全 17 件のコメント

[–]GourangaPlusPlusPartial to Martial 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

He didn't see him as an 8 or 6 in his system. Van Gaal was talking about a creative player in the final third which he does not see as a job for the midfield

[–]Launch_a_poo 9ポイント10ポイント  (11子コメント)

He wasn't that good for us, I think it was the right decision.

EDIT: I say this as the proud owner of a Kagawa 26 shirt

[–]BarbadosDMLord Scholes 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Agree with you. This sub often has people saying 'oh I miss Kagawa so much!!!' yet I sit here thinking, but he wasn't very good for us at all. Gets annoying when people become obsessed with players before they actually achieve anything at this club

[–]ManUToasterDiego Forlan 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think people, me included, were just big fans of Kagawa after seeing what he had done at BVB. When he arrived at United he was also, by far, the sexiest signing we had secured in a while; an attacking player with great dribbling, amazing vision, pretty good finishing, etc. This all at a time when Silva and Hazard and Oscar and Mata (Chelsea was hoarding CAMs) were running shit. We finally had gotten ourselves, by all accounts, one of the best CAMs in Europe... So it was really exciting.

The problem with Kagawa is that he was the player Fergie got to replace Rooney (allegedly). Shinji was supposed to sit behind RvP and run the show... But then three big things happened. The first one, and the most debatable one, is that maybe United might have been too big for him, he said we offered him the #7 shirt and he turned it down because 26 meant more to him or whatever, which is totally understandable, but idk for some reason that always made me think this was a guy who didn't want to be on the spotlight... After all he doesn't wear number 26 for Japan, it seemed that on this bigger stage the legendary number 7 was too much? Maybe I just read too much into it.

The other two, less debatable, problems for Shinji was that, IMO, he struggled with the physicality of the league which was odd, I remember watching him get pushed off the ball sometimes and thinking covering the ball and getting a foul used to be his bread and butter, now he just looks like a second or two too slow every time. He also had some brilliant moments tho, let's not forget, just not as regularly as you would need to at a club like United, and I know ppl say this is due to his "lack of opportunity" but that's a stupid excuse we need to stop using for every player we like. If you are killing it during training you'll get time on the pitch, Shinji was obviously not that impressive in training, period. I remember a video of a training session during a summer tour in Asia where they let ppl in and remember Shinji missing a couple of sitters... I was like oh whatever this doesn't mean shit, I wanted him to do well so badly, but who knows maybe that was a recurring thing.

The other issue was that Fergie left. No new manager is gonna have more hierarchy than Rooney, that's a fact. The moment Fergie retired we got "stuck" with the Rooney paradox. Yes he's an important player to the club, but every new manager has pledge such an outstanding level of allegiance to him that he's become literally undropable... I'm not a huge Rooney fan, duh, but bring as objective as possible I think we have an issue with him... It's gonna take a ballsy manager to start weaning him off the starting 11. Hearing LvG talking about how we "need to find him another position" like he has to fucking play even when there's better options available, makes me cringe every time... I find it very worrisome. He's like "too big to fail" or something, it's not healthy imo.

[–]wakey87433Mata 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The physicality and pace of the league were the cause for his failure to be a success at United. We complain about Mata but he is a million times better adjusted to both aspects than Kagawa ever showed. His best chance would have been in a Fergie 4-4-2 like lineup as the second striker where the direct wingers going to the byline would have created him space which would have offset his lack of physicality and the quicker pace of the game but he was never suited for the wing where Moyes wanted to play him and in a LVG system where our wide players are inverted he was never going to be ideal

[–]noveKiRvP 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

One reason for this was Robin van Persie. Idea was for Kagawa to be our #10 and Rooney up front but when got RvP, Fergie opted for Rooney as #10 and RvP up top. Rarely did we play a system to fully accommodate Kagawa's play.
Next season: Ferguson gone, we signed Mata and it just got worse for him then on. I loved the guy, he was adapting albeit slowly but he was rarely given the role he should have had. Moyes playing him and Mata together was nightmare-ish.

[–]mufcirclejerk -4ポイント-3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Not that good for us?! He averaged 0.5 goals or assists per game in his first season. (Rooney has 0.45 this season, for comparison.) Under Moyes he dropped in form, as did everyone. Under LVG he didn't make a single appearance.

I'm not saying he was phenomenal for us or anything, but he was clearly a very good player who needed time to settle in. Overall he only made 38 appearances in the toughest league in the world. He deserved more time.

[–]Rolling_TomassiShaw 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your argument is that his numbers are slightly better than Rooney's worst or 2nd worst season ever?

[–]FeezbullGiggs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah but numbers and all! There are numbers and comparisons!!

[–]djokovSolskjær 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rooney was absolute wank before christmas this season. I'm not sure your comparison is all that positive.

[–]BarbadosDMLord Scholes 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nothing wrong with saying he was not that good for us, because he wasn't. Kagawa is a good player but in my opinion even with time, I doubt he would have been a huge success. He has had large patches back at Dortmund of being out of form and patches of being good too. For us he was never awful but also never good, just ok

[–]mufcirclejerk -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

He literally scored or created a goal every other game in his first season with us. That's better than the boy wonder Martial this season. Can you help me understand why you think that's "not that good"?

[–]danskzwag 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did you actually watch him? He was useless on the left and wasnt going to play ahead of rooney it was always going to end one way

[–]fakeplasticairbag 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't particularly rate Kagawa, he really wasn't great for us.

But it is ridiculous that Lingard starts for us most weeks while Kagawa was deemed surplus to requirements.

Same for Young, Herrera, Mata, Memphis. Kagawa was more than capable of improving on their contribution in LVG's time here.

[–]CalimariaeSolskjaer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

While I agree, it's worth noting that when Kagawa was sold Lingard had just set the pre-season on fire and appeared much better than he really is.

[–]mink_manBellion -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

He wasn't a fan of Mata either until he started getting results by putting him on the right.

[–]OrcnickThe 3 R's -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kagawa in the end never did it, and in my view he WAS given his fair shout but he seemed to be half the player people talked about.

Its a little bit the same way I see Schinderlin but hes so far only had one season so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Kagawa just wasn't the player people wanted to think he was. Flashes of brilliance, but average or went missing most of the time.

Hes one player I don't regret leaving.