172
173

I get paid to do nothing, wondering about my options. (self.legaladvice)

Versuno が 投稿

I work for one of the largest Cannabis production companies in the US/Colorado in their Research and Development department.

I was working for this company's leading competitor at the time I was offered my current job, and was on track to making a decent income and having a fulfilling job, but I've been wanting to get into the R&D side of the industry so I took this position when it was offered 10 months ago.

The position was a nice change of pace and was what I was really looking for in a job... at first. Lately I have been getting literally zero instruction or direction from my boss, and have realized he doesn't really have any expectations for me.

I'm at the point now that I'm getting paid a salary to sit at home and reddit all day long. I'll email/text/call my boss with requests for instruction/direction and won't get a response for a week or more most of the time.

It was a pretty sweet deal for the first couple of months that this went on, but now I'm actually starting to feel unfulfilled and want to start looking for a different job, because there is no way I will be able to earn a raise at this job if they don't expect me to even show up.

My problem is that I signed a 12 month non-compete agreement with them when I first started. I was ok with it at the time because I felt like if I was going to be doing R&D, I was going to be learning something from it too and growing my career potential, but now I realize they basically just snatched me away from their competitor and now are paying me a "retainer salary" to keep my non-compete agreement active, and keep me from leaving to go work for a competitor. I've already had several better job offers since, but have turned them down because I felt like I'd be sued if I left to get a job where I actually do something and had potential to advance.

Do non-compete agreements hold any water if you're not actually doing anything productive for the company, or does the actual work you do not matter?

TL;DR Get payed to do nothing, so that I don't work for a competitor, but signed a non-compete agreement and feel stuck.

全 59 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]AIDS_Pizza 295ポイント296ポイント  (15子コメント)

This is not legal, but practical advice: You are in a position where many people would be happy to be (and I do not mean the people who want to be paid to do nothing). Getting hired into an R&D role with little oversight means you have something most employees do not: freedom.

Take some initiative, do some research, and come up with ideas on how you can improve whatever products your company offers. If you have an interest in the industry, this should be easy. Compile the ideas into a document, present it as a proposal or report to the appropriate person/people. After you send off the first, start working on the next. Proving your value is going to be the best way to get both promotions and raises. Do not squander this opportunity by thinking that because your boss is not giving you instruction it is okay for you to do fuck all every day.

[–]OnanHighFive 78ポイント79ポイント  (13子コメント)

This is the best response, OP. You're going nothing because you can. Instead, think of it as free reign to do the kinds of R&D that should be done. If you come up with something significant, you could become a major player in the industry. You're complaining about a super enviable position.

[–]Versuno[S] 25ポイント26ポイント  (12子コメント)

I've come up with innovations and improvements on my own and they were mostly not implemented due to liability reasons. For example I developed a small automation device that was better and cheaper than one we were thinking about mass purchasing. In the end they went with the third-party produced tech because they feared the liability of having a client experience a loss of production in the event something in our tech went wrong, verses something going wrong with a device created by another company.

So in the end I can conduct my own research and development, but all of the results and inventions are owned by my company and are probably not going to be implemented.

I understand completely that this is a super enviable position, it is just extremely frustrating knowing that my contributions will most likely end up going nowhere and I can't publish any of my findings later.

[–]awesomesauce_factory 58ポイント59ポイント  (9子コメント)

That's true in almost EVERY R&D job. The "success rate" is WAY below 1%. Much of R&D is just trying to find a needle in a haystack, so picking up pieces of hay and saying, "Yep, this isn't a needle" is actually productive (although it may not seem that way). People can spend their entire careers working in R&D without actually sending a product to market. Instead, they find things that aren't viable (which means, "Well, at least we know the competitor won't be doing it, either") or other directions or whatever.

Finally, take this as constructive advice: you seem to have the attitude of an 18 year old. You'd benefit from trying to see the perspective of other people, trying to take initiative on your own, trying to emulate behavior that is "mature", etc.

[–]OnanHighFive 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is exactly what I was going to say. I work at a tech company and the vast majority of ideas go nowhere, either because the ideas themselves turn out not to be viable, or because other considerations make it less practical or advisable (liability being one).

Just the experience of leading an R&D effort is an amazing opportunity. OP should be both figuring out ways his company can lead the competition and figuring out how to do R&D well.

Oh, and he shouldn't necessarily expect direct compensation, though some companies do give cash awards for successful patents. If he's good at it, he should expect to be compensated for his added value.

[–]Versuno[S] 12ポイント13ポイント  (7子コメント)

I understand your criticisms, many people would probably be envious for a job where they have no supervision, no critiques, and almost no contribution, as long as they're getting paid.

Don't get me wrong, I haven't been completely inactive and unproductive. I've been serving on an advisory committee for the state department of agriculture and doing a ton of networking in between working on my own research projects.

The reason I posted this to legal advice was not to get advice for how to deal with absentee managers or how to fill my free time(Edit: Although I really do appreciate all the comments that I've gotten that aren't exactly legal advice). It was specifically to ask about my situation in relation to having signed a non-compete and if anyone had advise about options for dealing with the legal ramifications of leaving a job like this with a non-compete in place.

Could you point out specifically which comment I've made that seems like it would have come from an 18 year old, because I can assure you I'm nowhere close to that age and can't see what about my comments was "immature".

Got hired by the owner to do R&D. I did R&D for 10 months and either had all of my ideas/improvements turned down. The few that were implemented were attributed to my boss (director of R&D), not me. I am not making as much salary as I would like, and have been trying to be more productive in order to possibly earn a raise in the future, but recently my boss has not even been returning texts, calls, or emails for weeks. I'll sometimes have very simple questions that are time sensitive and need a response quickly, but get ignored for days/weeks. This situation makes me unhappy and I want to look for a different job. How does this make me immature?

[–]awesomesauce_factory 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

Sorry, didn't mean to touch a nerve, it just seems like saying, "They don't like my ideas!" is a naive attitude. Most big corporations do virtually no R&D because of the sorts of reasons you mentioned: liability, risk profiles, etc. R&D engineers and scientists at big companies are often just doing due diligence related to acquisitions - what they are acquiring could have been done more cheaply and quickly by those same in-house engineers and scientists, but the risks and liabilities are such that it makes more sense to be acquire. You seem to think there is a green meadow somewhere where R&D types get good direction, logical problems to solve, their solutions are implemented with regularity, etc, and the reality is that world just doesn't exist.

You wanted legal advice, so here: look into the validity of non-competes in your state. I live in a state that doesn't explicitly prohibit them (ie - CA), but has language that makes them essentially unenforceable. If you're in Colorado (I'm guessing that's likely), this situation would apply to you.

[–]Versuno[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Thanks, I didn't mean for it to seem like I was offended.

I am a veteran, so I sometimes have a different outlook/perspective than my peers in the work environment and expect more structure. I completely understand the slow pace and nebulousness of the R&D world, I'm just unhappy with the way my current manager is taking credit for my contributions and completely ignoring me lately. If I had somebody to say "here's what I've been working on all month" to and get a little criticism then I'd be fine with it, but I'm just working on projects that nobody cares about but me, and I'm not getting paid enough to just keep the status quo going (I have a mortgage to pay, not that I think I should be paid more for the work I'm currently doing.)

[–]awesomesauce_factory 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I didn't notice you actually did say "Colorado" right in the OP...

Take a look at this: http://sparkmanfoote.com/everything-you-should-know-about-non-compete-agreements-in-colorado/

Seems like your non-compete is probably unenforceable (although IANAL)

[–]Versuno[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

In the text of the non-compete it specifically refers to CRS §8-2-113 and why they consider knowledge learned from R&D work as trade secrets, which is one of the listed reasons for a valid non-compete agreement in Colorado.

[–]Lampwick 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They can claim trade secret under CRS §8-2-113, but that doesn't make it necessarily valid. As unsatisfying as it may sound, you really need to run the non-compete past an attorney, get an informed opinion based on the actual wording.

[–]nmshhhh 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Dude, I'm a vet as well. How did you get this job?

[–]Versuno[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I used my GI Bill money to get a degree in horticulture, and then moved to Colorado right before they legalized recreational marijuana. Having a degree in horticulture and being a vet got me into interviews, and then I just had to prove myself over the years.

Growing cannabis commercially is part knowledge, part intuition, and part stress management. You're taking care of thousands of living things that are worth millions to the owners, and they can die overnight while you're sleeping because stoner employee Timmy put the wrong chemical in the reservoir. You just have to have the knowledge to predict problems before they happen and have the skills to deal with the stress that comes with knowing that you can't predict everything when dealing with other people and farming.

[–]tahlyn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is better to do/propose something and have it be declined than to do nothing and at the end of the year when asked to show what you've been working on, have nothing to show for it.

[–]mcherm 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So get creative!

For instance: you don't have to USE the automation device... instead patent it, then start licensing it to others for a new revenue stream.

"Get creative" is literally your job title!

Also get better at selling. For instance, come up with 6 decent ideas, then INSTEAD of developing the best one, do a presentation to company executives asking WHICH one to pursue. They may not pick the best one, but whichever one they pick they will be invested in. (Don't try this with only two ideas; that's not enough.)

"Selling" (or, to be more precise, persuading people) is an important part of every white collar job.

[–]ThatIsJustOK 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

most people imo, would not be happy being underutilized and not progressing in their passion

[–]swalsh411Quality Contributor 40ポイント41ポイント  (19子コメント)

Do you have some sort of guarantee of the job you would be doing? Did you receipt a description of the position when you were hired?

[–]Versuno[S] 30ポイント31ポイント  (18子コメント)

I am the only person in my position in the company. They literally created a new position in order to hire me, and they only had some rough ideas for what they wanted from me when I started. Since then though, none of those projects/ideas have come to fruition and I was instead tasked with small administration type things, then nothing at all.

I was hired directly by the owner of the company and don't fall into the normal chain-of-command that all the other employees follow. I used to work for this company in a different capacity a few years ago, and the owner heard through the grapevine that I was working for his competitor, then created this position in order to get me to come work for them again.

It seemed like a good opportunity at first, but quickly it devolved into me not really having any responsibilities and no direction.

The whole reason they had me sign a non-compete was because I was supposed to be conducting research and developing new techniques, but so far I've done none of that.

[–]Covert_Ruffian 85ポイント86ポイント  (8子コメント)

Hmm. Might I suggest that you take some initiative to show your higher-ups something useful? Like ideas? Or anything like that? If you get paid relatively well, this could be a gold mine (for now). You can try to do something about not being bored at work - something productive, if you so wish.

[–]A1cypher 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

Agreed. I was stuck in a similar position once while I was doing an engineering internship. If you have a bunch of free time take some initiative and start working on your own projects or ideas. You said that you had some ideas at the start of your job on things to do, just grab on to one or two of those and see what you can do.

Another idea is to spend the down time working on improving yourself and your career. Look into developing your skills, technical, or soft skills. Learn a programming language. Learn the ins-and-outs of whatever software you use. Read up on project management, leadership, or management skills. Spend time doing networking on LinkedIn or Facebook and getting to know other people and ideas in your industry. Figure out what other companies are working on and how you could do it differently (or better).

If you are paid to improve yourself, then in a year if you still don't have any work to do, you can consider your options again but instead of having a stagnated career, you have improved your job marketability by learning and improving yourself.

Imagine sitting at your next job interview and they will ineveitably ask, "Why did you leave your last company?" If your answer is, "Well, they didnt really have any work for me to do and I just sat on reddit for six months.." they wont be terribly impressed. But if you can say, "I researched opportunities within the industry, developed my personal and technical skills, and spent time networking with other professionals in the community" it turns a big negative into a big positive for them.

[–]teriyaki_donut 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was stuck in a similar position once while I was doing an engineering internship.

No you weren't, because that internship didn't require a 12 month non compete and you probably had relatively little value in the job market at that point.

Taking initiative at work is solid advice, but it's completely obvious. And however much OP improves himself, he still can't work in the industry for a year after he leaves the place without risking being sued.

[–]ccoastmike 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or just start jumping in, getting to know people and how their positions work. Ask them if they have any tough problems that need solving.

[–]Versuno[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I've suggested several ideas, some have been implemented and most haven't. My concern is that when I see the new techniques being implemented, nobody has any idea it was me that originally suggested it, instead they always seem to think it was my boss's (director of R&D) idea. I'm not egocentric so the fact that I'm not getting praise for my contributions doesn't bother me too much, but then again Its hard to use my talents/contributions as leverage when asking for a raise later if the improvements were never attributed to me in the first place.

I'm making better income then many people out there but I am by no means paid well relatively. This is the main reason I haven't really complained about the situation to my employer because I don't want to rock the boat and get them to realize that they're not really utilizing me for much, and there are people that would literally kill to be in my position.

[–]CDfm 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Put these improvements on your LinkedIn profile.

[–]Versuno[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well the non-compete agreement was actually a Non-disclosure/Non-compete agreement so I think disclosing any of my research publicly while I'm still employed by them would violate it.

I'm keeping all of them well-documented though.

[–]Stratisphear 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's likely that that only applies to the specifics. You could say "I created a new device that improved X by Y%", but not give them the blueprints for it. IANAL, but I work in software design with similar agreements and it's fine to tell other potential employers generally what you were working on.

[–]CDfm 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You seem like a clever guy.

I wonder if it's worth asking your boss and the sales team if the unit you can produce for $ 50 gives a competitive/pricing advantage.

I once worked at a firm who sold components and our customers would often buy the cheap alternatives with spares as the cost savings made it worthwhile.

Maybe your idea is being useful but needs more work or needs to be presented differently.

It might be an idea for you to look closely at your company's competition and their pricing and offers. Can you ask anyone in the organisation for this material or can you get feedback from the sales team where sales have been lost because of price ?

[–]A_Soporific 16ポイント17ポイント  (6子コメント)

So, you're in a loophole position. It's time for you to do the R&D that you've always wanted to do. Talk to people about what problems they have with their product. Listen for complaints. Make a list of things that could be improved. Then, do the research to make those improvements happen. When you hit on something that makes a measurable difference for a limited expenditure then it's time to go to the owner and say, basically, "look at this neat thing I made".

The whole point of R&D is to try new things. It's not unreasonable that people who aren't experienced in managing the field would have trouble figuring out exactly what it is you're supposed to be doing.

[–]Versuno[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

The main reason I haven't been just doing my own projects is that I started to do that initially when they started not really giving me any direction, and it turned out to be rather pointless.

I built a piece of automation technology that was an improvement on a device that I was testing for them in order to see whether or not we should invest in buying them for all of the cultivation warehouses. The device costs $400, but I could build them for $50, and they planned on buying hundreds of them, so it would have saved them some money and they would have had a more tailored product. They turned down the idea because of the liability of developing/providing automation equipment to our clients was too much for them. They are afraid that if anything goes wrong with a piece of equipment that we develop, it will be worse than if a piece of technology purchased from a third party for our client breaks and causes an issue.

So I can conduct my own research and development, but the odds of it being implemented are slim and in the end they still own the rights to anything I develop for them.

[–]A_Soporific 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Have you built it all the way out? Really demonstrated an tested the thing? After all, I think that it might just be a case there where it's unclear that there's a big advantage to be gained and a relatively low risk.

In that case, you might want to see if the owner will go for letting you buy out your inventions and developments from the company should the company ultimately pass on them. Let's face it, at this point you're not really earning a paycheck. You're going to need to have a frank conversation with the owner no matter how you cut it. The status quo is bad for both you and the company, if you had a bit of wiggle room you on the ownership of innovation you might be able to do a lot of good work. Otherwise, it'd be best if you quit and went elsewhere.

[–]Versuno[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes I built several working prototypes at the time, and ran a side by side comparison with the device they were planning on purchasing. I was able to prove that after 2 months of continuous use, my device was more reliable, durable, and accurate (the guy who designed the original device had never worked in a commercial grow warehouse so everything he made was way too fragile). For some reason the liability was still too much.

I've been networking with other companies in the industry lately and have gotten several offers, but I've just been hung up on the fact I signed a non-compete that is for any state they operate in (almost every legal medical marijuana state), and not wanting to cause issues for my potential new employer.

The company I was working for before this company didn't have a non-compete agreement, but they still made waves and tried to make things hard on my current company for hiring me. The company I work for now is large enough and controls a significant portion of the wholesale market that if they wanted to they could make life a living hell for any other company I went to work for.

I don't have the hubris to think I'm the best grower in the world, but apparently I'm better than most and companies are willing to fight over me. I just want a nice paying position that is enjoyable, but then again everyone does and few people find it.

[–]A_Soporific 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well, I would recommend asking for a sit down with the owner.

In it explain your concerns, that you don't know what the company's direction is and that if the company isn't able to handle the risks then maybe having an R&D budget is a mistake and the money spent on you would be better spent on something else that the company needs more.

These contracts are subject to negotiation. If both you an the owner agree that it doesn't apply then it doesn't apply. Once the attempt to negotiate for a solution that everyone can be happy with has failed. THEN hire a local lawyer to thoroughly review the enforceability of those agreements.

If the contract is solid then it might be a good idea to just work in an unrelated field for a year.

[–]Sethala 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Would it be a good idea to negotiate the contract into them paying OP's salary for the time frame that the noncompete is valid? That way OP could leave the company, not have to worry about where rent is going to come from, and spend the year networking and looking for employment for when the noncompete is finished.

[–]A_Soporific 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't imagine that being a good deal for the company, but if OP can't make ends meet while under a non-compete with a standing job offer then a judge would often throw out the non-compete.

A non-compete that reduces the make a worker unable to work is an unenforceable one.

[–]Your_Future_Attorney 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is your name Big Head?

[–]GodlySphinx 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was working for this company's leading competitor at the time I was offered my current job, and was on track to making a decent income and having a fulfilling job,

Oh dear!

They literally created a new position in order to hire me, and they only had some rough ideas for what they wanted from me when I started.

They hired you only to take you away from their leading competitor. They don't care about you or your talents.

[–]Emerett 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Take this time to write a ebook on how to get a R&D job where you can sit and do nothing, then use a blog to promote it.

Enjoy being a millionaire.

[–]starhussy 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Either self start of work on self improvement. Maybe you could learn a foreign language so you could stay competitive for when the U.S. opens the market

[–]Versuno[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've been coming up with a novel in my head over the last few years, but just haven't had the time to sit down and write it out. I'm about 25% done now, which feels great.

[–]InceptDate20160725 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not sure about CO, but in many parts of Canada judges take a very dim view of employers who try to enforce non-competes unless the employee is a fiduciary or someone at the VP level or higher. Even then, if this is the only way you know how to earn a living at the income level you're at, there is often a good case to chuck the non-compete out the door.

In other words: it might be worth 30 minutes with an employment lawyer in Colorado.

[–]andlessthan000 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sure, you see a downside. But I see plenty of options.

  1. Take the initiative to research & develop anything & everything you want to do. Heck, start requesting funds to buy equipment and supplies to support your research. Write academic articles and get them in journals. Use this perch to become a Big Swinging Dick in your area of expertise.

  2. Alternately, since you have so much free time, develop your skills in some other area that isn't covered by your noncompete.

  3. Save up 12 months of living expenses. Then you can quit whenever you feel like it.

  4. Or just quit now, move out of state, and do what you please. Suing across state lines is expensive. Consult an attorney before you do anything actionable.

[–]sweetrobna 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

How set are you at staying in CO?

[–]Versuno[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm really hoping that federal legalization happens sooner than later. I've been working in the Colorado cannabis industry for 4 years and have a degree in Horticulture, so I plan on staying in the Cannabis industry.

I'm married though and my wife would probably take a significant pay cut if we moved anywhere else. Since she makes more than I do at the moment, only a job in another state that is cannabis industry related and pays much better than my current job, would make me want to move.

[–]TheGrest 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Worst case start moonlighting somewhere that isn't covered by your non-compete. You'd be making good money at least.

[–]BlatantConservative 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you Moonshine?

Not legal advice but why not volunteer at a shelter or something that is needed but does not usually pay well? This is actually a good way for you to do some real good in the world without breaking the bank.

[–]lucillebluth1213 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This would be a great opportunity to back to school at night to further your education. If you have nothing to do at work during the day, you can do homework. I have a pretty easy, boring, and slow job, and I go to law school at night. I have a leg up on a lot of my classmates, because I have about 30 hours during the week when they're working that I'm reading or working on writing assignments, and they have more demanding jobs.

[–]TotesMessenger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

[–]spyhermit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Speak with a lawyer versed in Colorado law. It's likely that your contract is unenforceable, especially given that doing nothing isn't the kind of work you would normally be well compensated or contracted for. I recommend, as well, in the future, if your contract prevents you from working for a year between jobs, you write in that they will have to pay you for that year. If your work is that valuable, they should agree to it, or at the very least, make it worth your while. In general, however, judges have recently taken a dim view of contracts that require you to not earn a living after you leave a company.

[–]BobSacramanto 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here is another idea OP. Maybe find another job (outside of the cannabis field) and keep your first job. Then you will be making twice the money you are now.

[–]DrDerpberg -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Question for the lawyers... At what point is this constructive dismissal? My understanding is that you can't simply tell someone to sit in a corner and stare at the wall all day, and this is awfully close to that.

[–]Hyndis 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't see any problem as long as he's getting paid.

Security guards are paid to sit and stare at a wall all day long. Its not the most engaging job, but its a steady paycheck.

No one ever said a job has to be exciting or fun.

[–]Borsaid 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

According to OP he's literally doing nothing. Security guards might appear to do nothing, but they are being paid to uhh.. keep things secure. OP? Getting paid to do fuck all.

[–]iMarmalade 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

My understanding is that you can't simply tell someone to sit in a corner and stare at the wall all day

Why not?

[–]bearjuani 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

it's pretty reasonable to think that when you take a job you'll gain experience from it. Future employers might never find out, but OP isn't picking up the skills that he would've expected when he took the position.

[–]DrDerpberg -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The exact legal consequences differ between different countries, but generally a constructive dismissal leads to the employee's obligations ending and the employee acquiring the right to make claims against the employer.

OP's situation doesn't quite sound like the textbook definition of it, but somewhere in the ballpark.

[–]Toyland_in_Babes -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Might want to talk to a lawyer and see if your non compete is enforceable.

[–]NedrySector1104 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Paid*