improve their image, but their actions are exploding like fireworks in their face. Bejing is using the Olympics, which it apparently believes cannot be cancelled, to attempt to bully and force its autocratic political views upon the world.

Don, Smyrna, GA

First, let me say that the Olympic Games are over-commercialized and over-taxed to the host country. Of course, China can afford to over-tax its population :)

Second, do you think you can just march into a host country and impose your own morality there such as free speech - just asking, not being sarcastic??

Third, asking to roam freely in a military hot spot (Tibet) from the host country is not going to happen or is going to be severely limited.

Fourth, as happened during the Moscow 1980 Olympics, Bejing will probably be 'pruned' of undesirables so that chance encounters with dissenters by foreigners is minimized. Foreigners will also be spied on and trailed wherever they go.

Fifth, the Olympics should be scrapped. The whole "Olympics" concept has become so corrupted and are revolting to watch.

Sixth, if Britain and the US and EU truly believe in what they preach, then they should boycott the Beijing games.

Bob, New York, NY, USA

I am boycotting the olympics.

Not watching.

I find the conduct of the IOC even more distasteful than China's.

Let them have their sporting events, without basic human freedom, and viewers.

john, new york city,

Well, I'm boycotting. I already do my best to not buy chinese. Now I will only watch the olympics long enough to write down advertisers to avoid in the future.

I'm one guy but it's a start.

lee Schmortz, california, USA

The IOC knew that when they awarded the games to Bejing, they were rewarding a repressive, Communist dictatorship. Shame on them. Now, in the name of "peaceful" sport they are going to stifle the freedom of the athletes so that they will not embarrass the dictators. More shame on them. I won't be watching the Games, even though I love the Olympics, and I will consider carefully if I can do without the sponsor's products in the future. If the Games are in Crisis, the IOC has no one to blame but themselves.

Wade, Sharon Springs, NY, USA

It appears ok to shoot, torture, demonize, and oppress Tibetans but not ok to sport a Free Tibet tshirt. Welcome to the 21st Century.

Robert Badu, Montreal, Canada

There is an excellent way to not subject one's self to sanctions: Stay home!

I encourage ALL USA athletes to do just that, stay home.

Recognizing China by going is simply saying that we are willing to ignore their inhuman treatment of their own citizens, along with those of other countries.

DON'T PARTICIPATE! PLEASE!

Russell, Provo, UT

Oh great! Welcome to the 2008 Communist World Olympics! Where's the freedom of speech? Communist Red White and Blue!

Jeffy, Los Angeles, USA

What is "free" about Tibet with a system under its "hereditary King" where there are NO political parties No Elections
NO independant judiciary NO freedom of the press??.I abhor the Chinese system of government but to call Tibet "free" under the Dalai Lama and his "religious oliharchy" is to misuse the word and concept of freedom

Swami Lord Collins, York, UK

There is a very good stretch an athlete can do while warming up immediately before an event starts. You know, when everyone is watching and you may be a bit nervous, so you need to keep loose. Just hold your arms out at right angles to your body, like a cross. It feels good. Keeps you limber. Some people might say it looks like a "T", as in Tibet, but that would be silly, right? You can't kick an athlete out for stretching.

It's terrible that the IOC has so politicized the games.

Shaun Smith, Toronto, Canada

In short, sports has become the alternative battlefield for ideologies.

dodjie, Quezon City, Philippines

Zhou Feng, I have seen anti-CNN.com. It can best be described in my mind "clutching at straws". Most of the alleged 'lies' are nothing more than a alck of clarity giving rise to potential misinterpretation. For example the pictures of Nepali police beating protesters with comments underneath such as "During the Lhasa riots". Shoddy editing but hardly proof of a widescale deliberate attempt to present a false picture. Almost all news outlets I read which include the main "western" media gave plenty of column inches to the fact that many of the protests were not peaceful. This article for one as you say refers to them as "riots". But most western journalists and people do believe the right of people for a high degree of self-determination regarding their government. This is why they will generally appear hostile to the Chinese regime (but not people).

Dave, Beijing, China

Have you ever been to China or TIbet ?Tibet is a province of China nearly 800 years,Since this 50 years Han Chinese been help Tibetan built shopping centers,Hotels,Motoways..Do u guys know how many Han died duiling help tibetan built that railway?(terrible weather)We delivery water,food,vegetables from mainland China to Tibet every single day.Tibetans could teach own language and religion in local.they dont need pay tax and dont need follow one-child policy !!me born in Beijing after 1980s so all of my friends are from one-child family,we dont have any brothers or sisters ,But Tibetan could give birth many children they want!!we been teach have to be friendly to Tibetan and all other minority since infants' school! I was crying every night of western media are lying about tibet issue!There is no genocide in China, none!!Olympic is a bridge of friend ,not a playgroud of politics!!

Jojo , london, UK

If any of you really want to make a difference. Hit where it hurts. Here is a list of Beijing 2008 Olympic sponsors: Coke, GE, J&J, Kodak, Lenova, Manulife, McDonalds, Omega, Panasonic, Samsung, UPS, Budweiser, Addidas, VolksWagen. These are western corporate sponsors hoping to cash in on the Beijing Olympics.

Email them and ask why they are sponsoring an organization, IOC, that is bowing to Beijing and supporting the repression of free speech. They can try to point out that olympics is separate from politics all they want. At this point, the IOC is condoning repression of free speech.

theia, Lausanne,

"if there is a part of your country want to get independence,will you let it to be?"

zhangxiaoyi, chengdu, china

Zhangxiaoyi - Yes. Scotland and Wales have nationalist parties that their populations can vote for. If the SNP in Scotland as they might gained a majority of vote then they could push a refurendum on independence. There is a definate mechanism in place for this to occur without recourse for violence. I see no need for Scotland to be independent and do not support blind nationalism but it is right that they have this option. But there again giving this option to Tibet would raise the wider issue of democracy in China full stop.

Dave, Beijing, China

After the recent murders of innocent shop keepers in Tibet by The Dalai Lama's terrorist squads, the world is begininning to realize that the Dalai Lama is not much different from Osama Bin Laden.

Its a shame that Nanci Pelosi supports terrorism in Asia. Shame on you, Pelosi. You should behave better than that!

Mark, Minneapolis , Minnisota/USA

Come to China and experience the place, come to Tibet and witness the progresses, developments and reality, you will find the answer. Do NOT just sit there and repeat what TV tells you...it's just a machine. What i really know is, through out these years, people at Tibet have better lives than what they had ever before. You won't have RIGHT approach unless you come and understand in person and objectively. Olympic is a podium of sports, not a battle field for politics. We have to be "fair play".

Deedy, China,

Why are we encouraging athletes to boycott the Games and not doing the same for business men who deal with China and the airlines that sell tickets to help us visit the Games?

Al, weybridge, UQ

'Everyone is equal, except some people are more equal than others'! This is the true meaning of communism and is what China is all about. The true ideals of Marx and others are long forgotten and Chinese officials take the best for themselves, the poor get poorer and all are brainwashed from birth that their regime is the best. Having lived and taught in China I have seen this first hand where money buys you the best power, education and healthcare etc..The Chinese teachers I worked with were teaching the Chinese 5 and 6 year olds how bad the Japanese were and were totally ignorant of Western cultures and had never heard of Elvis or The Beatles. You think that Chinese made products you purchase in the West are bad quality? That's the best they make-the products for their domestic market are even worse, and the Chinese acccept that something only lasts for a week as they don't know anything else. Ignorance is bliss? Chinese Governments plan-you can't riot for what you don't know about!!

Mrs Ess, Madrid, Spain

Does the IOC's edict strike anyone as familiar? To me it is redolent of the scent of George Orwell: opinion good, propaganda bad. They don't define propaganda, leaving it open to the interpretation of the athletes, and allowing them to impose their prohibition measures at will, depending on general mood of the Olympics.

Personally, I would love to see the British athletes protest at the Olympics, not about the freeing of Tibet, or Darfur, but about our own countries misdemeanours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Would that be seen as propaganda or opinion? How about in 4 years times, what would it be seen as in London?

Martin, Bristol,

The IOC tries to keep all politics out of the Olympics except its own –a little research into the background of its members will give an indication of what the organisation is really about. Try wikipeding Rogge’s predecessor, Juan Antonio Samaranch i Torelló, President of the IOC from 1980 to 2001, to find out where he was coming from politically - and as Rogge was seen as the embodiment of continuity, well what do you expect? Will they be bursting into athletes’ rooms at 2 in the morning with heavy mob or doing random strip searches of swimmers? Big joke the whole thing.

Neverthless, I hope the Chinese people enjoy their Games and that the Tibetans get their say and are listened to.

Robin , Barcelona, Spain

[comments deleted by the Internet Society of China / Great Firewall]

Although this is sarcasm ... look it up ... the ISC is real.

Now let the Games begin!

Eric, San Jose, California - USA

It is unfair to put so much pressure on the athletes. Why can't our politicians take up the issue? Is that not what they are there for, for crying out loud!

Brijit, Paris, France

The IOC was fooled by China. The Olympics bid shouldn't have been given to China to begin with. What kind of Olympic is this when athletes of the rest of the world have to subject to type harassment and threats? Let the chinese athletes compete with themselves then.

JohnTTTTT, Arcadia, USA

This shouldn’t effect British Athletes as the BOA had already got a gagging contract for them in place. Speak out and you will not be on the British Olympic Team. How very German 1936 of them.

Antony Masters, Battersea, London, UK

The olympics unfortunately tend to be about politics, however, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

I hope that there will be the same enthusiasm for protest whenever the United States holds the next games, given their unilateral invasion of another sovereign state based on spurious evidence, the tacit approval of torture methods during interrogation of detainees - or enemy combatants as the legal fraternity call it - the use of the death penalty etc etc.

Isn't it very easy to pick on the Chinese given they are so culturally and linguistically different from the west? I would also like to know what has happened to the moral standards of reporting in the free-democratic west - namely giving two sides to the story. To think that Tibet is full of peace-loving buddhist monks who believe in non-violent protest is naive in the extreme.

David, Dublin, Ireland

Free Speach

Sadly, I still haven't heard a Chinese poster support Tibet.

Is this because they don't care about Tibetans?
Do they all believe Communist Party propaganda?
Do they know what is going on in Tibet?
Are they scared they would be thrown in jail?

There are a variety of views from Western posters but only one from China. Does this mean that everyone in China thinks the same thing?

My guess is that when you have a murderous totalitarian regime then you either have the right idea or you end up in prison or dead.

I am very disappointed - but not too surprised - that I have not heard an ethnic Chinese person supporting Tibet. They will know that friends and relatives would be put in danger if they did.

How can we have an Olympics in such a country.

Free Tibet. (And yes, Tibet is a sovereign nation and should be represented at the Olympics under its own flag.)

joe, Berwichshire, Scotland

George Masters, Anchorage, AK

Yes George, they would look great and very cute in saffron robes but they run a great risk. The Chinese security might shoot them thinking they are Tibetan monks, protesting in the stadium.

According to you Westerners, Chinese police are mad and brutal . They shoot at peaceful protesters. So why take the risks?

George, you and your nutty ideas!

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

Keep politics out of the games? What ever happened to free speech? Apparantly the Olympics is allowed to stomp all over them. If that's the case, the Olympics has lost its morals and should just end. Frankly I won't be tuning in, I think this has become a complete farce.

David , London,

G K Emmet,

whilst your view is right, ild like to add to the image you have painted. Remember the bombs dropping on baghdad? Our government to has innocent blood on its hand, at a guess, ild say on a larger scale than china.

joseph, london,

What a world conscience!There are almost 1.5Billion Chinese in the world,I can say almost 99.9% Chinese will support Olympic and be proud of the game.Why you don't respect Chinese feeling!Just protest again and again?Why you don't care Chinese feeling.
Anyway If China go to unset ,All World will become worse. How Stupid you are!

Jae, Gd, China

Let the athletes make their way to the Olympics. As they are free to express their opinion, let them do so.
And, on the Opening Day Ceremony, all wear a saffron robe!
What will the IOC do? Stop the games? Yeah, right!

George Masters, Anchorage, AK

Great job IOC, Athelets have no right take any stand during relay.even in China,also couldn't take China nation flag.
U.S. is a super-country,but it athelets have not superior than the other athelets.
Obey the rule of sport ,or go home play with your lama~!

Jassury, Tieling,

david , woodbury, mn

David my boy, shhh. Just keep it to yourself. No one would bother if you watch half a minute or watch the whole game. Can anyone possibly know?

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

A Haiku titled: An analysis of the international response to China, stimulated by the media focus generated by the Olympic games, on the issue of human rights abuse, and more specifically with regards to the current crisis in Tibet:

We shout that they smell
Yet they notice nothing but
Their own reflection

Mark, Woking, UK

I thought propaganda was carried out by government, not individuals.

Dick, ENNIS, IRELAND

My view is simple:
Last year Chinese soldiers shot dead unarmed Tibetian women and children as they tried to leave China through the mountains.
This year the Chinese Army have killed at least 120 (probably unarmed) in Lhasha, more than 10 in Sichuan Province.
Its not whether Tibet needs to be free of China or whether Tibet is part of China.
Human rights, human rights, human rights.......you dont just murder people because they voice their opinions and wish to have religious freedom..............Human rights 'were' to be addressed by China as a condition of having the honour of hosting Olympic Games.
Yes Tibet is Chinese. No Tibet does not have religious freedom or freedom of speech.
You also cannot impose these rules on any participating athlete or journalist.
Get real - don't be puppets - bad men become evil because good men don't act!

G K Emmit, winchester, UK

The hypocrisy here is nauseating. For instance Frank of NYC, NY USA pontificates about "joining the Elite" and being "civilized" is garbage. He and his country have been a racist country from the very beginning of its conception when Natives were murdered and moved about and finally herded into Reservations. The USA also traded in slaves and blacks were segregated and sat at the back of buses and used swimming pools after whites (but Chinese and Japanese and others used them after the blacks). Blacks did not have any rights until recently (just like Aborignes in Australia) and just like Nazi Germany the USA enacted racist laws in their highest institutions such as the racist Exclusion Laws for Chinese. Today it is American guns, tanks, jet fighters and missiles that is killing Palestinians and it is US money too. The Kurds are attacked by American tanks and jets and it is the USA who gave the Turks permission to attck them. But of course being whit and European, they are allowed to

Francis, Halifax, UK

The Olympics have always been about politics and corruption.
Have we forgotten about East Germany, Russia, and the USA drugging there athletes up to the eye balls to prove what that their way is better than our way?
What a bore!
Where can I hide whilst it dominates the TV?
Worse how much is it costing the UK for 2012. and do we really think its all being spent to amuse us.
More fun can be had watching the 11yr olds playing football on the local playing field and even that is getting out of hand.
Yawn. Ron

Ronald John Bentham, Nantwich , UK

I have an Idea, just to be fair to Tibet and every other nation in the world. Why not allow any flags (not even the Chinese flag) that way no propaganda could be uttered and no one could be offended.

No ceremonies, no speeches, just the sport events with no spectators there. That way it would be a politically correct, non offensive and non embarrassing event for ANYONE.

In fact, why not just ban games full stop? That way no one can get upset, embarrassed or angry about anything.

Funny thing about freedom of speech, you can either have it completely free or not have it at all. And If China does not want people to have freedom of speech on certain issues; they might as well do everything in total silence.

James Willett, Lancashire,

It is clear that the IOC has become the instrument and mouthpiece of the Chinese Communist Party.

How else can one explain statements and actions of the IOC that characterize free expression of individual belief as "propaganda" while simultaneously allowing the Chinese Communist Party to manipulate the entire Olympic process for shameless party and state propaganda?

This ugly process has gone too far. Beijing 2008 is reprising Berlin 1936.

Extinguish the torch.

Obstruct the Olympics.

Expose Chinese Communist Party lies.

End Chinese Communist Party misrule.

Free Tibet.

RHE, NJ, USA

Excuse me - but what has happenend to free speach. The IOC, given such threats, are no better than the authorities in China.

The Police in the UK arresting people for wearing t-shirts expressing a view is similalry no better.

Next the Times will be surpressing these comments fora.

Free tibet!!!!

D Buchanan, Glasgow, Scotland

It is easy to believe tales of Chinese atrocities because they have quite recent form. According to Jung Chang, Mao Zedong killed as many as 70 million during his various programs of categorical extermination. It's certainly in eight figures. Today's Chinese leaders were born during that period.

Frank Upton, Solihull,

zhou feng,

To my Knollege Irelend is an indipendant state, It has Its own goverment, laws and rights as a indipendant state. I think you are behind 15 years in the history books. Ireland actually brouhght out a ban on smoking in public buildings and homophobic discrimation in shops before England did if you want proof. Please Prove me wrong.

James Willett, Lancashire,

Interesting how many nations boycotted the 1980 olympics. Could it have anything to do with the US leading the taking of that particular stand? If that were true, it's interesting that they do nothing this time - are they scared of China? I think so!

Alex, London,

All sport has for a long time been polluted by commercialism. Look at the abomination that football has become. The Olympics has now also been hijacked by political interests and for this the blame rests squarely with the IOC.
Don't blame the athletes and don't ask them to sacrifice their whole lives to take up the mantle that politicians should have addressed years ago but blatantly failed to do.
Politicians of all countries and the IOC in particular are solely to blame for the mess that the Olympics have become and it is up to them to sort it out - but don't hold your breath.
I hope that the London Olympics in 2012 will restore some sanity to what should be a glorious celebration of an individual athlete's ability and absolutely nothing more than that.

Reg Tripp, Alton, U K

"But there are still many grey areas and concerns among human rights campaigners that athletes’ right to free speech will be curtailed to avoid embarrassing their Chinese hosts."

Basically what this is saying is "We don't want to 'offend' the oppressors. Let's play 'nice' with them." To me, this is the equivalent of everyone putting on their best Sunday faces and best Sunday clothes for church while acting like total heathens in private the rest of the days of the week. It's absolutely disgusting and without character. I, for one, am all for speaking up when I see an injustice being done. It is our right as human beings.

I find it ironic that athletes are being told to keep politics out of the games when politics are exactly the reason they are being told that. I am disgusted that people are being silenced for the sake of some games when extreme violations of human rights are being violated. i guess the dog and pony show is more important than human rights and human lives...

Andrew, Baghdad, Iraq,

The Old Men in Zhongnanhai just don't get it, not any better than they did when I first moved to mainland China in mid-1985. Citing "irrelavent political issues" is itself irrelavent.

Well, China had a dictator in the form of an emperor for practically it's entire history, so maybe it's too much to expect it to change in a few generations. . . .

Mekhong Kurt, Bangkok, Thailand

If the Olympics is going to exist, it must be devoid of politics. The Olympics can be a symbol that all human beings, no matter what their differences are, have enough humanity to join together to celebrate the joy of life in a great athletic event. There's hope for mankind if we can do it. I'm an American and jewish , but I want the Iranians, Syrians, Palestinians, and every other country to be at the Olympics. We can all do our protesting somewhere else.

Dean, Overland Park, KS, U.S.

Political gestures must be allowed at the Olympics, unless they are patently offensive (racism, anti-Semitism, etc.) Certainly, support for Tibet and human rights in China do not fall into that category. The Olympics, being one of the most globally visible events, is an ideal venue (perhaps the most effective one) to bring high visibility to major international issues. If athletes waving Tibetan flags and wearing Free Tibet t-shirts are embarrassing to China, so be it, in fact, so SHOULD it be. The IOC needs to get out of the business of suppressing freedom of expression. If it does not, it occupies the same moral territory as the Chinese government!

What happened to Tommie Smith and John Carlos is outrageous, and the hostile American reaction to their gesture (including death threats) showed that their protest was justified. A call to change the world will inevitably make some people very angry. The IOC can't be afraid of that.

Eric, Takoma Park, Maryland, USA

Red China is a pure police state and sad to say, so are the Western nations mimicking their system gradually. The Chinese gov't elite execute those who dissent and harvest their victims' organs for world market sale. While we can, we need to make a big stink about their gross human rights abuses and slaughters while we still have a voice. Proudly display your FREE TIBET signs and Tibetan flags!

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing...."(Santayana)

tom, CA., USA

The Chinese wanted to join civilized nations on the world stage. They fought hard for the Olympics. I believe they should not have gotten the Games. But now they have them and we should deluge them with the responsibility of being a respectable nation. The first step is to allow free speech and dissent. I am not a Tibet activist but I think it is a great symbol of so many problems that exist in China. Bottom line: if they want to join the world's elite, they need to play by different rules, not two-bit dictator rules.

Frank, NYC, NY USA

Should never have been put in China. They could have them in Australia every time and I'd be happy. I'm hoping some athletes show some guts and demonstrate.

If ALL of them did, what will China do? Nothing.

Dennis Justice, Fletcher, NC

Will Taiwan be allowed to participate?

Kevin L. Kitchens, Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Tibet is not a country. There is nothing to argue about, it is like NSW is part of Austrlia, England is park of UK, Utah is part of USA, County Kerry is part of Ireland...

The history of Tibet being part of China is longer than the history of Australia, US.....

For those who say Tibet is a country, please have some education first. By education I don't mean media.

Frances Guo, Brisbane, Australia

The Chinese plan on using the Olympic games in the same way that Hitler did with the 1936 Berlin games. It will be used as one giant propaganda machine promoting China to the world.

No one stood up to Hitler's Germany in 1936. Will the world stand silent while China practices their cruelty on places like Tibet and Dafur? Has nothing changed in all these years?

James Bidwell, Chicago, Illnois

Anyone who dont know the history of Tibet has no qualification to make a comment.The chinese government has done its best to improve the living condition.Please notice this problem, there are many many people in china.I think it is need time to solve all those problems which have nothing to do with the non-chinese.

Jin Liu , Wuhan, China

China says no politics in the Olympics yet they boycotted the Olympics in '76 and '80 because Taiwan referred to themselves as the Republic of China. If that's not politics, them I'm a monkey's uncle. These games have always been politicized. Shame on IOC. We need a new governing body if the Olympics are to survive.

Joe, Mobil, AL

Interesting... Jacques Rogge has proscribed propaganda at the Olympics; but, based on history, the entire opening ceremony will be one, long, boring exercise in propaganda for the communist Chinese. (Note ingo’s post, below.)

Monroe, California, U.S.A.

"Give Ireland its independence."

Ireland/Eire *is* independent. NORTHERN Ireland is a region within the UK, with its own representative governing body, elected by the people who live there. It's not perfect, but after the troubles of the recent past it's a step in the right direction. Kind of like what the Dalai Lama's proposed for Tibet....oh, but the media here hasn't told you that, has it?

Pete, China,

The Olympics are all about politics. The the teams are by country the medal count by country etc. My country is better than your country. The athletes try to stay true to the spirit of their sport but they get a lot of pressure to play the game. I don't blame the protesters. They can't protest in China or Tibet or they will be killed. The Chinese Government has brought this on themselves by their domination and oppression of the Tibetan and Chinese people. I just wished the athletes themselves would refuse to compete. That would send a far bigger message than any political ploy.

Jim, Ft.Worth, Texas

When the Olympics end, the renewal of attention on Tibet and Darfur brought about by the Olympics having been in China will, eventually and hopefully, contribute to more emerging justice. China can silence its own and intimidate its business clients, but it cannot silence CNN, the BBC etc. The free press of the WORLD, if not China's press, will keep these stories alive, along with millions of people worldwide who have awakened to China's moral regressions. In a sense, the Olympics are over even before they started. But these stories of injustice and national shame will not end with a doused flame.

Bruce , West Palm Beach, USA Florida

I will not watch ! minute of the Games. And it is a big thing to me as I love the Olympics. Not 1 minute

david , woodbury, mn

Rogge has to be taken to the International Court. He is promoting Chinese politics and China's propaganda. He is the one Chinese tool that makes all the world protest meaningless.

Rudy, Shanghai, China

And what about the Chinese objections to the Taiwanese contingent when the games were held in Canada?

Bill Brown, San Luis Obispo, California

All free nations should boycott the Olympics.

Rob Munn, San Diego, CA, USA

Any signs of sympathy for Tibet are forbidden at the Olympics so as not to embarrass the Chinese government? You can't even have a flag or T-shirt that is pro-Tibet in your OWN dorm room? Does this mean that the blue-suited thugs are going to do room inpsectons?

The Chinese goverment SHOULD be embarrassed.

Alicia Garcia, Albuquerque, NEW Mexico, USA

If people really want to make an impact on the games, the best way to make a protest is to make the companies who sponsor the games, their products will be boycotted.

Stephen, St. Ives, England

Can you please all open your own mind a little bit? Is there a chance that you have been brain washed by the media you have been watching and listening all these year?

Frances Guo, Brisbane, Australia

Those that go to play should stay.

The others should go to Berkley and protest with two or three Tibet flags if they want.

John, Allen, TX

No Politics!

For the people who want to use olympic game for your own 'purpose', SHAME ON YOU!

Free Olympic!

lEO, AMHERST, NY

Perhaps the brilliant minds running the IOC should have given more thorough though to awarding the Olympic games to an abusive totalitarian regime such as China.

Only nations who show respect for human rights should enjoy such priviledges.

Matt, St. Louis, MO, USA

The Olympics have long passed into obscurity. They only exist to line the coffers of the media outlets. The athletes are and have always been pawns, even in the beginning with one country pitting it's best against anothers. For what purpose? Simply to say, "We're better than you!" Same old same old... I don't watch it, just a waste of my valuable time. The best thing is to find a sport you can participate in and enjoy your own efforts, not line the pockets of media or professional athletes. Phooey on Olympics!

George, Hazelwood, USA/Missouri

After Rogge spoke about respecting human rights, this was posted on china.org: "The glorious peoples games will not waver from saluting the glorious Olympic flag. Together we will march into the socialist future, by vanquishing all enemies and denouncing the evil intentions of the imperialist west. The splittist activities of the dalai clique will be crushed. We will not fail." glad to see our dialogue with China is really making a difference. Tell the "glorious" sponsors like coca-cola, samsung, lenova and adidas I won't be buying their products, or watching this clown show.

ingo , los angeles,

Here's what athletes can do to circumvent this: do en masse a simple but unmistakeable act during the opening ceremonies, such as EVERYBODY WEAR THEIR SHIRTS INSIDE OUT. How can you prevent or punish something like that? No armband to confiscate, no Tibetan flag to easily label "propaganda," but instead something with no inherent meaning, but whcich eberyone will know what it means. Other variants: carry your shoes in your hands (in the Middle East, this would imply an insult), carry your shirt in your hands as a quasi -flag, etc.

S Farias, Austin, TX

I have a deep respect for the sacred traditions, but the games in modern times are propaganda mills for whichever country is hosting, generally.

The IOC would do well to cancel the Olympic Torch relay altogether, since it has now been used by China to smash dissent. It is obvious that the Chinese government does not respect universal human rights accorded to all people under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Clearly, China cannot be trusted nor will it follow through on its agreement for a more open society. This is why the Chinese who are temporarily given broader access to the Internet cannot understand the worldwide furor and protests: they have been brainwashed and controlled by an authoritarian regime that is hell-bent on convincing the world that they can be a part of the global village. Obviously, they don't care that the Tibetans are a sovereign people and China refuses to embrace democracy.

James, San Francisco, USA

With everything being manufactured in China, even our kid's questionable toys and the money they receive (although paying the Chinese women very little and forcing them to live in dormitories) why not default on the debt? History shows every country seems to default on the debt they own America(n's).

SueD., Phoenix, AZ

It is so good to see the power of world wide free discussion on the internet.
What good hearted human on this earth does not feel for the Tibetans and their Buddhist culture? China also aids and abets Sudan in it's horrible crimes against her own minorities in the south and west. "Face" is such a major thing for Chinese People that it is hopeless to expect any compromises coming from them. Of course this internet and satellite news makes them fall further in the eyes of the world with each passing day.

Boycotting the games was a mistake in Moscow. I think it is impractical today and unfair to the great athletes and those of us who wish to see the most skilled and accomplished athletes in the world. Please remember our own Jesse Owens who beat the master race in Deutschland. There are creative, non violent ways to attend the games and still register our protest at this bloody and corrupt communist government. The Chinese people themselves can and should be our friends.

Stephen Molasky, Chicago, Il, USA

Zhou Feng,

Ireland is independent!
The point is that the Chinese government is a repressive one with total control over the media in your country. Your ignorance is a wonderful example of that repression.

Joris, Woerden, The Netherlands

This Tibet stuff is ridicules. people dont read. there is no free tibit movement. the "exiled" government change its platform almost 2 decades ago. Tibetans only make up 35% of the population of the tibet autonomous region.

the Tibetans have absolutely legitimate issues of protest. On average they make about 40% of what a Han Chinese in the Provence makes.

(kind of like how your average African American family makes 60% of your average white family.)

Tibetans HAVE IT BETTER than Weegers in Xinxian.
I mean seriously? all this moral posturing is absurd. No one cares about the weegers because there Muslim? its not about human rights at all. its a bandwagon. get over yourselves.

patrick, Philadelphia , PA

zhou feng you dont get this do you? oh wait that's right you are from china where you can not get anything but propaganda History is on the side of the people of Tibet not the CCP The Olympic Games are being held in a repressive and destructive country and as such should be boycotted until the Chinese government gives freedom to everyone in China and Ireland is free my friend i figured i would point that out to you and oh yeah Taiwan is also free maybe there still is hope for China afterall

Joel Walters, Altoona, USA,PA

i can't stand communism but i also can't stand the lies about the dalai lama and tibetan budism. as bad as communisim is it has been much better than the dalai lama. tibet had no education, no healthcare, virtually no economy, no science before communisim conquered budism. the life expectancy was really low, infant mortality very high, and literacy rates very low.

communism isn't the answer nor are bogus interpretations and outright lies about the past.

mark, chappy, usa

Free world countries should pull out! Start their own Games!

Randy Cupples, Maimi, FL, USA

China is hosting the Olympics solely for the poiltical purpose of attempting to legitimatize their position in the world.
It's nonsense that they claim the Olympics should be devoid of political commentary.

Joe Hamilton, Santa Clara, CA

I am 80 yrs old, and all of you should remember, the Olympics in the Old Greek Tradition was that all enmities, politics, and wars should cease while the Olympics were being held. Let the athletes do their best, no matter what country they are in, or what is going on in the world. They are all there for one purpose.... to do their best for their country. I will not watch anymore Olympics, since it is so disgusting to see demonstrations, howling mobs, etc.
Some of the countries' athletes show up drunk or on drugs. Also, it is mostly the priveleged and wealthy who go to the games, and many of the athletes on different countries, due to lack of funding, never make it to the Olympics. After the last one in Greece, -- I don't care to watch anymore. The true spirit of the Olympics has disintegrated into mobocracy & name calling.

willabelle, Bremerton, U.S.A., Washington

the only thing that we can not change is truth. i hope you tell your advice after konwing the truth.
as a chinese,i love my homeland as you love yours.if there is a part of your country want to get independence,will you let it to be?
there ae two kinds of men who always make jokes, one is know nothing ,the other is only know something but themselves think they know all.

zhangxiaoyi, chengdu, china

The saddest part of all the protests... Chinese people are seeing none of it since the State run media is blocking it all.

The Olympic Games goes to China. What a farce. Athletes go to China to compete and are told what to say and what to wear. Welcome to China planet Earth!

Every country should boycott these Olympic games and embarrass China on a global scale, not to mention have them eat all the costs for construction. Money better spent taking care of their people.

Ken J, Virginia Beach, Virgina, USA

It is suggested that the athletes wear the colors of a Tibetan robe as part of or underneath their "costumes" as they parade around during the opening ceremony.

They also could use the same color theme as part of their warmup uniforms and in the stands as a mild form of protest.

Personally, I would like to see all Heads of Democratic Countries boycott the games to drive home a message to the Communists running the games, IOC included.

Ralph, Pompano Beach, USA, Florida

Let the Games begin !! without any reference to Tibet or any other nation. The Olympics should be free from any political interference from the athletes, some rigid rulings should be set up now, and no tolerence should be accepted from any athlete, a swift removal of any participating athlete(s) from the games and asked to leave the country forthwith without acclamation of their victory medals which will be forfeited immediatly.
The Olympic games must be carried out in a friendly atmosphere, with clear heads and minds, no admosity towards anyone or countries. Let the Games begin.!!

Tom Atkins, chilliwack, Canada

If you want to give up your chance to compete for political religous view, you have earned that right with your talent. If you want to bow down to tyranny just to compete, you got that right too....I would basically refuse to honor chinas human right violations by agreeing to be silent, but refusing to as a lone man gesture would be futile, so id compete, then pull a limelight sideshow...i expect these anticipated gesturs of support will be the high light of the olympics, oh yeah and then theres al-queda....we have are share of human rights violations right here, i agree with chiina there...hitler wouldnt acknowlege black gold medal winners....would we compete if china persecuted christians....isnt fallun gong and tibetian buddism like yoga and hippies....never forget this is the last bastion of communism.....

J manley, palmdale, california

Fact is, there was foreign news media in Lhasa when the Tibetan rioters began beating and killing the Chinese shop owners. There were also foreigners from any number of countries that reported this. That's how those of us who weren't spoon-fed the sanitized version of the news got to see the videos of the atrocities that were perpetrated on the Chinese by the Tibetan rioters: Chinese being beaten over the head with rocks, burnt bodies of Chinese being carried out of their shops, a Chinese man lying in a hospital with his jugular slashed, a woman lying in a hospital with an injured back after being thrown out of a second story window, etc., etc,. etc. It's a shame that your news media has covered up the facts in order to suck up to the pro-Tibetan independence criminals.

Bernard, Newington, USA

It is increasingly looking as if 2008 will be the last-ever Olympics.

Bob Evans, Anaheim, California

This is totally a joke, the US and other non-authoritarian states should boycott the 2008 Propaganda Games.


At least we know 1 thing: the Chi Comm government hasn't changed at all... authoritarian before, authoritarian now, authoritarian in the future

Andrew, Chicago, USA

What the free nations should do is withdraw completely and have their own games at a recent venue. Or perhaps have it in different cites around the world for different events.

But we shouldn't dignify China in the least. I suspect we could lure most of the 205 countries away. The communist Chinese are bullies and unfortunately my country and the EU have enriched these thugs in the name of cheap goods. Now they are arming like never before.

Its weird. I feel like I'm living in 1929 watching the crash and the opening moves in world war II. But, its the present and China is Japan, Chavez is Mussolini and Iran is Germany. I'm just not sure what side Russia will be on, but it was the same back then. Like I said weird.

Rick, Chicago, USA

China has said .. "keep politics out of the games!"

What a farce! The IOC and the entire premise of the Olympic Games is among the most blatant of political statements. There can be no fellowship and jovial cameraderie as long as there exists people around the world in dire straits of oppression. And, that means Tibet, included.

Alexander Moon, Roanoke, Virginia, USA

The press should have a field day showing the Chinese government for what it is. The more restrictive the government, the more they will be seen for what they are.

In the venues and especially in their own rooms, the IOC should draw the line, not the Chinese government.

Carrie, Pasadena, CA, USA

I hope the athletes are smart enough to realize that once they've finished competing (and are just hanging around partying in the Olympic Village) that they can then hang their Tibetan flags in their windows or wear Tibetan T shirts or carry Tibetan flags and there's nothing the Chinese can do about it.

Dave Rywall, Toronto, Canada

Killing and harming people to sustain a society (Chinese communism) which exists for the sole purpose of helping people is idiocy in these modern times. It should never be tolerated by anyone, anywhere, as long as we are all alive on this planet.

The TIBETAN CULTURE is a symbol of compassion and peace, that should be protected at all costs, by everyone in the world.

Do you promote the killing of Dr. Martin Luther King? Of Mother Teresa? of Ghandi? of the Dalai Lama? of Jesus Christ? of the Virgin Mary?

Then why would you choose death upon the ancient Tibetan culture?

Todd Hamilton, Seattle, WA, USA

an athlete of good conscience should simply boycott the games in China -- to say that it's not about politics is to be naive and absurd -- China sees the Olympics a politically important to condone its human rights offenses -- democracies everywhere should protest by keeping their athletes home

Jack Wilson, Dunsmuir, California USA

Give Ireland its independence.

zhou feng, Chong qing, China

I am not watching the olympic games and I urge everyone who reads this to do the same. Thank you. Go Tibet.

James, San Diego, California

Go to the www.anti-cnn.com,it will tell you the truth.

zhou feng, Chong qing, China

I used to respect the Olympics and athletes who took part now I just think of them as stooges for China. The IOC really are beyond the pale. If they wonder who is destroying the Olympics they should look in the mirror. We should now cancell the Olympics in London next time round. It is now a fataly failed brand and stands for little more than repression and propoganda. The idea that atheletes must close their eyes to what is happening is nothing more than a farce and an embarrisment to the world. I will say that I condem the IOC - they now have blood on their hands because failing to condem and prevent a war crime is in itself a crime and Tibet is an occupied country and what is going on there is a crime and the IOC closing its eyes to it and pretending it is happening is more or less condoning it!

Mark Jones, Cardiff, Wales

Let's see, let's do some math on this.

First, each athelete will devote large chuncks of their personal time to training - which amounts to a huge sacrifice.

Then, their individual rights to voice their oppintion is removed.

Then, their focus intended to be on the good of mankind, peaceful collboration in an international events, or so we have been made to believe about the Olympics - while they're silenced from speaking or expressing an opinion about the opposite of good.

This adds up to something the world will not tolerate: IOC (with their 'say what you want but you'll be sancioned' twisted rule) is acting just like the typical communist propaganda mill and communist opinion suppressionists. Since when did the IOC become communist. Can't we all hear the Chinese mirroring the IOC, "Voice an opinion and you will be jailed."

If we follow the intended spirit of the Olympics, it must not be allowed to be hosted in countries who supppress opinion.

Ben Thorn, LA, USA, CA

The Olympics has become a laughing stock of world conscience.

Britain should withdraw from staging the 2012 games NOW. If the IOC wants to hold the games then the IOC should raise and spend the cash - not taxpayers from countries that bid. In fact, come to think of it, why does anyone bother bidding at all? The whole bid process is well known to be a one of 'who can afford to bribe the IOC members with the most cash.’

What a farce!

Edwin, Bucharest,

Nip This In The Bud

Giving up one simple human right is the thin end of the wedge. Better for the Chinese Authorities to know that their madness will not be tolerated by civilized society.

Once the athletes are in the village they will be in no position to call the shots. They will be very vulnerable. They will be the unwitting victims of any sort of blackmail that the Chinese see fit to impose.

The IOC are trying to re-negotiate terms that were perhaps suitably vague to begin with. However, the right of open press and travel in Tibet must be non-negotiable.

Negotiating with a state involved in this kind of cultural annihilation and terror is a deal with the devil - you just can't win.

There is no shame in telling Beijing to allow free press in Tibet or the Games are off. Perhaps this will have the effect of bringing some of the purity of the lofty ideals of the Olympics back.

joe, Berwichshire, Scotland

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