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Bitcoin has finally become essential (self.Bitcoin)

earonesty が 投稿

In the bitcoin space: I've invested in, coded for, promoted, started up and shut down businesses. I've used, day traded, and lost to exchange operator shutdowns. I've bought and sold for cash, in person for way too much $USD.

But for the first time, ever, just in the last month, bitcoin has become essential. It's no longer a game or an idea. For hundreds of thousands of people, bitcoin has become the only way they can do legitimate business.

I can't actually say why (of course, that's how Bitcoin things are these days). But it's really cool, and it has definitely changed a small but important part of my life for the better.

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[–]gubatron 30ポイント31ポイント  (0子コメント)

But for the first time, ever, just in the last month, bitcoin has become essential. It's no longer a game or an idea. For hundreds of thousands of people, bitcoin has become the only way they can do legitimate business.

Dear OP, please expand, very vague, you don't say exactly why it became the only way for some people to do legitimate business, could you give us examples of the hundreds of thousands of people you mention using Bitcoin to do business today?

In my experience, writers that work with us in latin american countries have found it essential for 2 years now as it's the only way I have to pay them and they can redeem the fiat equivalent in their local exchanges. I'm not sure if there's hundred's of thousands of them yet.

Cheers from DiarioBitcoin.com

[–]sir_lanka 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are wrong. I can't actually say why (of course, that's how Bitcoin things are these days).

[–]Coinizy 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Cannot agree more with this. Do you know how people from Vietnam, Morocco or Venezuela used to shop online or accept payments from international customers before Bitcoin existed?

They weren't able to. International payment methods such as bank wires or credit cards (Amex/VISA/Mastercard) were only available for the top 0.1% of the population in these countries.

So no Amazon shopping and all the perks that come along (Free shipping, Fair pricing) for them, who were coerced into using the local monopolistic retailers owned by their governments.

Bitcoin is enabling all these people to join the global e-commerce village for the first time since Internet appeared, and we're very proud at Coinizy to take part in this revolution by enabling these bitcoin-owning populations to shop anywhere using our instantly issued virtual VISA debit cards : )

[–]mistaik -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Do you know how people from Vietnam

If you want to exchange your bag of Vietnamese dongs for BTC, you need a bank account. Even for Localbitcoin :(

[–]oscar-t 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

even for cash?

[–]Coinizy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're correct. But you know, even in Western countries, buying Bitcoin using fiat currency is a real pain...

[–]bitusher 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, There are indeed many people in the Black and grey markets that are absolutely dependent on Bitcoin for survival . Bitcoin is the only currency that has real utility outside of speculation.

[–]Becky_rwredditor for 23 days 3ポイント4ポイント  (19子コメント)

We don't see it in the US/EU so much because our current infrastructure with banking and debit cards and such are really very efficient and slick. I do carry some cash, but rarely use it; even to buy a 50cent orange, its easier to slide the card through the reader than to fish out a buck.

However, try to get the same efficiency internationally and things get a little expensive; try to do it internationally with a small retailer in Changmai that can't even take visa/mc; has no web site or aggregator... well, forget it. Till bitcoin. I very much can send him 400 baht worth of bitcoin and end up with a book in my mailbox in a couple weeks, without paying $40 to a bank. Compared to the last time I did a similar trick with a bank card? Identify theft out the wazoo (I reconcile daily, so no harm, but dang, that was annoying!)

So yeah, hundreds of thousands would not surprise me at all at this point; anyone with a droid mobile can do this trick, with extremely low overhead cost, and reasonable security for both buyer and seller.

[–]mistaik 0ポイント1ポイント  (17子コメント)

try to do it internationally with a small retailer in Changmai that can't even take visa/mc

Small Changmai retailers who don't take Visa/MC but do accept BTC?

So yeah, hundreds of thousands would not surprise me at all at this point.

As long as they never use BTC. Imagine hundreds of thousands of retailers trying to do business on a network that tops out at ~2.7 transactions per second, sustained? Imposibru!

[–]Becky_rwredditor for 23 days 0ポイント1ポイント  (16子コメント)

I'm trying to present an example with a reasonable level of obfuscation of specifics. And did you not read further and see what happened the last time I used Visa for that?

[–]mistaik -1ポイント0ポイント  (15子コメント)

I'm trying to present an example with a reasonable level of obfuscation of specifics.

Reasonable obfuscation of specifics? You broke logic and common sense, is what you did. Not all hypotheticals are equally sound starting points; of course it would make sense to wear wide-brimmed hats if pigs flew -- sucks having to get pigshit out of hair. Pigs don't fly; no need for that [otherwise reasonable] precaution.

So using Bitcoin might be easy, but only if small Changmai retailers accepted BTC, which they do not. Further, buying a 50 cent orange with Bitcoin would cost you 58 cents today, because tx fee.

[–]Becky_rwredditor for 23 days 0ポイント1ポイント  (14子コメント)

So you'd recommend reading a 16 number visa card number over voice to a 15 year old Thai kid at the register, thousands of miles away, that you've never met, and giving him the CVN on the back of the card?

How is that broken logic to want to avoid doing that?

Apparently attempting to present a good use for bitcoin, eg, buying a book, in a non-chain book store, on the other side of the planet, in a country built ground up on corruption, in a way that you can't get ripped off (for more than the book's price of course), is bad form around here.

[–]mistaik 0ポイント1ポイント  (13子コメント)

15 year old Thai kid at the register, thousands of miles away ... How is that broken logic to want to avoid doing that?

Those are the small Changmai retailers you're talking about? Not brick and mortar meatspace small Changmai retailers?

And these small Changmai retailer do take credit cards? But you gotta read the numbers over the phone, they don't have a website?

ProTip: Find a place that's not hundreds of miles away, like any other adult faced with your conundrum would do. Because 99% chance that small Changmai retailer is not a small Changmai retailer, but a 15-yr.-old kid scamming you. Word.

Apparently attempting to present a good use for bitcoin, eg, buying a book

The 15-yr-old hundreds of miles away from you, the one accepting CCs over the phone, is selling books?! I'll bite, what book?

[–]Becky_rwredditor for 23 days 0ポイント1ポイント  (12子コメント)

Doraemon, translated to Thai. (its a japanese manga a friend loved, but didn't have a set of the tankabon equivalen in thai)

[–]mistaik 0ポイント1ポイント  (11子コメント)

Tell you what: If you sent that 15-yr-old BTC, that's a donation -- you would never see your coin or a book. No charge back; not like CC/PayPal/prepaid DC. That's how it works.

Now, did you want to make a donation to the 15-yr.-old, or did you want the manga "your friend" craved?

Since an average guy needs to buy obscure manga from thailand for his buddies maybe once in his life, if that, can we have a less contrived use case pl0x?

[–]Becky_rwredditor for 23 days 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

Well the manga were sent from the store, and received undamaged. (I've physically been in the store, fwiw) But the cashier with the card number of course helped himself and friends and could have made off with a bunch in fraud were I not watching.

With a bitcoin transaction, again, I could lose the amount of the purchase; but that is the limit of the exposure. Acceptable risk for a legal product that is essentially unavailable in the US. (though availability has improved in recent years for this sort of thing, which is nice).

And fine, "my friend" is my s/o; bought as a gift. Why do these specifics at all matter to the use case of international purchase of modest sized retail goods not typically available at local or US/Amazon style markets?

I don't like Doraemon, I do like plenty of other manga, and wouldn't mind saying it was for me, if it had been.

In the end, you seem to hate the idea that bitcoin could be used to purchase legitimate goods, from merchants outside the US controlled banking system. I personally think its a really cool property of the bitchain concept, and look forward to a US treasury sponsored version of bitDollars or something that transacts as easily with someone in Kyrgystan selling hats, just as if I'd walked into his shop and handed him the appropriate amount of the local currency; without PAYING CHASE or CITIBANK an extra $40 for the hat!!!

[–]mistaik 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

With a bitcoin transaction, again, I could lose the amount of the purchase; but that is the limit of the exposure. ... Acceptable risk for a legal product that is essentially unavailable in the US.

With PayPal or prepaid card, you don't even have that exposure. You're welcome.

But why bother with Bitcoin, when the thieving thai 15-yr.-old doesn't accept it? How would Bitcoin help you to get that manga your friend craves so badly?

In the end, you seem to hate the idea that bitcoin

No. I hate the idea of contrived use cases. They sound shilly, desperate, the sort of shit OneCoin should do, but not Bitcoin. There is no need to pimp Bitcoin, it's not something to force down people's throats.

[–]haroldkumar89 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I use Bitcoin to do international remittance.. it's super fast.

[–]flunkinaj 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you don't mind me asking between what corridors, ~rough volume, and why do you have to send the remittance? How much are you saving bc of it? Always looking for concrete examples to jot down. Thanks!

[–]haroldkumar89 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Coupe of thousand a month. I am a immigrant so yeah. Need to send to couple of countries becoz of family over there.

It takes like1 hour now becoz of the confirmation delays in Bitcoin, used to be mins a while back. I use gdax here 0.15% commission, and 0.8% in the local exchange in the other country. It's less than 1% commission in total.

Traditional remittance takes like 2% and 2 days.

[–]king__julienredditor for 3 months 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

For some people Bitcoin has been essential since Feb 2011

[–]jesuslovebtcredditor for 1 month 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

No, for hundreds of thousands of people, it has been essential for some time now. So in the last month, it has become essential for you and in the next month, it will become essential for some other people, while others will no longer find it essential.

[–]earonesty[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This was a specific case of a vendor who I know has hundreds of thousands of users that basically have no real alternative in certain countries.

[–]4n4n4 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

In your country, what goods and services have the government declared that you can only buy with Bitcoin?

[–]earonesty[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, I don't really want to call attention to it, but yeah, that's the issue.

[–]kryptomancerredditor for 2 months 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We did it guys!

[–]MrWhoopassredditor for 15 days 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

For hundreds of thousands of people, bitcoin has become the only way they can do legitimate busines

*For hundreds of people.

[–]4n4n4 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think the number depends on what businesses you want to consider "legitimate".

[–]earonesty[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, it's grey market business. I consider that legit, especially since it involves some very personal decisions that, in my opinion, governments have no right to regulate.

[–]earonesty[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, really, it was a big win. It's a massive community and I personally know several families who asked me which wallets to install, etc. I recommended Airbitz.

[–]mistaik -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

For hundreds of thousands of people, bitcoin has become the only way they can do legitimate business.

Hundreds of thousands of alpacka socks dealers. Who knew?