Occidentalism

[...] UPDATE: Occidentalism has posted a large image of the ad, but it’s still difficult to read.  Couldn’t help but notice this part from Fact 5, however: They were working under a system of licensed prostitution that was commonplace around the world at the time.  Many of the women, in fact, earned incomes far in excess of what were paid to field officers and even generals (as reported by the United States Office of War Information, Psychological Warfare Team Attached to US Army Forces, India-Burma Theater APO 689) and there are many testimonies attesting to the fact that they were well treated. [...]

Is it just me that feels that this is a strategic blunder on the part of whoever put the ad? Nobody cares about comfort women in the U.S.; I don’t see Rep. Honda making the rounds in cable news networks. These facts, true or false, to a casual reader will just look like denials and cover-ups(terrible timing with the whole Abu Ghraib still fresh on most American minds).
Fact 1: We really good in covering our tracks.
Fact 2: It’s not really us who did it. It’s those “independent contractors,” and we gave them a good spanking, honest.
Fact 3: Ok…ok…okay, there were some bad apples, but really, just a couple of them, just the rank and file. Gee, where did we hear this recently?
Fact 4: Your victims are lying. Truth not withstanding, not the best way to present your case.
Fact 5: Everyone else did it at that time, and oh yeah, we paid them really really well, so what if we gave them a little spank now and then, eh?

[...] Reader Infimum tipped us off to a large copy of the full page ad itself, with the names of the signers, here at Occidentalism. It’s still a little difficult to read, but you can probably find ways to magnify it. Of interest is that several members of the primary opposition group, the Democratic Party of Japan, also endorsed it, as well as Yoshiko Sakurai, a prominent journalist who was the main anchor on Kyo no Dekigoto, a national news program that ran at roughly 11:00 p.m. for more than 50 years until September last year. [...]

Sorry it’s in Japanese, but this is how the “comfort women” issue has started.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5TJZLisltU

Matt

Hereis the enlarged version people can read the content.

Is it just me that feels that this is a strategic blunder on the part of whoever put the ad? Nobody cares about comfort women in the U.S.; I don’t see Rep.

kjeff,

It appears this ad by the Japanese lawmakers was a counter action to the ad “The truth about ‘comfort women’” on the Washington Post in April by a Korean group. If nobody cares about comfort women in the U.S., why bother putting an expensive ad to raise the matter in the first place? Do you say the Korean group was stupid to have done that?

hls,
Yes, it’s a counter-action…, but I’m affraid that anyone who’s not deeply interested in the issue will be troubled by it. What Kaneganese wrote above just reminded me of something. A quick glance at the “Assentors,” you’ll see that this is clearly not a united front. Personally, if I were to put up the ad, I would get rid of the “lawmakers” from the assentors list because one might wonder, “Well, how about the rest of them?” And for a rebuttal, that’s crucial in the way of, “Why should we believe you, if even some of you don’t?”

If nobody cares about comfort women in the U.S., why bother putting an expensive ad to raise the matter in the first place?

I haven’t seen the original ad, but with the wars, Pres. Bush’s ‘trouble of the week’ series, and Paris Hilton’s jail-thingy, Americans have enough on their plate. Do you really think anyone beside first generation Korean immigrants(I’m not even going to generalize all Korean-Americans) care?

Do you say the Korean group was stupid to have done that?

I haven’t seen the ad, so I can’t really comment on it, but whatever that ad is, I doubt that it has anything to do with the issue itself. It’s probably just to score some points politically or otherwise. I could say the same way about the counter-ad; I can just imagine how this will translate come election time. Tomomi Inada(just to pick a name) stood up strong for Japanese interest overseas, and things of that nature. But, overall, I think it hurts their cause. If I were them, I would put up an apology ad. Yes…yes…yes, not another apology, but I think in this case, it’ll serve the purpose extremely well. I would do a general admittance of “hardship” without really admitting wrongdoings. The longer you can drag this part, the better; it’d sound more sincere. And to anticipate those who are never going to be satisfied with anything, do a general admittance of general disagreement(even among yourselves, which usually leads to more credence), and that you have people(better yet, committee) who are working to find the truth. I don’t think ‘that’ ad is going against any stand/policy Japanese government has on the issue, and if anyone else is still pressing the case, they will look like a jackass. Most americans don’t even care enough to find the ‘truth’, the facts of their own present wars, do you really they will about someone else’s that happened more than half a century ago?

[...] Ad about comfort women in the Washington Post, Occidentalism; Matt@O has published the entire ad. Interesting. - Ampontan comments on this here. [...]

As for the ad, I think you can read it
(just click, it will enlarge)

As for the facts 6-9, I showed the sources.

This is getting interesting.
The fabrication is turned aver one by one like Othelo.
Japan had better calculate huge amount of liquidated damage of defamation against Korea and China.
Chinese Mafia, the wairepuller of Mike Honda, showed the cloven hoof at good timing.
http://www.sankei.co.jp/kokusai/usa/070603/usa070603004.htm
Following is US army’s official report stating ‘comfort girl’ is just a prostitute.
http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

General Tiger:

Yes it is, although I think things are going the other way than what you believe.

Oh, Yeah? Which “facts” of the above advertisement do you claim fabrications by the Japanese?

Finally, the Japanese has decided to take a stance on the issue. All the lies coming from the Korean government will slowly be exposed and the truth about Koreans pimping their own kind will be known. Hopefully millions of brainwashed Koreans, including quite a few of them in this forum, will wake up and learn the complicity of their fellow Koreans in the issue. This finger-pointing of Koreans at others to hide their own failures and rottenness has got to stop. They do nothing but embarrass themselves in the end.

Then again, anyone who reads the news regularly already knows that single Korean women coming to the US, Australia, and other developed, mostly Western countries already have a reputation for, um, you know. So this revelation of Korean whores during that time period shouldn’t really be a stretch, let alone a shocker. Not much has changed.

Mr Bevers if you want evidence shows the lies of the Japanese governments stance. These Japanese documents describe the ages of the girls. The Japanese Government official stance is as follows….

“..Girls only over the ages of 21 were engaged…”

However we can see the health records showed these girls to be younger……much younger. Around 15 and 16 years old.

http://blog.naver.com/cms1530/
toadface

If you want evidence shows the lies of the Japanese governments stance. These Japanese documents describe the ages of the girls. The Japanese Government official stance is as follows….

“..Girls only over the ages of 21 were engaged…”

However we can see the health records showed these girls to be younger……much younger. Around 15 and 16 years old.

http://blog.naver.com/cms1530/

Japan is trying to do damage control on the comfort women issue issue but they are being busted by their own documents. Sounds like the Dokdo issue.

The Japanese are digging themselves into a huge hole on this one.
Fact 1 states that Japan ordered that only women over 21 be hired as a comfort woman.
Fact 2 states Japanese police regulated
illegal brokers.
These facts are consistent with the fact the women under 21 were working; either they were illegally recruited or they were illegally working, or they were victimized by the illegal owners.

On a side, remember fact 9 I posted?

the broker in Korea
year……..1927…1931…1937…1941
Japanese…162… 269….203……211
Korean…. 2598…2320.. 3097…3744
(page 40 慰安婦と戦場の性　秦郁彦)

.

Just to clarify, the comment addressed to Mr. Gerry was posted at Marmomot Hall by Frogmouth, and I copied and paseted, though I think Frogmouth and Toadface is obviously identical.(Toadface, , correct me if I am wrong)

Toadmouth,
Do Korean people will accuse, say the US because Korean woman were trafficated into the US and working in the brothels illegally though the US is regulating such practice?

[...] Ad about comfort women in the Washington Post · Occidentalism Ad about comfort women in the Washington Post · Occidentalism: Robert from the Marmot’s Hole reported on a group of Japanese lawmakers that took out a full page ad in the Washington Post to present the Japanese viewpoint on the comfort woman controversy, and asked “If you’ve got the advert, I’d be keen to take a look at it”. [...]

Robert from the Marmot’s Hole reported on a group of Japanese lawmakers that took out a full page ad in the Washington Post to present the Japanese viewpoint on the comfort woman controversy.

I would say that they are expressing the viewpoint of the Committee for Historical Facts, but I’m not sure if it’s accurate to say that they are presenting the “Japanese” viewpoint, since one does not hear or read a single, coherent “Japanese viewpoint” being expressed within Japan.

[...] Ad about comfort women in the Washington Post · Occidentalism [...]

Ponta, good point. But…I think it would lend a lot of weight to the statement if it were officially approved by the Diet, since the PM/Chief Cabinet Secretary change.

Over at the Marmot’s Hole, Robert Koehler has posted an excellent piece on precisely why he takes offense at the Washington Post advertisement. Very balanced, pulls no punches—Korea and the US come in for their share of criticism. Mr. Bevers, in particular, ought to be particularly interested in this posting since, in it, Mr. Koehler responds to his challenge to refute the ad’s “facts” one by one. For anyone who’s interested, the posting is here:

http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/06/18/more-on-the-comfort-women-ad/

Ut videam
I read his post as complaing of the ad not telling the whole story. That is true, no space on the newspaper can afford to give the whole story.

Korea and the US come in for their share of criticism

From now on why not criticize the Korean response to the issue?
After all, even ad admit the women suffered and it is with pround regret they contemplate this tragedy”
Keep ignoring thir own wrongs should be more offensive.
As I suggested on the Marmot hole, why not Korean government and people set an example by giving more
apologies and compensatoins than Japan to the comfort women under Korean government?

Do Koreans really care about sex slaves?

6 June 2007
SEOUL - South Korean police said on Wednesday they have arrested three people for holding a 14-year-old girl in a motel for six months and forcing her to serve hundreds of clients as a prostitute.

The three including a 20-year-old woman were arrested Monday on charges of kidnapping and extorting money from a minor, police said.

They lured the teenager to a motel in the southern city of Gwangju last November and held her there until her escape on May 22.

“She was forced to serve as a prostitute for six months in the motel,” said a police officer in the southern city of Jeonju north of Gwangju, where the girl is staying with her uncle.

Police gave no details, but the JoongAng Daily said the trio earned about 120 million won (129,032 dollars) by forcing the girl to engage in sex up to five times a night for six months.

The girl told investigators she was often beaten with iron pipes and fists.

“Men saw my bruises and wounds but they did not care. I told them that I was a prisoner but they just turned away. They were afraid because they were engaged in the sex trade,” she was quoted as saying.

Police are investigating about 800 men who had sex with the victim. About 40 have already been questioned and face charges for having sex with a minor, the newspaper said.

The trio reportedly found clients through the Internet, a major vehicle for teenage prostitution in South Korea.

800 Korean men and not one lifted a finger to help the girl even after seeing her bruises and wounds.

See South Korean girl, 14, held as sex slave for 6-months

http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/archive/news/2002/06/20020620p2g00m0dm998000c.html
Japan chained to underground sex slave industry

With the United States government having labeled Japan as a final destination for many sex slave victims, international society has come to view the Land of the Rising Sun as immoral, according to Shukan Jitsuwa (7/4). Foreign Ministry officials say they have expressed dissent toward the report that labels Japan as “having insufficient countermeasures to sex slavery, but is trying.” They say the issue is a matter for the National Police Agency and Justice Ministry to handle.
NPA officials say they’ll let the public know when they discover any instances of sex slavery, while the Justice Ministry claims no record exists of slaves entering Japan.
Others are certain, though, that Japan has become a haven for forced sex slaves.
“A few years ago, quite a deal of attention was being paid to girls around 20 coming here from Eastern Europe, particularly Rumania and Ukraine. You could buy one of those girls for about 1 million yen,” a source tells Shukan Jitsuwa.
Sex slavery, according to the raunchy rag, involves a buyer, an intermediary and a seller. Most of the time, it’s the middleman who picks up the biggest share of the profits to be made in the sale of human flesh.
“They target countries where prices are cheap. The intermediary will go to the parents of any girl they’re looking for and offer them a cash loan several times what they’d usually make in a year in exchange for their daughter. The daughter wouldn’t be returned until the loan has been paid off. To do that, the girl is brought to Japan,” the source says. “Once here, she’ll be made to work in an underground sex shop or whatever, and can’t return home until her buyer can no longer make any money out of her. Intermediaries make the most money because they profit on price differentiation between countries.”
Girls from poorer areas of Thailand and Burma apparently find themselves sold into slavery and transported to Taiwan and Japan.
“Brokers send at least 1,000 Thai girls a year to Japan,” a member of a Thai human rights organization tells Shukan Jitsuwa.
Japanese kiddy sex tours to Thailand and the Philippines are well known, but less publicized are the girls from these countries who end up as prostitutes in Japan. Just before the start of the World Cup, authorities began cracking down on foreign sex workers across the country, many of whom were effectively sex slaves.
“Osaka’s Umeda district was famous for its Thai streetwalkers, but, as many expected, they were all busted by the end of February this year,” a sex industry writer tells Shukan Jitsuwa. Police said they picked up 67 women in the raids for breaking either the anti-prostitution or immigration laws. Of the 67 arrested, 26 were deported. Some of those arrested were as young as 15.
“Most of these women sneaked into Japan,” the sex industry writer says. “They’ve got to pay a broker 5 million yen to get here, which includes the price of a fake passport. They first go into prostitution so they can pay off their loan. Once they’ve done that, they stay in the job so they can send money back to their parents.”
With the money borrowed to leave their homelands and surreptitious entry into the country, Japan has been turned into a Mecca for prostitutes.
“Even if a woman’s deported, she’s got no choice but to return to Japan if she wants to repay her debts,” a source tells Shukan Jitsuwa. “She still has to pay the 5 million yen fee to be smuggled in here. But if Customs refuse her entry, she’s basically got no choice but to work for free in some other country.”

Because that’s NOT THE ISSUE HERE

Why NOT? Practice what you preach. It’s universal considering the fact that Koreans did this to their own people after WWII.

[...] Ad about comfort women in the Washington Post · Occidentalism [...]

Quite likely?? That’s a leap of faith. What Mr. Koehler is seeking in legal definition, is probatio diabolica. In other words, since IJA can’t prove that the evidence DOES NOT exist, it MUST EXIST.

Point taken. But the revisionists should not profit from the bad act of their “client,” i.e., the orgy of incineration. That’s tantamount to having the star witness in a murder case killed, then trumpeting the fact that there are no witnesses. Dead men tell no tales, and neither do burned documents.So, while the revisionists can crow that “No historical document has ever been found… that women were forced against their will into prostitution by the Japanese army,” the other side can just as validly state “We will probably never know whether documentation existed to support or refute claims of coercion, as the Japanese government and army engaged in an orgy of incineration of potentially incriminating documents prior to the arrival of occupation forces.” When it’s well-established fact that documents were destroyed on a grand scale, it’s the worst sort of sophistry to argue innocence based on the lack of documentary evidence.

Addendum to #49 - In a criminal trial, if it can be proven that a witness was silenced by the defendant, rules of criminal procedure allow that fact to be introduced against the defendant. The defendant is not allowed to profit from a bad act. Nothing can be legally be inferred from the witness’s silence, but the fact that he was silenced is fair game. So, too, in this case. While nothing can be inferred from the lack of documents, the fact of the orgy of incineration is damning testimony against the IJA.

Ut videam
Thanks
There is no document that the official ordered to recruit women forcibly.
There is document that the official ordered to regulate the illegal brokers.
As I understand it, one of the Robert points is since Korean government has been like that, but still there have been illegal brokers rampant in Korea despite the regulation, Japan also must have been like that.
It might or it might not,
But note coercion did take place. there is a record that Japanese police arrested such brokers.

the Japanese government and army engaged in an orgy of incineration of potentially incriminating documents prior to the arrival of occupation forces.” When it’s well-established fact that documents were destroyed on a grand scale

It is true that Japanese troop burned some of military document which might works against Japanese military. But even in case of the secret operation of 731 troop where it is said the documents were destroyed systematically, there are still Japanese documents about it which is not in favor of Japanese position.
And military document is not all the document. There are newspaper and magazine. A newspaper talks about.e.g., the police operation against the illegal brokers The magazine talks about the prostitutes who entered the business out of poverty.

As I said, in case of comfort station, there is no need to destroy the document. People took it for granted that the lives were like that. It was after the sensational political movement in the late 80’s people came to realise that that was a big issue.
For instance,
thisis the film depicting the comfort women produced in 1959, after the was but long before any issue concerning the comfort station came out.
And the following is the report written in 1953

….Across the street were sitting 4 or 5 comfort women. At first they lured us persistently to stay up , saying “the money does not matter, just stay up, we are lonely.”
They didn’t know that the military headquarters were pulling out the next day, but it seemed to be certain that they sensed something unusual was going on; there was no customer. And here we were, two military officers turned up at night. They said they didn’t care about the money because they felt lonely. It might have been rather me who felt more lonely.

The next to the comfort station stood the branches of Japanese movies company and Japanese movies distribution company. There were a lot of films in the distributive company, so the head of information service had ordered the chief of branch to get rid of them so that British troop might not abuse them; We were there at night to confirm the job was done. The films were thrown into a waterlogged trench, the two branches were tidied up—the job had been well done. And it was on the way home we had this conversation with the women as a reward.” For free, enjoy till the morning”—-The Korea woman almost twenty years old went so far as to say that.
She was in a slip, with thighs showing, slapping a mosquito sometimes.

Why didn’t I tell them to get out of Rangoon because the situation was threatening? I asked the question to myself, looking up at the moon—until that time I had been a military officer and I had been too afraid of military regulation— from this time on I would be be finally a decent man again .link(Japanese)

Note he was ordered to destroy the film but he has no hesitation to talk about the comfort women.

And you don’t need to destroy the documents that you don’t think works against your position. At the time people took it for granted that comfort station was a part of lives and didn’t even think the document about it would work against them.
And even among testimonies examined by the scholars, as I pointed elsewhere, out of 20 testimonies, 4 cases were cases
where the women were said to be recruited forcibly by Japanese officials.
One women said she was sold by her father on a different occasion.
Another woman was the the women who sued Japanese government to return the enormous amount of money she earned while she was a comfort woman.
Still others were women who said they worked in a comfort stations where there were no military brothels.
Of course, that does not mean they were well treated. That is as bad as saying Korean women in the brothels now are well treated.
As I said, it is easily imaginable that there were cases where the woman suffered indescribable hardship. And it happen under Japanese rule, thus, PMs apologized. For instance, Koizumi said,

As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women

Let me point out that the so-called “comfort woman issue” between Japan and Korea has already ended in 1965, by the following treaty.

“The agreement between Japan and Republic of Korea in the resolution of the problem regarding assets and right of claim, and in the economic assistance”(June 22, 1965)
*I translated this title from the official text written in Japanese named “財産及び請求権に関する問題の解決並びに経済協力に関する日本国と大韓民国との間の協定”. ( http://www.ioc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~worldjpn/documents/texts/JPKR/19650622.T9J.html)

This agreement(was written in Japanese and Korean) stipulated that:

1)Japan shall provide Japanese products and shall render the service by Japanese people which equal to three hundred million dollar, for 10 years from the date that this agreement will come into force, without compensation.

2)the problem was settled completely and finally, regarding the assets of both countries and nationals(including corporations), right and profit, and of the right of claim between both countries(Japan and Korea) .