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Massachusetts converting to all electronic tolls next year (imgur.com)

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[–]lubechowWinchester 31ポイント32ポイント  (18子コメント)

Can we get some damn fast lanes now? Why am I slowing down to pay an electric toll?

[–]Tiver 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Last time I read up on this project, that is the ultimate goal. Complete removal of the booths and instead just a straight through drive for all traffic.

[–]Yeti_PoetWoburn 4ポイント5ポイント  (16子コメント)

Safety.

[–]daeedorian 6ポイント7ポイント  (11子コメント)

How are normal-speed toll arches unsafe?

[–]Yeti_PoetWoburn 9ポイント10ポイント  (10子コメント)

They aren't in and of themselves, but just upping the speed limit on the EZ-Pass arches we have would be quite unsafe. So the answer to his question is safety. We slow down because our toll plazas are engineered for slowed electronic toll traffic (exit funnels are short), not full-speed traffic.

[–]lubechowWinchester 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Agreed, we shouldn't be speeding through those, but I guess it's too much to ask to get some legit fast lanes.

[–]Yeti_PoetWoburn 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

No, I think it'd be great, but construction projects on the already gross toll plazas? It's so nice when driving up to NH or VT and going through the full-speed tollbooths, but it'd be a big project to convert the Pike to use them.

[–]jgun83 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

By big project you mean bulldoze the current setup and place tolling systems above the road?

[–]Yeti_PoetWoburn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Im sure that will be the solution as part of the shift to all-digital. I was addressing the current state of the tolls, since the guy i replied to was talking about now. The tolls aren't engineered for both high-speed electronic and low-speed ticket tolls, and it would take more than bulldozing the arches to accommodate both types of traffic.

[–]aoethrowaway 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've done up to about 30-35mph and it still reads it fine and nobody dies.

[–]Yeti_PoetWoburn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You and all of us, double that speed is a bit different.

[–]blizzardalert 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's got very little to do with the machines. The problem is toll takers who leave their booths at the beginning/end of the shifts, or who use the bathroom, etc.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/07/31/man-struck-killed-at-mass-pike-toll-booth/

[–]daeedorian 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Of course--it seems like a given that it would require that the existing toll facilities be completely redesigned and replaced. No one is suggesting going through the existing toll booths at 70MPH. That would be a complete disaster.

[–]Yeti_PoetWoburn 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I felt "Why am I slowing down" was a turn of phrase that suggested it was a pretty easy change to make.

[–]daeedorian 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gotcha--yeah, the real reason is just that re-fitting all the ancient toll plazas into full-speed arches would involve $$$.

[–]Doza13Outside Boston -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

You got studies to back up this claim?

[–]Yeti_PoetWoburn 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

You think we could all blow through the Weston tolls at 65 and rejoin traffic as-is? They would have to restructure the important toll plazas for full-speed EZ-Pass.

[–]Doza13Outside Boston -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

The Weston tolls already have a two lane section, they just need to reconfigure the merge. No one said it's would be an automatic change, but other states do it with without a problem. The safety argument only really works if you don't actually do the legwork and reconfigure the interchange to support it.

[–]Yeti_PoetWoburn 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's really easy to say "just need to reconfigure the merge" as if it's a matter of painting new stripes and change the speed limit signs, but cars going 65 use up a lot more road than people seem to think. It wouldn't be a simple change, and "why am I slowing down" is pretty suggestive that there is no reason not to speed up. You need much longer lanes for every full-speed arch than we currently have.

[–]jack-o-licious 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

Since we won't need tollbooths anymore, it would be helpful if they could un-tangle the exits. It should not be a 2-mile detour to get from i90 west to i495 north.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.2694723,-71.5582796/42.2726495,-71.5651047/@42.2701335,-71.5618827,15z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0

Interchanges on the turnpike are convoluted just so they could keep all the toll booths together.

[–]PeptoBismark 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd guess they were avoiding additional bridges over that waterway.

[–]juicejug 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's because it's more efficient to have one toll-booth that serves both eastbound and westbound exits off of the pike. As a result, 90W -> 495N ends up with the longest transition time.

OP is right that it would be much easier to have an electronic toll on the off-ramp of 90W to get directly to 495N, but they already have the toll infrastructure in place and it is so much cheaper to retrofit the existing tolls than to build a new one from scratch.

[–]aoethrowaway 13ポイント14ポイント  (77子コメント)

sucks for the toll booth operators, but this is great for the state. I always had a hard time wrapping my head around some MA toll booth workers making $120k+...that just doesn't make sense.

[–]cpxhCrazy Town 14ポイント15ポイント  (76子コメント)

120K is an extreme example.

But still even the base minimum of $23k plus full health insurance and pension is ridiculous.

We literally pay people on average $50k a year plus benefits to stand in a box for 40 hours a week and hand out tickets.

edit because people are mistaking what I mean:

The issue is not "people should make a living wage". The issue is we are paying people to hand out tickets. Literally that is their job. That is not a job the state should be providing. "Handing out tickets" is not a job description. Its not something we should be paying anyone any amount of money to do. We've literally already designed and implemented simple machines to replace these jobs. So why do we still pay people to hand out friggin tickets? Someone please explain to me why this is a job at all.

[–]uberphaserCambridge 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

That is not a job the state should be providing in 2015.

FTFY

[–]cpxhCrazy Town 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Touche. You are correct.

[–]grelphy 3ポイント4ポイント  (38子コメント)

Why is that ridiculous?

[–]cpxhCrazy Town 6ポイント7ポイント  (18子コメント)

I can design a device that does this for a one time cost of $5k.

In fact we have those damn devices already designed and implemented in many locations.

So why are we paying hundreds of thousands of dollars just to have tickets distributed?

[–]uberphaserCambridge 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because when the tollbooths were built, tickets were the existing technology. This is a state job, where budgets are a constant solution, and it's cheaper in the short term to keep a state worker in place, rather than try to find another (guaranteed) position elsewhere, and plan construction projects to install the new lanes.

It's not rocket surgery, it's just the Commonwealth inertia.

[–]westernrepublic 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

are you retarded?

[–]twerkitout 0ポイント1ポイント  (17子コメント)

I'm not sure on that either. Crappy tasks like taking tolls need to be paid considerable wages or nobody would work there. It's part of the reason the T needs to pay bus drivers so much or why garbage men get paid a lot - the job sucks and if it didn't pay so well they wouldn't stick around and high turnover will cost you more in training time.

Like, yeah we could replace them all electronically and we clearly are in the process of doing so but to say it's ridiculous that these people get paid a respectable wage for doing tasks that other people don't want to do is pretty shitty.

[–]cpxhCrazy Town 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

Crappy tasks like taking tolls need to be paid considerable wages or nobody would work there.

No one has to work there. This job could be 100% automated.

So no we don't need to pay people considerable wages to do this job. We don't need people to do this job at all.

[–]twerkitout 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think that all depends on execution. If you have a system that removes all human interaction, like we're doing, that will work in time.

But if you've ever been stuck trying to get out of a parking garage where things are "automated' but still require a human to interact then you know that people are fucking stupid and can't figure out how to deal with a machine that only has 1 button.

Do you remember the traffic jams after the Tobin went electronic? People had no idea what to do even though they had to do exactly nothing. Can you imagine how much worse that would be if you had to make them think?

To argue about how it should have been from the beginning is futile, it's better to focus on moving forward.

[–]blahtherr2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And how is phasing out people to give out tickets not moving forward then? It should have been done ages ago.

[–]HRPSomerville -2ポイント-1ポイント  (9子コメント)

This issue is going to spider out to all job markets sooner than later. It's going to cause chaos. Technology that should be making lives easier is just going to leave a whole hell of a lot of people jobless and poor.

[–]skintighSomerville 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

The year 1800 called, it wants its scare story back. The same thing was said about spinning machines, weaving machines, and letter sorters a century later.

Paying someone to dispense tickets makes about as much sense as paying somebody to hide inside a vending machine and dispense candy bars. Preserving menial, unrewarding jobs sounds more like an act of evil than a humanitarian act. I think most people want to make a difference in the world, not be a mindless automaton. And if, sometime far off in the future, we ever get to the point where our lives are so easy there aren't enough jobs left then maybe that's a good time to reevaluate our economy and the assumption everybody should work for a wage.

[–]HRPSomerville -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

And if, sometime far off in the future, we ever get to the point where our lives are so easy there aren't enough jobs left then maybe that's a good time to reevaluate our economy and the assumption everybody should work for a wage.

My point is that this is going to come sooner than most people think. It's going to be bad. Americans are too work obsessed and too stuck in the mentality that you deserve nothing unless you've put in at least 8 hours a day at your job.

[–]blahtherr2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not coming anytime soon. People have been saying this for ages and time and time again they are proven wrong.

[–]cpxhCrazy Town 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yes.

This has been going on for the better part of the last century.

The assembly line made specialized manufacturing obsolete.

Automated elevators made elevator operators obsolete.

EZ-Pass made toll collectors obsolete.

Kiva robots are making pickers obsolete.

Soon the ordering machines will make fast food workers obsolete.

etc.

[–]mikeisagift -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Right, and it'll keep happening. The only question is if its going to just make it so large corporations don't have to hire many workers and get all the profits, or if we realize that expecting everyone to work 40 hours a week to be able to live a decent life is ridiculous and outdated, and change accordingly.

[–]cpxhCrazy Town 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Sort of.

The idea is that we move up in the world. Instead of having people collect toll tickets, we now have people designing, building and implementing machines to collect tolls.

In theory there should always be jobs.

Its like when the computer was invented. It got rid of a lot of jobs, but it created a lot of jobs too.

All in theory though, sometimes in real life it doesn't work that well.

Still its my opinion of economics and politics that the government shouldn't create irrelevant jobs just to have jobs for people to work.

There is enough work to be done that if we want the government to create jobs, lets do something useful with them, like the hoover dam or the cape cod canal. ok not my best examples, but I am sure there are others out there with better examples.

[–]mikeisagift -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Technology on a whole decreases jobs though. It doesn't use as many workers to design/maintain/etc machinery as it does the workers it replaces. Not to mention we have an ever-increasing population, its unrealistic to expect everyone to work a 40 hour work week in order to live. Shorter hour weeks should become more normal, while still paying enough for people to be able to live. I do agree with using people smarter, upgrading infrastructure and things of that sort, until eventually that gets phased out too. It's just that just because we don't need as many jobs, doesn't mean we arent going to have plenty of resources to help as many people live a decent life as possible.

[–]itsonlyastrongbuzz 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Crappy tasks like taking tolls need to be paid considerable wages or nobody would work there.

Which explains why those kids who have to wrangle shopping carts at Stop & Shop make soo much money.

I feel better when I see them soaked to the bone pushing a snake of carts longer than a Poland Spring truck knowing they're heartily compensated.

[–]blahtherr2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Respectable wage?

Some of these people make serious money. That whole situation isn't right. The money could infinitely be better put to use elsewhere.

[–]uberphaserCambridge -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Folks, these toll booths have been up a long time. Back in the day, there was no possibility of automating - punch tickets were the technology available. And it just hasn't been a huge priority to take state workers and find them new jobs, while at the same time undergoing expensive construction projects to re-vamp the toll lanes.

It's cheaper in the short term (when budgets have to be tied off) to keep the state workers in place and not do construction. It's the way state projects/budgets/jobs work.

[–]Doza13Outside Boston 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

$23k plus full health insurance and pension is ridiculous

23k is barely a living wage in MA.

[–]cpxhCrazy Town 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

The issue is not "people should make a living wage". The issue is we are paying people to hand out tickets. Literally that is their job. That is not a job the state should be providing.

You must have missed this edit.

[–]murkwork -5ポイント-4ポイント  (15子コメント)

It's not ridiculous at all, for the same reason why the salary a garbage man makes isn't ridiculous. It's a job literally nobody else wants to do.

Basic economics (supply+demand) should be all you need to figure out why the salaries are perfectly reasonable. Sure, the job itself isn't complex (sitting in a box for 40 hours and handing people change) but the wage isn't based on complexity, it's based on how many people are willing to sit in a box on the highway.

[–]cpxhCrazy Town 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

It's a job literally nobody else wants to do.

Its not a job anyone has to do. Its not like being a garbage man. Its a job that could and should 100% be replaced by a simple machine.

This argument makes no sense.

On top of that there is a long long waiting list for people to get this job. So no it has nothing to do with supply and demand.

[–]murkwork 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

Its a job that could and should 100% be replaced by a simple machine.

Notice how I didn't say anything about whether or not the job should exist, I think it should definitely be automated. I'm just telling you why the salary isn't ridiculous.

Bullshit there's a waiting list. Maybe a waiting period while the government makes sure you're not a felon or crazy person, but there's no way I'd believe people are waiting hand-over-fist to sit in a box like they would to sit in a Tesla.

[–]cpxhCrazy Town 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

I think it should definitely be automated.

That was my friggin point.

If a job should be automated than any salary paid to a person for that job is ridiculous.

[–]murkwork -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

If a job should be automated than any salary paid to a person for that job is ridiculous.

And you're wrong on that point. The existence of the job may be silly, but the amount paid, because the job does in fact exist, is not silly at all.

Here's an analogy: You walk into a deli and see a sandwich you don't like on the menu for $4.95. You throw a fit at the counter, claiming the sandwich shouldn't be on the menu (because you don't like it) and that it is overpriced because it shouldn't exist.

Just because you think it shouldn't be on the menu, doesn't mean that it's an outrageously priced sandwich. It's a fair price for a sandwich. Whether or not it should be on the menu is a separate issue.

[–]cpxhCrazy Town 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

Your example is not at all relevant to this discussion.

Its not what I think.

The job is irrelevant. That is a fact because it can and has been replaced by automation.

The job is irrelevant, this is not my option that is a fact. So lets ignore this sandwich example. I get what you are trying to say, but going into the example is not going to be useful in this debate at all.

The existence of the job may be silly, but the amount paid, because the job does in fact exist, is not silly at all.

This is where we disagree. If the existence of the job is objectively irrelevant then any amount of money paid to that job is ridiculous. Yes, this is my opinion. Some people don't mind paying for irrelevant things, but in my mind paying for something irrelevant is ridiculous.

[–]murkwork -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's the perfect example. You see how the statement "Just because you think it shouldn't be on the menu, doesn't mean that it's an outrageously priced sandwich" illustrates a logical gap, right?

You wrote that same logical gap, albeit harder to spot, by saying that because the job shouldn't exist, any salary paid is ridiculous.

They both boil down to the same exact statement.

[–]cpxhCrazy Town -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

No. The biggest difference is in your sandwich example it is my opinion that the sandwich is irrelevant.

In the tollbooth example it is objective fact that the job is irrelevant.

So as I said above

If the existence of the job is objectively irrelevant then any amount of money paid to that job is ridiculous. Yes, this is my opinion. Some people don't mind paying for irrelevant things, but in my mind paying for something irrelevant is ridiculous.

If you'd like to argue with my opinion that paying for objectively irrelevant things is ridiculous, please go right ahead with that. But your sandwich example is not relevant to that argument, unless you would concede that its an objective fact that the sandwich is irrelevant.

[–]MistaPittsAllston/Brighton 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nah, tollbooth worker salaries are determined by corrupt politicians handing out free rides to their friends and relatives.

[–]murkwork -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Riiiight, because the toll booth workers I see definitely look like the kind of people connected to powerful politicians. /s

[–]thepasttenseofdrawJamaica Plain 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course they are! How do you think they got such amazing and stimulating jobs that pay so much while clearly being so lazy the only work they can do is hand out tickets?

[–]thepasttenseofdrawJamaica Plain -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

The issue is not "people should make a living wage". The issue is we are paying people to hand out tickets. Literally that is their job.

And so we should totally fire them and replace them with machines because you think it's worthless? I doubt it was worthless to them to put a roof over their head or food on the table... Or they must be real pieces of shit to have gotten that job in the first place right? Only the lazy would every need a full-time job that sucked so much. They're totally better off unemployed than paid a fair wage for what is unarguably a shitty job.

And to your argument that we have machines that can do it for cheaper, well what do we do with the toll booth operators? Oh nothing, that makes perfect sense, lets just let them starve since cpxh doesn't think they're worthy of pay or employment. Fuck em, we've got robots.

[–]skintighSomerville 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

That is a lot of emotional and personal attacks just to knock over a straw man.

I don't think it's the government's job is to employ people in pointless, meaningless, needless, mindless automaton jobs (and frankly, intentionally preserving jobs like that sounds like pure evil to me). But if you are truly worried that the toll workers will all starve, and you truly think it's the gov't's job to employ them all, how about we buy the robots and pay those humans, but pay them to do something more meaningful and that maybe even uses their brain and other skills? Or we could use a tiny, tiny, fraction of that money to train/educate them for more rewarding, higher paying fields?

Wouldn't that be a smarter solution than mindlessly repeating the past forever because jobs?

[–]thepasttenseofdrawJamaica Plain -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think it's the government's job is to employ people in pointless, meaningless, needless, mindless automaton jobs (and frankly, intentionally preserving jobs like that sounds like pure evil to me).

So providing good paying jobs that aren't exciting for those in our society who may not have access to other well paying employment is evil?

But if you are truly worried that the toll workers will all starve, and you truly think it's the gov't's job to employ them all, how about we buy the robots and pay those humans, but pay them to do something more meaningful and that maybe even uses their brain and other skills?

Of course we should find something better for them to do while paying them reasonably. But that's not the nature of the US at the moment is it? Are they going to starve? Maybe not, but life might be significantly worse for them. What if they have to go from a full-time well paying job that's boring to working 2 or more part time jobs that pay minimum wage?

Wouldn't that be a smarter solution than mindlessly repeating the past forever because jobs?

No one is suggesting this, but you can't just automate away jobs and assume that all of those things will happen. What actually happens is automation reduces the number of jobs for the unskilled without replacing them with viable employment alternatives. Finally, despite our desires, there will always be unskilled members of society who need jobs.

[–]polaristerlik 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

So, what if someone's passing through MA and don't have an EZPass, than what?

[–]starh4wk 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

A bill will be sent by mail to the person and address registered to the license plate on the car. There are cameras mounted at the tolls for this purpose. (This is the same thing that happens today if you drive through an E-Z Pass lane without a transponder)

[–]my_head_in_the_cloud 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

And do you know what would happen to someone from out of the US, renting a car ?

[–]admiralwafflesBrookline 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

The state bills the rental agency and then the agency charges the customer. Happened to me (a lot) without issue in Texas and Ireland. Each time there was no egregious charge--just what I owed in tolls.

[–]my_head_in_the_cloud 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thanks for the info !

[–]admiralwafflesBrookline 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sometimes they'll offer you a transponder for some $1/day or whatever...if you'll save that in tolls by using it, then get it. Otherwise, they just bill you what you owed that the state billed them (at least, as has been my experience with Enterprise, Alamo, Budget, and Dooley's).

[–]starh4wk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You may want to check with the rental company to see if they have any type of toll coverage which can be added to your rental.

[–]juicejug 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

They take a picture of your license plate and mail you a bill, probably for the max amount if you're on the pike. If you're in a rental car then they bill the rental company - who then charges you the toll amount PLUS a "service charge."

TL;DR if you ever need to drive through the northeast just get an EZPass and save yourself time, money, and headaches.

[–]jadzado 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

This message is for me.

[–]Wolfie305Outside Boston 3ポイント4ポイント  (25子コメント)

Okay I have a (probably dumb) question about the EZ pass - is there a monthly fee for having it? I could have sworn people actually paid more to have it for the convenience so I was never interested since I don't pay tolls every day.

I do, however, go to New Hampshire quite often and now I'm considering it. Does it cost more to have?

[–]Yeti_PoetWoburn 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think there may have been a fee to sign up early on in its existence. I remember people signing up for the NY EZ-Pass for their MA cars because NY didn't charge a fee to join. That was a long time though, so my memory might be fuzzy.

[–]juicejug 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's because in MA it was called Fast Lane and was a different system. Eventually the Fast Lane system started cooperating with the EZ Pass system so your transponder would work in both, then the name changed so it was all called EZ Pass. Old Fast Lane transponders still work I believe, so I think EZ Pass just absorbed the whole Fast Lane system.

In my experience EZ Pass works all the way out to Chicago and down to Georgia. Florida, Texas, and Kansas all have their own, separate systems.

[–]lnTranceWeTrustAllston/Brighton 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The transponders are free https://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/TrafficTravelResources/EZPassMAProgram/FeeSchedule.aspx

And at least on the Brighton/Allston exit, it costs $1 when using the EZ Pass versus the $1.25 people who pay cash must pay.

[–]bigtuna1515Allston/Brighton 1ポイント2ポイント  (14子コメント)

You pay to get it and have a cc on file with them. So once the initial amount you payed is used, it "recharges" your ez-pass from your cc.

[–]NorthernSparrow 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's free now. (no initial fee)

[–]Wolfie305Outside Boston 1ポイント2ポイント  (12子コメント)

I'm looking online and it says the minimum is $20. Once you deplete that down to $10, it automatically charges your CC. So do you never get to use that additional $10 really?

[–]Yeti_PoetWoburn 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

When you close your account, they refund your card for the remaining balance.

[–]Wolfie305Outside Boston 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Oh, awesome!

[–]drizzlAllston/Brighton 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also, last time I checked, the actual tolls you pay is less using EZ-pass as opposed to taking a ticket from the operator.

[–]tacknosaddle 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can also change the amounts depending on your use. We go to NJ a few times a year so I keep a higher amount in there as the ride back adds up to more than $20 between the turnpikes and the bridge.

[–]Tiver 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They also automatically adjust it based upon your activity. When I used the tolls a lot one month from driving to Logan several times, they bumped it up to $35, then a few months later they let it drop back down.

[–]MedicPigBabySaverOutside Boston 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Technically, you'd be covered if you use enough tolls to drop you below $10. It isn't refreshed immediately.

[–]Wolfie305Outside Boston 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That makes sense :)

[–]bigtuna1515Allston/Brighton -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Essentially. I'm guessing that $10 is actually paying for the physical pass. But yes, once it goes down to $10 it recharges so you'll never not have enough money for tolls, unless your cc is expired.

[–]Wolfie305Outside Boston 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Okay, that's not so bad then! Definitely worth it since I never have cash and just depleted my final quarters in my car haha. Thank you for answering my questions :)

[–]bigtuna1515Allston/Brighton 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Definitely worth it. Even if you don't use the toll that often. Plus it works pretty much everywhere there are tolls on the east coast (except Florida!) so you won't have to worry about cash on the road if you are headed somewhere.

[–]dsolomo 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It also is cheaper for certain tolls.

[–]bigtuna1515Allston/Brighton 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

yeah, another benefit. I know the Brighton toll is $1 compared to $1.25 cash

[–]spedmunki02138 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's free

[–]mgzukowski 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Transponder is free, as for refills you can choose to have it manual or automatic. If it's automatic it loads $20 at a time, if you choose manual you have to reload it manually online or by phone.

If you have manual refill you will get a low balance light when you are close to going over. If you go over it is $50 fine.

If there is a problem with you ez pass you will get a call ez-pass light. If you continue to use the ez pass after getting that light its a $50 fine.

But honestly its great, you get a discount on tolls for using it. It tracks your tolls for your taxes, which if you keep your gas receipts you can get extra money back for being double taxed.

If you don't get the ez-pass they will take your picture and mail you the toll like the Tobin bridge. But it will be more expensive.

[–]tacknosaddle 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In addition to the manual additions you can change the automatic amounts too. We go to NJ a few times a year and the tolls on the way back are more than $20 so I have it set to bring it to $40 if it goes below $20.

[–]Tiver 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you have an EZ-pass and it doesn't pick up the transponder, it will still bill your ez-pass account via the license plate picture for the same charge as with a transponder. This has been great when on the motorcycle as it frequently doesn't pick up the transponder for me, but does pick up the plate.

[–]dsolomo 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I just moved here a few months ago and got an ez pass. No fee or anything, its actually very easy to set up. You do have to pay if you want a second transponder. You can also opt out of the automatic transfers to refill the ezpass if you prefer to do it manually

[–]Tiver 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You don't need to pay for a second transponder, you get up to 4 free transponders for 1 account, and you can add a lot of license plates to the account and use the transponders among all those vehicles. My mom didn't get one for ages so I just added her plate and then used my transponder in her car a few times. I got an extra transponder a few years ago for my motorcycle and it was free, just filled out a form online and they mailed me one.

[–]spedmunki02138 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Probably not going to hit the right target demo posting this online. Should really be positing it in local newspapers and bingo halls.

[–]PeptoBismark 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I use the MassPike five or six times a year, and haven't bothered to get an EZ Pass for the car I bought two years ago. I appreciate the warning.

[–]ScipioA 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

The one-way tolls on the harbor tunnels and the bridge are distorting traffic in the region - there’s 50% more daily traffic in the free northbound direction on the Tobin than in the tolled southbound direction. Traffic on free roads somewhere else (probably Chelsea, Everett, and Charlestown) has to be suffering from this.

Ideally electronic tolling means that they could cut the toll in half and then charge it in both directions since the cost of collections is so much lower.

[–]tacknosaddle 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Do you have a source on that stat? It just seems high to me, I'm sure some people go out of their way to save a few bucks but that many seems a bit out of whack.

You are correct that it would be easy/better to go back to tolls in both directions with (full speed) electronic toll systems. When they switched to single direction tolls it was because if the Tobin backed up at the toll booths it quickly affected the central artery traffic and so a lot of downtown could be gridlocked and it wasn't as bad if things backed up to the outside of the city.

[–]ScipioA 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

See page "2-4" here: https://www.massdot.state.ma.us/portals/0/docs/InfoCenter/financials/RefinanceTR_Study_042710.pdf , there are 28,600 tolled westbound and 42,900 free eastbound vehicles per day.

Usually the place to go for traffic stats is http://mhd.ms2soft.com/tcds/tsearch.asp?loc=Mhd which is surprisingly easy to use. Unfortunately it didn't have two-way counts for the Tobin so I googled around until I found the study above.

[–]tacknosaddle 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Interesting, thanks. I would've thought the Ted Williams would be closer to 50/50 since there's not really and alt route to get to the south of Boston avoiding the toll but it's consistently a bit higher westbound paying the toll.

[–]ThirdProject 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

So if I don't get this, do they just mail me a bill for the fee? Is there a fee on top of that?

[–]ForeTheTime 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They just bill the plate. Have been doing on the Tobin for a while now.

[–]reaper527Woburn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

you just pay 50 cents more for the toll, and they mail you a bill in a bright orange envelope at the end of the month (and you can pay it online). it's pretty awesome. i think the bill i got was $3, where it would have been $2.50 with an easy pass.

i got one on the tobin back in august. the system works great.

[–]gnimshBlue Line 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

How can I get an EZ pass that I use just for car rentals? The companies now provide them but it costs an arm and a leg with fees of their own on top of the tolls.

[–]funkymunniez 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

It took 3 seconds to Google

[–]gnimshBlue Line 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've googled this before and I find this answer incomplete.

I want to know how to purchase the device without having a car, but I have tried to register before and they require you to list your car registration info.

[–]funkymunniez -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

So if you have a question with a service you should probably call customer service.

[–]MedicPigBabySaverOutside Boston -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Should have linked this: LMGTFY

[–]PeptoBismark -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It took another couple of seconds to find out that the TSA hasn't been causing problems if you take an EZ Pass in your luggage.

[–]shartscaping 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

I had the same issue (these downvotes are BS btw)... The trick is to fill out the online application, and just make up stuff when it asks for the car information (e.g. License number: "Fake123", Car Make: Enterprise, Car Model: Rental, etc.). I just got this to work, but it took a few times to get a license number that wasn't already used.

The annoying part is that you're going to need to go online after you rent the car (so you can get the plate info) but before you need to use the tollbooth.

[–]fungwahCambridge 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've been using the same EZPass from my old car on any rental I've ever driven without changing any info and never had a problem. My parents have one they move around from car to car and have never had an issue. I think they only care if you don't have enough money on the EZPass and your card fails so they know who to bill in that case, honestly.

[–]shartscaping -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good to know... I suspect in that in the case where there was an issue, the bill would go to the rental company via the tag, and then they'll surcharge that and pass it to you. I had this happen on the Tobin Bridge, and Enterprise added $15 or something like that and added it to my bill.

edit: clarity

[–]aoethrowaway 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

the plate doesn't need to match the EZ Pass. I bring mine with me when I'm traveling and the car it's currently registered to hasn't been mine for over 5 years. I just brought it into my new car and haven't had any issues.

[–]gnimshBlue Line -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great username lol

Anyway I did more googling and found that NY allows you to do this by calling:

https://www.e-zpassny.com/en/faq/account.shtml

So I'll do that.

[–]Robobvious 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Oh great, so now the government can have a record of where we're going. Tollbooths don't even makes sense imo, can't this shit just be included in our taxes?

[–]jtet93Brookline 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm happy they're not. I don't know how to drive and I rarely use the highways. I would prefer not to pay extra because people don't want to have tolls

[–]BlackCowWaltham 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just because you don't have a car doesn't mean you don't benefit from having a highway system. Not everything you buy is locally sourced.

[–]Robobvious -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Neither do I but I'm still not okay with the invasion of privacy that comes with putting RFID chips in everyone's vehicles, and would gladly pay to keep them the fuck out. Even if you don't personally use the highways, you rely on them for most of the products you purchase in stores, it makes sense for everyone to pay to maintain them.

[–]jtet93Brookline 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree I definitely use the highways indirectly, but I'm happy that some of the revenue which supports the highway system comes exclusively from those who actually use them.

[–]BlackCowWaltham -3ポイント-2ポイント  (20子コメント)

How about we just get rid of tolls. The state can make do with all the other taxes we pay.

[–]nonsfwatw 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

Downplay the tolls, prepare for the trolls...

[–]murkwork 4ポイント5ポイント  (18子コメント)

I'm good with this, as long as all the road repair and upkeep that suffers in quality as a result of getting rid of tolls is contained to the area directly surrounding where you live, work, and commute and not where I live, work, and commute.

[–]BlackCowWaltham -3ポイント-2ポイント  (17子コメント)

If they need more money to maintain the roads they can just charge higher income tax. Why do we need multiple avenues of taxation especially one as cumbersome and annoying as toll booths. My argument isn't about the money it's about the unnecessary hassle.

[–]fmatgnat3 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

Tolls are a way to collect money to pay for upkeep of local roads from the people who actually use them. It doesn't make sense to charge someone halfway across the state for a local service that they would never use (just as local taxes pay for local fire, police, etc.).

[–]skintighSomerville 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It doesn't make sense to charge someone halfway across the state for a local service that they would never use

Except that's exactly how we do it for 99.999999% of roads, both in state and nationally, because infrastructure affects us all and improves everyone's life. You may never drive down a certain piece of road, but many products you buy and maybe even a lot of your house did.

It really is absurd that we have 50+ different ways to tax people, some of them extremely regressive towards the poor. Having one tax would be simpler and more fair (at least by my definition of fair, other people have different definitions).

[–]BlackCowWaltham 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well local roads are funded by local town taxes.

I think the highways are a different story though, everyone uses and benefits from the highway. Even if someone doesn't own a car everyone needs highways in order to get goods delivered to them.

I drive on MA highways every day that don't have tolls and they seem to be in good condition so obviously it's possible to fund highway maintenance without tolls.

Also tolls are fucking annoying.

[–]MistaPittsAllston/Brighton 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even if someone doesn't own a car everyone needs highways in order to get goods delivered to them.

And the cost of transporting those goods via the highway is passed on to the consumer.

[–]murkwork -1ポイント0ポイント  (12子コメント)

Why should Joe in Western mass be subjected to higher income taxes in order to pay for the highway upkeep that you and I use here in Boston and the surrounding area? Tolls are a way of localizing the tax collected from people who use the thing that the toll sits on (in this case highways).

I'm not arguing that tolls aren't annoying as fuck (though, they will be a lot less annoying once everyone in the state is forced to use EZPass in a year). But they are necessary.

[–]BlackCowWaltham 1ポイント2ポイント  (11子コメント)

No one pays tolls for 495 or 95. How is that any different?

[–]juicejug 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Neither of those highways go into Boston.

[–]BlackCowWaltham 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

How does that change anything?

[–]murkwork -3ポイント-2ポイント  (8子コメント)

Are you under the impression only the highway you're driving on when you pay a toll gets that toll money?

That's not how it works...

[–]BlackCowWaltham -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

That's my point! There are other avenues of taxation to fund our highways so why bother with tolls on some of them?

[–]murkwork -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Your point is that because some highways don't have tolls (and are funded from the tolls on other highways) we should get rid of tolls entirely?

How does that many any sense at all?

[–]BlackCowWaltham -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'll say it again,

There are other avenues of taxation to fund our highways so why bother with tolls on some of them?

[–]murkwork -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll say it again,

Tolls are a way of localizing the tax collected

[–]highlander311Fenway/Kenmore -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Because we should be charging those who drive for the privilege of driving? In fact, I think we should RAISE the tolls inbound during the morning and outbound in the afternoon to promote using public transportation and alternative forms of travel. Use the extra income to improve said public transportation.

[–]krakissiWaltham 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

No surprise you live in the city.

Public transportation doesn't fit into everybody's life and increasing tolls won't change that. Every driver is already paying all the time for the use of the roads via the gas tax. The tolls were implemented to recoup the costs of road infrastructure expansion. You might be surprised to learn that the tolls outside of 128 were supposed to be phased out by 2017, as the costs for that section of the pike will have been recovered. Tolls inside 128 are recovering Big Dig costs.

Why should people who need to drive pay directly for infrastructure they aren't using (e.g. MBTA train/bus/etc. expansion)?

[–]highlander311Fenway/Kenmore 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Every driver is already paying all the time for the use of the roads via the gas tax.

You mean the gas tax that's barely been raised in the past 20 something years?

Sure... but even with the gas tax and excise tax, it covers something like 40% of the cost of roads in the state. The rest comes from the general fund.

I'm advocating making public transportation more readily available for those commuting to and from the city. Raising tolls discourages driving and promotes public transportation, a direction we need to be heading in as it is.

No, of course it won't work for the Berkshires.

Why should people who need to drive pay directly for infrastructure they aren't using (e.g. MBTA train/bus/etc. expansion)?

I'm sure I pay more towards roads as a non-driver than a non-T-riding driver pays towards the T.

[–]Mitch_from_BostonG.B.A. -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just hope they give more notice of location of the electronic readers. First time I went under that Tobin Bridge one I almost missed it.

I have an EZ-Pass but don't have it attached to my windshield (mainly because winter driving tends to result in me needing a new windshield every spring), I just take it out of the glovebox and hold it to the glass when I need it.

[–]skintighSomerville -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, encourage your friends to visit this page:

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